Heart Gold | Soul Silver In-Game Tier List

[PK Gaming]

Obviously you would only use flash against the trouble fights such as whitney and chucks miltank and poliwrath respectively, however how is that disgraceful? You dont have to do it however seeing as it completely imobilises them i dont see any reason why you wouldnt.

So a moveset of Flash, Magical Leaf, Light Screen (which you don't get until a higher level) reflect and synthesis?

Talk about hard walled in Johto. This is a terrible moveset.

Also singlehandedly stopping whitney with reflect and magical leaf and potentially synthesis isnt decent its awesome. Being able to prevent primeape from using his double team strategy with magical leaf while still having the bulk to take a focus punch if need be isnt decent either. Especially when it can use flash on his poliwrath to stop it from using hypnosis. Also even though dragon resists grass meganium still really helps with the many seadras in the gym aswell as having lightscreen to halve clairs kingdas damage and flash to make hydro pump useless. It also has the high powered petaldance that can 3 hko kingdra.

In each of these cases Bayleaf/Meganium isnt decent but extroadinary against the 3 gyms that are commonly thought of as the hardest in johto.

Whitney isnt THAT hard to defeat. Besides, I hardly think you can do well with such a terrible moveset. Flash is a terrible move, and there a far better moves to be used in it's place.

Sorry but I dispatched his DT strategy quite easily by 2HKO with Fearow/or insert any bird here. (Pidgeotto spamming featherdance is cool here)

I just fought Claire. Petal Dance was 4 Hit KO in my game. (level 37)

Doesn't Feraligatr learn Ice punch to deal with the dragons?
I'll give you that, Meganium is *decent* here. That's it.


Chikorita should be in mid tier.

 

[Banryu]

All right, I wanted to argue for Dratini to be higher.

It can be gotten pretty early (before Whitney) without TOO much difficulty, and comes with Dragon Rage, which with Twister can 2HKO everything for the next couple of gyms. Thunder Wave is also pretty useful, and the elemental resistances it provides for your starter (especially Totodile, in my case) are invaluable. Later, it gets Aqua Tail and a couple of other good moves.

Currently, I'm running this set on my Dragonair:
- Thunder Wave
- Twister / Dragon Rush
- Waterfall
- Headbutt

It's sort of like a pseudo-flinchax Togekiss, and it can get coverage on everything with its combination of moves. I had a great deal of success with it against anything that didn't use Ice or Dragon moves (...as one might expect of a dragon, LOL). Plus, having Headbutt and later Waterfall to use outside of battle is useful if you're having trouble finding someone to pull Headbutt (HM-slave Furret has too much demand for his moveslots).
....point is:
- kills everything with Dragon Rage early on
- awesome resistances
- Thunder Wave > Stun Spore
- doesn't need to compete for TMs (good level-up moves)
- Thunder Wave + Flinch moves + King's Rock work well when Dragon Rage stops being able to kill stuff
- evolves into Dragonite (eventually). 'nuff said.

If more expansion and detail is needed, I can provide it.
I was gonna argue for Heracross as well, but I can see that I don't need to. (Heracross is a freakin' monster O_o)

Also, I don't think that Chikorita is really all that bad.
Also, Butterfree's been useful for me all the way to the eighth gym. o_O (responsible for KOing Claire's Kingdra, albeit after it was weakened by teammates.) Is it just me, or has Butterfree gotten way better since the original GSC? >.>

-EDIT- @ PK Gaming: Also, Feraligatr doesn't get Ice Punch until after the E4, it has to make do with Ice Fang until then (which is still pretty good).

 

[hinode]

The more I look at it the more I'm convinced that Chikorita isn't even necessarily the best Grass type.

By comparison, look at Exeggcute. It gets Reflect at L7, Leech Seed at L11, Stun Spore at L19, and Sleep Powder at L23, which are all pretty reasonable. It gets Light Screen from a storebought TM if you really want that, too. It gets more reliable Grass options after evolving in Seed Bomb (relearner) and Wood Hammer (L37), and has the option of using a Psychic TM in Kanto for a second STAB option. Not being available until after the second gym is not a big deal in a game where Grass is at a disadvantage in the first two gyms. The only real drawbacks are probably needing to get 2500 Athlete Points for the Leaf Stone and weaker Grass damage early on, but Leech Seed and Sleep Powder are really good status options that are probably worth the price.

Bellossom gets Sleep Powder/Stun Spore from the Gloom stage, can reach final stage by the fourth gym (or even the third gym potentially), plus Leaf Blade from relearner eventually. It can use Drain Punch for an esoteric coverage move with very little opportunity cost (very few Pokemon are compatible and have usable attack stats, more available from Lottery). Victreebel and Vileplume get the status moves as well and have the option of Sludge Bomb for a secondary STAB (opportunity cost here, but much less than say Earthquake).

I'm not saying any of these are clearly better than Chikorita since they all have at least a couple of disadvantages by comparison, but a three tier difference here seems quite excessive. Chikorita suffers from being a Grass type that is good at neither status nor damage nor type coverage in-game. Grass already suffers from being frequently resisted; removing their usual advantages of status options and not having any really good damage on top of that really hurts.

 

[Mizuno]

I disagree a bit with that. I think Exeggcute is pretty horrible, since you are pretty much stuck using Bullet Seed until you learn Confusion at lv.27, which is pretty late. Leech Seed is nice, but the lack of strong moves early on make rising Exeggcute a pain. Bellsprout has very similar problems, but higher Attack stat at least means Bullet Seed will deal more damage. Oddish, however, is pretty nice with early Acid and Absorb/Mega Drain, which are pretty solid moves along with the Powders.

I think that what makes Chikorita better than the other Grass types is that it learns all that it need to be useful extremely early. Razor Leaf, PoisonPowder, Synthesis and Reflect are really nice moves and allows Chikorita to stall for Poison damage if necessary. You can teach it Headbutt, which the others grass types don't get, for coverage and can later be replaced by Body Slam. Magical Leaf can also replace Razor Leaf if necessary. Also, I like the fact the Meganium is the fastest of the final evolutions of these grass types, which I think is important in-game.

 

[hinode]

The Bullet Seed phase only lasts until you beat the third gym. Exeggcute can use Strength, and you get that pretty much immediately after Sudowoodo. Conversely, it's a better choice for Whitney because it isn't a 7/8 chance of being male. This really helps Exeggcute's chance of getting Leech Seed/Reflect up without being haxed against the Miltank.

I don't consider Poison Powder to be more than minimally relevant at higher tiers for in-game performance. I've certainly done Poison-stall strategies (usually with accuracy lowering as well) before, but only on challenge files where I'm intentionally using weaker stuff. It's a pretty slow and inefficient strategy, something you turn to with lower tier Pokemon. Efficient gameplay means smashing through everything with strong neutral STAB or super-effective attacks, neither of which Chikorita is good at except for a portion early in the game where Razor Leaf is strongest (and even then only if not up against the many many Grass resists early on). The Headbutt phase is also pretty good relative to the other Grasses - without it, I'd be inclined to declare it flat out inferior, since it doesn't keep up with them later on.

The speed advantage is middling compensation at best for the absence of any good status moves, personally. Later on, you have a choice between Petal Dance which conflicts somewhat with support move usage and Magical Leaf which isn't going to be OHKOing anything except 4x weaks anyways. Ironically if it did have Sleep Powder the higher speed would be more valuable!

 

[Colonel M]

I shuffled this around a bit, so I'm going to spark some discussion.

Gyarados is something I'm iffy about atm. It levels... quite slowly, to say the least. If you ever tried to train it seriously, it hits the rock wall as it is leveling off of lower leveled Pokemon (Rocket HQ #1 in Mahogony, there aren't many high leveled | strong Pokemon within there). I'll keep using it more, but to be honest I don't think any of the three that I listed up there are Uber. If more people are convinced of it, I'll keep them up there.

If the Uber Tier still exists, I want to argue Geodude and Scyther in there. Geodude is very solid right from the getgo. It even can train itself in Sprout Tower to some extent since Vine Whip can't OHKO. Geodude thrashes the first 3 gyms by itself, and it claims itself pretty good against Jasmine. It hits rough spots, but as a Graveler it's pretty damn impressive. Learning a natural Rock Polish and STAB moves make it all the better since its main problem, Speed, is easy to fix.

Scyther has little trouble training itself. Most of the Pokemon within its jointime are around its level, and it can pretty much OHKO if it gets U-turn, which I'd argue as the best choice for the TM. Even if you deny U-turn, Rock Smash can decimate the Normal-types within the gym. After Level 21, Scyther hits his "cool story bro" phase. It's bad in Pryce is Right and Jasmine, tbh, but it's at least fast enough in Pryce's to be able to lead, U-turn to something else, and receive some EXP in the process if it has to. It's also great in the E4 it seems. Will and Karen fall for its Bug STAB while Bruno is demolished by its Flying STAB. It's decent in Koga's alley (It's bad against Crobat, but Forretress isn't going to demolish it and Ariados | Venomoth fall to Wing Attack), and I'm iffy on how well it performs in Lance (probably the same as every mon that doesn't have an Ice-type attack). After that we hit Johto. Lt. Guile, Blaine, and Brock are problematic but it does well against Sabrina and Erika and is quite neutral or positive on anyone else. Post-E4 is pretty much the same story. Main point is it does superb in Johto, and does well enough in Kanto to keep going. Given that every Pokemon in the Uber tier has at least some meh period (Cyndaquil only having Fire-type moves that troll, Totodile not having a real STAB behind its Attack stat, Gyarados's frustrating start), I don't see how Scyther is barred from Uber.

I'm going to add Pokewalker stuff in another tier list (it'll be within the same OP, just both will be put under Spoiler tags). I'm going to have to dissect the Pokewalker info and see who gets changed. From a cursory glance:

- Early Doduo, which would cause it to go higher. Probably around Kenya Spearow for sure.
- Kangaskhan, which could probably hit Top | Uber Tier.
- Nidorans have nothing different and, tbh, getting them earlier seems to have little relevance IMO aside from getting Nidorino | Nidorina earlier, but the main thing is getting the Moonstone. No change IMO.
- Ponyta comes earlier. Probably would be ~Mid Tiers?
- Earlier Machop, which is cool at least. Probably can just take event Machops place, if you know what I mean.
- Magby with Sunny Day. Probably wouldn't change much IMO, but up to discussion.
- Earlier Magnemite, which at least has the typing advantage (Steel) vs. the first 4 Gyms. Definitely would spike.
- Elekid, which from what I know is pretty solid. Not 100% sure on Uber, but definitely worthy of being pretty high.
- Murkrow comes earlier. My guess is that it's about Upper Mid | High Tier.
- Smoochum. Umm...
- Early Dratini. Dunno on this one either.
- Krabby comes with Crabhammer, which would make it pretty worthy of rising on the tier list.
- Belly Drum on a Poliwag. This probably doesn't change a whole hell of a lot though, but I guess having +6 Atk is a nice afterthought. Main problem is getting that Water Stone reasonably and then we have to worry about other things (good Fighting STAB where?)
- Earlier Voltorb. Ehh...

So that's about it really. Summarize your thoughts.

 

[Banryu]

My thoughts on Dratini. Probably it's good enough to go up maybe one tier...?

All right, I wanted to argue for Dratini to be higher.

It can be gotten pretty early (before Whitney, sooner with the PW, I think?) without TOO much difficulty, and comes with Dragon Rage, which with Twister can 2HKO everything for the next couple of gyms. Thunder Wave is also pretty useful, and the elemental resistances it provides for your starter (especially Totodile, in my case) are invaluable. Later, it gets Aqua Tail and a couple of other good moves.

Currently, I'm running this set on my lv 37 Dragonair:
- Thunder Wave
- Twister / Dragon Rush
- Waterfall
- Headbutt

It's sort of like a pseudo-flinchax Togekiss, and it can get coverage on everything with its combination of moves. I had a great deal of success with it against anything that didn't use Ice or Dragon moves (...as one might expect of a dragon, LOL). Plus, having Headbutt and later Waterfall to use outside of battle is useful if you're having trouble finding someone to pull Headbutt (HM-slave Furret has too much demand for his moveslots).
....point is:
- kills everything with Dragon Rage early on
- awesome resistances
- Thunder Wave > Stun Spore
- doesn't need to compete for TMs (good level-up moves)
- Thunder Wave + Flinch moves + King's Rock work well when Dragon Rage stops being able to kill stuff
- evolves into Dragonite (eventually) which is pretty much enough for it to still be useful once you get into Kanto, or so I assume. (c'mon, it's Dragonite.)

If more expansion and detail is needed, I can provide it.

As for Geodude, I personally didn't have the patience to level it up to learn Rock Throw early on, I just as soon opted for the Bellsprout-for-Rocky Onix trade as I always do. :/ The fact that he doesn't learn a decent attacking move (or an attacking move at all, for that matter) outside of Tackle until the teen levels made me not want to go for it.

After that, of course, I can't say, and it sounds like you've pretty much got that covered... accounting for my laziness, he probably doesn't need to move, really. But I just thought I'd throw this out there.

 

[Kikuichimonji]

I think Misdreavus is too high. A non-STAB Psybeam at level 23 caries you for most of the game until level 37 when you get Shadow Ball. Its stats are nothing special. It's very similar to Butterfree: available for less of the game, marginally better stats, a non-STAB Psybeam at roughly the same time, and a 80-power special STAB three levels before Butterfree's 90-power special STAB. There should not be two whole tiers separating Misdreavus from Caterpie.

Venonat should be below Caterpie. Venonat doesn't evolve until level 31. Your Confusion and Psybeam will be running off a base 40 special attack until then. Also, Signal Beam is worse than Bug Buzz.

Razor Leaf, PoisonPowder, Synthesis and Reflect are really nice moves and allows Chikorita to stall for Poison damage if necessary. You can teach it Headbutt, which the others grass types don't get, for coverage and can later be replaced by Body Slam.

Synthesis is basically free potions, but has the cons of not being a priority move (if the other Pokemon is faster, it will attack Chikorita before you can use Synthesis) and also capping at 50% healing. (Super Potions will be giving you >50% up until the point that you evolve.) Synthesis doesn't allow you to do anything new, it just allows you to save a little bit of cash by buying fewer potions.

Return comes at Goldenrod, which is right after Headbutt Return is also available in unlimited quantities, so there is no opportunity cost associated with it. (You don't even need to pay money for Return.) With regards to "getting a Normal move," I'd put all grass types on equal footing.

Body Slam comes at level 46. Most of the game is over by that point.

Also, I like the fact the Meganium is the fastest of the final evolutions of these grass types, which I think is important in-game.

Weepinbell is better in both attack stats than Meganium, and it comes at level 21. It also can get stone evolution by that point, since the picnicker who gives you the Leaf Stone comes right after Violet city.

Gyarados is something I'm iffy about atm. It levels... quite slowly, to say the least. If you ever tried to train it seriously, it hits the rock wall as it is leveling off of lower leveled Pokemon (Rocket HQ #1 in Mahogony, there aren't many high leveled | strong Pokemon within there).

Let's suppose that Feraligatr was level 30 when you caught Gyarados at level 30. Each of them get equal training, let's say 34900 exp. This takes Feraligatr to level 40, and Gyarados to level 35. Comparing these two, Gyarados is slightly lower in HP and speed, and has cruddy special attack, but its attack is actually slightly higher than Feraligatr. Bearing in mind that damage calculations also factor in level, the two are about equal in terms of attack. Gyarados will be relying mostly on Strength while Feraligatr's best is Crunch at that point, so they're basically even. However, Gyarados's lack of a STAB until level 35 (a point by which your starter will realistically have reached level 40) does hurt it. Moving it down a tier doesn't seem like such a bad move both for this reason and the fact that it only joins partway through the game.

 

[GMLW]

I think that Hoothoot should be moved up to High. I remember in the original Gold and Silver that Morty was one of the hardest gyms to beat due to his evil Hypnosis+Dream Eater combo and his very powerful and fast Gengar. Now, Hoothoot and Noctowl have gained Insomnia as an ability, allowing them immunity to sleep, which gives them immunity to Dream Eater. Its Normal typing allows it immunity to Shadow Ball as well. This means the only move that Gengar and Haunter can hit it with is Sucker Punch, which can avoided by putting them to sleep with your own Hypnosis. Not to mention that Noctowl can hit them with a strong SE Confusion. Hoothoot can be gained very early in the game, and you don't even have to start with Hoothoot, as Noctowl can be gained through Headbutt trees. Because of this, you could also choose to put Noctowl on the list. It also has other uses than just beating Morty, it's a strong special attacker as well as an excellent special wall that can be obtained very early in the game. It also has a pretty good movepool with Air Slash, Psychic, Shadow Ball, Roost, Hypnosis, and you can trade it to Platinum if you want to teach it Heat Wave.

Anyway, move Hoothoot up please.

 

[hinode]

Morty's Gengar doesn't have Dream Eater anymore; its moveset is Hypnosis/Mean Look/Shadow Ball/Sucker Punch. Pretty much any Normal type with a non-attacking move and something that can damage Gengar beats it.

 

[MegaKick]

do we count evolution stones from pokeathlon? because I don't see staryu high up, but I got a water stone without having to cheat the clock or anything

 

[Afti]

I'd be fine with seeing Geodude in Uber; it doesn't have Rock Throw by Falkner, but it walls his crap and has a nicely powerful Tackle.

HG/SS are basically Pokemon Geodude Version, to be quite honest. It tears through the entire ingame almost on its own.

 

[Kikuichimonji]

Observations from my current playthrough:

Chinchou is actually usable right off the bat. He was able to solo the Olivine Lighthouse with minimal potion usage (I only used one super potion). The Olivine Lighthouse consists mainly of flying and water types, most of which you can OHKO or 2HKO with Spark. (I ended up using Thunder against a Reflect Noctowl and a Harden Krabby.) There are also Growliths, which Surf OHKOs. The only things in the Lighthouse that Chinchou lacks a type advantage against are Machops, which die quickly to Surf anyway.

Immediately after the Olivine Lighthouse is the trip to Cianwood, which has plenty of swimmers for free experience as well. In the Cianwood gym, he was able to get some experience off Machops and Mankeys, and I let him get some experience from the gym battle too. This took him up to level 26, and a rare candy evolved him.

Though weak in his infancy, Chinchou is not completely useless (far from it--he's able to solo an entire dungeon with minimal healing). He does suffer from a low growth rate, but being a water/electric type is a very good thing. Electric types are few and far between, and Surf is always a good thing. I would be fine with moving Chinchou up to mid.

HG Caterpie definitely needs to be higher. A 97.5% accurate sleep move at level 12 is nigh broken at the time you get it and it remains awesome throughout the game. At the very least, it deserves high tier, and I think it belongs in the top tier. (Possibly even uber tier, since it seems like we're putting Geodude there as well.)

 

[Tint]

advocating kanga to uber. it's on the first route of the pokewalker, so it's "easy to get" compared to other pw pokes. it gets stab fake out and then headbutt, off a sick attack stat for that early in the game. it levels up pretty quick, it doesn't have a bad gym (okay jasmine but just give it drain punch and there you go). it gets outrage right when you get around blackthorn even when you're rushing through the game, which is a life saver vs. kingdra. honestly you can just keep faking out, death foddering, and repeating on just about any troublesome poke. it'spretty damn bulky, doesn't take up TMs, what's not to love?

 

[bugmaniacbob]

I agree with Scyther's moving up to Uber. If Serebii can be believed, it levels up faster than anything currently in the Uber tier, which is a huge bonus, and can get all the moves it needs from U-turn, Wing Attack, Rock Smash and Quick Attack. It is notable that neither Pinsir nor Heracross can learn Wing Attack, but it is another thing that Scyther's Wing Attack, correct me if I'm wrong, is the most powerful Flying-type move in Johto (barring the time-consuming Crobat Brave Bird or similar). Crobat is faster, but Scyther has the more powerful U-turn, and Scyther's speed is immensely useful when using this move, and I can't think of any Pokemon in HGSS that uses it better.

On the subject of the Technician/Swarm difficulty, if it's really bothering you that much, when you find a Scyther you can easily check the damage it does with Pursuit/Quick Attack/False Swipe, as a Technician Scyther will do 50% more damage (so your average Swarm Scyther will do something around 16 HP damage to the average level 14 Quilava with any of the above moves, whereas Technician Scyther does something like 24 HP to the same Quilava). Technician False Swipe by level up is also a big plus, as it is immensely useful when catching weaker Pokemon. Defensively, it's not too bad, around Starmie's level, though admittedly with a worse defensive typing. And although this isn't being factored into the rankings, if you happen to have a Diamond or other cartridge and can borrow a DS, you can use the SS Aqua Metal Coat to get Scizor, who is excellent in most of the Kanto gyms.

All in all, I can't see much of a reason why Scyther shouldn't be Uber.

 

[IOS]

Observations from my current playthrough:
HG Caterpie definitely needs to be higher. A 97.5% accurate sleep move at level 12 is nigh broken at the time you get it and it remains awesome throughout the game. At the very least, it deserves high tier, and I think it belongs in the top tier. (Possibly even uber tier, since it seems like we're putting Geodude there as well.)

I am currently using Butterfree in my bug-only playthrough, and I heavily disagree with this.

First of all, actually training Caterpie is brutal. And I mean BRUTAL. Even if you catch it at level 4, it has trouble killing a Level 2 Spinerak, and you'll certainly have to run to a Pokecenter or use a potion after every battle. Evolving to Metapod doesn't help too much either. It was still only 3HKOing Bellsprouts in the Sprout Tower. When you have so many Pokemon with the potential to OHKO them (Cyndaquil, any bird Pokemon, etc) it really shows how useless Metapod is in the tower.

So after the tower, Metapod finally evolved into Butterfree. After the torture I had to undergo training the stupid thing, it finally started being good. Confusion was generally OHKOing, and I had no problems up to Bugsy.

Then around Whitney it started to dwindle a bit. I had Heracross and Scyther now, and they were OHKOing without batting an eyelash. Butterfree was starting to fail to OHKO...even with STAB Gust.

This problem got worse and worse until I finally got to Morty when I realized how far Butterfree had fallen. I tried facing Morty with Butterfree, and he got destroyed. Weak defenses, and was failing to OHKO Haunters. Butterfree died, and I promptly switched to Scyther who OHKO'd everything but Gengar (who was 2HKO'd).

Butterfree started to get worse and worse until he started to become completely useless. He was 3HKOing with Psybeam/Gust when those moves were SUPER EFFECTIVE, while Hera/Scyther were OHKOing with neutral damage.

The final straw was Chuck's gym, where my Level 29 Butterfree failed to OHKO a Level 23 Mankey. That was the final straw where I concluded that Butterfree sucks.

So yes, Butterfree is nice earlygame (After you spend 6 grueling levels training it). But it quickly dwindles and eventually becomes pretty much useless. Sleep Powder is nice but its not incredibly efficient.

I haven't used Chikorita, but I would be willing to bet that he has much more long term potential then Butterfree. If anything, Caterpie should move down not up.

PS: I strongly agree with Scyther to Uber

 

[Kikuichimonji]

Your argument seems to be that Butterfree should be moved down because it as "not as good as Scyther and Heracross." Placement in the high tier still denotes status of "not as good as Scyther and Heracross.

 

[IOS]

Being terrible compared to Scyther and Heracross wasn't my main argument. Being terrible in general due to poor defenses and lack of offense is what my argument hinges on. I can go into more detail if necessary, possibly comparing Caterpie to a Pokemon in Upper Mid.

 

[UncleSam]

I want to petition for Zubat to Top. It is available almost immediately once you start, and basically once it hits level 13 it runs through most of the rest of the game. Yes, training it up to level 13 is a pain, but after that it just gets better and better, and is clearly superior to Geodude after the first gym. It's also worth noting that it lines up very well with picking Totodile as one's starter, because it absolutely destroys Chikorita/Bayleef/Meganium, which are difficult to handle with the "ubers"(Totodile/Geodude). If it wasn't such a pain to get to level 13 it would definitely be uber in my opinion, but a pokemon that is pretty clearly the best available for 85 percent of the game seems like it should be in the top tier to me.

 

[IOS]

Thats the thing though. All the Pokemon in Top require very little training in order to be competent. Trying to train Zubat is one of the most tedious things you can possibly put yourself through. I still remember trying to train it in Union Cave against a Pokemon, and it actually ran out of PP for Leech Life before it could kill the rival Pokemon. And then it doesn't even turn out that great. It has Wing Attack and Bite as its only usable moves until Level 39, and unlike a Pokemon like Scyther, it doesn't have Technician to make Wing Attack uber. Zubat's excruciating training period is enough to keep it out of Top.

 

[Naxte]

I want to petition for Zubat to Top. It is available almost immediately once you start, and basically once it hits level 13 it runs through most of the rest of the game. Yes, training it up to level 13 is a pain, but after that it just gets better and better, and is clearly superior to Geodude after the first gym. It's also worth noting that it lines up very well with picking Totodile as one's starter, because it absolutely destroys Chikorita/Bayleef/Meganium, which are difficult to handle with the "ubers"(Totodile/Geodude). If it wasn't such a pain to get to level 13 it would definitely be uber in my opinion, but a pokemon that is pretty clearly the best available for 85 percent of the game seems like it should be in the top tier to me.

I disagree--it seems to be just fine where it is to me. As you said, you can get it very early on. However, it's an absolute horror to get up to Level 13 (I tried to use it on my HG team on my most recent playthrough, but with Leech Life's absolutely pathetic damage, I just quickly gave up and went back and caught a Spearow to replace it), where it learns it's first actual half-way decent move (Bite), which still doesn't even have STAB, meaning it's, while usable, still not that great coming off Zubat's 45 Atk, which is fairly low even for early game. Until then, you have to rely on Leech Life until Level 9, and then Astonish afterwards, which isn't much better. However, after that, it's not until Level 17 that it gets its first actual STAB move in the form of Wing Attack, and once it reaches that point, it doesn't get anything more from levelling up, until Level 39 as Golbat/Crobat in the form of Poison Fang. While Poison Fang has STAB, it's an even weaker move than Wing Attack, and is really late to be getting another STAB move (you should be around the Elite Four by that point).

If you give it the TMs from the first two gyms, Roost and U-turn, it can quickly become an alright Pokemon, but it does have competition for those TMs from Pokemon like Scyther, which can make just as good, if not better use of them, especially U-turn. Scyther does come later, but is still available once you reach the third gym, which is hardly late at all (and as you need to beat Bugsy anyway to get U-turn, it's not much of wait from there getting to Goldendrod and picking up a Scyther).

Beyond that, the only things that Zubat really wants are Fly (which you don't get until beating Chuck, but Wing Attack should last you until that) and X-Scissor, which is unfeasible to get in an in-game run (as in HG/SS, it's only available at the Battle Frontier, or at least so says Serebii).

You can also try to use Zubat as your trapper for the Legendary Beasts, but it has competition from Gastly for that job, which comes at about the same time and learns Mean Look much faster, as well as Hypnosis, while also being fast enough to do the job. It may not get as strong quite as fast as Zubat, but it does get Night Shade at Level 15, a set-damage move, which can be useful for the purpose of catching the dogs.

In any case though, while Zubat's probably a better choice for a Flying-type than stuff like Pidgey and Hoothoot (due to getting better faster than them and arguably staying so), it's also definitely not on the same level as Pokemon like Spearow, Mareep, and Scyther. So, pretty much, it seems to be in just the right place to me.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'm going to say, gaining levels in this game is not a particularly huge issue for a normal playthrough if you are very intelligent about using your Pokewalker. But anyhow...

Gastly I think is better than Ratatta. Ratatta is indeed better earlygame since he gets access to more offensive moves right off the bat (including STAB Headbutt which is very good), and Ratatta does make Morty extremely easy. But once Gastly gets Curse (level 12), he becomes more reliably useful against anything that might be really nasty to deal with (Clair's Kingdra personally gave me a lot of trouble until I Cursed it to death), since Curse basically guarantees a 4 turn kill on everything and ignores evasion hax, and assuming you're well stocked on healing items, stalling an enemy with Curse is easy and safe to do. Gastly also gets Hypnosis, which is a very useful tool for catching other useful Pokemon.

By the middle of the Johto saga, Haunter learns Shadow Ball at level 33 (Specs Shadow Ball is srs business, and >>> Raticate's offenses most of the time) and while both Haunter and Raticate are pretty miserably frail and won't be surviving more than 2 hits against most enemies, Haunter more importantly can always kill any enemy in one move that never misses.

 

[matty]

Tentacruel is really pretty much equal with Feraligatr stat wise, and it has dual STABS and better resistances, so I can't see them not being in the same tier.
I read that there is a Lass on Route 34 that will call you to give you Leaf Stones if you get her number. Route 34 is just before Goldenroad, so this is very convenient for Oddish/Bellsprout/Exeggcute. Exeggcute especially, since you can get it from Headbutting trees pretty early, and you don't need to level it at all in order to get Exeggcutor.

I wanna second this. Also, Toxic Spikes is nice for the both Pryce and Claire. Fucking Kingdra is so gay that I had to use a Tenta I caught to beat her. It also comes in handy for the E4 if you are weak to certain types.

 

[The 1 and Only Lady Gaga]

Actually, Game corner could become economical with abuse.

I'm not sure if the ban on glitch abuse would extend to this. It's taking advantage of the way the game is coded, but it isn't really abusing a "glitch" any more than using an EV checker would be. I actually have not touched the Game Corner (I'll look at it the next time I play the game) but it seems like the game is to some degree skill-based and this tool is just an accelerator, at the very least it's good as a learning tool.

When luck is on my side I can rake in 1000 coins within 15 minutes in the Voltorb Flip... when not I can barely get 10 coins. It is 70% strategy and 30% luck. When you see a whole line saying 0 voltorbs you can just flip everything, and if it says 5 voltorbs mark everything as voltorbs.

 

[acinod]

Starmie can be obtained from the Pokewalker as soon as you can trade over GTS. Though you may want to level it the Staryu up to Lv. 15 first so it gets Recover before you use the Water Stone that is held by it.