Other Lower Tier Threats (ORAS Edition)

[firehusky]

Well I guess it is outclassed as an offensive mon, but it can beat most defoggers 1v1 allowing web to stay up longer, and shuckle is wrecked by taunt. I guess you're right now that sableye is much more common, but it's up to Recreant if she wants to add it.

 

[Karxrida]

Well I guess it is outclassed as an offensive mon, but it can beat most defoggers 1v1 allowing web to stay up longer, and shuckle is wrecked by taunt. I guess you're right now that sableye is much more common, but it's up to Recreant if she wants to add it.

It's shoehorned into being a lead, so beating Defoggers doesn't mean much when beating other leads and Magic Bouncers is more important. Besides, you lose to the Latis of your Sash is broken.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

I completely agree with Karxrida about Galvantula not being on the list. Aside from already being worse at setting up Webs than Shuckle, it doesn't really matter because Sticky Web is already an inconsistent and unreliable move to begin with, and is usually not worth it unless you build your team around it. It is not worth dedicating such a garbage mon to something that is not always going to be significant in every game. It doesn't matter that Galvantula has offensive presence over Shuckle, because Galvantula is already severely weakened once it sets up Webs and it can only really do so once per game. Shuckle can run Mental Herb to avoid Taunt and also provides Stealth Rock, which is a must on all teams, thereby saving you a teamslot, while it also has Encore to potentially make it easier for something like Mega Gardevoir to get in and wreck. Galvantula cannot do such stuff. Basically, aside from Galvantula being a garbage mon on its own, it suffers from its only use being able to set up one inconsistent hazard and otherwise general inability to really support its team in any other way, unlike Shuckle or even Smeargle. Maybe if Galv was actually a genuinely good Pokemon, then maybe it might be worth using, but as of now, no, I don't think Galvantula deserves to be added as a lower tier threat, it's not effective in the current metagame.

 

[ArchPhantom]

I have a few questions regarding those EVs on Hydreigon. What does 132 in Spe outspeed and lose out on? And what does 144 ATK KO that is important to have 144 Attack EVs? Just a few questions.

The 132 speed gives Hydreigon 265 speed, allowing it to outspeed fully invested +spe base 70's and w/e is below that (Bisharp, Breloom, TTar, etc) as well as outspeed standard stallbreaker Mew, bulky or Adamant Mega Altaria before it DD's, and Adamant Dragonite, I believe. It loses out on mixed KB, Jolly Heracross (mega and normal), and anything faster than 265 speed (obv, lol).

As for the 144 Attack Evs, they are for the 2HKO (or a high chance to 2HKO) on physically defensive Clefable and to do minimum 66% damage to SDef Tran. (A combination of Dark Pulse + Superpower can defeat Tran thinking they are a good switch).

Calcs

144 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 198-234 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- 79.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

144 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Superpower vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 255-302 (66.2 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[firehusky]

It's shoehorned into being a lead, so beating Defoggers doesn't mean much when beating other leads and Magic Bouncers is more important. Besides, you lose to the Latis of your Sash is broken.

Good point, and also it's speed tier got a little bit worse. Yeah I'll get rid of it.

 

[heritage]

Hey guys, I just wanted to apologize for not updating the OP as of recently. I've been super duper busy with the holidays, and I don't think I'll be extremely active until after New Year's. I promise I'll be back on after then, but until then, I will most likely be on a mobile device until then. Merry holidays to you all u-u

 

[Karxrida]

ScraftyIsTheBest I think you should include the Scarf Set for Hydreigon, as it's a decent Scarfer (albeit heavily reliant on prediction) and maybe the spread used in the official analysis for the Wallbreaker set. http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/hydreigon-qc-2-3-written.3524281/

Also, can we please remove Umbreon? It's been denied a spot on the Viability Ranking thread several times (even very recently, like last week or something) for being extremely passive, outclassed as a cleric, and it can't even wall the things that it's supposed to when all the relevant Ghost, Dark, and Psychic mons beat it 1v1 or use it as a free switch-in. Mono-Dark is also a really bad defensive typing that leaves it with common weaknesses to Fairy and Fighting, plus it does shit against other defensive teams and is set-up bait for Mega Sableye.

EDIT: Also add Flygon to whatever blacklist gets written up, as Haunter just closed a thread for it saying it was unviable. I personally would also remove Azelf and Shuckle since they are shut down completely by the new Magic Bounce users (plus Azelf is fucked by anti-leading Mega Lopunny), but they are still on the Viability list so idk.

 

[hobreezy]

Okay I'm not exactly sure how lower tier this is but

Victini @ Life Orb
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blue Flare
- Thunder
- Focus Blast
- Glaciate

Role: Special Walbreaker, Pivot
Okay while many are familiar with choice band Victini, I'd like to introduce the power of special Victini. Blue Flare functions as the primary spamming fire move that can take a chunk out of most switch ins. Also, Victini has some excellent coverage moves that many opponents won't be prepared for. With Victory Star, the accuracy of all of these moves in increased from frustrating inaccurate to acceptable. Thunder hits water types, focus blast hits rocks and heatran, glaciate hits dragons ect... One notable thing about Glaciate is the speed drop which can be helpful taking out fast mons on the switch. While this shouldn't be relied on, often, opponents will expect victini to be a physical attacker and switch into physical wall such as lando-T or slowbro. This is great because event the more cautious blue flare can OHKO lando-T and put a dent in slowbro that can then be finished off with a thunder.
The next important role victini can play is as a pivot. Victini Can thrive off coming in on threats such as Mega Gaurdevoir, Sylveon, Clefairy, or other fairy types and then proceed to fire off a blue flare. In all, Victini is an excellent fairy absorber. One other thing Victini can do is it is a shaky switch in to Mew or Sablye.

Replays (will add more later):
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-197585423

 

[firehusky]

The OP says that you can only list <BL pokemon that are on the viability rankings, and I'm pretty sure victini is BL.

 

[hobreezy]

oops i thought it was ou. well its a cool poke anyway

 

[Karxrida]

Victini's totally legit, but I don't think pure Special is that good. Physical and Mixed Lure are so much better thanks to V-Create and Bolt Strike being stronger, more accurate, being unaffected by weather for Bolt Strike (important for hitting Zard Y and T-Tar coming in to eat V-Create), and just being harder to switch into in general. There's also SubPuP to break stall, Scarf, etc. that I think would be better mentions.

 

[Timid_Metagross]

Movesets

Physical Scarf
Haxorus @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 36 SpD / 220 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage/Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab
- Rock Slide/Brick Break/Superpower

Setup Sweeper
Haxorus @ Life Orb/Lum Berry
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance/Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab
- Outrage/Dragon Claw

Powerful Band
Haxorus @ Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage/Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab
- Superpower/Brick Break/Rock Slide

Ok, here we go. Haxorus isn't that bad of a pokemon in ou since of it's incredibly high attack, and scarfed variants can outspeed a lot of things. Haxorus is mainly a garchomp with more fire power and a little less speed. Haxorus also has a very good movepool to work with and can also be a very good late game cleaner. There are also setup variants of of Haxorus that take advantage of moves like dragon dance and swords dance. This pokemon has access to a lot of moves and can put a dent in a lot of walls in the meta such as heatran, clefable, and tyranitar. Haxorus may have trouble with pokemon like ferrothorn and slowbro, but this pokemon still has a lot of potential and a ridiculously high attack stat. If haxorus got the elemental punches, it could be able to take out walls like ferrothorn easily. Even though this pokemon has it's own checks and counters, it can do really well when those pokemon are gone and can leave a serious dent in your opponents team.

 

[Karxrida]

Movesets

Physical Scarf
Haxorus @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 36 SpD / 220 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage/Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab
- Rock Slide/Brick Break/Superpower

Setup Sweeper
Haxorus @ Life Orb/Lum Berry
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance/Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab
- Outrage/Dragon Claw

Powerful Band
Haxorus @ Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage/Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab
- Superpower/Brick Break/Rock Slide

Ok, here we go. Haxorus isn't that bad of a pokemon in ou since of it's incredibly high attack, and scarfed variants can outspeed a lot of things. Haxorus is mainly a garchomp with more fire power and a little less speed. Haxorus also has a very good movepool to work with and can also be a very good late game cleaner. There are also setup variants of of Haxorus that take advantage of moves like dragon dance and swords dance. This pokemon has access to a lot of moves and can put a dent in a lot of walls in the meta such as heatran, clefable, and tyranitar. Haxorus may have trouble with pokemon like ferrothorn and slowbro, but this pokemon still has a lot of potential and a ridiculously high attack stat. If haxorus got the elemental punches, it could be able to take out walls like ferrothorn easily. Even though this pokemon has it's own checks and counters, it can do really well when those pokemon are gone and can leave a serious dent in your opponents team.

Band and Scarf are done better by Kyurem-B, who's only like 2 points slower but hits so much harder, is significantly bulker, and can go mixed. DD is the only set worth mentioning.

 

[heritage]

Band and Scarf are done better by Kyurem-B, who's only like 2 points slower but hits so much harder, is significantly bulker, and can go mixed. DD is the only set worth mentioning.

Don't forget about Taunt that goes through Magic Bounce, completely screwing over Sableye.

 

[Timid_Metagross]

Band and Scarf are done better by Kyurem-B, who's only like 2 points slower but hits so much harder, is significantly bulker, and can go mixed. DD is the only set worth mentioning.

But Kyurem-B doesn't have access to earthquake, poison jab, rock slide, or superpower. You would do better just making Kyurem-B a mixed or special set.

 

[boltsandbombers]

But Kyurem-B doesn't have access to earthquake, poison jab, rock slide, or superpower. You would do better just making Kyurem-B a mixed or special set.

I'm sorry, no. Kyurem-B has access to earth power, iron head, and stab ice beam, which hits all the relevant targets that EQ / poison jab / rock slide / superpower hit. Kyurem can feasibly run HP Fire to hit scizor and ferrothorn. Agreeing that DD (or maybe sd, idk tho) is the only relevant set. Haxorus faces a ton of competition from other dragons, it's really just not as good as it used to be.

 

[Timid_Metagross]

I'm sorry, no. Kyurem-B has access to earth power, iron head, and stab ice beam, which hits all the relevant targets that EQ / poison jab / rock slide / superpower hit. Kyurem can feasibly run HP Fire to hit scizor and ferrothorn. Agreeing that DD (or maybe sd, idk tho) is the only relevant set. Haxorus faces a ton of competition from other dragons, it's really just not as good as it used to be.

I know, thats why I said it was a lower tier threat. Some of it's sets can still be used in ou. I completely agree that it isn't as good as it was, but I think it still has some potential in the ORAS meta.

 

[Roylund]

I know, thats why I said it was a lower tier threat. Some of it's sets can still be used in ou. I completely agree that it isn't as good as it was, but I think it still has some potential in the ORAS meta.

You should really highlight Mold Breaker Taunt. DD/Taunt/Dragon Claw or Outrage/Coverage lets you set up on Mega Sableye bar Foul Play variants but no one runs that because people like having fun while playing (except stall players.

Edit: This is obviously outdone by Mega Gyarados but Haxorus isn't a mega, which is cool.

 

[MegaMogwai]

Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch
- Ice Punch / Swords Dance

Role: Physical Attacker

Toxicroak has come a long way since 5th gen (I know it's origin is 4th gen lol). All the way from a Bulky Rain Sweeper to now. His usage dropped down considerably with the release of XY. The initial 6th gen was not kind to the frog due to the nerf of rain and the presence of mons such as Aegislash and Mega Mawile. With the release of ORAS, and the shift the OU metagame has taken, things have changed. A lot. Toxicroak is a very unique mon. His dual STAB coverage is amazing due to the fact that it hits both fairies and steel types super effectively. Access to sucker punch is huge as well. I could really over extend this post but i'll try to go straight to the point.

Toxicroak fits really well in ORAS OU. He beats Keldeo, Bisharp and Clefable 1 v 1. His sucker punch knocks out Latios after SR damage, and basically very few things want to switch into a LO adamant STAB Gunk Shot. Gunk Shot hits suprisingly hard, scoring the OHKO on many mons that think they can switch in on Croak, and with his outstanding coverage, switching into this frog is quite the difficult task. He does have big flaws, mainly his frailty, he also is not that fast at all, but hes not slow either. He outspeeds and one shots Mega Altaria (he also OHKOs stupid clef), and he has access to ice punch for the oh so prevalent Landorus-T who thinks he can safely switch in on this thing. Overall Toxicroak is a very efficient physical attacker which checks many of the top tier OU threats and is very good against balance, while also being able to pick off weakened faster threats with priority. Toxicroak has a lot of small niches as well such as: being a fail safe for BD Azumarill, matching up extremely well against opposing rain teams, etc. I would personally recommend ice punch over SD due to how common Lando-T is and the fact that you can take it out on the switch in with that extra coverage is very important.

Overall we got ourselves a fairy/steel killer that matches up really well against some of the most popular mons in ORAS OU. I've used this amphibian in my team to obtain my reqs in the suspect ladder and the amount of games he's enabled me to win is impressive.

EDIT: Here are some replays to showcase it off a bit in action (and of course you're more than welcome to check him out in my channel as well :P)

VS Sand Offense:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-198009304

VS Rain (gunk shot does 43% to a Swampert):
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-198004823

Cosmic Power Clef? Nah son:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-197448927

Clutch Frog (2 shots defensive Mandibuzz with Gunk shot after SR):
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-197432118

 

[SparksBlade]

i remember using it in ubers ladder for a while to slay some whales.
Coming to OU, it feels a bit slow, but makes a good offensive core with MGarde, both beating each other's checks. Fake Out+Sucker Punch kind of make up for the slow speed. Overall i feel Toxicroak just missed out being incredibly awesome, but it's still good nonetheless.

 

[Kadabrium]

Is it better to run poison touch since chary is much more common than rain

 

[boltsandbombers]

Is it better to run poison touch since chary is much more common than rain

Nope, Dry Skin is the best ability in all scenarios to be able to switch into water type attacks from Pokemon such as Keldeo and Azumarill.

 

[eden]

Man I remember that match...what a lord that Toxicroak was!
VS Rain (gunk shot does 43% to a Swampert):
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-198004823

I ragequitted,lol.

 

[Kurona]

Is it better to run poison touch since chary is much more common than rain

Dry Skin is really the one thing that makes Toxicroak viable in the first place. It's other attributes are nice, but without Dry Skin nothing about them really stands out as a great niche that isn't meh or outclassed. Dry Skin allows Toxicroak to completely beat rain teams, scalders, suicune etc.

 

[ThePack]

I think I'll do a set on Dugtrio unless you guys think he's too crappy for OU.

Please read the OP before posting, as Sketchup has already done Dugtrio sets (unless you have another set which you would like to contribute).