I personally topped the suspect ladder (by a real large margin) with a tr team
You're using Aboma cause it resists ground? Cause Mawile is better in every single way. It hits hard as living hell, it has a much better typing (yeah Ground resist is nice but that comes with a silly amount of weaknesses, including weaknesses to multiple priority moves,) it's basically impossible to wall outside of a very small number of pokemon, Sucker Punch hits WAY harder than Ice Shard and Maw doesn't have to use it that much under TR.
heatran is almost always betterSo I've been looking into possible lower tier threats that may excel specifically under trick room, and I believe that I've found an interesting (though potentially outclassed) contender.
Camerupt@Life Orb
trait: solid rock
4hp/252atk/252spatk
Quiet Nature
-fire blast/overheat
-Earthquake/Earth power
-Stone edge
-hidden power [grass]/[ice]
A lot of pokemon from generation 3 were incredibly lackluster, mostly due to their stat distribution. Most offensive pokemon are either slow but powerful and bulky, or frail but powerful and fast. Most generation 3 pokemon however were offensive in nature yet slow as well as frail, as they were mixed attackers. Yet because of their low BSTs their offences themselves were hardly usable since their base stats were split between two stats. I feel no gen 3 pokemon better illustrates that then Camerupt.
This Camerupt set however allows the volcano camel to utilize both his offences to their full potential while also circumventing his awful speed. With 252 EVs in both offences he becomes a mixed attacker stronger than most OU mixed pokemon, as they often run 252 EVs in speed and split the remaining 256 between their offences. Camerupt has fantastic STABs, and also two coverage moves that gel wonderfully with them. The reason I looked to Camerupt was because trick room often gets the drop on HO teams, but struggle with stall teams. most trick room sweepers run choice items because trick room turns are far too limited to allow for boosting. This makes them easily outplayed or outpredicted by stall, and without boosting they often lack the raw power to break through walls, while HO teams crumble because of their relative frailty. Camerupt changes this, as he has fantastic mixed attacking power and coverage, and speed low enough that he can outspeed almost all offensive pokemon in trick room and also possesses the coverage and wallbreaking ability to cause stall teams major problems.
hidden power grass is for quagsire who is a common staple of stall teams, however hp ice can be used for dragonite and garchomp, or flash cannon can be used for fairies (keep in mind though OU's most popular fairy is Azumarill so you're probably better with hp grass anyway, and even then you can only hit Azu on the switch since it has 4x effectiveness STAB priority). Stone Edge can be foregone for hp rock/ancient power if you're using flash cannon and earth power and you want to use a bulky fully special attacker spread, but the power drop is obvious and you also lose out on Camerupt's great mixed attacking wallbreaking. Eruption is an option, however it will require both a defogger or spinner and not using life orb to allow Camerupt to be at full health, the only time it outpowers the other listed fire moves. On top of this an expert belt full health Eruption = 180 bp, while a life orb overheat = 182 bp and a life orb fire blast = 156 bp, making it hardly ever worth it. You could use choice specs for an astonishing 225bp eruption and still no hp drop, but if you're using specs eruption in trick room simply use Heatran since Camerupt's niche is his coverage and mixed stats.
In complete honesty Camerupt probably isn't worth using, His offences are just a bit too low and being simultaneously frail and slow is a death sentence and he lacks a really exploitable ability. I just wanted to throw this out there in case anyone was looking for answers to stall for trick room.
I largely agree Heatran is usually better and Camerupt is pretty lackluster. I was just looking for pokemon that could possibly patch up TR teams' weakness to stall in the form of a powerful wallbreaker. Specs Eruption Heatran burns almost everything to cinders, but a pokemon such as say Tyranitar, bulky Mega Charizard X, specially defensive latias etc. can turn his choice lock into a liability without good prediction, and that pool of pokemon grows bigger if Heatran takes any prior damage such as stealth rocks or spikes. Camerupt could deal with all of these pokemon with its coverage moves while still being a powerful fire type under trick room, as well as bringing in an element of unpredictability that could be a problem for stall teams and defensive cores. Still though I entirely concede Camerupt is a niche and mostly outclassed trick room pokemon and most people will choose Heatran for his sheer power, better bulk and typing, and flash fire potentially making him extra unwallable.
It's not really weather+tr.
Oh I didn't realize we were talking specifically about lunar dance Cress, that's much more usable and immediately brings heatran into a sunny trick room with full health. Still though setting up trick room and sunny day back to back can definitely be a dangerous gamble if suddenly the opponent's pokemon pulls a sub out of a hat or starts setting up calm minds or anything similar. Much less risky and much more win condition focused than what I was imagining though.
haha if they're up against cress, they are going to get a sub up regardless :P
Those are some very impressive calculations. I retract anything I may have said about sun + trick room being exploitable with the exception of sub users.
Trick Room is definitely difficult to use and is also a high risk move like belly drum and shell smash. However I'm not sure the reward for that risk is the same as cloyster's shell smash and belly drum azumarill.
Too weak and too fast.
I think that the most viable setup of this sort would be typical trick room + gothitelle (does it get tr? it could take the place of a setter if so)
Scrafty applies to all of those except for Brave Bird priority, which can be dealt with by team support.
CB Talonflame only needs a small amount of damage on that core in order sweep them (sr for instance) and if SD Talonflame gets to +2, it doesn't need prior damage. The same applies for M-Pinsir.
I actually have 0 trouble with talonflame because like every other TR team, my setters are bulky enough to handle it. Also Crawdaunt outprioritizes under TR, and Exploud can survive any unboosted hit if it needs to. Under TR, this core recks Pinsir and out of Trick Room my setters handle that easy too.
I actually tried to get to number 1 using nothing but a TR team under the alt "spam to ban" I almost got to number 1 the closest I got was number 6 on the OU ladder but then I just stopped playing because I got pretty busy. You can search "spam to ban" for replays where after I win my rank is over 1900 but yeah it did good against stall because I used mixed Victini to wall break plus SD Mega Mawile. With Mega Mawile gone, Trick Room playstyle has definitely lost viability though.
