Other Stall

[SketchUp]

thx you so much SketchUp (damn idk how to quote your name, tag or whatever)

But I can't see the utility of Skill Swap (just for m-sable i guess ?_?)

To tag a person type @ and the name of the user you want to tag right afterwards.

Skill Swap can steal many useful abilities outside of Magic Bounce. Pokemon in OU you really bother if you swap their ability: Azumarill, Breloom, Clefable, Conkeldurr, Gardevoir, Gliscor, Gothitelle, Landorus-I, Sableye, Slowbro, Sylveon, Altaria, Diancie and Thundurus.
Gothitelle and Mega Sableye are the most important, because you can escape from gothitelle and you can status mega sableye.
Azumarill, Mega Gardevoir, Breloom, Sylveon and Mega Altaria all miss damage and they can't hurt Cresselia

calcs

232 SpA Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 93-110 (20.9 - 24.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 124-146 (27.9 - 32.8%) -- 79.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252+ Atk Mega Altaria Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 275-324 (61.9 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Other: Gliscor loses recovery, Thundurus gives you prankster and slowbro gives you regenerator. You can status Mega Diancie, Clefable and Mega Sableye with no drawbacks

 

[love him]

So, here is the team I used to ladder in the suspect test. It's like usual stall (made it quick just for playin reqs, didn't pay attention to teambuilding) but I have noticed some big issues to it.

Lorde (Gothitelle) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Trick

Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Knock Off
- Foul Play

Skarmory @ Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Counter
- Spikes
- Whirlwind

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind / Aromatherapy

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 224 HP / 252 Def / 32 Spe
Bold Nature
- Knock Off / Haze
- Acid Spray / Sludge Bomb
- Scald
- Rapid Spin

Bisharp, with good predictions can be handled, but is really difficult to win with this teams. "Mirror Matches" and SD Talonflame if I can't get a Foul Play the turns he SDs can give me some trouble. There are also some minor issues like Azumarrill etc.

How do you guys deal with that things? I mean, hard stall breakers or wall breakers. Do you have dedicated counters in each team or do you just play around them with hazards and so on.

 

[56k]

I tried out replacing foul play with mean look on sableye, it's had a few pretty cool uses.

 

[Miridy]

I suggest you at least 80 hp evs on Gothitelle, this way you'll be able to stall out Chansey.
Anyways, one way for Talonflame might be to change Skarmory to a Defog variant and use Waterfall Quagsire over Tentacruel, with Waterfall being able to easily 2hko Careful Talonflame.

 

[SketchUp]

I suggest you at least 80 hp evs on Gothitelle, this way you'll be able to stall out Chansey.
Anyways, one way for Talonflame might be to change Skarmory to a Defog variant and use Waterfall Quagsire over Tentacruel, with Waterfall being able to easily 2hko Careful Talonflame.

Waterfall on Tentacruel is a suboptimal option. You can better run Scald, Knock Off, Toxic Spikes, Acid Spray, Rest (pp stallings) Rapid Spin or Toxic.

 

[Miridy]

Waterfall on Tentacruel is a suboptimal option. You can better run Scald, Knock Off, Toxic Spikes, Acid Spray, Rest (pp stallings) Rapid Spin or Toxic.

I meant Waterfall Quagsire in order to always 2hko Stallbreaker Talonflame.

 

[love him]

Thx Amy Sorel for the EVs to Gothi. BTW I meant regular SD Tflame, stallbreaker is not an issue I think.

On the Quagsire thing, I've seen teams similar to mine with Quag > Clefable I suppose to deal with Bisharp and so on better. But I really don't like having no fairies; I suppose that is in personal taste.

 

[SketchUp]

I meant Waterfall Quagsire in order to always 2hko Stallbreaker Talonflame.

Excuse me, misread that.

love him Looking at the team, even with Gothitelle you still have a hard time defeating stall. I suggest putting Stealth Rock on Clefable to threaten Mega Sableye and get your rocks up against stall.
Some big threats to the team include Knock Off Landorus, Mega Gardevoir and Gengar. A SpD Gliscor over Gothitelle really helps you with Landorus and Gengar. You have no switch-ins for fairy types that threaten Sableye so a Stallbreaker Victini over Tentacruel may work. It helps you against stall and it is a solid switchin for Mega Gardevoir

the team

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 240 HP / 192 SpD / 76 Spe
Careful Nature
- Roost
- Earthquake
- Toxic / Knock Off (otherwise you can't win against Gengar)
- Taunt

Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Knock Off
- Foul Play

Skarmory @ Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Counter
- Defog
- Whirlwind

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Stealth Rock

Victini @ Leftovers
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 248 HP / 100 SpD / 160 Spe
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- V-create
- Will-O-Wisp
- Bolt Strike

There are still threats to your team like Talonflame (both SD and Stallbreaker) and Mega Gyarados. The most obvious answer to this problem is putting Unaware Quagsire over Unaware Clefable (However, you still lose to Taunt Mega Gyarados) and giving either Chansey or Skarmory Stealth Rock.

team with quag

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 240 HP / 192 SpD / 76 Spe
Careful Nature
- Roost
- Earthquake
- Toxic / Knock Off
- Taunt

Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Knock Off
- Foul Play

Skarmory @ Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Counter / Stealth Rock
- Defog / Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish / Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Recover

Victini @ Leftovers
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 248 HP / 100 SpD / 160 Spe
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- V-create
- Will-O-Wisp
- Bolt Strike

 

[love him]

SketchUp that arrangements seems cool! I'll test them when the frog gets banned (I mean, when the suspect ladder goes off) Thank you so much :]

 

[SketchUp]

I have been building a stall team myself and I wanted to try out something that was not called Mega Sableye. The team started with the core Mega Venusaur + Victini + Clefable. At this moment I can go 2 ways with my team. The first version of the team has no hazard control. Outside of Victini it is very hard to win against other stall but I can take on many threats bar Manaphy, Gothitelle, Diggersby and Mega Pinsir: pokémon that often destroy stall anyways. I made a second version of the team with more hazards control but it is very weak against Manaphy, Gothitelle, Fire Punch Diggersby, Thunderpunch Mega Metagross and Talonflame. I'm just sharing both teams with you

team 1

Victini @ Leftovers
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 248 HP / 100 SpD / 160 Spe
Careful Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 184 SpD / 76 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Seismic Toss

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Slack Off
- Fire Blast
- Scald
- Ice Beam

team 2

Victini @ Leftovers
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 248 HP / 100 SpD / 160 Spe
Careful Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 184 SpD / 76 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Taunt
- Toxic

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Seismic Toss

Skarmory @ Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Defog
- Stealth Rock

So looking in detail the teams are actually the same except the Gliscor moveset and the Slowbro/Skarmory slot. This slot is a huge difference for my team as team 1 has many problems with hazards stacking teams and the other has problems with Talonflame + Mega Metagross. At the moment I am enjoying the Slowbro team more because it is less passive and I don't see that many spikes setters anyways (and chansey+skarmory core sucks) Just wanted to show you guys this team and ask if anyone knows if there is still a viable way to make a Mega Venu stall team with hazards that doesn't lose to other stall / wallbreakers instantly.

 

[Sun King]

I have been building a stall team myself and I wanted to try out something that was not called Mega Sableye. The team started with the core Mega Venusaur + Victini + Clefable. At this moment I can go 2 ways with my team. The first version of the team has no hazard control. Outside of Victini it is very hard to win against other stall but I can take on many threats bar Manaphy, Gothitelle, Diggersby and Mega Pinsir: pokémon that often destroy stall anyways. I made a second version of the team with more hazards control but it is very weak against Manaphy, Gothitelle, Fire Punch Diggersby, Thunderpunch Mega Metagross and Talonflame. I'm just sharing both teams with you

team 1

Victini @ Leftovers
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 248 HP / 100 SpD / 160 Spe
Careful Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 184 SpD / 76 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Seismic Toss

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Slack Off
- Fire Blast
- Scald
- Ice Beam

team 2

Victini @ Leftovers
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 248 HP / 100 SpD / 160 Spe
Careful Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 184 SpD / 76 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Taunt
- Toxic

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Seismic Toss

Skarmory @ Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Defog
- Stealth Rock

So looking in detail the teams are actually the same except the Gliscor moveset and the Slowbro/Skarmory slot. This slot is a huge difference for my team as team 1 has many problems with hazards stacking teams and the other has problems with Talonflame + Mega Metagross. At the moment I am enjoying the Slowbro team more because it is less passive and I don't see that many spikes setters anyways (and chansey+skarmory core sucks) Just wanted to show you guys this team and ask if anyone knows if there is still a viable way to make a Mega Venu stall team with hazards that doesn't lose to other stall / wallbreakers instantly.

My immediate advice to you would be to take SR off Skarm if you want him to Defog. You end up compressing too many roles into him and you could alleviate that by just moving SR to either Gliscor or Clefable.

 

[love him]

I personally don't like SR + Defog/Spin on the same pokemon, and just like Sun King said I would move that slot (in my case) to Chansey. I don't feel that Heal Bell is so esential in this team. On the other part, I would put Counter on Skarm instead of SR and EQ on Gliscor instead of Toxic.

But I suppose thats personal aids :]

I'm seeing (not here, in the ladder) lots of Victini stall nowadays. Maybe is the new shift in the stall meta since all teams now carry 1 or 2 answers to Goth Stall. What do you think?

 

[Miridy]

Thx Amy Sorel for the EVs to Gothi. BTW I meant regular SD Tflame, stallbreaker is not an issue I think.

On the Quagsire thing, I've seen teams similar to mine with Quag > Clefable I suppose to deal with Bisharp and so on better. But I really don't like having no fairies; I suppose that is in personal taste.

On the Swords Dance set I'm sorry, I should have paraphrase that better, with the rise of the "Sableye Stalls" many people are now running Stallbreaker Talonflame with Swords Dance over Wow in order to have an immediate sweeper that is able to threaten and force mega sableye out while still being able to act as a stallbreaker.

Counter Skarmory does not ohko Talonflame even after tanking a +6 Brave Bird, which means the opponent can swords dance, attack you and block you from recovering health due to taunt and then proceed to finish you, since your actual unaware user cannot do much against it neverthless.
And I agree that removing your fairy pick is not an option, I believe that by making Skarmory your "spinner" with Defog over Spikes/Stealth Rock and then give them to either Chansey or Clefable and then remove Tentacruel for Quagsire might be the best way to give you an hand against Stallbreaker Talonflame, Bisharp and Assault Vest/Belly Drum Azumarill without changing too much your team.
Btw, minor thing but I would also consider dropping 2 Speed Ivs on Skarmory since your not using Taunt on him, by doing this you'll still be slower than Mega Metagross after 2 Hammer Arms easing the pressure he gives you and then proceed to Counter him.

 

[zachmac]

I just made a hazard-stack stall team with Bisharp. And, while this team may still be in its early experimental stages, I must say that it fits in fabulously.

-It threatens defoggers with Defiant, which I suppose is a given.
-It traps Latias, the most common defogger.
-It traps Gothitelle, which is incredibly helpful.
-It even threatens spin blockers, which is nice, since I don't want to rely on defog in a hazards based team.

I'm basically running the standard set but with the Assault Vest. Why the assault vest, you ask? Because this;
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 172-203 (51.4 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Bisharp: 114-135 (34.1 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

It will also save me from the risk of a OHKO from Latios's HP Fire after Stealth Rocks, which is nice. The life orb doesn't really fit on a stall team anyway, and I can live without black glasses, since +2 pursuit is still a OHKO on the latis without it.

It just goes to show how even an offensive mon can have it's place in passive stall.

 

[Windgrace]

How does stall handle things like Manaphy? I'm interested in trying to do something with Mega Sableye but Manaphy seems to pretty easily get to +3/4, use Rain Dance and sweep vs stall.

 

[FurryFurret]

How does stall handle things like Manaphy? I'm interested in trying to do something with Mega Sableye but Manaphy seems to pretty easily get to +3/4, use Rain Dance and sweep vs stall.

Unaware Clefable comes to mind, but if Manaphy runs toxic then idk :/

 

[zachmac]

^Toxic isn't standard on Tail Glow Manaphy, so I wouldn't worry about that.

How does stall handle things like Manaphy? I'm interested in trying to do something with Mega Sableye but Manaphy seems to pretty easily get to +3/4, use Rain Dance and sweep vs stall.

Anyway, yeah, FurryFurret right. Unaware is a huge help when it comes to dealing with set up boosters.
Manaphy also has a hard time breaking Mega Venusaur if it's not running Psychic.
Chansey walls Manaphy even at +3 or even +6 if it's not holding a life orb, but not if it's running Rain Dance.
Ferrothorn also causes it problems.

Another thing you could do if you're willing to lean towards semi-stall is include an offensive check of your own. I used to always have a scarfer on my stall teams back in gen 5, but now that Dragon Dancers are easier to handle(thanks fairies), I can afford to run scarf-less speedsters instead.

 

[Zebstrika]

Another thing you could do if you're willing to lean towards semi-stall is include an offensive check of your own. I used to always have a scarfer on my stall teams back in gen 5, but now that Dragon Dancers are easier to handle(thanks fairies), I can afford to run scarf-less speedsters instead.

I believe Kyurem-B is the most reliable Manaphy counter, especially if you have Heal bell somewhere to take care of the occasional Scald burn (burned LO Fusion Bolt can still 2HKO though). Kyurem-B does a decent job at doubling up with an offensive role that you mention, although it's not that fast. Thunderbolt Latias is a faster Manaphy counter but only if it doesn't run Ice Beam.

 

[love him]

Best answer to TG StallBreaker Manaphy is Unaware Clefable. If he don't get burn on the switch-in; clefable is nearly unkillable for manaphy even if he runs RD (assuming fable to have cm).

Anyways Manaphy is pretty much a threat for stall. Try to stack up hazards and Knock Off his leftovers, that way he's not gonna have any type of recovery and should die in 2-3 switch-ins.

AV Cube does a good job too; and ferrothorn also as the other people said before :]

 

[SketchUp]

Outside of the before mentioned Unaware SpD Clefable and Kyurem-B there is also Power Whip Ferrothorn. If Manaphy lacks Energy Ball (which it does 79% of the time) CM Slowbro with Psyshock also wins

 

[Lil YoshiXD]

How does stall handle things like Manaphy? I'm interested in trying to do something with Mega Sableye but Manaphy seems to pretty easily get to +3/4, use Rain Dance and sweep vs stall.

Unaware clefable gets burned and loses
Kube on stall really not good.
Ferro gets burned and warn down also.

Best options are gothitelle, trick scarf then wall.
SPD Celebi walls all non ice beam manaphy
Venu and amoong work well vs non toxic versions.

 

[Windgrace]

Unaware clefable gets burned and loses
Kube on stall really not good.
Ferro gets burned and warn down also.

Best options are gothitelle, trick scarf then wall.
SPD Celebi walls all non ice beam manaphy
Venu and amoong work well vs non toxic versions.

I'll have to check out the usage stats of Ice Beam vs Energy Ball for coverage. I feel like Energy Ball has risen in use, mostly because Manaphy has become a solid member of a number of offensive cores to handle the likes of M Slowbro and other bulky waters for M Gallade, M Metagross, etc.

Scarf+Trick Gothitelle is probably one of the better ideas. It's a shame it hits so weak, it would be cool to use it as a trapper vs Sylveon (I guess getting rid of either it's Lefties or Specs still helps stall though).

 

[love him]

Gothitelle is a real good answer; but I really disagree with the fable thing Lil YoshiXD as she is one of the better answers on common teams.

Cube in stall is not that bad. Another answer could be SpDf Gyarados (the resttalk version) but with Dtail instead of DD.

Windgrace nowadays the only set that really breaks stall is scald/surf + energy ball; ice beam is not so useful... Unless you are really scared of SpDf Dnite lol.

 

[Sir Azelf]

Yeah Manaphy is a stupid piece of shit too. Nothing viable beats it because its one of those horrendous pokemon that rely on Scald for wall breaking. Tail Glow and Rain support just make it worse. :/ Once again something else in this awful metagame that is low key broken and ridiculous against bulky offensive, balance and stall based teams.

 

[Grim]

TG + RD Manaphy's counters / checks depend on the coverage move its using.

Energy Ball: Tentacruel, M-Venusaur, Amoonguss, Ferrothorn, Celebi, AV Tangrowth, other bulky Grass-types, SpD Dragonite, M-Gyarados, M-Altaria, Kyurem-B, Goodra, (M-)Latias, Dragalge, Empoleon.
Ice Beam: Tentacruel, M-Gyarados, Rotom-W, (M-)Slowbro, Slowking, Manaphy with Energy Ball, Empoleon, Jellicent.
Psychic: Ferrothorn, Celebi, M-Gyarados, (M-)Latias, (M-)Slowbro, Slowking, Empoleon.

Some of those are more viable than others, but all can potentially check or counter it. M-Gyarados stands out as one pokemon that can counter it no matter which coverage move it uses.

As for the CM RD set, counters / checks are most of the pokemon listed above, provided they don't get burned or you let it set up so much that it can break through them. From the pokemon listed above, Amoonguss, AV Tangrowth, M-Altaria, Rotom-W, non CM (M-)Slowbro, and non CM Slowking get screwed over by this set.