i am using a similar set, instead of flame charge im goin with autotomize and adamant(only a few mons are going to be hit less harder with heavy slam) and using a sitrus berry to help with the set up, it's really good against offense teams.
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Pokémon Celesteela
- Thread starter Terrakion.
- Start date
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This thing actually counters Lando-I. Between its bulk, leech seed, protect, and Focus Blast's accuracy, Lando-I can never beat this thing.
Hello everyone!
I recently came back to playing Pokemon Showdown so that I can try out Celesteela and its absurd bulk. This is a >1100 battle, but I would like to share my experiences here.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-482278465
This was the set I used:
Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 80 Def / 172 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Leech Seed
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower
- Protect
I recently came back to playing Pokemon Showdown so that I can try out Celesteela and its absurd bulk. This is a >1100 battle, but I would like to share my experiences here.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-482278465
This was the set I used:
Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 80 Def / 172 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Leech Seed
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower
- Protect
What does the 80/172 split cover for calcs? I think a mixed defensive set is better than the one I'm running (max spdef), but I wasn't exactly sure how to distribute stats because the meta is so young.
Flamethrower as a lure is pretty amazing, yep. But I like it better with maximum SpAtk investment and a Modest Nature as you can secure OTKs on the extremely common Steel types in the format.
I'm using it with Flash Cannon opposed to Heavy Slam as with the SpAtk investment it ends up making overall more damage, and thanks to the positive nature you can OHKO defensive versions of Scizor. A case can be made for Fire Blast as it cleanly 2HKOes Aegislash even on its more defensive versions, though. Flamethrower makes that 2HKO into a 3HKO. However, I'm expecting Aegislash getting banned so the choice of Fire Blast may end up being irrelevant soon as Flamethrower 2HKOes every other Steel type in the format
I'm using it with Flash Cannon opposed to Heavy Slam as with the SpAtk investment it ends up making overall more damage, and thanks to the positive nature you can OHKO defensive versions of Scizor. A case can be made for Fire Blast as it cleanly 2HKOes Aegislash even on its more defensive versions, though. Flamethrower makes that 2HKO into a 3HKO. However, I'm expecting Aegislash getting banned so the choice of Fire Blast may end up being irrelevant soon as Flamethrower 2HKOes every other Steel type in the format
Holy shit this Pokemon is annoying.
Not "haha that's kind of annoying" but more like "get me out of this fucking game" annoying.
Top tier typing, Leech Seed, bulk and ability to just no-sell Grass-types make it incredibly difficult to play around. And it switches into so many Pokemon, even in this clusterfuck of a metagame (imagine how amazing it will be once Pokemon start catching bans). It has checks obviously, but even if they can get around Heavy Slam/Fire move, they're always taking Leech Seed damage (which really starts to add up at some point). Annoying!
Really the only thing it has going for it is that Kaguya-hime motif.
Not "haha that's kind of annoying" but more like "get me out of this fucking game" annoying.
Top tier typing, Leech Seed, bulk and ability to just no-sell Grass-types make it incredibly difficult to play around. And it switches into so many Pokemon, even in this clusterfuck of a metagame (imagine how amazing it will be once Pokemon start catching bans). It has checks obviously, but even if they can get around Heavy Slam/Fire move, they're always taking Leech Seed damage (which really starts to add up at some point). Annoying!
Really the only thing it has going for it is that Kaguya-hime motif.
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Hey folks
This is easily my favorite Ultra Beast. It has the most balanced, usable, and arguably normal distribution compared to its fellows, with the lowest stat being a workable 61 speed. It's pretty much the only UB that can take a hit from either a physical or a special attack and recover effectively. Those defensive stats are a godsend, not to mention its remarkable typing. It even has offensive potential; a 107 SpAtt is nothing to sneeze at (which combined with those defensive stats brings to mind another OU staple *cough* *Rotom-W* *cough*), and it's blessed with a movepool that wouldn't look out of place on a fast special sweeper.
However, I personally didn't opt for special offense or defense when I used her in the early days of the new gen. It seems like an affront to Celesteela's design not to take advantage of its unrivaled weight combined with a 101 attack, that mind you can be boosted, and Heavy Slam. My physically offensive set, with Heavy Slam, Earthquake, Seed Bomb/Flame Charge, and Leech Seed, allowed me to win several battles with her alone, or simply as the core.
Admittedly an unexpected flamethrower or thunderbolt would put her out of commission, but the general ability of Celesteela to absorb hits (and health) made her a veritable tank with little defensive investment outside of HP. Additionally, with the correct teammates, those weaknesses can be mitigated somewhat. A Landorus-T, Celesteela, Rotom-W combo is a threat to behold.
So, yeah, I think Celesteela is definitely going to be an OU powerhouse, and whether the user wants to make her a hard-hitter or a hit-taker is up to them.
Oh by the way this is my first post so hi!
This is easily my favorite Ultra Beast. It has the most balanced, usable, and arguably normal distribution compared to its fellows, with the lowest stat being a workable 61 speed. It's pretty much the only UB that can take a hit from either a physical or a special attack and recover effectively. Those defensive stats are a godsend, not to mention its remarkable typing. It even has offensive potential; a 107 SpAtt is nothing to sneeze at (which combined with those defensive stats brings to mind another OU staple *cough* *Rotom-W* *cough*), and it's blessed with a movepool that wouldn't look out of place on a fast special sweeper.
However, I personally didn't opt for special offense or defense when I used her in the early days of the new gen. It seems like an affront to Celesteela's design not to take advantage of its unrivaled weight combined with a 101 attack, that mind you can be boosted, and Heavy Slam. My physically offensive set, with Heavy Slam, Earthquake, Seed Bomb/Flame Charge, and Leech Seed, allowed me to win several battles with her alone, or simply as the core.
Admittedly an unexpected flamethrower or thunderbolt would put her out of commission, but the general ability of Celesteela to absorb hits (and health) made her a veritable tank with little defensive investment outside of HP. Additionally, with the correct teammates, those weaknesses can be mitigated somewhat. A Landorus-T, Celesteela, Rotom-W combo is a threat to behold.
So, yeah, I think Celesteela is definitely going to be an OU powerhouse, and whether the user wants to make her a hard-hitter or a hit-taker is up to them.
Oh by the way this is my first post so hi!
So here's a really strong mixed defensive EV Spread I've been running on my bulky Celesteela:
Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Leech Seed
- Flamethrower
- Protect
- Heavy Slam
It just walls so much shit it isn't even funny. Here's some calcs to show just how dumb this set is:
An alternative spread of 248 HP / 132 Def / 128 SpD Sassy can also work but it loses out on avoiding the 2HKO from LO genesect's FLamethrower as well as LO Greninja's HP Fire.
Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Leech Seed
- Flamethrower
- Protect
- Heavy Slam
It just walls so much shit it isn't even funny. Here's some calcs to show just how dumb this set is:
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 180+ SpD Celesteela: 64-76 (31.5 - 37.4%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 80 Def Celesteela: 95-112 (46.7 - 55.1%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Landorus Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 180+ SpD Celesteela: 69-82 (33.9 - 40.3%) -- 43% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 180+ SpD Celesteela: 86-104 (42.3 - 51.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 180+ SpD Celesteela: 79-95 (38.9 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 248 HP / 180+ SpD Celesteela in Psychic Terrain: 72-86 (35.4 - 42.3%) -- 92.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 180+ SpD Celesteela: 88-104 (43.3 - 51.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Genesect Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 180+ SpD Celesteela: 76-90 (37.4 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Genesect Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 180+ SpD Celesteela: 99-117 (48.7 - 57.6%) -- 48% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Kingdra Scald vs. 248 HP / 180+ SpD Celesteela in Rain: 90-107 (44.3 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 248 HP / 180+ SpD Celesteela: 86-104 (42.3 - 51.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 80 Def Celesteela: 95-112 (46.7 - 55.1%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Landorus Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 180+ SpD Celesteela: 69-82 (33.9 - 40.3%) -- 43% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 180+ SpD Celesteela: 86-104 (42.3 - 51.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 180+ SpD Celesteela: 79-95 (38.9 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 248 HP / 180+ SpD Celesteela in Psychic Terrain: 72-86 (35.4 - 42.3%) -- 92.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 180+ SpD Celesteela: 88-104 (43.3 - 51.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Genesect Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 180+ SpD Celesteela: 76-90 (37.4 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Genesect Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 180+ SpD Celesteela: 99-117 (48.7 - 57.6%) -- 48% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Kingdra Scald vs. 248 HP / 180+ SpD Celesteela in Rain: 90-107 (44.3 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 248 HP / 180+ SpD Celesteela: 86-104 (42.3 - 51.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
An alternative spread of 248 HP / 132 Def / 128 SpD Sassy can also work but it loses out on avoiding the 2HKO from LO genesect's FLamethrower as well as LO Greninja's HP Fire.
I think that was supposed to be the point. That the Ultra Beasts (in general. Celesteela is the exception that proves the rule) are meant to be radically imbalanced. They are godly in a couple stats but the rest are barely useable at best and downright horrible at worse (On the brightside, Blissey now has a companion for all these Physical attacks :P).
In a way the stats help reinforced the Eldritch theme they have going, most normal pokemon do specialize in certain stats but they would still take or deliver a punch better than a Caterpie. Likewise they all have a rare (and unique in most cases) type combination that also leaves them with one 4x type weakness, (Notable, The subject of the thread is the only one to buck those trends, while Xirkitree is the only other UB to not have a high weakness to any type (being just Mono-type Thunder).
I have a feeling that both were on purpose, as a certain chimerical pokemon as created in response to these beings. The pokemon Type: Null, modeled on Arceus who not only has the ability to change types at will, but also has its stats being extremely balanced across the board (in relation to each other, due to being the exact same.), this makes them adatable to the Ultra Beasts.
Kartana slicing up buildings? Take a Fire Plate/Memory and a burn it down with Flamethower. Nhielego spreading deadly nuerotoxin in laboratories? Bust out the Grout Earth Memory/Plate and give that jellyfish an earthquake. Guzzlord chugging down Oceans? Simply change to Fairy and and take that sucker down with Dazzling Gleam.
To put in simple terms, Type: Null (and Silvally) was designed to be the perfect counter to the Ultra beast (though not the only Counter...unless you're Pheremosa :P, there's also the matter of how it works in practice.)
Celesteela here is an outlier because their stats are almost equal to Silvally's (exact same BST but everything but Speed is higher), and theres no crippling type weakness for Silvally to exploit (Flying covers Electric's weakness, and its won weakness only ensure 2x damage at best as opposed to 4x like the other UBs). The ramifications are...interesting to say the least
I getcha. Too bad Type:Null and Silvally are both mediocre competitively. I like Celesteela's diversity as well, so I guess that's a further contrast with the rest of the UB's, who often have limited or downright inappropriate movepools for their typing and stats. Not to say Celesteela's plethora of grass and fire moves make sense with its steel/flying typing and overall defensive build.
That is monstrous. I may have to use that, but I am driven to a more offensive build frankly.
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I got the type wrong in my last post (regarding the lore and Silvally's stats in relation to the UBs), so I wanted to make sure I got this right. Does Steel/Flying have a x4 weakness? Steel/flying. NVM. I think its gonna take me awhile to get used to the typings of some of the Ultra beasts.
As for the Fire and Grass moves, I think those are appropriate for Celestella since they are essentially a bamboo rocket with 3 thrusters (and in a similar case of Lore/Gameplay integration the Pokedex claims it to be capable of burning down a forest), as well as the aforementioned eldritch theme
As for the Fire and Grass moves, I think those are appropriate for Celestella since they are essentially a bamboo rocket with 3 thrusters (and in a similar case of Lore/Gameplay integration the Pokedex claims it to be capable of burning down a forest), as well as the aforementioned eldritch theme
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Just wondering, doesnt Autotomize reduce Heavy Slam damage by making it lighter?
It does, but someone calc'd it and it barely makes any difference in most cases. Pretty sure it's in this thread or the old locked version.
Thanks. I guess it is so damn heavy that even with Autotomize's weight reduction it remains over the thereshold for maximum BP in most cases. Wasn't sure tho and was thinking of going straight to a SpA set when picking Autotomize.
Another thing, would the SpA set with Flamethrower/Flash Cannon be much worse than the physical set with Heavy Slam/Fire Blast? The thing here is about accuracy but the physical set could check/counter things Im not aware of that the special set can't or has a harder time doing so.
Man, I absolutely adore how much of a wild card Celesteela is. There's like fifty different sets you can run on this thing, be it a bulky attacker, an Autonomize sweeper, a regenerator, or anything in between. It's impossible for people to know what set you're running until you start hitting them with it.
Also, for the curious, here is the Heavy Slam effectiveness list in question.
Not that much worse, honestly. People usually go with the physical set because 120 BP Heavy Slam plus STAB is too good to pass up, and even with a -SpA Nature things like Flamethrower and Fire Blast will do what they need to do, though you could argue the same with Heavy Slam still getting things done on a -Atk Nature just because it hits that damn hard. The only real difference Physical/Special-wise is that all of its Rock moves are Physical, which you may not even be using depending on your build.
Also, for the curious, here is the Heavy Slam effectiveness list in question.
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Even still, is there any real good reason worth losing even the smallest damage output compared to not losing damage output with Rock Polish?
In this case, Rock Polish would be 100% better. The only itty bitty tiny detail here is that Celesteela unfortunately doesn't learn Rock Polish. :(
Oh wow, you're right. I remember hearing somewhere that it did learn Rock Polish.
Ah well, Autotomize is better than nothing I guess.
This is the most useful glue mon in this meta bar Aegislash, but holy hell this thing can be extremely annoying. A specially defensive or specially-leaning mixed spread seems to work best but it might be worth throwing in a few speed EVs to get the jump on other Celesteela. It sits in that weird speed range where you can adjust your creep quite a bit so I'm looking forward to that.
Offensive sets aren't as impactful to me because you are giving up a lot of bulk to get the jump on 115s after a flame charge; the upside is that if you can ko something with flame charge you become immediately difficult to deal with, and even if you don't you'll be threatening a lot with +1 heavy slams. You give up a lot of bulk to pull off something like this (you need significant (special) attack and speed investment) and once your opponent knows what's up it's much less annoying to play around than a specially defensive variant.
Offensive sets aren't as impactful to me because you are giving up a lot of bulk to get the jump on 115s after a flame charge; the upside is that if you can ko something with flame charge you become immediately difficult to deal with, and even if you don't you'll be threatening a lot with +1 heavy slams. You give up a lot of bulk to pull off something like this (you need significant (special) attack and speed investment) and once your opponent knows what's up it's much less annoying to play around than a specially defensive variant.
Celesteela doesn't get rock polish, so if you wanna utilize it's sweeping capabilities you need autotomize.
May I ask what the argument is for Careful over Sassy on a defensive set? Is the speed difference significant on a set without automize/flame charge?
Vague
Banned deucer.
careful is used when you're not using flamethrower and sassy is used if you are running flamethrower or a special move in general. flamethrower is an awesome coverage move for it though as it allows it to beat other steels, so sassy is the most common set thus far.
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