(please take note that this is just a speculation thread, and this thread is based purely on my opinion)
Introduction
Throughout generation 5, offense was always the preferred play style. This is mainly due to the power creep that came along with generation 5. Power special attackers like Keldeo and Reuniclus could easily get past the best special walls, where as the best physical sweepers like Terrakion and Scizor could easily get past even the best physical walls. Dragon type attacks were still extremely spammable, as they had such great general coverage. Volt turn always gained momentum for offensive teams, giving stall teams little breathing room, and weather inducers like Ninetales and Politoed made walling Fire and Water type attacks that much harder.
However, with generation 6, Stall has received a lot of buffs. In this thread I'm going to be discussing every advantage and disadvantage for stall in general. Let's start out with the advantages.
Advantages
Fairy types
Fairy type is an incredible defensive typing, as it resists Fighting, Dark and Bug type attacks, but more importantly, Fairy types are immune to Dragon type attacks. This is incredible for Stall teams, as this fact alone can potentially prevent DraMag teams, as well as forcing Dragon types to use their weaker STAB alternative. The extra resistance to Fighting and Bug type attacks is also pretty huge, as they are both very common physical attacks. This I think is going to hinder Volt-turn immensely, while Fighting types have their STAB somewhat nerfed as well, which is great for Stall teams too.
Weather nerf
Weather based teams are going to be much less common this generation, meaning that stall teams will no longer need to worry about boosted Water and Fire type attacks, making special attackers like Keldeo, Volcarona, and Venusaur much easier to deal with. Although there are some dis-advantages to the weather nerf for stall teams too (which I'll get to later), having to no longer take boosted Water and Fire type attacks in huge for stall teams. Dedicated weather based sweepers like Toxicroak and Venusaur I think are going to be a thing of the past, as without unlimited turns to abuse their abilities, they can be potentially stalled out. Because of the lack of weather wars this generation, Dugtrio is going to become less common, because it's main niche was it's ability to trap Tyranitar, that troubled Sun teams. This is also pretty nice for stall teams, as trapping abilities in general are a pain for stall teams.
Sleep count
The sleep mechanics have changed from Generation 5. The sleep count doesn't reset if you switch out, meaning Sleep Talkers become much more viable. Gyarados, Snorlax, and Suicune benefit from this greatly. Speaking of sleep, Grass types are now immune to Spore and Sleep Powder, meaning Celebi, Ferrothorn, Roserade, and other Grass types have just become that much better. With this nerf to Sleep, Breloom isn't going to be troubling stall as much as it did back in generation 5, mainly because nearly every Grass type checks it now.
Hidden Power
Hidden Power's base power has been reduced to a measly base 60 power. This is pretty huge for special walls, as Hidden Power was special attackers main coverage option. 70 base power was already pretty low, but with only 60 base power, you're best off using your Pokemon's STAB attacks, as they generally out power even SE Hidden Power hits. This is great for special walls like Jellicent and Celebi, as Pokemon like Keldeo would often rely on Hidden Power to get past their checks. The choice of hidden power would often determine the counter to the Pokemon using Hidden Power. Take Zapdos for example. Zapdos in gen V UU is countered by Swampert if using HP Ice, and Gligar if using HP Grass. While I still think Hidden Power will be used for x4 super effective damage, I really don't think Hidden Power is going to be as popular as it once was.
New spin blockers
Duoblade and Aeislash are two new Ghost types that seem to have a lot of potential. This is mainly because of their typing and stats. Just for reference, here are Doublade's and Aegislash's information. As you can see, both have incredible bulk, and pretty awesome attack stats. Most importantly however, both can beat Starmie one on one, the premium OU offensive Spinner. When EVed in a certain way, both can take Hydro Pumps very nicely and use Shadow Sneak for huge damage. They both also pack Pursuit, to trap and eliminate Starmie from the game, although this is generally done much better by Scarf Tyranitar.
What makes these two Pokemon so good is one move. King's Shelid. When using this move, if your opponent tries to attack you with a move that makes contact (for reference, that's any move that's affected by Iron Barbs), the user's attack stat is halved. This is absolutely incredible, as it forces physical sweepers to switch out in fear of having their attack halved. Be careful when using this move however, as having a Pokemon set up a Swords Dance or a Substitute is a big fear to keep in mind. Their unique typing allows them to wall some of the most dangerous physical sweepers, including Terrakion, Scizor, and Breloom, some of the best wall breakers of the last generation.
Critical Hits nerf
Critical hits have been reduced in damage from x2 to x1.5, making it easier to stall without being afraid of crits. This also makes it much easier for bulkier sweepers like Reuniclus and Latias to sweep, as critical hits usually spell doom for these Pokemon. While they can still do a lot of damage to these bulky sweepers, and can break through defensive Pokemon, it's not nearly as bad as it used to be.
Sticky Web and Parting Shot
Although not much is known about these two moves yet, they seem to have quite a lot of potential. You can read about Sticky Web and Parting Shot in detail here, but I'll give a brief description of what each move does. Sticky Web is a base 20 power Bug type move, which slows down you opponent's Pokemon as they enter the field. Parting Shot when used lowers the target's Attack and Sp. Atk stats and then the user switches out. Sticky Web has to potential to be incredible for slower based teams, as offensive teams rely on their high speed stat a lot, while Parting Shot is sort of like a defensive U-turn, gaining a ton of momentum for defensive based teams.
New Items (Assult Vest)
While we don't have too much information about the new items, there is one item that seems very interesting. This offensive vest raises Sp. Def but prevents the use of status moves. This item boosts the Pokemon's SpDef stat by 50%, meaning special tanks like Tyranitar and Heatran become that much harder to break through. The only down side to this item is that you can't use status moves, meaning Heatran can't use Toxic, Stealth Rock, or Roar, and Tyranitar can't use Stealth Rock. You also lose Leftovers recovery, which is a pretty massive deal for defensive Pokemon. I'll update this once we have more information on new items.
Negatives
Unfortunately, with the new generation stall also received a few nerfs. Although the benefits far outweigh the cons, the negatives do need to be discussed.
Steel typing
I think the biggest factor is the fact that Steel types lost two resistances. In generation 5, Steel types were one of (if not thee) best defensive typings in the game. This is mainly due to the amount of resistances Steel had and the lack of weaknesses. However, Steel types no longer resist Dark and Ghost type attacks, completely changing how effective Steel types like Skarmory and Jirachi are. Dark types like Tyranitar and Hydreigon can spam their Dark STABs a lot more freely than before, and Skarmory and Scizor can no longer check Tyranitar as easily as they used to.
Defog
Defog really hampers Stall's ability to deal damage, as Stall teas generally rely on indirect damaging moves such as Stealth Rock and Spikes to inflict damage. With the huge buff to Defog, Defog now eliminates all entry hazards on the field. Defog is a Flying type move, meaning it's can't be blocked by Ghost types like Rapid Spin, however it can be Taunt blocked. This might force Stall teams to change their tactics and rely less on entry hazards and phazing to deal any real damage, as well as potentially forcing them to run fast Taunt users to prevent Defog in the first place. Overall, this really is a huge disadvantage for Stall teams.
Weather nerf
Although the nerf to weather abilities is generally a plus, it also has it's negatives for stall teams as well. Pokemon that thrive in weather teams like Ferrothorn and Tentacruel will no longer be boosted by weather, meaning they are generally going to be less effective as they once was. Ferrothorn will no longer be able to tank Hidden Power Fire, while Tentacruel's Rain Dish ability becomes near useless. Hydration Vaporeon also seems like it's going to become non existent, because of the lack of turns it can abuse it's ability. Sun stall and Hail stall will also take a huge hit, and Pokemon like Cresselia and Donphan are going to become much less common.
Mega Evolutions
Generation 6 have brought us Mega Evolutions for loads of Pokemon. Some of these Mega Evolutions greatly hinder stall teams. Mega Gengar gains the ability Shadow Tag, which prevents switching for all non Ghost type Pokemon. This is exceptionally hard for Stall teams to deal with, as stall teams generally don't have the power output to deal with Gengar (as they generally rely on resudiual damage to KO Pokemon). Mega Absol with it's new ability Magic Bounce is also going to trouble stall teams, as Magic Bounce bounces back hazards and status, meaning it's nearly impossible to burn or get up hazards, allowing Mega Absol to easily get up a Swords Dance.
Mega Charizard X can be annoying for stall teams because it's the only Dragon type immune to burn, so it can setup in the face of a lot of Pokemon that would try to burn it, like Jellicent for example. It also has a seriously good STAB combo, resisted only by Heatran and Azumarill. While I don't think it's going to be nearly as common as Mega Charizard X, Mega Charizard Y could potentially be a huge pain for stall as well because it's very powerful and sometimes will have partners like Venusaur and Sawsbuck, but due to the vast amount of competition from other Megas and Mega Zard X being a much better choice in the metagame, it's hard to consider it a common threat to stall, just something to look out for. Although it might not see much usage, Mega Bannette will trouble stall, as it has a priority Taunt and Will-O-Wisp, as stall teams generally rely on non damaging attacks to inflict damage.
Mega Lucario is also going to be a huge pain for stall, as it was generally dealt with by Ground types that were faster than Lucario (Gliscor, and Landorus-T). Now thanks to Mega Lucario's much higher speed stat, Gliscor and Landorus-T no longer out speed it, meaning they are going to be hit hard by Ice Punch. Although regular Lucario does out damage it with Life Orb, the speed is incredible for Lucario, as well as Adaptability boosting it's STAB Close Combat. It's counter is generally going to be decided on what 4th move slot it's using. Variants running Crunch will be dealt with by Gliscor and Landorus-T, while variants with Ice Punch are going to be dealt with by bulky Psychic types like Reuniclus, Mew, and Celebi (as well as Jellicent). Mega Mawile is gonna be hard for stall teams to face, as it has an icredible attack stat when factoring in Huge Power, as well as having access to Sucker Punch.
Conclusion
I think it's fair to say that stall teams greatly benefited from generation 6. While some strategies like Rain stall and Sun stall I think are going to die out, and Steel types are no longer as good as they once was, stall teams are definitely going to be viable this generation. Please consider that this is all just theory-mon, and this thread is mainly based on my opinion. For all we know, offense might dominate, but it's a very interesting topic to discuss. Thanks for reading.
Some general posting guidelines
- post based off actual game data (no phantasy mons)
- no discussion on what Pokemon/move is gonna be banned
- no one line posts
- please be somewhat intelligent when posting
~Stall~
Introduction
Throughout generation 5, offense was always the preferred play style. This is mainly due to the power creep that came along with generation 5. Power special attackers like Keldeo and Reuniclus could easily get past the best special walls, where as the best physical sweepers like Terrakion and Scizor could easily get past even the best physical walls. Dragon type attacks were still extremely spammable, as they had such great general coverage. Volt turn always gained momentum for offensive teams, giving stall teams little breathing room, and weather inducers like Ninetales and Politoed made walling Fire and Water type attacks that much harder.
However, with generation 6, Stall has received a lot of buffs. In this thread I'm going to be discussing every advantage and disadvantage for stall in general. Let's start out with the advantages.
Advantages
Fairy types
Fairy type is an incredible defensive typing, as it resists Fighting, Dark and Bug type attacks, but more importantly, Fairy types are immune to Dragon type attacks. This is incredible for Stall teams, as this fact alone can potentially prevent DraMag teams, as well as forcing Dragon types to use their weaker STAB alternative. The extra resistance to Fighting and Bug type attacks is also pretty huge, as they are both very common physical attacks. This I think is going to hinder Volt-turn immensely, while Fighting types have their STAB somewhat nerfed as well, which is great for Stall teams too.
Weather nerf
Weather based teams are going to be much less common this generation, meaning that stall teams will no longer need to worry about boosted Water and Fire type attacks, making special attackers like Keldeo, Volcarona, and Venusaur much easier to deal with. Although there are some dis-advantages to the weather nerf for stall teams too (which I'll get to later), having to no longer take boosted Water and Fire type attacks in huge for stall teams. Dedicated weather based sweepers like Toxicroak and Venusaur I think are going to be a thing of the past, as without unlimited turns to abuse their abilities, they can be potentially stalled out. Because of the lack of weather wars this generation, Dugtrio is going to become less common, because it's main niche was it's ability to trap Tyranitar, that troubled Sun teams. This is also pretty nice for stall teams, as trapping abilities in general are a pain for stall teams.
Sleep count
The sleep mechanics have changed from Generation 5. The sleep count doesn't reset if you switch out, meaning Sleep Talkers become much more viable. Gyarados, Snorlax, and Suicune benefit from this greatly. Speaking of sleep, Grass types are now immune to Spore and Sleep Powder, meaning Celebi, Ferrothorn, Roserade, and other Grass types have just become that much better. With this nerf to Sleep, Breloom isn't going to be troubling stall as much as it did back in generation 5, mainly because nearly every Grass type checks it now.
Hidden Power
Hidden Power's base power has been reduced to a measly base 60 power. This is pretty huge for special walls, as Hidden Power was special attackers main coverage option. 70 base power was already pretty low, but with only 60 base power, you're best off using your Pokemon's STAB attacks, as they generally out power even SE Hidden Power hits. This is great for special walls like Jellicent and Celebi, as Pokemon like Keldeo would often rely on Hidden Power to get past their checks. The choice of hidden power would often determine the counter to the Pokemon using Hidden Power. Take Zapdos for example. Zapdos in gen V UU is countered by Swampert if using HP Ice, and Gligar if using HP Grass. While I still think Hidden Power will be used for x4 super effective damage, I really don't think Hidden Power is going to be as popular as it once was.
New spin blockers
Duoblade and Aeislash are two new Ghost types that seem to have a lot of potential. This is mainly because of their typing and stats. Just for reference, here are Doublade's and Aegislash's information. As you can see, both have incredible bulk, and pretty awesome attack stats. Most importantly however, both can beat Starmie one on one, the premium OU offensive Spinner. When EVed in a certain way, both can take Hydro Pumps very nicely and use Shadow Sneak for huge damage. They both also pack Pursuit, to trap and eliminate Starmie from the game, although this is generally done much better by Scarf Tyranitar.
What makes these two Pokemon so good is one move. King's Shelid. When using this move, if your opponent tries to attack you with a move that makes contact (for reference, that's any move that's affected by Iron Barbs), the user's attack stat is halved. This is absolutely incredible, as it forces physical sweepers to switch out in fear of having their attack halved. Be careful when using this move however, as having a Pokemon set up a Swords Dance or a Substitute is a big fear to keep in mind. Their unique typing allows them to wall some of the most dangerous physical sweepers, including Terrakion, Scizor, and Breloom, some of the best wall breakers of the last generation.
Critical Hits nerf
Critical hits have been reduced in damage from x2 to x1.5, making it easier to stall without being afraid of crits. This also makes it much easier for bulkier sweepers like Reuniclus and Latias to sweep, as critical hits usually spell doom for these Pokemon. While they can still do a lot of damage to these bulky sweepers, and can break through defensive Pokemon, it's not nearly as bad as it used to be.
Sticky Web and Parting Shot
Although not much is known about these two moves yet, they seem to have quite a lot of potential. You can read about Sticky Web and Parting Shot in detail here, but I'll give a brief description of what each move does. Sticky Web is a base 20 power Bug type move, which slows down you opponent's Pokemon as they enter the field. Parting Shot when used lowers the target's Attack and Sp. Atk stats and then the user switches out. Sticky Web has to potential to be incredible for slower based teams, as offensive teams rely on their high speed stat a lot, while Parting Shot is sort of like a defensive U-turn, gaining a ton of momentum for defensive based teams.
New Items (Assult Vest)
While we don't have too much information about the new items, there is one item that seems very interesting. This offensive vest raises Sp. Def but prevents the use of status moves. This item boosts the Pokemon's SpDef stat by 50%, meaning special tanks like Tyranitar and Heatran become that much harder to break through. The only down side to this item is that you can't use status moves, meaning Heatran can't use Toxic, Stealth Rock, or Roar, and Tyranitar can't use Stealth Rock. You also lose Leftovers recovery, which is a pretty massive deal for defensive Pokemon. I'll update this once we have more information on new items.
Negatives
Unfortunately, with the new generation stall also received a few nerfs. Although the benefits far outweigh the cons, the negatives do need to be discussed.
Steel typing
I think the biggest factor is the fact that Steel types lost two resistances. In generation 5, Steel types were one of (if not thee) best defensive typings in the game. This is mainly due to the amount of resistances Steel had and the lack of weaknesses. However, Steel types no longer resist Dark and Ghost type attacks, completely changing how effective Steel types like Skarmory and Jirachi are. Dark types like Tyranitar and Hydreigon can spam their Dark STABs a lot more freely than before, and Skarmory and Scizor can no longer check Tyranitar as easily as they used to.
Defog
Defog really hampers Stall's ability to deal damage, as Stall teas generally rely on indirect damaging moves such as Stealth Rock and Spikes to inflict damage. With the huge buff to Defog, Defog now eliminates all entry hazards on the field. Defog is a Flying type move, meaning it's can't be blocked by Ghost types like Rapid Spin, however it can be Taunt blocked. This might force Stall teams to change their tactics and rely less on entry hazards and phazing to deal any real damage, as well as potentially forcing them to run fast Taunt users to prevent Defog in the first place. Overall, this really is a huge disadvantage for Stall teams.
Weather nerf
Although the nerf to weather abilities is generally a plus, it also has it's negatives for stall teams as well. Pokemon that thrive in weather teams like Ferrothorn and Tentacruel will no longer be boosted by weather, meaning they are generally going to be less effective as they once was. Ferrothorn will no longer be able to tank Hidden Power Fire, while Tentacruel's Rain Dish ability becomes near useless. Hydration Vaporeon also seems like it's going to become non existent, because of the lack of turns it can abuse it's ability. Sun stall and Hail stall will also take a huge hit, and Pokemon like Cresselia and Donphan are going to become much less common.
Mega Evolutions
Generation 6 have brought us Mega Evolutions for loads of Pokemon. Some of these Mega Evolutions greatly hinder stall teams. Mega Gengar gains the ability Shadow Tag, which prevents switching for all non Ghost type Pokemon. This is exceptionally hard for Stall teams to deal with, as stall teams generally don't have the power output to deal with Gengar (as they generally rely on resudiual damage to KO Pokemon). Mega Absol with it's new ability Magic Bounce is also going to trouble stall teams, as Magic Bounce bounces back hazards and status, meaning it's nearly impossible to burn or get up hazards, allowing Mega Absol to easily get up a Swords Dance.
Mega Charizard X can be annoying for stall teams because it's the only Dragon type immune to burn, so it can setup in the face of a lot of Pokemon that would try to burn it, like Jellicent for example. It also has a seriously good STAB combo, resisted only by Heatran and Azumarill. While I don't think it's going to be nearly as common as Mega Charizard X, Mega Charizard Y could potentially be a huge pain for stall as well because it's very powerful and sometimes will have partners like Venusaur and Sawsbuck, but due to the vast amount of competition from other Megas and Mega Zard X being a much better choice in the metagame, it's hard to consider it a common threat to stall, just something to look out for. Although it might not see much usage, Mega Bannette will trouble stall, as it has a priority Taunt and Will-O-Wisp, as stall teams generally rely on non damaging attacks to inflict damage.
Mega Lucario is also going to be a huge pain for stall, as it was generally dealt with by Ground types that were faster than Lucario (Gliscor, and Landorus-T). Now thanks to Mega Lucario's much higher speed stat, Gliscor and Landorus-T no longer out speed it, meaning they are going to be hit hard by Ice Punch. Although regular Lucario does out damage it with Life Orb, the speed is incredible for Lucario, as well as Adaptability boosting it's STAB Close Combat. It's counter is generally going to be decided on what 4th move slot it's using. Variants running Crunch will be dealt with by Gliscor and Landorus-T, while variants with Ice Punch are going to be dealt with by bulky Psychic types like Reuniclus, Mew, and Celebi (as well as Jellicent). Mega Mawile is gonna be hard for stall teams to face, as it has an icredible attack stat when factoring in Huge Power, as well as having access to Sucker Punch.
Conclusion
I think it's fair to say that stall teams greatly benefited from generation 6. While some strategies like Rain stall and Sun stall I think are going to die out, and Steel types are no longer as good as they once was, stall teams are definitely going to be viable this generation. Please consider that this is all just theory-mon, and this thread is mainly based on my opinion. For all we know, offense might dominate, but it's a very interesting topic to discuss. Thanks for reading.
Some general posting guidelines
- post based off actual game data (no phantasy mons)
- no discussion on what Pokemon/move is gonna be banned
- no one line posts
- please be somewhat intelligent when posting
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