This won't necessarily be the case though, because certain pokewalker pokemon may outclass pokemon that fill the same role. Just like Geodude largely outclasses Onix (which is the reason why Onix is so low), pokewalker pokemon may bump other pokemon down merely because you can obtain them earlier/they start with better moves.
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Heart Gold | Soul Silver In-Game Tier List
- Thread starter Colonel M
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Sure, Onix is outclassed badly by Geodude, but I don't think that should bump it all the way to low. Geodude existing doesn't stop it from being a quite useful early-game Pokemon that isn't too bad later on either. Even using being outclassed I think it's mid.
No, Onix is not entirely worthless. We assume that a Pokemon contributes right after its jointime. We don't bash Pokemon because X outclasses Y, otherwise it wouldn't be a tier list. Rather, it'd be something like:
- Recommended
- Somewhat Recommended
- Not Recommended
- Recommended
- Somewhat Recommended
- Not Recommended
I have been lurking a bit and I (OK maybe I'm just stupid) dont understand why swinub is so low. Mamoswine can be obtained as soon as you get to Blackthorn city ( it should be a piloswine by that time) and rips Clair and Lance apart. You get Ice Shard at lvl 28 and have a decent attack stat with Piloswine.
Also, why is Dratini so low???
Also, why is Dratini so low???
Okay.
But Dragonair is quite good. It gets Aqua Tail, Followed by Dragon Rush. After this, it learns Dragon Dance (lvl 53 i think). Also, Dratini can be obtained as soon as you are in Goldenrod. It was the most valuable member of my team in the last walkthrough I did.
EDIT: Opinion of an old discussion: Dodrio outclasses Fearow and Togetic, since a shiny stone cannot be obtained before E4.
But Dragonair is quite good. It gets Aqua Tail, Followed by Dragon Rush. After this, it learns Dragon Dance (lvl 53 i think). Also, Dratini can be obtained as soon as you are in Goldenrod. It was the most valuable member of my team in the last walkthrough I did.
EDIT: Opinion of an old discussion: Dodrio outclasses Fearow and Togetic, since a shiny stone cannot be obtained before E4.
Heracross should definitely be in uber if scyther is, scyther is strong, but heracross is just ridiculous.
As mentioned before, scyther is very rare and must be caught in a specialized area, while heracross is easily available in azalea town the moment you get headbutt. Scyther doesn't learn any STAB moves until level 22 with wing attack. Heracross gets Aerial Ace at level 13 and STAB brick break break at 19. It learns close combat at level 38 and megahorn in the 40s iirc, while scyther has to rely on the u-turn tm or other tms or hms like rock smash for coverage. I soloed whitneys gym using rock smash on hera, and ohko'd every single pokemon without taking a hit (scored a critical on miltank lol, then reset for a more epic battle). Heracross also fares well against chuck and pryces gyms. For stats, Heracross is bulkier and has 15 points more offense than scyther, whose speed advantage is relatively inconsequential. Scyther is powerful and useful with things like false swipe, but it's typing is inferior I don't really see any way in which it is superior to heracross. I suppose if you can evolve it into scizor by getting the metal coat at pokeathlon, they would be more equal, but as it is heracross is a beast, probably even higher than cydaquil and totodile.
As mentioned before, scyther is very rare and must be caught in a specialized area, while heracross is easily available in azalea town the moment you get headbutt. Scyther doesn't learn any STAB moves until level 22 with wing attack. Heracross gets Aerial Ace at level 13 and STAB brick break break at 19. It learns close combat at level 38 and megahorn in the 40s iirc, while scyther has to rely on the u-turn tm or other tms or hms like rock smash for coverage. I soloed whitneys gym using rock smash on hera, and ohko'd every single pokemon without taking a hit (scored a critical on miltank lol, then reset for a more epic battle). Heracross also fares well against chuck and pryces gyms. For stats, Heracross is bulkier and has 15 points more offense than scyther, whose speed advantage is relatively inconsequential. Scyther is powerful and useful with things like false swipe, but it's typing is inferior I don't really see any way in which it is superior to heracross. I suppose if you can evolve it into scizor by getting the metal coat at pokeathlon, they would be more equal, but as it is heracross is a beast, probably even higher than cydaquil and totodile.
Heracross levels up 25% slower than Scyther.
Same with Swinub and Dratini, BTW.
Scyther can also use HMs without completely wasting moveslots. Return and Double Hit are much better, but still, 75 BP Cut isn't bad. Same with 60 BP Rock Smash, especially early-game, the stage of the game in which Scyther is uber (he's not that great after the first half of the game IMO). But I guess Swords Dance lets it play a role late-game too.
Same with Swinub and Dratini, BTW.
Scyther can also use HMs without completely wasting moveslots. Return and Double Hit are much better, but still, 75 BP Cut isn't bad. Same with 60 BP Rock Smash, especially early-game, the stage of the game in which Scyther is uber (he's not that great after the first half of the game IMO). But I guess Swords Dance lets it play a role late-game too.
Notes: Bayleef does very well against Whitney's Miltank, at least compared to other catchable pokemon at the time. Reflect lowers its' Stomp damage by a large amount, making it take nearly five or six turns to KO, and Rollout can be avoided by killing it with Razor Leaf. Synthesis lets it survive everything at least a few times. Assuming it is around level 18, it can kill Whitney with less trouble than the average pokemon.
Of course, this is assuming you are not haxxed to death by Stomp.
Of course, this is assuming you are not haxxed to death by Stomp.
That is just begging to be haxed to death by Attract, given how the game is rigged to make starters male. Machop and Heracross spawn female much more reliably, resist Rollout, and can kill the Miltank with STAB moves.
As for Reflect, it's sold as a TM in Goldenrod these days, so it's not as much of a perk as it used to be.
(We've already had this arguement before... please try to read the previous pages beforehand to avoid rehashing stuff in the future)
As for Reflect, it's sold as a TM in Goldenrod these days, so it's not as much of a perk as it used to be.
(We've already had this arguement before... please try to read the previous pages beforehand to avoid rehashing stuff in the future)
Ok, so allow me to make another case for Dratini being in at least mid. Lower-Mid is just not fair for the little beast.
Dratini being a pure Dragon type - easilly the best typing (in-game at least) means it can not only take the common water, fire, electric and grass attacks which are common, but once it learns either Dragon Rush or Outrage, it will OHKO just about everything you're likelly to encounter. Secondly, Dratini is one of the few Pokemon that you can easilly get a preferred nature for. If you're buying it from Goldenrod, simply save and reset after purchasing it from the Game Corner until obtaining an Adament nature. Similarly, if you wait until getting it from Dragon's Den (with Extremespeed), you can reset for Adament as well. Resetting for a preferred nature only takes roughly 5 minutes at most.
Secondly, Dratini is unparalelled in terms of offensive power. At level 15, it will OHKO just about everything else that is at a similar level. At level 35 (the earliest you should evolve it imho), it gets Dragon Rush,and with a boosting nature, will once again be your new attacking method of choice. Now, you can either keep Dratini from evolving until level 51 (pain in the ass, I know, but it will get Outrage at that level, which when you evolve into Dragonite will KO everything), or evolve it at level 35 into the powerful Dragonair. Dragonair gets a bad rap; its stats are above average, and it has access to Waterfall and a STAB Dragon attack alone, making it quite lethal. If you waited until Dragon's Den to recieve it, then it also has Extremespeed. When it finally evolves into Dragonite, it also gets Fly. In conclusion, Dratini may be a bitch to train, but it seriously pays off.
Dragonite also sweeps Red's team after 1 Dragon Dance with Outrage if you're a sufficient level.
EDIT:
Dratini being a pure Dragon type - easilly the best typing (in-game at least) means it can not only take the common water, fire, electric and grass attacks which are common, but once it learns either Dragon Rush or Outrage, it will OHKO just about everything you're likelly to encounter. Secondly, Dratini is one of the few Pokemon that you can easilly get a preferred nature for. If you're buying it from Goldenrod, simply save and reset after purchasing it from the Game Corner until obtaining an Adament nature. Similarly, if you wait until getting it from Dragon's Den (with Extremespeed), you can reset for Adament as well. Resetting for a preferred nature only takes roughly 5 minutes at most.
Secondly, Dratini is unparalelled in terms of offensive power. At level 15, it will OHKO just about everything else that is at a similar level. At level 35 (the earliest you should evolve it imho), it gets Dragon Rush,and with a boosting nature, will once again be your new attacking method of choice. Now, you can either keep Dratini from evolving until level 51 (pain in the ass, I know, but it will get Outrage at that level, which when you evolve into Dragonite will KO everything), or evolve it at level 35 into the powerful Dragonair. Dragonair gets a bad rap; its stats are above average, and it has access to Waterfall and a STAB Dragon attack alone, making it quite lethal. If you waited until Dragon's Den to recieve it, then it also has Extremespeed. When it finally evolves into Dragonite, it also gets Fly. In conclusion, Dratini may be a bitch to train, but it seriously pays off.
Dragonite also sweeps Red's team after 1 Dragon Dance with Outrage if you're a sufficient level.
EDIT:
Took me roughly an hour and a half of training grinding getting my level 15 Dratini to level 51.
IIRC, dratini takes FOREVER to level. By forever, I mean forever. If you want a dragonair/nite get ready to spend at least 5-10 extra hours solely training it. Without the VS Seeker in this game and considering it was a major bitch even with VS Seeker in FR/LG, that has got to be a major turn off.
What is so great about Dragon Rush? It's a 100 power STAB with 75% accuracy, which is unlikely to "OHKO just about everything," especially since it runs off Dragonair's 84 base attack, which is pretty average compared to most things available at level 35 (which is when Dratini learns Dragon Rush). A STAB Surf is better than a STAB Dragon Rush and it comes 10-15 levels earlier in most cases. Outrage comes at level 51, and Dratini is in the slowest growth tier.
How do you figure? Dragonair's stats are slightly better than Quilava and Croconaw's, and Dragonair never gets to compete with Quilava and Croconaw, because they hit tier 3 evolution before you get Dragonair. (Dragonair, Feraligatr, and Typhlosion all come at level 30, but Dragonair grows slower than the others.) I can't think of any metric of "average" that would leave Dragonair above the median. Lanturn evolves sooner than Dragonair, and has better stats to boot. Dragonair has slightly better base stats than Graveler, but Graveler comes 5 levels earlier, and Graveler will also constantly be several levels ahead of Dragonair due to its faster growth rate; at any given point they will likely have similar stats.
A 80-power non-STAB attack running off a base stat of 84 is hardly "lethal" and putting faith in a 75% accuracy attack will leave you feeling blue a quarter of the time. Even disregarding the bad accuracy, a 100 power STAB running off a 84 base attack stat isn't that impressive (most STAB Surfs are comparable in power).
Looking at the OP, Zubat is still in the high tier--even above Ratatta. I think it belongs much lower. Zubat suffers from many of the problems that Caterpie does (pain to raise for the first few levels, lackluster stats and moves late game) and doesn't carry many of the benefits (powerful attack starting at level 10, 97.5% accurate sleep attack at level 12). I think Naxte's post here makes many good points:
2 Minor things, but I get your point:
1) Yes, I know we discussed it. Just everyone seemed to be commenting on how it could flashstall things, and I can't find a single mention of Synthesis.
2) Heracross is neutral to Rollout.
However, I must admit to your point. There are much better pokemon by that point, Machop mostly, though Heracross is somewhat rare.
I don't think Dratini's getting up to mid again despite what I think about it (Dragon Rage 2KO's a ton of things from badges 3-5 and a decent amount after that because Team Rocket etc. is so amusingly underleveled).
And I don't think this tier list was about "much better things" making something automatically in a low tier, I think we mentioned that. That being said, I found Chikorita to be pulling less than its weight for sure. It's a shame too, because I like the Pokemon, but it's just not good enough.
Zubat, I agree, should drop a tier or two. It's mostly due to it getting really terrible level up moves (and getting it at level 2 without any, compare it to my Dratini example who at least shows up with Dragon Rage to make it easier to train despite the extra experience needed). The only argument I've seen against it that I can't agree with is that when you're getting something this early, happiness evolution isn't too hard to get. I seem to get a Crobat well before level 30 when I ever use it, but it's still not a great choice ingame.
Edit: Are we going to mention Pokewalker in the tier lists at all? I wouldn't count it the same as trading, as it does ship in the same package with the game. It seems kind of wrong not to, and it's not like it's too hard to get some of the early ones since steps add up really quickly if you take it around with you on a normal day (at least it does for me). Murkrow, Kangaskhan, Doduo, Elekid, etc. would get a huge boost out of that and rightfully so if Game Freak decided to hand them over on a silver platter to us.
And I don't think this tier list was about "much better things" making something automatically in a low tier, I think we mentioned that. That being said, I found Chikorita to be pulling less than its weight for sure. It's a shame too, because I like the Pokemon, but it's just not good enough.
Zubat, I agree, should drop a tier or two. It's mostly due to it getting really terrible level up moves (and getting it at level 2 without any, compare it to my Dratini example who at least shows up with Dragon Rage to make it easier to train despite the extra experience needed). The only argument I've seen against it that I can't agree with is that when you're getting something this early, happiness evolution isn't too hard to get. I seem to get a Crobat well before level 30 when I ever use it, but it's still not a great choice ingame.
Edit: Are we going to mention Pokewalker in the tier lists at all? I wouldn't count it the same as trading, as it does ship in the same package with the game. It seems kind of wrong not to, and it's not like it's too hard to get some of the early ones since steps add up really quickly if you take it around with you on a normal day (at least it does for me). Murkrow, Kangaskhan, Doduo, Elekid, etc. would get a huge boost out of that and rightfully so if Game Freak decided to hand them over on a silver platter to us.
I need some help with that. The Pokewalker stuff. Bounce suggestions on where to put them and I'll see if I agree / disagree. Except keep in mind I am doing:
- Murkrow (Pokewalker)
4 tiers later or wherever they will be
- Murkrow
Makes perfect sense.
I'll drop Zubat. Where to see him?
Kuji reflected what I wanted to say with Dratini for the most part. Ditto connoisseur. Nothing I hate more than hype. I hear enough of it in another forum.
- Murkrow (Pokewalker)
4 tiers later or wherever they will be
- Murkrow
Makes perfect sense.
I'll drop Zubat. Where to see him?
Kuji reflected what I wanted to say with Dratini for the most part. Ditto connoisseur. Nothing I hate more than hype. I hear enough of it in another forum.
Reading this alone made me almost throw my desk chair.
That system is fine to me.
Anyway, speaking of Murkrow (Pokewalker), I'd put it in Upper Mid. Early on it's quite amazing, but then around midway through Johto it starts to fall a little down in effectiveness. I wish there was a Dusk Stone pre-Elite Four for more power, but with what we have it's still a good choice, just not great.
I think Jumpman had something on Elekid (Pokewalker) earlier in this thread, and I'd put it in Top for Thunderpunch/Low Kick fun. Later on it doesn't stay in on everything quite as well but it's still the best electric-type you're probably going to get.
Doduo (Pokewalker) seems like it would be in High or Top to me, since it's right in that first course and it has better stats than Spearow/Pidgey/Hoothoot. It still wants help with Rocks and Steels, but basically every Flying-type wants that and with the Water HM's needed every team is probably carrying a Water-type to handle that.
I'll have to think more about other things but I think that's a good start.
Anyway, speaking of Murkrow (Pokewalker), I'd put it in Upper Mid. Early on it's quite amazing, but then around midway through Johto it starts to fall a little down in effectiveness. I wish there was a Dusk Stone pre-Elite Four for more power, but with what we have it's still a good choice, just not great.
I think Jumpman had something on Elekid (Pokewalker) earlier in this thread, and I'd put it in Top for Thunderpunch/Low Kick fun. Later on it doesn't stay in on everything quite as well but it's still the best electric-type you're probably going to get.
Doduo (Pokewalker) seems like it would be in High or Top to me, since it's right in that first course and it has better stats than Spearow/Pidgey/Hoothoot. It still wants help with Rocks and Steels, but basically every Flying-type wants that and with the Water HM's needed every team is probably carrying a Water-type to handle that.
I'll have to think more about other things but I think that's a good start.
I'm mostly a lurker, but I played with some more obscure Pokemon and did fairly well.
Maybe put Zubat a tier down. It can still own things, has typing suited to beating up Team Rocket, and Crobat is a pretty good user of Fly.
If nobody's gonna put cases forward for Natu and Larvitar, I will.
Natu is an amazing Synchroniser. You can get it as soon as Surf is available, and if you have a Modest/Adamant Synchroniser, getting good-natured Pokemon will be far easier. It's not too bad as a support Pokemon. Assuming you get it pretty early (same time as Lapras, for instance), you can evolve it at 25 (it comes at about lv18-22), then raise it to 30 and make it a supporter. It learns Tailwind and Wish naturally, and you can give it screen moves too. I kept Night Shade and poked away at opponents with it. It served an okay purpose in the E4 when I gave it a Choice Scarf and let it throw up an appropriate support move.
Larvitar comes at a fairly low level (17 in the Mountain area of the Safari), but once you get/beat Red Gyara, you can get an Exp Share and whack some trainers about to raise it to a passable level. It suffers from the same faults Dratini does, but the key difference is the level-up moves it gets. It comes with Rock Slide, a very welcome Rock move, as well as Sandstorm, a pseudo-Light Screen for itself. It learns Payback at lv34 (as a Pupitar), which is a consolation for its mediocre speed. I used it successfully in the Mahogany Gym (with the anti-Water berry on it), and normal Trainers without resistance to Rock were broken down quickly. Crunch and Earthquake (useful) come soon after, probably a gym or two into Kanto. It still doesn't really make it great, but once you get Tyranitar, you're basically set. Sand Stream makes Red's Lapras far less annoying. I would put it up a tier to Mid, but that's just me.
Also, Shuckle can be carried around to produce Rare Candies (I think), plus it can probably stomach a hit or two as a sacrifice, even untrained.
Confused/Angry anti-Dratini rant (I used Dratini myself):
Maybe put Zubat a tier down. It can still own things, has typing suited to beating up Team Rocket, and Crobat is a pretty good user of Fly.
If nobody's gonna put cases forward for Natu and Larvitar, I will.
Natu is an amazing Synchroniser. You can get it as soon as Surf is available, and if you have a Modest/Adamant Synchroniser, getting good-natured Pokemon will be far easier. It's not too bad as a support Pokemon. Assuming you get it pretty early (same time as Lapras, for instance), you can evolve it at 25 (it comes at about lv18-22), then raise it to 30 and make it a supporter. It learns Tailwind and Wish naturally, and you can give it screen moves too. I kept Night Shade and poked away at opponents with it. It served an okay purpose in the E4 when I gave it a Choice Scarf and let it throw up an appropriate support move.
Larvitar comes at a fairly low level (17 in the Mountain area of the Safari), but once you get/beat Red Gyara, you can get an Exp Share and whack some trainers about to raise it to a passable level. It suffers from the same faults Dratini does, but the key difference is the level-up moves it gets. It comes with Rock Slide, a very welcome Rock move, as well as Sandstorm, a pseudo-Light Screen for itself. It learns Payback at lv34 (as a Pupitar), which is a consolation for its mediocre speed. I used it successfully in the Mahogany Gym (with the anti-Water berry on it), and normal Trainers without resistance to Rock were broken down quickly. Crunch and Earthquake (useful) come soon after, probably a gym or two into Kanto. It still doesn't really make it great, but once you get Tyranitar, you're basically set. Sand Stream makes Red's Lapras far less annoying. I would put it up a tier to Mid, but that's just me.
Also, Shuckle can be carried around to produce Rare Candies (I think), plus it can probably stomach a hit or two as a sacrifice, even untrained.
Confused/Angry anti-Dratini rant (I used Dratini myself):
With that logic, you can do precisely the same with Synchronise Abra, making any Pokemon with a preferred nature fairly easy to get.
We have to keep Dratini as a basically-useless-except-against-Pokes-twenty-levels-lower pseudo-sweeper?
STAB Dragon is pathetic in-game. Never tried putting Fly on Dragonite.
What did you do, trade it to Diamond, give it a Lucky Egg and chain Chanseys? No way this would ever occur along the course of the game, even post-game it would take at least 2 hours.
Look, I'm not a fan of seeing Synchronise in an argument. Let's keep in mind that Natu has 1/25 chances of obtaining such a ludicrous combination. Not to mention that Tailwind is a rather shaky "support move" in general. Night Shade isn't even much worse than Dragon Rage in comparison. Dragon Rage still out damages Night Shade until Xatu hits Level 41.
I still don't see how Larvitar is Mid Tier. It basically requires that we take half of our EXP away from our other competent Pokemon to make a mediocre version of another. Pupitar is very slow and doesn't have much of an option to boost its Speed without Rock Polish TM. 84 Base Atk is nothing spectacular either, and neither is 65 SpA. To compare: Nidoking has 92 Atk | 85 SpA. It's also in the "Slow" category for EXP gains, much like Dratini, which means it requires more EXP to gain levels than other Pokemon within our party.
To be honest, even though it learns Rock Slide as a decent STAB move, I don't see how Larvitar is even a tier over Dratini. They seem to define Low Mid in general: They're Pokemon with massive costs with minimal returns overall. They arguably hurt the team more than they help, period.
To be fair, at least you didn't over blow Larvitar.
I still don't see how Larvitar is Mid Tier. It basically requires that we take half of our EXP away from our other competent Pokemon to make a mediocre version of another. Pupitar is very slow and doesn't have much of an option to boost its Speed without Rock Polish TM. 84 Base Atk is nothing spectacular either, and neither is 65 SpA. To compare: Nidoking has 92 Atk | 85 SpA. It's also in the "Slow" category for EXP gains, much like Dratini, which means it requires more EXP to gain levels than other Pokemon within our party.
To be honest, even though it learns Rock Slide as a decent STAB move, I don't see how Larvitar is even a tier over Dratini. They seem to define Low Mid in general: They're Pokemon with massive costs with minimal returns overall. They arguably hurt the team more than they help, period.
To be fair, at least you didn't over blow Larvitar.
Okay I think the Dratini argument is over. I wish it was a tier higher but I know it's not going to happen so I'm moving on.
Anyway, these I haven't tested personally but having given it some thought I have some more Pokewalker ones.
Magby (Pokewalker): Upper-Mid. You get it on an early course (rugged road) and though you might have to reset for it, the steps don't go away after one day so you can just take it out and put it back in after you get the needed 5,000 steps if Magby doesn't show up. It comes at Level 9 with Sunny Day and Ember, gets Faint Attack to help at level 16, and at level 28 gets a good Fire Punch just before evolving at 30. It should have Lava Plume as Magmar before the Elite Four as well.
Machop (Pokewalker): Top. 50 watts and 1,000 steps to get a great Fighting-type with Low Kick at level 7? I'll take that. It does everything the normal Machop does, plus takes out things on Union Cave and all the random kids with those annoying Rattata. It'll probably be a few levels higher than the traded Machop by Goldenrod, though I know it will even out pretty quick there. I think getting it earlier is just enough to make it to Top, though I'm not going to complain if this one doesn't get bumped up.
Kangaskhan (Pokewalker): Uber. Seriously, what were they thinking? Level 8 Kangaskhan on the first route with Fake Out and Comet Punch and a 50% chance after 3,000 steps to find it? (that's assuming you got the right side, otherwise, again, just reset and in a few minutes you should be able to try again) Even if it takes a few tries it's beyond worth it, as it gets Bite at level 13 (This thing doesn't need Scrappy too much), Mega Punch at level 19, Dizzy Punch at level 25, and Crunch at level 31. It can even Outrage on Lance (and maybe even Clair) at level 37 if you're into that. It's the best thing against Kingdra you'll probably ever see at least. I think this thing might end up being the most broken of the bunch.
I'll have to think about some of the other early ones still.
Anyway, these I haven't tested personally but having given it some thought I have some more Pokewalker ones.
Magby (Pokewalker): Upper-Mid. You get it on an early course (rugged road) and though you might have to reset for it, the steps don't go away after one day so you can just take it out and put it back in after you get the needed 5,000 steps if Magby doesn't show up. It comes at Level 9 with Sunny Day and Ember, gets Faint Attack to help at level 16, and at level 28 gets a good Fire Punch just before evolving at 30. It should have Lava Plume as Magmar before the Elite Four as well.
Machop (Pokewalker): Top. 50 watts and 1,000 steps to get a great Fighting-type with Low Kick at level 7? I'll take that. It does everything the normal Machop does, plus takes out things on Union Cave and all the random kids with those annoying Rattata. It'll probably be a few levels higher than the traded Machop by Goldenrod, though I know it will even out pretty quick there. I think getting it earlier is just enough to make it to Top, though I'm not going to complain if this one doesn't get bumped up.
Kangaskhan (Pokewalker): Uber. Seriously, what were they thinking? Level 8 Kangaskhan on the first route with Fake Out and Comet Punch and a 50% chance after 3,000 steps to find it? (that's assuming you got the right side, otherwise, again, just reset and in a few minutes you should be able to try again) Even if it takes a few tries it's beyond worth it, as it gets Bite at level 13 (This thing doesn't need Scrappy too much), Mega Punch at level 19, Dizzy Punch at level 25, and Crunch at level 31. It can even Outrage on Lance (and maybe even Clair) at level 37 if you're into that. It's the best thing against Kingdra you'll probably ever see at least. I think this thing might end up being the most broken of the bunch.
I'll have to think about some of the other early ones still.
I just finished my Pokewalker (and HM whore)-only (past the Pokemon League) run and I have some things to note:
Kangaskhan is an absolute rapist. Uber material, way more useful than any starter. I have no idea WHY anyone decided to put this thing in the very first route, but it's way too OP. After catching it and releasing my starter, it proceeded to kill EVERYTHING in its path with Fake Out + Comet Punch. Also, it's incredibly bulky. Already 36 HP at level 8? Yes. Having it raise 3 or 4 HP every single level up? YES.
It also gets a few moves worthy of mention:
Headbutt in Ilex Forest: A base 70 STAB attack (+ flinch) running off of a powerful base 95 attack right after beating Bugsy? Hell yeah. You get Dizzy Punch at level 25 and it can replace Headbutt, if that's your thing too.
Bite at level 13: Having Bite allows it to decimate Morty. Hypnosis? Not a problem with Early Bird. Morty's Gengar has a weak Sucker Punch (did only around 10-20 damage) and Shadow Ball doesn't do shit :P Kangaskhan also gets the stronger Crunch at level 31, allowing it to beat Will pretty easily.
Outrage at level 37: Christ, really? This enables 'khan to practically solo the final gym (barring the trainers with Horsea/Seadra and Gyarados, but won't you have an electric Pokemon already?). +0 Outrage is a 2HKO on Kingdra. You also have access to both Tail Whip an Leer so use those a few times if you're worried.
Avalanche (TM): In my experience, Outrage does NOT OHKO Lance's dragons (I was lvl 42 when I beat the Elite 4). Kangaskhan's natural bulk (105/80/80; not bad at all) helps it survive both the lvl 50 Outrage and the lvl 49 Outrages at ease and hitting back with a base 120 4x SE attack is a nearly guaranteed 1HKO.
Also, catching two of these is also pretty awesome. Your 2nd can make a really nice HM Whore. It can learn Cut, Strength, Surf, Rock Smash, Whirlpool, and Rock Climb (but that's not particularly useful).
Incredibly useful early game, still retains very good usefulness late game. Either Top or Uber, IMO.
Kangaskhan is an absolute rapist. Uber material, way more useful than any starter. I have no idea WHY anyone decided to put this thing in the very first route, but it's way too OP. After catching it and releasing my starter, it proceeded to kill EVERYTHING in its path with Fake Out + Comet Punch. Also, it's incredibly bulky. Already 36 HP at level 8? Yes. Having it raise 3 or 4 HP every single level up? YES.
It also gets a few moves worthy of mention:
Headbutt in Ilex Forest: A base 70 STAB attack (+ flinch) running off of a powerful base 95 attack right after beating Bugsy? Hell yeah. You get Dizzy Punch at level 25 and it can replace Headbutt, if that's your thing too.
Bite at level 13: Having Bite allows it to decimate Morty. Hypnosis? Not a problem with Early Bird. Morty's Gengar has a weak Sucker Punch (did only around 10-20 damage) and Shadow Ball doesn't do shit :P Kangaskhan also gets the stronger Crunch at level 31, allowing it to beat Will pretty easily.
Outrage at level 37: Christ, really? This enables 'khan to practically solo the final gym (barring the trainers with Horsea/Seadra and Gyarados, but won't you have an electric Pokemon already?). +0 Outrage is a 2HKO on Kingdra. You also have access to both Tail Whip an Leer so use those a few times if you're worried.
Avalanche (TM): In my experience, Outrage does NOT OHKO Lance's dragons (I was lvl 42 when I beat the Elite 4). Kangaskhan's natural bulk (105/80/80; not bad at all) helps it survive both the lvl 50 Outrage and the lvl 49 Outrages at ease and hitting back with a base 120 4x SE attack is a nearly guaranteed 1HKO.
Also, catching two of these is also pretty awesome. Your 2nd can make a really nice HM Whore. It can learn Cut, Strength, Surf, Rock Smash, Whirlpool, and Rock Climb (but that's not particularly useful).
Incredibly useful early game, still retains very good usefulness late game. Either Top or Uber, IMO.
I honestly don't see why Mr. Mime is in the High section. It's not that strong for a Psychic type (although it does get some good support moves), doesn't appear until after the 5th Gym (It can't even be found on the Pokewalker -.-) and factoring the TM competition in the game, Mr Mime has an amazing offensive moveset of... Psychic (at level 39) and Magical Leaf(Which you need a Heart Scale for). Why place Natu so low and Mr. Mime so high, when Natu can not only be found before it, but is far easier to find, comes at a higher level AND can sustain itself with Night Shade for a bit? Granted, Xatu isn't exactly good, but I feel that the gap between the two is FAR too high, especially since Natu is easier to find and raise. I believe for this, Natu should be slightly raised (not by much) and Mr Mime dropped (by a considerable margin).
Otherwise, this list was great to read, and very much agreeable in most areas.
EDIT: I also think Voltorb should be moved down by quite a lot. It has HORRIBLE stats barring speed, meaning you won't be able to kill much at all, even if you explode. To add on to this, it can't be found until Rocket HQ (Where it is at a very low level anyways. On top of THAT, you can also find Electrode in there, not that it means much) and its level up moveset is BALLS. It shouldn't be anywhere near Magnemite on the list, moved down to Low at the very least.
Otherwise, this list was great to read, and very much agreeable in most areas.
EDIT: I also think Voltorb should be moved down by quite a lot. It has HORRIBLE stats barring speed, meaning you won't be able to kill much at all, even if you explode. To add on to this, it can't be found until Rocket HQ (Where it is at a very low level anyways. On top of THAT, you can also find Electrode in there, not that it means much) and its level up moveset is BALLS. It shouldn't be anywhere near Magnemite on the list, moved down to Low at the very least.
Stantler needs to have more consideration in his way. He gets Hypnosis extremely early on, STAB Stomp with a relatively high flinch rate, complete resistance to Shadow Ball (useful against Morty, where it may be one of the first signs of trouble for your starter), Zen Headbutt (again, Flinch, and Psychic has very good in-game coverage), and is a good candidate for Shadow Ball. I used only Meganium and Stantler and breezed through the game until level 40, where I got some more Pokemon.
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