Heart Gold | Soul Silver In-Game Tier List

[Sceats]

So sand attack is good now?
Flash is terrible and having to resort to it is sad. Esoecially in a game where your expected to OHKO/2HKO a good amount of the opposition. Headbutt on Meganium still doesn't help its woefully bad position and sometimes your better of using her grass STAB.

3/8?

No, she is merely decent at 3 and terrible in 5. She is a disgrace of a starter.

Obviously you would only use flash against the trouble fights such as whitney and chucks miltank and poliwrath respectively, however how is that disgraceful? You dont have to do it however seeing as it completely imobilises them i dont see any reason why you wouldnt.

Also singlehandedly stopping whitney with reflect and magical leaf and potentially synthesis isnt decent its awesome. Being able to prevent primeape from using his double team strategy with magical leaf while still having the bulk to take a focus punch if need be isnt decent either. Especially when it can use flash on his poliwrath to stop it from using hypnosis. Also even though dragon resists grass meganium still really helps with the many seadras in the gym aswell as having lightscreen to halve clairs kingdas damage and flash to make hydro pump useless. It also has the high powered petaldance that can 3 hko kingdra.

In each of these cases Bayleaf/Meganium isnt decent but extroadinary against the 3 gyms that are commonly thought of as the hardest in johto.

 

[breh]

Meganium is waaaay too high up the tier list. The sheer lack of offensive moves (and support) that meganium learns (at least at early levels) is disappointing. I can sum up its useful level-up movepool in four categories: grass attack(Razor Leaf to Magical Leaf to Petal Dance), Synthesis, Normal attack (Headbutt to Body Slam), and Reflect/Light Screen. That's it. NOTHING ELSE it learns is useful. It also is screwed over in the fact that every single grass TM (barring the terrible solarbeam) is in Kanto - energy ball, grass knot, giga drain... etc. Personally its one good attribute is its high defensive properties - practically nothing will OHKO it ingame. Through the game, I pretty much used it for... uh... killing water types and quadruple weak pokemon (Graveler/Rhydon, among others). However, it did save my ass during the fight against Lance (where Reflect essentially won me the battle).

Golduck should be mentioned somewhere... I have a total of two HM slaves - Furret (Strength, Rock Smash, Whirlpool, and Cut) and Golduck (Waterfall, Rock Climb, Flash, and Headbutt); while this is not the most useful ingame (because Rock Climb is given so late in the game), it is the only one catchable ingame (that isn't smeargle) that can learn Flash, Rock Climb, and Waterfall.

 

[Colonel M]

Okay, so I need to see what I need to propose:

Togepi: If IOS is correct about the stone from what I heard on IRC, I think it's okay for it to rise. It definitely has a mediocre period (nothing to deny), but I guess it also depends on when it hatches. Mine hatched before I hit Union Cave, though I'm trying to remember if I backtracked when I was doing it (my guess: probably did).

I think the best answer is Chikorita down. Halp me out guys. :/

 

[Slyguy46]

I'm glad that Kangaskhan is thought of so highly, but I believe it deserves to be Top Tier, for the following:

-You get it ridiculously early and easily. It's found in the first Pokewalker area, and can easily be obtained before Azalea town.
-It makes Gym matches that are otherwise annoying easy. Through proper use of Fake Out, Headbutt, Crunch, Outrage and Scrappy, Whitney, Morty, and Claire are ridiculously easy to beat. Let me reitirate: WHITNEY, the single most annoying Gym Leader ever, becomes easy to beat.
-It makes a good HM Slave. It is capable of learning 6 of the 8 HMs, being Cut, Surf, Strength, Rock Smash, Rock Climb and Whirlpool.

 

[DDRMaster]

Seconding Kangaskan movement to Top (provided we're including Pokewalker Pokemon which I also completely agree with). I haven't used it myself, but a Lv. 8 Pokemon that's available at the begining of the game that basically has Feraligatr's stats is broken. Fake Out and Scrappy means that the first thing you send it out on in the begining will be KO'd without getting a turn, provided it's slower and not Rock or Steel. Learning Bite, Crunch, Mega Punch, Dizzy Punch, Outrage, and Sucker Punch by level up ads to it. Edit: You can also teach it Return at Golderod if you get there on a Sunday.

Also, if we're including Pokewalker Pokemon, Ponyta and Elekid need to be given tiers and many Pokemon like Doduo can be obtained much earlier. Here's the serebi page with the Pokewalker Pokemon.
http://www.serebii.net/heartgoldsoulsilver/pokewalker-area.shtml
I don't think you can get any path past town outskirts before getting the National Dex, even though serebi doesn't say so, so Slugma, Houndour, Pikachu (without Yellow Forrest), and Sneasel would still be part of Kanto.

 

[jumpluff]

If you're going to assume Togepi before Union Cave, you need to factor in the time it takes to hatch. Every single playthrough I've done has involved Togepi coming around Goldenrod, where the median level is somewhere around 14-15.

Seconding this experience. My Togepi, funnily enough, evolved a few steps away from the Day Care Centre. Of course, with auto-Running Shoes, it's possible to just run around a bit and hatch it.

I'd rather not include PokéWalker Pokémon for simplicity if we aren't including other stuff for that sake (that and I don't have one so I can't give opinion, jk!), but we could always add them as separate entries if it's felt the PW changes their position drastically (for instance, Staryu | Pokéwalker and Staryu).

 

[the pugilist]

I think the best answer is Chikorita down. Halp me out guys. :/

chikorita probablly does need to go down, although I think people are overhyping its problems - for example, it doesn't fare as poorly as PK Gaming would have you believe. the best idea would most likely be to compare it to the other mons in top and see how it fares etc.

agreeing with the idea of including the pokewalker pokemon.

 

[acinod]

Just happened to hatch a Modest Togepi just before entering Union Cave. I just switch it in and out of battle and it's leveling up pretty fast this way.

 

[Darkmalice]

Raikou and Entei should be moved from Upper Upper Mid to Mid at the very highest. Whilst they are great Pokemon, they are simply far too hard to catch without a Master Ball, which is gotten very late into the Johto section of the game, and you cannot assume you will use the Master Ball on them. This is also ignoring the possibility of them Roaring you and forcing you to soft reset, amongst all the other difficulties of finding / trapping / catching them. Furthermore, it will take a long while and a fair amount of effort to catch the two dogs, whilst the tier list is designed for Pokemon used to proceed through the game at a reasonably fast rate.

 

[Destiny Warrior]

Doubt: What is with that Garchomp with Tyranitar support at the top? Does it mean Uber?

Anyway, about Slowpoke, put it in Lower or Low. That is all that it deserves.

 

[pastel]

I'd rather not include PokéWalker Pokémon for simplicity if we aren't including other stuff for that sake (that and I don't have one so I can't give opinion, jk!), but we could always add them as separate entries if it's felt the PW changes their position drastically (for instance, Staryu | Pokéwalker and Staryu).

Well, a part of HG and SS games, is the inclusion of pokewalker, wich is obtained on the moment you buy the game(Assuming you are not using a flash cart or an emulator to play through), so not taking it into consideration, would be evading a part of the game itself. If Nintendo and Gamfreak wants us to have elekid and kanghaskans at the beggining of the game, it's Ok.

 

[Jumpman16]

The pokewalker pokemon cannot be ignored on this. I got nidoran M like first thing in the game thanks to pokewalker. I know it was mentioned at the bottom of the first page, but this should count.

Still not convinced? Ask jumpman how far he progressed in-game and what pokemon he got to go along with his starter. If I recall, superluck murkrow and elekid...

Confirming enthusiastically. The main point about Elekid is that regardless of my own ridiculous standards, it is broken ingame. Having Thunderpunch at Lv11 (when it normally learns it at Lv28), literally the entire line's strongest physical move (besides Giga Impact but you can just stfu about that right now), screams broken, like "lol dppt starly gets wing attack at Lv9 and evolves at Lv14" broken. It was dropping Bellsprouts in one hit without even thinking about it. And putting Low Kick with that, arguably the entire line's best fighting option, to give Elekid a diverse Electric/Fighting combination with no overlap, is fantastic even if earlygame pokes don't necessarily weigh all that much (still does the trick on Onix and Geodude and probably Whitney's Miltank if I ever decide to stop Voltorb Flipping for Staryu's TMs lol).

And with Quick Attack you have a set you kind of don't even ever have to change until you want to, plus the fact that the Elekid line kind of begs to go mixed meaning that there are almost no terrible Natures you can get from your exploits on the Pokewalker (mine is Mild which isn't that bad especially for its 23-27Def and 7-11 SpA). Finally, both Murkrow and Elekid are in the same Suburban Area, which validates the "RNG luck" of looking for either (and Murkrow rocks even if it doesn't get any special moves to validate its 85SpA until a late Dark Pulse)—with my Modest 31SpA 29Spe Natural Cure Staryu now in tow in Goldenrod, the last pokemon I need is Eevee.

We need to start recognizing the reasonably easy to get PokeWalker pokemon somehow like jumpluff mentioned, because many of them are seemingly created to wreck ingame.

 

[Afti]

I just realized something.

Octillery is available as early as Goldenrod via Beyond the Sea, which opens with any international GTS trade. That's not hard to pull off, although I suppose you could argue against it...

Octillery has a hideously huge movepool and doesn't need much TM support at all beyond the obvious Surf/Waterfall. It has 105 Attack and Special Attack, letting it deal out huge damage from either side of the spectrum. So, it can pull off a set like:

Surf (Bubblebeam until getting the HM)/Aurora Beam/Psybeam/Fire Blast

Physical isn't notable beyond throwing Waterfall on when you get it and calling it mixed. It doesn't get its GOOD physical options (for instance, Waterfall/Gunk Shot/Rock Blast) until Blackthorn.

This is ridiculous; 75/75/75 defenses aren't too great a hindrance ingame, so it can just sit there and rip through entire Gyms with periodic Potion support. And Remoraid comes at zero steps, so you just go into BTS, walk down the hall a couple times, catch a Remoraid, and send it over. Evolve it at level 20, which is fairly early, and it's obscene.

 

[Black Buddha]

Ok just a heads-up to everyone saying stones are impossible to get-

There are two ways of getting the main 1-3rd gen stones. Yes the Dusk and Dawn and Shiny stones are off-limits before the E4, but you can get the rest.

Now the more tedious way is getting the phone numbers of the various people. I don't really remember who they are, but i think Gina the Picnicker on the route south of Goldenrod gives you a Leaf Stone, and Lass Dana gives you a thunderstone north of Olivine. I know this works since I HAVE received a Thunderstone from Dana ingame, its just horribly tedious.

Now get athletic for the second way. For 2500 Points, 6 out of the 7 days of the week you are able to get one of the 6 stones (Saturday or Friday is the exception). 2500 points isnt too hard, its around 7-8 playthroughs of an event assuming you can get 350+ sometimes 400 points per run. Not too hard.

This is especially great since you can get stuff like Ninetales and your Eeveelutions as early as after the 3rd gym, which isnt too bad. Especially for most of the mons which are held down low due to stone issues. Just a little bit of info.

Oh and if Spearow is High, I definately think Doduo should belong there as well- You can get him in the first Pokewalker course, although it requires some steps (2k i believe) but it comes at level 8. Not too many notable moves, but it does have early Quick Attack and soon gets Pursuit at level 19 to lay the hurt on Morty. Drill peck at lvl 47 as Dodrio isnt too exciting, no, but atleast you can either tutor it Pluck by Heart Scale or even use your Pluck TM. Pluck could also come useful against the Gym leader's trump cards, snatching their Sitrus Berry for yourself. Its the same power as Aerial Ace btw, and youre not going to be really "wasting" it as I doubt youll be using Pluck later on competitively =/

 

[Diana]

Backing up Jumpman on Elekid and Murkrow, since I kind of got grounded and ended up taking long walks with the pokewalker and all I unlocked stuff for heartgold fast. Elekid's just plain unfair, and Murkrow hits like a truck even with Pursuit and Peck early. It gets Wing Attack around level 15 too.

I'll say more soon but the cartridge kind of got lost last night so I'm looking for it now...

 

[Kikuichimonji]

I think that Farfetch'd is better than Skarmory. Farfetched can join before facing Morty (and doesn't require a significant detour to obtain before this point, it's literally a 1-minute walk from the front of the gym) and it comes with Aerial Ace. It also has access to Return, which makes a nice STAB. Skarmory joins much later (the earliest you could get it is before facing Claire), and it lacks any good STABs. Air Cutter and Swift (not a STAB) are both special, so really the best thing it has is Peck and Fly until 7 levels after it joins, when it learns the 90% accurate Steel Wing. Skarmory suffers from bad join time and a severe lack of good moves, neither of which are issues for Farfetch'd. Farfetch'd does have lower stats overall, but I think it still deserves a spot above Skarmory. Either Farfetch'd needs to be moved up or Skarmory needs to be moved down. Probably the latter would be more advisable.

 

[Zog]

Exactly, getting a usable one is hard to get ahold of. That's not too efficient, now is it? The other two bugs up there also do better than 70 and 60 BP, at still lower levels (Heracross even gets better STAB right off the bat, Pinsir gets X-Scissor, SD and Brick Break by level up). I'm also unconvinced of its effectiveness late game, especially against the last three gym leaders (Jasmine, Pryce, and Clair). Rock Smash will not save it against the former two as they run high defense Pokemon and is unlikely to OHKO them with Rock Smash, and it overall lacks the durability it needs to succeed late game.

Scyther is upper mid at best, but imo is mid.

I used Scyther on my playthrough and it completely destroyed everything with wing attack. Wing attack isn't just powerful; with technician it destroys almost anything. The first Scyther I came up against was a technician one, and even with sassy nature it was still much stronger than anything else I had at the time.

I spent about 20 minutes with a magnet pull magnemite hunting down magnemites for a metal coat by Olivine, and used it to get Scizor. Heart scale bullet punch onto him and he's unstoppable, even by most of the elite 4.

Additionally I suggest people take Spinarak more seriously. With a bit of daycare and a dig TM, Ariados is surprisingly decent with its priority attacks and dig. My one made quick work of Jasmine's gym and proved itself useful even in the elite 4. Yanma too, while hard to get hold of, was great for beating rockets and at level 33 Yanmega is a real beast (and yes the evolution does happen; I was surprised myself that I got a Yanmega after 6 badges).

 

[Afti]

Having used Ampharos, I'll have to disagree with its status in Top.

It's still very, very good, but it really misses the elemental punch TMs- and even when it DOES get them they aren't special. I'd say it's High now; it has to rely on Focus Blast, Thundershock, and a gimped, physical Thunderpunch for far too long.

 

[Kikuichimonji]

One thing to bear in mind is that Flaffy gets access to Thunder as soon as you set foot in Goldenrod.

 

[hinode]

Having used Ampharos, I'll have to disagree with its status in Top.

It's still very, very good, but it really misses the elemental punch TMs- and even when it DOES get them they aren't special. I'd say it's High now; it has to rely on Focus Blast, Thundershock, and a gimped, physical Thunderpunch for far too long.

The Mareep line does not get Focus Blast until Ampharos stage. Flaaffy learns Discharge at L31 - by holding off evolution for one level - that's probably worth it in this case to get a reliable 80 power STAB move 3 levels earlier.

Another alternative STAB option would be Charge Beam, available near the Lighthouse with Surf. Considering that Charge Beam isn't in demand as much as Shadow Ball/Earthquake/etc. are, and that you can get a second from Power Plant eventually, plus unlimited ones from the Lottery, I wouldn't hesitate to throw Charge Beam on any electric type I used in-game if I wanted a stronger STAB option than Thundershock.

 

[Kikuichimonji]

Flaaffy learns Discharge at L31 - by holding off evolution for one level - that's probably worth it in this case to get a reliable 80 power STAB move 3 levels earlier.

Keep in mind that by doing so you lose access to Thunderpunch (Ampharos learns it at level 30). It's not really that consequential, especially considering that Discharge has higher power and runs off a higher special attack stat, but it is something to be cognizant of.

 

[Rabbit]

Keep in mind that by doing so you lose access to Thunderpunch (Ampharos learns it at level 30). It's not really that consequential, especially considering that Discharge has higher power and runs off a higher special attack stat, but it is something to be cognizant of.

If you did want to get Thunderpunch later, there's always the move tutor in Blackthorn. I've had pretty good success finding Heart Scales in the rocks near Cianwood. While I definitely wouldn't waste one to teach Thunderpunch to an Ampharos, it is an option.

 

[KurashiDragon]

Ok guys, weather or not you were expecting this remains beside the point. Today is April 1st which means you can download the Yellow forest over WFC. I will be the one to say it then. I move for an increase in Pikachu's tiering because of this.

 

[Afti]

I disagree; it's an event. Realistically, we shouldn't tier based on limited-time events. I'm sure Darkrai would have been great to obtain halfway through D/P!

 

[Diana]

I have to agree with Afti. Limited time events shouldn't be used in tiering. Pokewalker isn't limited time overall, but the events are.