I say Giga drain due to the healing. Air slash you are too slow to take advantage of the secondary effect too often
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Pokémon Celesteela
- Thread starter Terrakion.
- Start date
- Status
Does Automize really not halve weight? I've seen conflicting things on this many times. What if a Pokemon less than 100 kg uses it?
The floor is 0.1 kg, or 0.2 lbs.
Celesteela @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Def / 40 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Fire Blast
- Seed Bomb
- Earthquake
This is my own custom set, and I must say, it's doing extremely well.
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Def / 40 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Fire Blast
- Seed Bomb
- Earthquake
This is my own custom set, and I must say, it's doing extremely well.
What exactly does that EV spread allow it to live? Why are you running an Adamant nature with a special scaling move?
Running mixed often means giving up one of the defenses where speed is concerned, but Celesteela's solid mixed bulk is one of its strongest points so you don't want to mess with that. Speed is only a factor when building if you want to run Autotomize so when you aren't running it, you may as well assume at 61 base speed, it's going to go second. This way, as some people have chosen to do, you can sacrifice it in order to run a mixed set without sacrificing either damage or bulk on either side.
I find stall sets that run protect + leech seed + leftovers incredibly boring. They work there's no doubt about that, but my goodness does it put me to sleep. A number of the sets brought up in this thread take much better advantage of the fact that it can easily just carry four attacks and simply act as a dedicated attacker whose typing and stat bulk allow it to be not just a wall, but a legitimate threat the enemy is forced to use their hardest hitting banded/choiced terrain boosted hitters to deal with.
The threat of mixed, the threat of a decent move pool should not be underestimated. That's why I love the builds that dedicate her more as an all out attacker. You've got potential Steel, Flying, Grass, Ground, Fire, and Rock coverage so when you dedicate half your move slots to stalling it feels like such a waste. The fact that Celesteela can both take blows and actually hit back with solid power behind them should not be overlooked.
People likely wouldn't mind this generation being so slow if more Pokémon had the great typing, solid bulk, and offenses of Celesteela. Alas.
Running mixed often means giving up one of the defenses where speed is concerned, but Celesteela's solid mixed bulk is one of its strongest points so you don't want to mess with that. Speed is only a factor when building if you want to run Autotomize so when you aren't running it, you may as well assume at 61 base speed, it's going to go second. This way, as some people have chosen to do, you can sacrifice it in order to run a mixed set without sacrificing either damage or bulk on either side.
I find stall sets that run protect + leech seed + leftovers incredibly boring. They work there's no doubt about that, but my goodness does it put me to sleep. A number of the sets brought up in this thread take much better advantage of the fact that it can easily just carry four attacks and simply act as a dedicated attacker whose typing and stat bulk allow it to be not just a wall, but a legitimate threat the enemy is forced to use their hardest hitting banded/choiced terrain boosted hitters to deal with.
The threat of mixed, the threat of a decent move pool should not be underestimated. That's why I love the builds that dedicate her more as an all out attacker. You've got potential Steel, Flying, Grass, Ground, Fire, and Rock coverage so when you dedicate half your move slots to stalling it feels like such a waste. The fact that Celesteela can both take blows and actually hit back with solid power behind them should not be overlooked.
People likely wouldn't mind this generation being so slow if more Pokémon had the great typing, solid bulk, and offenses of Celesteela. Alas.
I agree with a stall set of leech protect leftovers is boreing. I myself amy going for a mix of stall and mixed damage, Mainly because I want a second poison setter to assist with my Toxapex.
Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 92 Def / 168 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Leech Seed
- Flamethrower
- Toxic
I posted it early but I feel like its my favorite set for the team she is on. Leech seed and toxic are a lot of residual damage, and having someone else set up for my Merciless Toxapex(which since its a planned VGC team I feel is better then Regenerator, which shines more for singles). Heavy slam is just great on her, and Flamethrower gives her some coverage for anyone that resists heavy slam, plus while it doesn't hurt as much as EQ on Magnizone, it won't like switching into it.
Another set I love is an assault vest mixed set. Sadly it doesn't fit for my team but its probably tied as my favorite. For this one though the moves stay the same you could run her multiple ways stat wise
Celesteela @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD | EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD | EVs: 248 HP / 92 Def / 168 SpD
Brave Nature | Quiet Nature | Sassy Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Flamethrower
- Giga Drain
The natures and EVS can change depending on what you want her to be and what stat you want to increase via Beast boost. Want your physical damage to go up? what your special damage to go up? Want to be a better spec tank? Its a very unpredictable set stat wise and no would would know how to best attack you till you get that boost. I prefer Giga Drain over Flying stab for the healing just to keep you going longer
I just wanted to throw in my two cents, and echo an earlier comment about a physical set; Flame Charge does less damage than Flamethrower, but it frees up space for another coverage move, which can be useful, but you can always run Autotomize with a physical set anyway, the two aren't mutually exclusive.
Jolly 252 Spe +1 Celesteela (barely) outspeeds scarf Magnezone, or at least I think it does, and Flame Charge pops balloons, so EQ can clean up easily. Mega-Scizor barely outspeeds Celesteela anyway, so +1 will guarantee it will move faster
252 Atk Celesteela Flame Charge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Scizor-Mega: 136-164 (48.3 - 58.3%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Celesteela Flame Charge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Scizor-Mega: 136-164 (48.3 - 58.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
And bullet punch does negligible damage, anyway
252+ Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Celesteela: 59-69 (17.6 - 20.5%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
It's maybe not the most reliable, but in theory I don't see why it wouldn't work.
Likewise, an Autotomize physical set should still be viable imo, although you don't get leftovers recovery if you want to run Acrobatics, unfortunately.
Jolly Celesteela actually outspeeds a lot of relevant switch-ins even without a +1 so the physical set seems to actually rely on +Atk Beast Boosts to sweep more than speed, at least from the calcs I've done so far.
252 Atk Celesteela Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Zapdos: 158-188 (41.1 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Physical Sweeper
Celesteela
Ability: Beast Boost
Nature: Jolly
Item: Leftovers/Nothing
-Earthquake
-Heavy Slam/Iron Head
-Flame Charge/Autotomize
-Seed Bomb/Stone Edge/Acrobatics/Smack Down
Seed Bomb hits Ground and Water types, Stone Edge hits flying and levitating pokes, and Acrobatics hits fighting types. Smack Down threatens a lot of flying/levitate pokes with a guaranteed EQ follow-up, which actually might be pretty strong now that I think about it.
Jolly 252 Spe +1 Celesteela (barely) outspeeds scarf Magnezone, or at least I think it does, and Flame Charge pops balloons, so EQ can clean up easily. Mega-Scizor barely outspeeds Celesteela anyway, so +1 will guarantee it will move faster
252 Atk Celesteela Flame Charge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Scizor-Mega: 136-164 (48.3 - 58.3%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Celesteela Flame Charge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Scizor-Mega: 136-164 (48.3 - 58.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
And bullet punch does negligible damage, anyway
252+ Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Celesteela: 59-69 (17.6 - 20.5%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
It's maybe not the most reliable, but in theory I don't see why it wouldn't work.
Likewise, an Autotomize physical set should still be viable imo, although you don't get leftovers recovery if you want to run Acrobatics, unfortunately.
Jolly Celesteela actually outspeeds a lot of relevant switch-ins even without a +1 so the physical set seems to actually rely on +Atk Beast Boosts to sweep more than speed, at least from the calcs I've done so far.
252 Atk Celesteela Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Zapdos: 158-188 (41.1 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Physical Sweeper
Celesteela
Ability: Beast Boost
Nature: Jolly
Item: Leftovers/Nothing
-Earthquake
-Heavy Slam/Iron Head
-Flame Charge/Autotomize
-Seed Bomb/Stone Edge/Acrobatics/Smack Down
Seed Bomb hits Ground and Water types, Stone Edge hits flying and levitating pokes, and Acrobatics hits fighting types. Smack Down threatens a lot of flying/levitate pokes with a guaranteed EQ follow-up, which actually might be pretty strong now that I think about it.
Last edited:
Honestly, if your only special move is Flamethrower or Fire Blast, a nature that drops Special Attack is going to be fine because Celesteela will still hit those targets hard enough. Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Kartana will all fry, and I'm pretty sure physically defensive Skarmory is taken care of too.
Cheryl.
Celesteela is Life
So I've been wanting to build a team around LO Autotomize Celesteela, and I'm trying to decide which nature would be best. I'm thinking Adamant would be the best nature for this set, because it gives you a nice boost of extra power, but are there any important mons/Scarfers that a Jolly nature would be able to outspeed?
There's also a lot of stuff that it outspeeds with just +1
+2 outspeeds just about everything relevant, imo. A-Dugtrio, Scarf Genesect, Jolly Pheromosa, Garchomp, +1 Gyarados, etc. Most anything is going to get outsped by 486 speed.
Adamant +2 puts Celesteela at 442 speed, which I think still outspeeds everything I mentioned above. It actually outspeeds Jolly Pheromosa by 1 point, which is kind of incredible lmao.
Again, I don't know a lot of the relevant mons for the current meta, but I imagine that anything that can outspeed Celesteela +2 isn't going to be able to OHKO or live an attack, unless you predict poorly or something, and even then.
I think Adamant vs Jolly is most important before you get set up, rather than after. Or if your opponent is setting up also, or already set up. I'd love to be wrong, though, I still have a lot to learn.
*Actually, I just remembered I have this bookmarked. That should give you all the relevant speed numbers.
Basically, Adamant +2 outspeeds everything with no boosts (which I guess is only marginally impressive) and some sets w/ boosts, while Jolly outspeeds about 15 common sets with boosts that Adamant does not, and a lot of those things are Charizard, Lando-T, Porygon, Kyurem variants, etc, i.e. things you probably don't want to switch in to/set up on in the first place. So if they've already got boosts you're probably doing something wrong, imo.
I'm glad it's actually not that significant because I settled for an Adamant Celesteela in my game (since it was literally the first nature that I caught) and I've had the opportunity to get both a Modest and a Jolly variant since then, but I don't want to double up too much. That's less relevant in a sim, though.
Last edited:
Here's the offensive set I've been using:
Celesteela @ Wacan Berry
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Autotomize
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
252 speed EVs allows it to outspeed threats like scarf Xurkitree, Pheromosa, scarf Heatran, and modest Magnezone after an autotomize. Wacan berry exists to act as a lure; it gives Celesteela enough bulk to survive one thunderbolt and fire off an earthquake for the kill. Stone edge is for the surprise hit on flying types; it prevents Celesteela from being walled by Pokemon like Charizard and Pelipper, plus it OHKOs Mega Pinsir which is nice.
Fire blast is really not missed on this set as Earthquake and Wacan handle offensive steels well enough. And besides, your opponent may think you have fire blast even if you don't, so it's not like they'll switch in their Scizor or Ferrothorn every time Celesteela comes out.
Celesteela @ Wacan Berry
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Autotomize
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
252 speed EVs allows it to outspeed threats like scarf Xurkitree, Pheromosa, scarf Heatran, and modest Magnezone after an autotomize. Wacan berry exists to act as a lure; it gives Celesteela enough bulk to survive one thunderbolt and fire off an earthquake for the kill. Stone edge is for the surprise hit on flying types; it prevents Celesteela from being walled by Pokemon like Charizard and Pelipper, plus it OHKOs Mega Pinsir which is nice.
Fire blast is really not missed on this set as Earthquake and Wacan handle offensive steels well enough. And besides, your opponent may think you have fire blast even if you don't, so it's not like they'll switch in their Scizor or Ferrothorn every time Celesteela comes out.
Last edited:
252+ Atk Celesteela Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pinsir-Mega: 284-336 (104.7 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Celesteela Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pinsir-Mega: 344-408 (126.9 - 150.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Celesteela Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 100+ Def Charizard-Mega-X: 127-150 (35.3 - 41.7%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Celesteela Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 100+ Def Charizard-Mega-X: 154-182 (42.8 - 50.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Celesteela Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 204-241 (68.6 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Celesteela Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 496-584 (167 - 196.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Celesteela Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 120-142 (37 - 43.8%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Celesteela Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 146-172 (45 - 53%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Celesteela Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 48 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 348-410 (95.8 - 112.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Celesteela Stone Edge vs. 48 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 53-62 (14.6 - 17%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Celesteela Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Heracross-Mega: 588-696 (162.8 - 192.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Celesteela Stone Edge vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Heracross-Mega: 90-106 (24.9 - 29.3%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Take this as you will, I'm probably missing a crucial match-up here, but it looks like Acrobatics could be a competitive alternative over Stone Edge, at least in some circumstances..
IMO, and this is only slightly off topic, the real decision you have to make between running a SpA variant vs an Atk variant concerns the STAB flying coverage that SpA Celesteela can get while holding an item. Atk Celesteela either has to run no item or run something less accurate. That being said, SpA Celesteela's moveset generally has slightly less power, so that's also something to consider.
252+ Atk Celesteela Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pinsir-Mega: 344-408 (126.9 - 150.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Celesteela Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 100+ Def Charizard-Mega-X: 127-150 (35.3 - 41.7%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Celesteela Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 100+ Def Charizard-Mega-X: 154-182 (42.8 - 50.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Celesteela Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 204-241 (68.6 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Celesteela Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 496-584 (167 - 196.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Celesteela Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 120-142 (37 - 43.8%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Celesteela Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 146-172 (45 - 53%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Celesteela Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 48 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 348-410 (95.8 - 112.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Celesteela Stone Edge vs. 48 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 53-62 (14.6 - 17%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Celesteela Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Heracross-Mega: 588-696 (162.8 - 192.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Celesteela Stone Edge vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Heracross-Mega: 90-106 (24.9 - 29.3%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Take this as you will, I'm probably missing a crucial match-up here, but it looks like Acrobatics could be a competitive alternative over Stone Edge, at least in some circumstances..
IMO, and this is only slightly off topic, the real decision you have to make between running a SpA variant vs an Atk variant concerns the STAB flying coverage that SpA Celesteela can get while holding an item. Atk Celesteela either has to run no item or run something less accurate. That being said, SpA Celesteela's moveset generally has slightly less power, so that's also something to consider.
Hello! New to Ubers. On your Sassy sets, what does the spread of defensive EVs protect against? the 248/92/168?
The miniscule number difference are probably not relevant, but I've seen people throw around varying spreads in close proximity: 248 HP / 100 Def / 160 SpD, for example.
Thank you!
EDIT: Also if anybody can help me decide on this... I would like to know if a NON-AUTOTOMIZE (maybe a Choice set) Celesteela would use either Adamant or Jolly? And if so, Choice Band or Choice Scarf? I wanna benefit from them Heavy Slams, so I'm thinking Adamant/Band, but it might be overkill...
Last edited:
Adamant puts you at 221 speed, Jolly puts you at 243. Jolly outspeeds Tyrantrum, Garchomp, Aegislash, Bewear, Inceneroar, Magnezone, Bisharp, Breloom, Metagross, Volcanion, Celebi, Jirachi, Manaphy, Mew, Zapdos... *deep breath* Magearna, Crawdaunt, Omastar, Scizor (Mega), Tapu Bulu, Landorus-T, Rotom-Wash, Mandibuzz, Venusaur, and Tyranitar variants. Adamant gets outsped by all of those, and speed ties with Tyranitar. And that's only with no boosts.
A lot of those are pretty scary.
Obviously, scarf is going to change these numbers, but for Adamant/Band specifically, you have to decide whether it's worth being slower than Volcanion, Zapdos, Inceneroar, Magnezone, etc. If I'm not mistaken, a lot of those pokes have the potential to OHKO a non Def/SpD invested Celesteela.
68 SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Celesteela: 248-294 (73.8 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Celesteela: 480-566 (142.8 - 168.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Celesteela Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Zapdos: 78-93 (20.3 - 24.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Celesteela Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Magnezone: 40-47 (14.2 - 16.7%) -- possible 6HKO
Just to give an example.
252 Atk Choice Band Celesteela Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Magnezone: 54-64 (19.2 - 22.7%) -- possible 5HKO
However, all that being said, if even Adamant/Band has a hard time OHKOing these pokes, I don't think outspeeding them is necessarily going to solve the problem, considering they can just OHKO Celesteela in revenge.
252 Atk Incineroar Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Celesteela: 354-416 (105.3 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Flamethrower vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Celesteela: 480-566 (142.8 - 168.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
vs.
252+ Atk Choice Band Celesteela Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Incineroar: 328-388 (98.7 - 116.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Celesteela Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 258-304 (85.4 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
So those pokes are scary but Celesteela might just not want to stay in on them either way, all things considered. Also, Celesteela outspeeds a lot of relevant mons either way, so it's kind of up to you to play around which ever set you choose to go with.
Last edited:
I don't have the calculations on me but I know it lets you survive some strong attacks Like some of the numbers above she would have been able to survive with those the HP and defensive investments.
I know the popular sets tend to be leech seed and specially defensive, which is a pretty good set, but I don't think we can ignore an automize set.
Heavy Slam / Earthquake / Seed Bomb (Flamethrower) is a really good as it has tons of set up opportunities, resists bullet punch and extreme speed and has good enough bulk to take a priority hit if needed. Seems to work well against Tapu Lele + Mega-Zam teams.
But best of all I think is that with an Adamant nature, it hits 442 speed at +2, which is one point above Pheromosa, which is huge imo.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-491255948
Heavy Slam / Earthquake / Seed Bomb (Flamethrower) is a really good as it has tons of set up opportunities, resists bullet punch and extreme speed and has good enough bulk to take a priority hit if needed. Seems to work well against Tapu Lele + Mega-Zam teams.
But best of all I think is that with an Adamant nature, it hits 442 speed at +2, which is one point above Pheromosa, which is huge imo.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-491255948
Hi there. This might be a little late but what Nature do you run with this set?
I'm not sure why people keep acting as if Automize isn't posted as a set in the OP. Personally I really like the special Automize set. Sure, you can't touch Heatran, but the trade-off of having a reliable Flying STAB in Air Slash while holding Life Orb or Leftovers is a godsend, especially with that 30% chance to flinch. Also, luring physical walls in trying to tank a Heavy Slam and/or burn Celesteela is a huge plus too that can get the balling rolling with a Beast Boost.
Maybe Giga Drain in the first slot to have some sort of recovery option at least, move the Defense EVs to HP, and most of the SDef to SpA to make use of the Modest nature and hit hard. Seems like a solid idea for AV, but I think its setup and utility moves are too good to go unused.
New to the competitive scene, right now I'm trying to decide which natures to catch for Celesteela. I wanted to go for a more defensive build for one and I've seen some of the Sassy builds, which I guess might be better than Careful so you're not sacrificing any special attack but is the sacrifice to speed worth it either? Like obviously Celesteela isn't going to outspeed alot of Mons without serious investment anyway but would picking a nature that further slows Celesteela down put it at risk of being taken down by heavy hitters with a fire-type move or is that just a risk regardless? Sorry just really scratching my head on what nature to invest in.
252 SpA Heatran Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 258-306 (64.8 - 76.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(Skarmory as a stand-in for Celesteela) As you can see, only the strongest STAB Fire attacks are going to OHKO in the special side. There is too little that runs electric/fire as physical coverage so you should be alright with a speed negative nature.
As I said previously, defensive sets (or really any with a Fire move as the only special attack) should probably just use Careful because you're not losing any OHKOs/2HKOs on everything that is hit harder with Flamethrower/Fire Blast. The 61 Speed is actually pretty useful, since you outspeed uninvested base 55s and 60s (like non-Mega Scizor and Clefable) that you wouldn't with Sassy.
Doesn't Scizor have base 65 speed? You have to invest some EV in Careful Celesteela's speed to be faster than Scizor.
Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Heavy Slam
- Stone Edge
- Autotomize
This set works really well for me and I really think it should be on the first page somewhere. Stone Edge is my preferred option for hitting water/bugs and flying guys that resist Heavy Slam (Gyarados, Mantine, etc...). People really underestimate this guy. I prefer Leftovers over Life Orb since Celesteela has such great typing and bulk. Adamant lets you outspeed everything un-boosted so you only lose to Choice Scarf but unless its super effective you'll likely KO back. Heavy Slam is ridiculously good with Fairies everywhere.
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Heavy Slam
- Stone Edge
- Autotomize
This set works really well for me and I really think it should be on the first page somewhere. Stone Edge is my preferred option for hitting water/bugs and flying guys that resist Heavy Slam (Gyarados, Mantine, etc...). People really underestimate this guy. I prefer Leftovers over Life Orb since Celesteela has such great typing and bulk. Adamant lets you outspeed everything un-boosted so you only lose to Choice Scarf but unless its super effective you'll likely KO back. Heavy Slam is ridiculously good with Fairies everywhere.
This is true, I had a moment where I was thinking it was 60. 36 EVs would be all you need to creep base 65, though. Clefable is the more notable of the two anyway. Creeping Azu is kind of a big deal too.
- Status