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Other Trick Room Playstyle
- Thread starter Katakiri
- Start date
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Chadtherest00
Wi-Fi Blacklisted
Yeah I just found a pretty badass OU trick room team. I just need a solid fire type for the ferrothorn and I'll be good. Ud be surprised at the bullshit a first turn machamp can bring to the table
I made a pretty badarse one as well using Espeon for setup( because it can learn baton,curse,and trick room). The other big players where Steelix (which is slightly more op when it has 920 defense rather then 200,. 230 for mega, x4 from curse), and Tyranitar (for the sinergy w/ steelix's mega ability)
Chadtherest00
Wi-Fi Blacklisted
Hey man can you post up your deck list I wanna try out your team
I will but I'm posting from a computer without that team in its cookies.
Chadtherest00
Wi-Fi Blacklisted
Oh alright I think I get it lol I dunno what cookies r
Has anyone tried Lando-T on a TR team? I've been having good results with it so far:
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Knock Off / Stone Edge / U-turn / Rock Slide
- Stealth Rock / Stone Edge / Rock Slide / U-turn
Lando hits like a truck so often you won't need to SD late game; Intimidate - like on all Lando sets - helps Lando come in easily and is the main reason I opt for special def investment as it can take physical hits pretty well because of it. Intimidate also eases your TR setters getting in TR in the first place in the face a potent physical threat as a last resort. Unlike a lot of sweepers Lando can easily 2HKO Unaware physically defensive Clefable which is a pretty big deal I've found on TR teams, and beyond that it's just great wall breaking in general. I like to run SR and Knock Off, I find SR is pretty much mandatory on TR teams to break sashes and Sturdy and coming from a sweeper is unexpected - it also frees up a TR setter to be more useful (so for example I used to use both Uxie and Mesprit as both TR setters and SR setters, however now with Lando taking the job of a SR setter I could swap Mesprit for the much more offensive Mega Gardevoir). As Lando-T is on the speedier side, you need to be careful around slow mons with strong water or ice moves (TTar, Azumarill and Conkledurr being the main trouble makers), on the plus side this means you can KO them easily outside of TR.
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Knock Off / Stone Edge / U-turn / Rock Slide
- Stealth Rock / Stone Edge / Rock Slide / U-turn
Lando hits like a truck so often you won't need to SD late game; Intimidate - like on all Lando sets - helps Lando come in easily and is the main reason I opt for special def investment as it can take physical hits pretty well because of it. Intimidate also eases your TR setters getting in TR in the first place in the face a potent physical threat as a last resort. Unlike a lot of sweepers Lando can easily 2HKO Unaware physically defensive Clefable which is a pretty big deal I've found on TR teams, and beyond that it's just great wall breaking in general. I like to run SR and Knock Off, I find SR is pretty much mandatory on TR teams to break sashes and Sturdy and coming from a sweeper is unexpected - it also frees up a TR setter to be more useful (so for example I used to use both Uxie and Mesprit as both TR setters and SR setters, however now with Lando taking the job of a SR setter I could swap Mesprit for the much more offensive Mega Gardevoir). As Lando-T is on the speedier side, you need to be careful around slow mons with strong water or ice moves (TTar, Azumarill and Conkledurr being the main trouble makers), on the plus side this means you can KO them easily outside of TR.
Pretty much outclassed by Rhyperior, who has great dual STAB, access to better coverage moves like Ice Punch and Megahorn and is actually slow unlike Landorus-T. Also handles Smogonbird who bypasses TR and can be a huge pain to deal with unless you use TR Diancie which is not particulary amazing.
Intimidate sorts Smogonbird as a check, and Intimidate is also the vastly superior ability. Plus, it hits harder than Rhyperior with EQ, and doesn't have to rely on a shaky accuracy rock move if it doesn't want to and has much better special bulk. It min speed is a speed tier that works nicely outside of TR, outspeeding neutral base 70s outside of TR (Sylveon, etc.) which is more of an benefit than a hindrance if anything. I'm in the mid 1500s using this and climbing, trust me it's a good idea. I find people are pretty keen to nay-say around here without actually testing things out.
PS I'm also using min-speed Mega Garde, who's even faster!
PS I'm also using min-speed Mega Garde, who's even faster!
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The reason why people disagree with your ideas is simply as follows: your not giving reasons for why your Mon is better than the other:
You say that intimidate sorts out smogonbird aka talonflame, but really, rhypherior doesn't need intimidate to sort out flame. Its immense physical bulk and typing allow the much easier walling of it, much more so than a landorus-t which will definitely take a lot from a banded brave bird regardless.
You say that Landorus hits harder than rhypherior with eq. Congratulations. You now know how base stats work :]
You say Landorus doesn't need to rely on an unreliable rock move. What kinda of world does Landorus outclass Rhypherior in TR with access to a rock move that doesn't exist? Rock Slide is accurate, I'll give ya that, but its also piss weak, its why people still opt with stone edge over rock slide as well as the possibility that rock slide can STILL miss, so its not accurate in the first place. If anything, Rhypherior outclassed Landorus in this regard since its rock move is stab boosted, increasing its neutral base coverage extensively thanks to edgequake coverage.
You say Landorus is better because special bulk. Really? Landorus is going to tanking THAT much more from special hits, thanks to Rhyperiors great HP, its still got decent special defense, even if its base stat doesn't back this up. You will find that special bulk doesn't even matter that much anyway. With a TR sweepers you are going to be mainly taking priority damage, and almost all priority is physical, which means special bulk is hardly a factor.
Lastly, you say Landorus functions better outside of TR. Uhm, OK? Then you give us a speed calculation how your spread manages to out speed Sylveon. Which means in TR where its effectiveness should be increased, its gets out sped by the likes of Sylveon, and anything Slower, you lose the main niche behind a TR making slow, powerful, bulky stuff extremely fast and as a result I feel like not only is this a pathetic set to even try on TR, but one that is outclassed.
What does Landorus have that Rhypherior doesn't. It has Knock off and U-Turn, 1 of which shouldnt be used in TR and the other (knock off) that is there for coverage only. Rhyperior takes hits better, deals more damage to more targets, faster in TR where its supposed to sweep and has Solid Rock to take super effective priority moves like Bullet Punch and Mach Punch that much more better. For sure its more consistent in a sweeping environment to intimidate, which is frankly only giving you a capability to switch into more targets, not helping you sweep like solid rock in the slightest.
Also don't use mega gardevoir in TR. If you want something to use in TR that hits hard, look at mega Camerupt, one of the best TR sweepers due to its slow speed and immense power. Gardevoir will just get out slowed by ferrothorn and ohkoed by gyro ball, it makes a massive momentum killing tbh and should be completely ignored as far as TR is concerned.
Just noticed that poster above sniped me, but anyways just for proof and completeness:
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Landorus-T: 169-201 (44.2 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
That's not a check, and you're suggesting a set that doesn't even run HP EV's to begin with... Also saying that Intimidate is vastly superior than Solid Rock is debatable. Lastly I do have a lot of experience with Trick Room, been using it since early Gen 5 so yeah I know what I'm talking about. Landorus-T simply does not have enough to offer over Rhyperior to be worth using in general. U-turn is a waste of TR turns and Trick Room teams normally have something as a Ground resist already, e.g. Bronzong, Cresselia etc.
First of all, HJAD chill. Your first paragraph is quite valid, so I'm not going to respond to that, see the bit directed at Liarliar if you want a better explanation of why I like it against Talonflame.
Brave Lando-T 0 Speed IVs = 168
Modest Sylveon 12 Speed EVs 31 IVs = 159
You say you lose your niche by not being slower, but that is why you do have something else slower on your team. Azu is a great example, getting through all slow pokemon pretty easily with Knock Off, BD, Aqua Jet and Waterfall (even Mega Slowbro after Rocks). The only one it doesn't is Ferro, who gets crapped on by Lando-T anyway at the +2 which is extremely easy to set up against Ferro. By tiering your own speed across your team you're at a huge advantage, and not as you say a disadvantage.
In regards to U-turn, I don't use it but it can be useful to pivot even under TR if you get a KO you weren't suggesting. It was just a suggestion, not gospel, and not even the core set I was suggesting (the earlier slashed moves being more pertinent - not saying that all options were equal here).
I guess if you're both right, on its own Lando-T isn't as good as Ryperior in TR - but when you pair it to low speed stuff that can take out lower speed threats I'd say it's far better.
I'm saying just run Knock Off and EQ (I run SR as the third slot), yes the coverage is slightly worse but with attack the size of Rhyperior's or Lando's who cares? Even resists can be taken out at the +2 with STAB, LO and that attack.
I think they normally need to be able to tank one yes. Other priority in TR can be dealt with by a slower priority user, Azumarill being a great example (it has the priority in TR, not Talonflame, in fact there's very few priority users that can weather a +4 Aqua Jet outside of Metagross who doesn't run BP all the time anyway) - so I would never use Lando for that unless I had to. Tanking a specs hit is a very good idea, you're right in that there's a lot of physical priority and just strong physical attacks flying around. What I suggest makes Lando for at least the first turn before recoil sets in it's in a passable mixed wall, which is usually all it needs to get a +2 boost then curb stomp two mons. Rhyperior does not have that.
Do I really have to? Why would I lie? I did mean base 60s and not 70s, but it's hardly much of a flub since that still encompasses the majority of stall.
Brave Lando-T 0 Speed IVs = 168
Modest Sylveon 12 Speed EVs 31 IVs = 159
You say you lose your niche by not being slower, but that is why you do have something else slower on your team. Azu is a great example, getting through all slow pokemon pretty easily with Knock Off, BD, Aqua Jet and Waterfall (even Mega Slowbro after Rocks). The only one it doesn't is Ferro, who gets crapped on by Lando-T anyway at the +2 which is extremely easy to set up against Ferro. By tiering your own speed across your team you're at a huge advantage, and not as you say a disadvantage.
Intimidate also provides support to the rest of the team as I mentioned, which Solid Rock does not. This is a pretty huge deal and why people use Lando-T on so many teams in the first place.
Thanks for your concern, though I have many things that can deal with Ferro and Hyper Voice at +252 SAtk can easily sweep weakened teams. Hell, I can also not TR and use Focus Blast or HP Fire for the majority of steels, which Garde lures handily. I also have a system of getting it in safe to set TR which I'm not going to disclose until I've laddered further. I'm now 1600+ and rising, I'll prove it after I've peaked but I'd rather not give up my new alt until I've laddered so people don't get the drop on that I'm using a TR team from the off. I'd say as a preliminary, that's also far higher than most TR teams in this gen climb.
But I nearly always get SR down, which means Talonflame doesn't come out early game. Plus Azu, who is on my team, makes mince meat of Talonflame under TR so usually I can take a few things out as the opponent doesn't switch in Talonflame (or if they do, it's toast), then when TR fades and they do bring him out I can bring in Lando and then they're two men down and with a weakened Talonflame who's doubly done if I still have SR up as they won't want to switch - easy pickings.
In regards to U-turn, I don't use it but it can be useful to pivot even under TR if you get a KO you weren't suggesting. It was just a suggestion, not gospel, and not even the core set I was suggesting (the earlier slashed moves being more pertinent - not saying that all options were equal here).
I guess if you're both right, on its own Lando-T isn't as good as Ryperior in TR - but when you pair it to low speed stuff that can take out lower speed threats I'd say it's far better.
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gonna make a quick reply
-agree with the first point, knock off does do decent job as a coverage move, its nothing like having an extra stab though.
-azu doesnt switch into all priority mons, talonflame almost ohkoes it if it tries to switch in. If you want a free switch into flame, it often ends in a poke getting sacked.
-the point of that, being fast in a TR team is bad. You want your team to be as slow as possible to abuse TR to the greatest extent, not just a little bit vs some offense.
-Intimidate does support your team, yes. Is TR why people use Landorus-T, nah. People use it as a great pivot scarfed or defensive, allowing you to maintain momentum, part of that being intimidate mean it can take less damage from physical attackers.
-The problem is, getting SR down and maitaining it is 2 different things. Maintenance is much more difficult than getting it up and even then, you might not be able to get it up.
-Ladder means nothing, especially at the bottom. Beat someone people of a higher tournament caliber, then youre talking. Mega Camel also smacks around steels :[
Anyways, hf, TR is a goofy playstyle at the best but if someone can get results with it, im all for it.
I don't need a switch, as I said Talonflame doesn't threaten my go to lead and I nearly always get rocks up (see below on the maintenance issue). Point is, a free switch Talonflame takes a lot of pulling off - it's really not that trivial with rocks in place which is why I have two setters and the first one is very competent at getting the job done.
Against nigh on all offense more like - the banning of Aegislash and Mega Mawile really means that offense is either fast or Azumarill. Beyond that slow threats really don't enjoy 252+ LO STAB EQs from Lando or a 252+ Hyper Voice/Focus Blast from Mega Garde, trust me. Tiering speed inside your own TR team is a very good thing to do.
On a related note I used to think Mega Sableye was a huge problem - that it wouldn't Mega Evo and then it would burn all my sweepers. However, this never happens - it's bulk sucks against serious physical threats without the Mega so they would usually only burn one and then it's wiped out by faster threats lack Lando. Plus I have Healing Wish, so burns aren't that costly anyway.
I never implied as such, obviously people don't think of Lando-T for TR hence the point bringing it up in the first place.
Then use two setters, use Memento and have something like Bisharp.
I played a match recently where I got TR up as Zapdos switched in (it also set the SR the previous turn), Mementoed it next turn (which blocks Defog as it needs a target to hit), then I switched in Bisharp. Either I would take a Heat Wave, or I would get a boost from Defog. I took the Heat Wave which only took about 40% due to the SAtk drop as I SDed then I Knocked Off next turn and OHKOed and then they rage quitted because Bisharp was too much of threat at that point. Text book maintenance. If you really think about how maintenance can be done, it's not as hard as you think. I've kept the replay of that too.
I've beat one person at the 1700 mark (I've only thought 2, lol) through skill, I'm hoping I'll beat more, we'll see. Whatever the weather, I wouldn't call 1600 "bottom ladder". Also Mega Camel is dead weight outside of TR, and has horrible weaknesses. SD Feraligatr with LO is easily a much more fearsome threat, and has priority.
Cheers, I'll keep at it and hopefully make TR a force to be reckoned with again.
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SketchUp
Don't let your memes be dreams
Semi Trick Room teams are pretty underwhelming but they have a decent niche in the current metagame. If you want to maintain speed control outside of Trick Room (what Semi TR basically is) I don't think Landorus-T is the way to go on neither full TR nor semi TR because it doesn't have the speed tier to outspeed the faster pokemon that can threaten Trick Room (fast priority users for example) and it is too fast to work on full TR teams. I tried out Trick Room a few times in ORAS and these are some sets that were pretty fun to use:
Victini @ Flame Plate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpA
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- random move you never use
Victini forces many switches on offensive teams which give Victini the opportunity to set up a Trick Room and spam V-Create. One of the biggest downsides of V-Create, the speed drop, is negated by Trick Room which helps smashing through teams. While 5 turns are pretty short to smack through some teams, you can do heavy damage to many walls so a trick room cleaner can finish the walls. The filler move can be either Brick Break to hit Tyranitar or U-Turn to get some chip damage off (after a speed drop you even outspeed Hippowdon under Trick Room, which gives you 10% extra chip damage)
Whimsicott @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Trick Room
- U-turn
- Memento
- Encore
Whimsicott is very gimmicky as a Trick Room Suicide Lead, but it does its job pretty well. Most of the time you just spam Trick Room + Memento to get your Trick Room sweeper in for save, but in some occassions you can keep your sash in the first turn and use U-Turn to keep momentum and save Whimsicott for a late-game Memento. Encore works if you can keep hazarsd off the field. You can come in on a non-attacking move and encore your opponent, giving you a free Trick Room (+ Memento)
Victini @ Flame Plate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpA
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- random move you never use
Victini forces many switches on offensive teams which give Victini the opportunity to set up a Trick Room and spam V-Create. One of the biggest downsides of V-Create, the speed drop, is negated by Trick Room which helps smashing through teams. While 5 turns are pretty short to smack through some teams, you can do heavy damage to many walls so a trick room cleaner can finish the walls. The filler move can be either Brick Break to hit Tyranitar or U-Turn to get some chip damage off (after a speed drop you even outspeed Hippowdon under Trick Room, which gives you 10% extra chip damage)
Whimsicott @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Trick Room
- U-turn
- Memento
- Encore
Whimsicott is very gimmicky as a Trick Room Suicide Lead, but it does its job pretty well. Most of the time you just spam Trick Room + Memento to get your Trick Room sweeper in for save, but in some occassions you can keep your sash in the first turn and use U-Turn to keep momentum and save Whimsicott for a late-game Memento. Encore works if you can keep hazarsd off the field. You can come in on a non-attacking move and encore your opponent, giving you a free Trick Room (+ Memento)
i made a pretty cool tr team that is hanging around 1600-1700 elo on the ladder.
in my experience the best megas for tr are either sd mega scizor or bulky mixed sweeper altaria cuz
both are useful outside tr too.
sets:
Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 84 Atk / 176 SpD
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off
Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 248 HP / 168 SpA / 92 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Fire Blast
- Roost
- Earthquake
the evs in analysis are bit complicated but i used 252/252 hp/offense spreads.
in my experience the best megas for tr are either sd mega scizor or bulky mixed sweeper altaria cuz
both are useful outside tr too.
sets:
Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 84 Atk / 176 SpD
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off
Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 248 HP / 168 SpA / 92 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Fire Blast
- Roost
- Earthquake
the evs in analysis are bit complicated but i used 252/252 hp/offense spreads.
In terms of the random move you never use, I've found Final Gambit can be nice. At full health you can OHKO things like Heatran on the switch, and it allows you a free switch into something powerful. Even after SR, it does pretty heavy damage - and ghosts not named Chandelure won't be switching into Victini anyway so there's not too much of a worry of it hitting a ghost.
Here's my own Whimsi set, which has been working pretty well:
Whimsicott @ Red Card
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Cotton Guard
- Trick Room
- Memento
Cotton Guard allows you to phaze heavily boosted physical pokemon (or things behind a sub) with Red Card, even steels giving you a handy panic button (CG will typically outspeed Scizor's Bullet Punch and nothing else really uses Bullet Punch, Mega Meta is always going to go for the stronger Meteor Mash anyway). Priority Taunt allows you to out Taunt other Taunters (so no need for Mental Herb here), and can guarantee what you're bringing in after Whimsi won't get Roared away or Wisped while it sets up - it's also anti-stall which is a handy thing to have and I've found through testing it's far less situational than Encore. With Prankster, Trick Room has the same priority as Roar and Whirlwind, meaning with Whimsi's high speed you will get your Trick Room down regardless (that's if you didn't Taunt them first).
Memento is great to bring things in safe, and that doesn't just mean set up sweepers. If I'm up against a threat I know my TR setters won't be able to TR in front of, then I can Memento on them and then set TR with the other team member. All in all, this set pretty much guarantees that Whimsi is never going to be dead weight on the team. I'm not very keen on U-turn as Whimsi's bulk isn't good enough for repeat TR setting to be honest.
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