I know it's better to use his higher attack, but I'd figure I'd post this since it's the new and creative moveset thread. I think it may rack up a few kills thanks to the suprise factor though. Torrent+Peteya+Stab is nothing to scoff at even though it's coming off a 79 base Special Attack. I'd only use this if I was feeling gimmicky obviously.
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New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread - UU Edition
- Thread starter Lee
- Start date
My problem: Why not just use Blastoise? Less HP, but more special bulk, nearly the same physical bulk, same speed, but more special attack. Sorry, it just seems like a waste of Feraligatr's traits, and Blastoise can run the set arguably better. It's not like Chansey is the typical switch into Blastoise(its typically Mismagius/other ghost, Venusaur/other grass, or Milotic/other water), and it doesn't matter if Chansey switches in one turn or 3 turns later against Feraligatr(after you use Surf), since it will still not do hardly anything. I understand its a gimmick, but I just feel like its one of those things where everyone feels it is necessary to abuse Torrent, Blaze, or Overgrow, as long as you have it, and in reality, few pokemon can abuse those abilities as well as Empoleon.
That kind of Cloyster is pretty standard as a lead these days. And for good reason, because it works very well in a number of common situations.
Here's a Clefable set that I've been thinking of using for a UU team.
Clefable@Life Orb
Magic Guard
(252 HP/160 SpA/ 90Sp D/8 Spe)
Modest
Charge Beam
Icy Wind
Cosmic Power
Wish
With this set, you get a nice mix of power, bulk and support. You can pass wish to team mates, wall with cosmic power/wish, slow down quick sweepers with icy wind (and thus encourage switches to hurt foes with entry hazards, or simply to buy time to use cosmic power or wish.) My thinking is that life orb and the SpA boosts from Charge Beam make up for Charge Beam and Icy wind's lower power, and combined with a modest nature and considerable bulk, will enable this clefable set to stay in for quite a while if necessary.
Clefable@Life Orb
Magic Guard
(252 HP/160 SpA/ 90Sp D/8 Spe)
Modest
Charge Beam
Icy Wind
Cosmic Power
Wish
With this set, you get a nice mix of power, bulk and support. You can pass wish to team mates, wall with cosmic power/wish, slow down quick sweepers with icy wind (and thus encourage switches to hurt foes with entry hazards, or simply to buy time to use cosmic power or wish.) My thinking is that life orb and the SpA boosts from Charge Beam make up for Charge Beam and Icy wind's lower power, and combined with a modest nature and considerable bulk, will enable this clefable set to stay in for quite a while if necessary.
Have you tested this set? Does it fair any better than the CMfable? Spending 6+ turns to set up one pokemon is unreasonable in the current metagame. Setting up defensive boosts alone rarely works, especially there are 120BP STAB fighting attacks running around to hit you SE. Even at +1spa Clefable wont be 1hkoing many fighting types with chargebeam. I can't see this set working before being hit with taunt/encore/phazed/tricked or just plain walled by something like registeel (the #1 UU poke),
Exactly.
The only other one i has some success with is Charizard(Fire Blast hits harder than Surf from Empoleon and can make use of Sunny Day with Solarbeam boosting Fire Blast power to astronomical levels). And that's it.
Feraligatr should be used as a physical Subliechi poke. It's even better for Feraligatr since it can go with DD over Agility, boosting even more the power of Waterfall(or the even more powerful Aqua Tail).
I've done some preliminary testing, and it's actually fared fairly well. Setting up for 6 turns is something that likely (as you yourself have said) won't be possible in the typical game, but the set doesn't need to be set up for that amount of time to be effective. Charge beam boosts itself, and clefable does have the durability (and the immunity to things like toxic damage, burn damage, spikes damage, what have you) to wait 2 or so turns to get 2 boosts.
Additionally, as I said before the main strength of this set is versatility. You can slow down faster sweepers with icy wind, pass wish to teamates, or boost yourself with cosmic power. Superpower and Close combat are threats, to be sure but then again they are threats to every clefable set. And compared to CM clefable you'll have more durability against those moves, thanks to cosmic power's defense boost. It's still not a situation that you want to be put in, but it'll help you hang on long enough to pass a wish to a teamate better able to deal with the fighter in question.
Additionally, as I said before the main strength of this set is versatility. You can slow down faster sweepers with icy wind, pass wish to teamates, or boost yourself with cosmic power. Superpower and Close combat are threats, to be sure but then again they are threats to every clefable set. And compared to CM clefable you'll have more durability against those moves, thanks to cosmic power's defense boost. It's still not a situation that you want to be put in, but it'll help you hang on long enough to pass a wish to a teamate better able to deal with the fighter in question.
Pokemon name: Walrein
Moveset name: SuperBrine
Ability: Ice body; Item: Leftovers
EVs: 220 HP/ 240 Def/ 48 Spe
Move1: Super Fang
Move2: Brine
Move3: Toxic/Roar
Move4: Substitute/Blizzard
With stealth rock damage, Super Fang will almost always get the opponent's HP below half, and then Walrein can unleash its STABed, 130-base-power Brine. Hail support is not required but preferred; some pokemons resist stealth rock, with leftovers they can still pump their HP back to a little more than half, but then hail will again drain their HP down. Bulky EV spread is also preferred, as Super Fang has nothing to do with attack stats. Under Hail, the other two moves can be toxic and substitute, much like the stalling set, or other moves. STABed blizzard hits hard; Earthquake is not preferred, a neutral, STABed Brine will do just as much damage as a super-effective Earthquake, but if you fear water-absorbers or want to dent special walls such as Chanseys, go for it.
If you like the benefit of slowing down fast sweepers you could t-wave them which will make them slower for the entire match vs. one switch in. Cosmic power may give you more durability but are you really going to stay in when you know CC or Superpower is coming? It would be different is this was a lure set to kill dangerous fighting types but you aren't going to kill one with unstabbed chargebeam or icywind, even with LO. In terms of wish passing, I would see it as a waste of Clefable if you get off one wish and die when you could just switch to a ghost-type.
The set just tries to do too much. You can't wall threats, cripple sweepers, pass wish, and setup for a sweep.
Blastoise
252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpA
Lefties/Chesto Berry
-Water Spout
-Rest
-Sleep Talk/Yawn
-Ice Beam
HGSS has blessed Blastoise with Water Spout, making the bulkly "ehhh" starter an option. This is all theorymon, I haven't been able to back anything up but, Water Spout + Rest is a great combo, as shown by Kyogre. If you go with Lefties, go with Sleep Talk. Ice Beam for coverage. But if you go with Chesto, try Yawn to force the switch and allow more Water Spouts. EVs are straight from the "Zzz" set on Smogon.
super fang/brine is an awesome looking combo. I might have to try this, or a variation of this, out for myself.
Pokemon name: Walrein
Moveset name: SuperBrine
Ability: Ice body; Item: Leftovers
EVs: 220 HP/ 240 Def/ 48 Spe
Move1: Super Fang
Move2: Brine
Move3: Toxic/Roar
Move4: Substitute/Blizzard
With stealth rock damage, Super Fang will almost always get the opponent's HP below half, and then Walrein can unleash its STABed, 130-base-power Brine. Hail support is not required but preferred; some pokemons resist stealth rock, with leftovers they can still pump their HP back to a little more than half, but then hail will again drain their HP down. Bulky EV spread is also preferred, as Super Fang has nothing to do with attack stats. Under Hail, the other two moves can be toxic and substitute, much like the stalling set, or other moves. STABed blizzard hits hard; Earthquake is not preferred, a neutral, STABed Brine will do just as much damage as a super-effective Earthquake, but if you fear water-absorbers or want to dent special walls such as Chanseys, go for it.
Camerupt ** LeadRupt
@ Fire Plate
Solid Rock
Quiet Nature (SpA+ / Spe-)
252 HP / 6 Atk / 252 SpA
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power / Will-O-Wisp
- Explosion
Lead Camperupt similar to Heatran in OU without the Speed. Stealth Rock is a given, as it allows Camerupt to support the entire team. Fire Blast is Camerupts main STAB move and deals a minimum of 50% on Uxie, so its a solid 2HKO. Earth Power is for secondary STAB move and hits Rock-types trying to wall this set. Will-O-Wisp is another option over Earth Power to break Froslass' sash. Explosion is the icing to the cake on this set, as it helps weaken walls coming off 237 attack. The EVs are designed like Metagross - take hits thanks to its ability Solid Rock to slice super effective hits.
Anti-Lead Sneasel
Don't think I invented it, but haven't seen it posted anywhere recent, so here's what I've been using:
Sneasel @ Focus Sash
Hasty (+ Spe, - Def)
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 6 SDef
~Taunt
~Counter
~Pursuit
~Ice Punch / Ice Shard
This set allows Sneasel to function relatively well in the lead position, being able to cripple, kill, or even nullify your opponent's leads. Taunt prevents the likes of Uxie from setting up Stealth Rock, Dual Screens, etc...It also stops any Spiking Froslass will be doing, allowing you to KO them with Pursuit while they switch, or 2HKO if they decide to stay in and attack. Counter is great to gain surprise kills on the likes of Ambipom using Fake Out (which Sneasel can take thanks to Focus Sash and Inner Focus), Steelix using Earthquake, or even Uxie's U-turn. The only things not affected by Counter are Ghost-types, which are hit hard by a super effective Pursuit (besides Spiritomb). Pursuit allows you to hit fleeing opponents, and also deal sufficient damage to the likes of Uxie and Froslass, as well as anything that cowers at the sight of Sneasel, such as Venusuar. The last slot is up to you; Ice Punch allows you to 3HKO most Donphan, 2HKO Venusaur, and also provides a more reliably option to hit Rhyperior if the need ever comes. Ice Shard allows you to revenge kill threats such as Rock Polish Torterra, Dragon Dance Altaria, and even Sceptile if Sneasel is alive in late game where these threats are usually common.
I honestly wouldn't bother with Low Kick, as it doesn't do enough to Steelix, Regirock, Registeel, Rhyperior, etc...You're best off Taunting and Coutering them anyway, as it will OHKO all the mentioned whereas Low Kick fails to 2HKO without the glitch in effect (it may fail even with the glitch, but the point is that Low Kick generally does very little from my experiences). From using it extensively, I can safely say it's a great lead that will not only keep Stealth Rock off the field, but also nab surprise kills on the likes of Kangaskhan, Ambipom, and Steel-types like Registeel and Steelix after they've been Taunting. Taking advantage of an opponent's U-turn to kill their switch-in as well as Inner Focus is the best way to play this Sneasel in my opinion.
Comments / Suggestion?
Don't think I invented it, but haven't seen it posted anywhere recent, so here's what I've been using:
Sneasel @ Focus Sash
Hasty (+ Spe, - Def)
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 6 SDef
~Taunt
~Counter
~Pursuit
~Ice Punch / Ice Shard
This set allows Sneasel to function relatively well in the lead position, being able to cripple, kill, or even nullify your opponent's leads. Taunt prevents the likes of Uxie from setting up Stealth Rock, Dual Screens, etc...It also stops any Spiking Froslass will be doing, allowing you to KO them with Pursuit while they switch, or 2HKO if they decide to stay in and attack. Counter is great to gain surprise kills on the likes of Ambipom using Fake Out (which Sneasel can take thanks to Focus Sash and Inner Focus), Steelix using Earthquake, or even Uxie's U-turn. The only things not affected by Counter are Ghost-types, which are hit hard by a super effective Pursuit (besides Spiritomb). Pursuit allows you to hit fleeing opponents, and also deal sufficient damage to the likes of Uxie and Froslass, as well as anything that cowers at the sight of Sneasel, such as Venusuar. The last slot is up to you; Ice Punch allows you to 3HKO most Donphan, 2HKO Venusaur, and also provides a more reliably option to hit Rhyperior if the need ever comes. Ice Shard allows you to revenge kill threats such as Rock Polish Torterra, Dragon Dance Altaria, and even Sceptile if Sneasel is alive in late game where these threats are usually common.
I honestly wouldn't bother with Low Kick, as it doesn't do enough to Steelix, Regirock, Registeel, Rhyperior, etc...You're best off Taunting and Coutering them anyway, as it will OHKO all the mentioned whereas Low Kick fails to 2HKO without the glitch in effect (it may fail even with the glitch, but the point is that Low Kick generally does very little from my experiences). From using it extensively, I can safely say it's a great lead that will not only keep Stealth Rock off the field, but also nab surprise kills on the likes of Kangaskhan, Ambipom, and Steel-types like Registeel and Steelix after they've been Taunting. Taking advantage of an opponent's U-turn to kill their switch-in as well as Inner Focus is the best way to play this Sneasel in my opinion.
Comments / Suggestion?
My main concern with this set is the lack of speed, as Camerupt normally doesn't have to go out of its way much to outrun common base 50s like Donphan and Registeel. With some investment you can outrun these guys and possibly OHKO before they can do anything, otherwise you're open to a powerful EQ / Explosion or letting them set up Rocks before you kill them. I'm also not sure about WoW from your description as you seem to only have it there as an option for Froslass. Lava Plume would be better IMO as it is a reliable Fire attack that is similarly boosted by your plate, and has a 30% chance of killing Froslass in one turn, which is great if she decides to Taunt you first turn in an attempt to prevent Rocks.
Camerupt ** LeadRupt
@ Fire Plate
Solid Rock
Quiet Nature (SpA+ / Spe-)
252 HP / 6 Atk / 252 SpA
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power / Will-O-Wisp
- Explosion
Lead Camperupt similar to Heatran in OU without the Speed. Stealth Rock is a given, as it allows Camerupt to support the entire team. Fire Blast is Camerupts main STAB move and deals a minimum of 50% on Uxie, so its a solid 2HKO. Earth Power is for secondary STAB move and hits Rock-types trying to wall this set. Will-O-Wisp is another option over Earth Power to break Froslass' sash. Explosion is the icing to the cake on this set, as it helps weaken walls coming off 237 attack. The EVs are designed like Metagross - take hits thanks to its ability Solid Rock to slice super effective hits.
As for it as a lead, my concern is that it doesn't do much against the most common leads. Ambipom 2HKOs, Froslass never needs to even predict to beat you if not using WoW / Lava Plume, Cloyster can OHKO with Surf (although not that many carry it) and Alakazam can comfortably 2HKO also, with the ability to Taunt your SR. How is it working for you? Does it pull its weight as a lead as often as you'd like?
This can certainly work well as a lead. The only thing I would possibly suggest is Brick Break so that you can neuter Dual Screen Alakazam. Not sure about what you could replace, probably Counter if anything. You would still be able to 2HKO Ambipom with Brick Break + Ice Shard.
You seem pretty set in your ways with Counter though, so it is probably a futile suggestion anyway. Just remember that Counter is a move with an effectiveness proportional to how expected it is.
I used to use Brick Break > Ice Punch, but I found that it sort of packed Sneasel with too many jobs. If anything, Taunt / Pursuit / Brick Break / Ice Shard could make a whole different set, beating Alakazam and other screeners and keeping Ice Shard at the cost of losing Counter. I like your input, it makes me want to explore things even more. :)
Lucky Bibarel @ Brightpowder
Ability: Simple
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
6 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
-Double Team
-Rest
-Substitute
-Hyper Fang
Simple doubles any stat boosts so after 1 Double Team, Bibarel has +3 evasion, which halves the accuracies of all moves. Additional Double Teams will give you even more evasion. Rest heals off Substitute damage. Hyper Fang does the most damage with your current stats. This build works best with Hail/Sandstorm and entry hazards especially Toxic Spikes. Poison and Hyper Fang will slowly kill the enemy as they go mad just trying to land a single attack on you.
I am NOT outclassed by Infernape
Blaziken (M) @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 12 HP/32 Atk/212 Spd/252 SAtk
Mild nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Agility
- Substitute
- Flamethrower/Fire Blast
- Superpower/Vacuum Wave/Reversal
Yes, I know this is mentioned in "Other Options" in the analysis, but it should be more than just "Other Options". Agility up on the switch, Sub until Petaya and Blaze activate and sweep. Fire Blast does massive damage to those even that resist it (Even in OU, Gyarados (252HP/4SpD), Salamence (236HP/116SpD) and Suicune (252HP/0SpD) are 2HKO'd after Stealth Rock. The real beauty of this set is that unlike other SubPetaya users, Blaziken is NOT walled by Chansey or Blissey. Removal of priority users is a must of course, so Azumarill and co. taken care of before attempting the sweep (Unless you run Vacuum Wave, in which case you leave yourself open to Chansey but you do not require to kill the Revengers, only get them down to low enough HP that Vacuum Wave can kill it). Maximum Special Attack EV's are obvious, 212 Speed EV's lets you outrun +1 +ve Base 100 Scarfers after an Agility, 12 HP EV's are there so your HP is divisible by 4, and the rest go into Attack to deal as much damage with Superpower if necessary.
Lucky Bibarel @ Brightpowder
Ability: Simple
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
6 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
-Double Team
-Rest
-Substitute
-Hyper Fang
Simple doubles any stat boosts so after 1 Double Team, Bibarel has +3 evasion, which halves the accuracies of all moves. Additional Double Teams will give you even more evasion. Rest heals off Substitute damage. Hyper Fang does the most damage with your current stats. This build works best with Hail/Sandstorm and entry hazards especially Toxic Spikes. Poison and Hyper Fang will slowly kill the enemy as they go mad just trying to land a single attack on you.
You do realise Double Team is banned right?
It is a viable enough set in UU, but while it isn't technically outclassed by Infernape in OU, I don't see much in the way of advantages to make it worth using over a SubSalac Nasty Plot Infernape with Close Combat. Isn't Starmie pretty much the only case where Agility is significant here? Because Blaziken isn't beating Latias anytime soon either, and Gengar gets toasted by Fire Blast behind the Sub anyway. Similar case with most Scarfers.
I am NOT outclassed by Infernape
Blaziken (M) @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 12 HP/32 Atk/212 Spd/252 SAtk
Mild nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Agility
- Substitute
- Flamethrower/Fire Blast
- Superpower/Vacuum Wave/Reversal
Yes, I know this is mentioned in "Other Options" in the analysis, but it should be more than just "Other Options". Agility up on the switch, Sub until Petaya and Blaze activate and sweep. Fire Blast does massive damage to those even that resist it (Even in OU, Gyarados (252HP/4SpD), Salamence (236HP/116SpD) and Suicune (252HP/0SpD) are 2HKO'd after Stealth Rock. The real beauty of this set is that unlike other SubPetaya users, Blaziken is NOT walled by Chansey or Blissey. Removal of priority users is a must of course, so Azumarill and co. taken care of before attempting the sweep (Unless you run Vacuum Wave, in which case you leave yourself open to Chansey but you do not require to kill the Revengers, only get them down to low enough HP that Vacuum Wave can kill it). Maximum Special Attack EV's are obvious, 212 Speed EV's lets you outrun +1 +ve Base 100 Scarfers after an Agility, 12 HP EV's are there so your HP is divisible by 4, and the rest go into Attack to deal as much damage with Superpower if necessary.
Feraligator runs into some problems with some of the bulkier pokemon stopping or crippling it after 1 DD. I tried to figure out if there is a way around this and I think I have found an alternative DD moveset that can support offensive teams better early game.
Standard DD EV's Adamant 28 HP / 252 Atk / 228 Spe but change attacking moves to
Waterfall
Crunch
Low Kick
@lum berry
Lum berry is crucial to it's success. Now this moveset changes it's checks however it allows you to beat common wall switch in's for another physical sweeper
Max Def Uxie/Slowbro are 2HKO'd by +1 Crunch. Status is how they usually try and beat Feraligator but here it turns into their demise
Regis-Usually resort to blowing up on Feraligator. In case they decide to thunderwave though you have Low kick which hits Registeel for 120, more than EQ. Careful 252HP takes 71.43% - 84.62%. If they explode, you have gotten rid of a wall for your team.
Cloyster and I guess Lapras- Can now be hit with 120 power 2x SE Low Kick. Cloyster @252HP + Def takes 66.45% - 78.29%
Milotic- Ahhh
+1 Low Kick (100 BP) is only rolling
34.01% - 40.10%
+2 43.65% - 51.52%
+3 54.57% - 64.47%
So Milotic is still sadly a counter but send in something like Toxicroak that uses it as setup.
Losing Ice punch is sad but lets check what Crunch does to threats that resist Water and Fighting.
Venusaur 252 hp/ 0 Def Bold 35.99% - 42.58%
Offensinve 4hp takes 47.68% - 56.29%
Altaria 72hp/0 Def Adamant 44.01% - 51.78%
Probably more but these are the ones I encountered while testing this out. Not pitiful but not pathetic either.
Offensive Toxicroak who walls this moveset takes 28.25% - 33.44% from Crunch.
Standard DD EV's Adamant 28 HP / 252 Atk / 228 Spe but change attacking moves to
Waterfall
Crunch
Low Kick
@lum berry
Lum berry is crucial to it's success. Now this moveset changes it's checks however it allows you to beat common wall switch in's for another physical sweeper
Max Def Uxie/Slowbro are 2HKO'd by +1 Crunch. Status is how they usually try and beat Feraligator but here it turns into their demise
Regis-Usually resort to blowing up on Feraligator. In case they decide to thunderwave though you have Low kick which hits Registeel for 120, more than EQ. Careful 252HP takes 71.43% - 84.62%. If they explode, you have gotten rid of a wall for your team.
Cloyster and I guess Lapras- Can now be hit with 120 power 2x SE Low Kick. Cloyster @252HP + Def takes 66.45% - 78.29%
Milotic- Ahhh
+1 Low Kick (100 BP) is only rolling
34.01% - 40.10%
+2 43.65% - 51.52%
+3 54.57% - 64.47%
So Milotic is still sadly a counter but send in something like Toxicroak that uses it as setup.
Losing Ice punch is sad but lets check what Crunch does to threats that resist Water and Fighting.
Venusaur 252 hp/ 0 Def Bold 35.99% - 42.58%
Offensinve 4hp takes 47.68% - 56.29%
Altaria 72hp/0 Def Adamant 44.01% - 51.78%
Probably more but these are the ones I encountered while testing this out. Not pitiful but not pathetic either.
Offensive Toxicroak who walls this moveset takes 28.25% - 33.44% from Crunch.
If your goal is to hurt walls early on why not use swords dance? The only pokemon you listed that would run enough Spe EV's to beat you are Saur and Milo who, based on your calcs, feraligator isn't beating ayway. Now with +2 attack you get:
the 1hko on Registeel with leftovers (95.60%-112%) and on cloyster (88.82%-104.6%)
The chance of a 2HKO on milotic with lefties+sr is 60%
2HKO's are the same on Bro and Uxie. Altaria will be in trouble with sr on the field. Venusar is still up in the air as the amount of sets flying around is just silly but without a SE attack most waters wont be able to take it down anyway.
+2 lowkick gets the 2HKO on Omastar (utility set)
You also overlooked Tangrowth and Leafeon. You have no chance against monjobo even at +2 as a 100BP lowkick is only doing 30% and crunch is hitting leafeon for 46% (136HP adamant) and he outspeeds.
im using this on a hyper offensive team im trying:
Mismagius@Life Orb (Kayako)
Levitate
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid
-Nasty Plot
-Shadow Ball
-Thunderbolt/Hidden Power [Fighting]
-Grudge
this is the standard NPMissy with a twist, and that is the grudge as the last slot (i didnt actually intend for it but i was looking through missys moves and lol). this is the idea:
Missy used Nasty Plot
Opponent sent in [insert sucker puncher here]
Opponent used sucker punch, but it failed
Missy used grudge
now theyre in a bad situation, they can either use sucker punch and lose all its PP, or they can eat missys +2 attack.
it can also work to eliminate other useful stuff, like pursuits, night slashes, or in one case, an opposing mismagius's shadow balls ^^
but it really opens up sweeps for other [insert dark weak poke here], like alakazam?
Mismagius@Life Orb (Kayako)
Levitate
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid
-Nasty Plot
-Shadow Ball
-Thunderbolt/Hidden Power [Fighting]
-Grudge
this is the standard NPMissy with a twist, and that is the grudge as the last slot (i didnt actually intend for it but i was looking through missys moves and lol). this is the idea:
Missy used Nasty Plot
Opponent sent in [insert sucker puncher here]
Opponent used sucker punch, but it failed
Missy used grudge
now theyre in a bad situation, they can either use sucker punch and lose all its PP, or they can eat missys +2 attack.
it can also work to eliminate other useful stuff, like pursuits, night slashes, or in one case, an opposing mismagius's shadow balls ^^
but it really opens up sweeps for other [insert dark weak poke here], like alakazam?
mmm that would make a lot more sense... ill go change it xD