Aegislash

[TheTraininator]

Ok, once the changes are made (including the set swapping)...

QC Approved 1/3

Wow, 8 pages before the first QC Approval. Damn, makes you wonder what the record is.

 

[apt-get]

Why isn't the crumbler first set, with head smash/shadow ball/sacred sword/shadow sneak? You basically beat all of the things subtoxic beats, and nothing can switch in, even more obscure checks like volcarona. Zapdos is always OHKOed by head smash, mandi is with SR, hippo is 2HKOed with one layer of spikes, and landorus-T/garchomp are KOed by ball+sneak. I guess chesnaught somewhat walls it, but it's better than subtoxic, at least for me.

 

[CrashinBoomBang]

Because using any set that isn't the Tank or SubToxic really cuts into Aegislash's longevity. Killing everything is nice, yes, but part of the reason Aegislash is as powerful as it is is the fact that it bears offensive AND defensive capabilities past that of most regular Pokemon. Using Life Orb with no bulk investment really destroys any and all staying power Aegislash has; you'd be surprised how easy it is to heal up even a hurt Aegislash with smart switching, King's Shield and Leftovers. One of those "generally more useful" sets that actually makes use of its wonderful ability and stat spread should definitely be the first set in the analysis.

 

[Fuzznip]

The Autotomize set should be removed and sent to OO. It's awful and a complete waste of Aegislash's potential.

 

[Colonel M]

Nevermind that Head Smash is a death sentence without the assistance of Rock Head as an ability. SubToxic does a fantastic job trolling most of Aegislash's counters and checks.

 

[alexwolf]

Implemented everything, ready for more QC checks.

 

[Aircraft Cemetery]

Just one nitpick, but are the 12 speed EVs really that crucial on every tanky set? They are obviously only there for Tyranitar, which is the only pokemon in the 61 base speed tier.

I think that the 12 speed EVs are really only useful on sets that don't use a -Spe nature and that do carry Sacred Sword. Why? Because first of all, it seems really naive to run speed investment only to outrun one pokemon in the entire game and only if that said pokemon uses a -Spe Nature (which Ttar rarely does, it's usually Jolly or Adamant). Also, if you don't have Sacred Sword (or Iron Head to a lesser extent), you usually lose 1v1 against Tyranitar anyway, no matter if you're faster or not.

What does this mean? Well, the 12 speed EVs are really useless on all Quiet sets, plus on all sets that don't use either Sacred Sword or a fully atk-invested Iron Head. Am I missing something?

EDIT: Also bear in mind that if two healthy Aegislash are facing off against each other, the slower one will come out on top.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

Just one nitpick, but are the 12 speed EVs really that crucial on every tanky set? They are obviously only there for Tyranitar, which is the only pokemon in the 61 base speed tier.

I think that the 12 speed EVs are really only useful on sets that don't use a -Spe nature and that do carry Sacred Sword. Why? Because first of all, it seems really naive to run speed investment only to outrun one pokemon in the entire game and only if that said pokemon uses a -Spe Nature (which Ttar rarely does, it's usually Jolly or Adamant). Also, if you don't have Sacred Sword (or Iron Head to a lesser extent), you usually lose 1v1 against Tyranitar anyway, no matter if you're faster or not.

What does this mean? Well, the 12 speed EVs are really useless on all Quiet sets, plus on all sets that don't use either Sacred Sword or a fully atk-invested Iron Head. Am I missing something?

EDIT: Also bear in mind that if two healthy Aegislash are facing off against each other, the slower one will come out on top.

I agree, I feel like Sassy (AV) Ttar was all the rage in october but fell heavily out of favor, Relaxed Phys Def Ttar is probably more common now but most Ttars by far are as you said Adamant or Jolly and Aegislash needs a Life Orb to even have a chance to OHKO the Phys Def set after SR (104 Atk EVs + Life Orb guarantee the OHKO after rocks) so if you're not using a LO there's no point in outspeeding -nature Ttar, in fact it can OHKO back with uninvested Crunch/EQ or even Fire Blast (though the latter needs SR and a high roll).

 

[RicepigeonKKM]

Aside from the Swords Dance set, does Skarmory really check/counter any of the other sets Aegislash carries? Only specially defensive Skarmory can really take a Shadow Ball as long as it has a +SpDef nature and Stealth Rock isnt up, but even then, if Aegislash is carrying Spooky Plate, its still a 2HKO:

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 144-171 (43.1 - 51.1%) -- 57.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Spooky Plate Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 172-204 (51.4 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Skarmory seems like a shaky check/counter, if at all, unless there's something I'm missing that merits listing it under checks/counters (is the Swords Dance set even used anymore?)

 

[Jukain]

Aside from the Swords Dance set, does Skarmory really check/counter any of the other sets Aegislash carries? Only specially defensive Skarmory can really take a Shadow Ball as long as it has a +SpDef nature and Stealth Rock isnt up, but even then, if Aegislash is carrying Spooky Plate, its still a 2HKO:

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 144-171 (43.1 - 51.1%) -- 57.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Spooky Plate Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 172-204 (51.4 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Skarmory seems like a shaky check/counter, if at all, unless there's something I'm missing that merits listing it under checks/counters (is the Swords Dance set even used anymore?)

Yeah it definitely is a shaky check/counter, especially since the SD set usually (or should usually) carries Head Smash, which OHKOes after SR at +2. Probably isn't worth listing.

On Speed EVs for Tank/SubToxic

Ok so...I definitely endorse the removal of the 12 Spe EVs. Usually you can't risk it against Tyranitar, and it's actually disadvantageous to have more Speed against Tyranitar, as it is able to take a Sacred Sword assuming physically defensive and KO with EQ in return. In this scenario, undercreeping is definitely best, even just for other Aegislash, but we won't mention this in the analysis. IMO 12 Spe EVs is a wasted and unwise investment, especially when they are less useful in the prescribed scenario for their use and Mega DD/Scarf so much more common/better.

Swords Dance

Head Smash: I think that Head Smash should be the first, and potentially only, slash on SD. A lot of the reason to run that set lies in Head Smash's utility of luring in and KOing Mandibuzz, Skarmory, Rotom-W, Landorus-T, and a number of other things that Head Smash just slaughters. Although it will typically result in a large health loss to Aegislash by nature, the ability to deal with these Pokemon is incredibly significant and makes it worthy of a primary if not solitary slash.

4 leftover EVs: It doesn't need the 4 EVs in SpD for Genesect anymore -- there is literally no reason to run them there.

Checks and Counters

Quagsire

Quagsire seems like an incredibly shaky way of handling Aegislash. Look at the Shadow Ball calc:

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 228-268 (57.8 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

An easy 2HKO simply isn't acceptable from Aegislash's most spammed move for this to be called an even decent Aegislash check/counter. It can handle it in isolated 1v1 scenarios, but without any consistency in general it makes for a poor way to handle it overall.

---

This section should really have a section dedicated to Knock Off. Random Knock Offs from the likes of Thundurus, Mega Venusaur, Azumarill, Tornadus-T, etc. make for a large deterrent to Aegislash, posing a severe threat. This is a way a lot of Pokemon deal with Aegislash switch-ins.

Earthquake is also an extremely notable move, as it is the bread-and-butter physical attack used to bypass King's Shield. Earthquakes from the likes of Terrakion, (Mega) Tyranitar, and Mega Venusaur eliminate/drastically reduce the threat level of King's Shield to them and make Aegislash much easier to get around.

---

Add:
- SDef Dragonite as a good check to your typical Tank Aegislash
- Mega Gyarados as it can set up in standard Aegislash's face
- Bulky SD Mega Scizor is can set up on/threaten Aegislash offensively
- Umbreon as a good defensive check
- Landorus as a prime way of threatening it offensively (OHKOes with Sheer Force LO Earth Power)
- AV Conk which takes hits from it pretty and actually benefits from SubToxic's presence, at least to some extent, and can hit it with Knock Off
- Specs Keldeo isn't switching in easily, but can deal a lot of damage to it with its Specs-boosted Water STABs
- Mega Venusaur, especially SDef, can take Shadow Balls from it nicely and threaten in return with EQ/Knock Off/Sleep Powder, or even Leech Seed just to wear it down
- Specially defensive Rhyperior can tank any physical hits easily and tank Shadow Balls decently whilst posing a significant offensive threat in return (it can OHKO)
- Clefable which pretty much just sets up on Aegislash without a Steel-type attack/Toxic (which Magic Guard variants can avoid)
- Amoonguss which with SDef investment can easily take a hit and KO in return with Foul Play
- Tyranitar as posing a significant offensive threat if Aegislash is weakened (with EQ) and even pretty much walling it if physically defensive
- AV Slowking as it can take two Shadow Balls and easily KOes with Fire Blast
- Mega Blastoise as a spinner that poses a huge offensive threat with Mega Launcher-boosted Dark Pulse
- AV Azumarill with Knock Off, which is able to take the hits from SBall pretty easily and deal massive damage with Knock Off in return
- Mirror Coat Deoxys-D, which isn't really a check/counter in terms of switching in, but definitely puts a damper on it because Aegislash is otherwise a really good counterlead to it. If you're willing also mention Mirror Coat Alomomola :]
- Assault Vest Escavalier with Drill Run which can easily take SBall and KO back, and isn't phazed by Toxic
- Mega Absol as another offensive check

Offensive

• Air Balloon lets Aegislash spinblock Excadrill once, which is very useful for HO teams. Checking Ground-types once is very useful in general for HO teams

It isn't really 'once' if you play with it well. You can force out the Ground-type and keep Aegislash's Balloon intact through smart play. The emphasis on being a one-time check shouldn't be there.

Physical Thundurus should be mentioned as another offensive Defiant partner in addition to Bisharp.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

I feel like Air Balloon Aegislash is actually very underrated now that a lot of the excadrills are scarfed, it can't really do anything to it except pop it's balloon with a weak hit.

 

[alexwolf]

Yeah it definitely is a shaky check/counter, especially since the SD set usually (or should usually) carries Head Smash, which OHKOes after SR at +2. Probably isn't worth listing.

On Speed EVs for Tank/SubToxic

Ok so...I definitely endorse the removal of the 12 Spe EVs. Usually you can't risk it against Tyranitar, and it's actually disadvantageous to have more Speed against Tyranitar, as it is able to take a Sacred Sword assuming physically defensive and KO with EQ in return. In this scenario, undercreeping is definitely best, even just for other Aegislash, but we won't mention this in the analysis. IMO 12 Spe EVs is a wasted and unwise investment, especially when they are less useful in the prescribed scenario for their use and Mega DD/Scarf so much more common/better.

Swords Dance

Head Smash: I think that Head Smash should be the first, and potentially only, slash on SD. A lot of the reason to run that set lies in Head Smash's utility of luring in and KOing Mandibuzz, Skarmory, Rotom-W, Landorus-T, and a number of other things that Head Smash just slaughters. Although it will typically result in a large health loss to Aegislash by nature, the ability to deal with these Pokemon is incredibly significant and makes it worthy of a primary if not solitary slash.

4 leftover EVs: It doesn't need the 4 EVs in SpD for Genesect anymore -- there is literally no reason to run them there.

Checks and Counters

Quagsire seems like an incredibly shaky way of handling Aegislash. Look at the Shadow Ball calc:

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 228-268 (57.8 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

An easy 2HKO simply isn't acceptable from Aegislash's most spammed move for this to be called an even decent Aegislash check/counter. It can handle it in isolated 1v1 scenarios, but without any consistency in general it makes for a poor way to handle it overall.

---

This section should really have a section dedicated to Knock Off. Random Knock Offs from the likes of Thundurus, Mega Venusaur, Azumarill, Tornadus-T, etc. make for a large deterrent to Aegislash, posing a severe threat. This is a way a lot of Pokemon deal with Aegislash switch-ins.

Earthquake is also an extremely notable move, as it is the bread-and-butter physical attack used to bypass King's Shield. Earthquakes from the likes of Terrakion, (Mega) Tyranitar, and Mega Venusaur eliminate/drastically reduce the threat level of King's Shield to them and make Aegislash much easier to get around.

---

Add:
- SDef Dragonite as a good check to your typical Tank Aegislash
- Mega Gyarados as it can set up in standard Aegislash's face
- Bulky SD Mega Scizor is can set up on/threaten Aegislash offensively
- Umbreon as a good defensive check
- Landorus as a prime way of threatening it offensively (OHKOes with Sheer Force LO Earth Power)
- AV Conk which takes hits from it pretty and actually benefits from SubToxic's presence, at least to some extent, and can hit it with Knock Off
- Specs Keldeo isn't switching in easily, but can deal a lot of damage to it with its Specs-boosted Water STABs
- Mega Venusaur, especially SDef, can take Shadow Balls from it nicely and threaten in return with EQ/Knock Off/Sleep Powder, or even Leech Seed just to wear it down
- Specially defensive Rhyperior can tank any physical hits easily and tank Shadow Balls decently whilst posing a significant offensive threat in return (it can OHKO)
- Clefable which pretty much just sets up on Aegislash without a Steel-type attack/Toxic (which Magic Guard variants can avoid)
- Amoonguss which with SDef investment can easily take a hit and KO in return with Foul Play
- Tyranitar as posing a significant offensive threat if Aegislash is weakened (with EQ) and even pretty much walling it if physically defensive
- AV Slowking as it can take two Shadow Balls and easily KOes with Fire Blast
- Mega Blastoise as a spinner that poses a huge offensive threat with Mega Launcher-boosted Dark Pulse
- AV Azumarill with Knock Off, which is able to take the hits from SBall pretty easily and deal massive damage with Knock Off in return
- Mirror Coat Deoxys-D, which isn't really a check/counter in terms of switching in, but definitely puts a damper on it because Aegislash is otherwise a really good counterlead to it. If you're willing also mention Mirror Coat Alomomola :]
- Assault Vest Escavalier with Drill Run which can easily take SBall and KO back, and isn't phazed by Toxic
- Mega Absol as another offensive check

Offensive

It isn't really 'once' if you play with it well. You can force out the Ground-type and keep Aegislash's Balloon intact through smart play. The emphasis on being a one-time check shouldn't be there.

Physical Thundurus should be mentioned as another offensive Defiant partner in addition to Bisharp.

Did most of this except from:

I kept Quagsire, which is a hard counter to SD sets.

Didn't include SpD Rhyperior, as it doesn't have a main set.

Didn't include AV Slowking, as it's 2HKOed by Shadow Ball with SR up.

Didn't include Mirror Coat Deoxys-D, it's not a check nor a counter, just a lure.

Didn't include AV Azumarill, as King's Shield makes it huge set up fodder for anything, and it can only switch in once.

Dind't specifically mention Specs Keldeo, will give it a small mention in Pokemon that can hird Aegislash though when i write this up.

 

[Swamp Link]

Please put AV Slowking in C&C. It is a hard counter if hazards are not up and a check if they are because it will definitely beat Aegislash 1v1. Even if it's not perfect because it does get 2HKOd by Shadow Ball with prior damage, it is still a good check that will always win if it gets in for free barring some hax.

 

[Johny Cid]

Not sure how relevant this is but...

252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 12 Def Aegislash-Shield: 270-320 (83.8 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

This spread allows Aegi to survive a max attack Lando-T EQ at full health... and I don't think it compromises its overall bulk.

EDIT: This would be for the tank set and SubToxic...

 

[Ash Borer]

part of the appeal of Sub Toxic is to beat Chesnaught, however it naturally outspeeds you therefore 1v1 you lose to it as Leech Seed will connect with you. An alternative spread that outpaces is worth mentioning perhaps.

Wait nevermind, thats already been mentioned. Ill go over this and stamp it later, most of it looks quite good.

 

[alexwolf]

Please put AV Slowking in C&C. It is a hard counter if hazards are not up and a check if they are because it will definitely beat Aegislash 1v1. Even if it's not perfect because it does get 2HKOd by Shadow Ball with prior damage, it is still a good check that will always win if it gets in for free barring some hax.

Something that can only check something else once without SR up is not a hard counter, hell, not even a hard check, just a soft check. Aegislash usually either spams Shadow Ball or Sub, meaning that Slowking will have to tank two Shadow Balls before landing a hit. SR is a very common condition, meaning that Slowking will fail to even check Aegislash more often than not. Still, if you insist i can mention it as the softest of checks.

And thx Johny Cid, i will change the spread.

 

[Jukain]

Did most of this except from:

I kept Quagsire, which is a hard counter to SD sets.

Didn't include SpD Rhyperior, as it doesn't have a main set.

Didn't include AV Slowking, as it's 2HKOed by Shadow Ball with SR up.

Didn't include Mirror Coat Deoxys-D, it's not a check nor a counter, just a lure.

Didn't include AV Azumarill, as King's Shield makes it huge set up fodder for anything, and it can only switch in once.

Dind't specifically mention Specs Keldeo, will give it a small mention in Pokemon that can hird Aegislash though when i write this up.

Add SpD Rhyperior. I've talked with people about this, it's a good set with a good niche. It should be in the analysis if it isn't, please just add it.

I think Mirror Coat Deo-D is good as 'something to watch out for' when you're facing Deo-D and w/e. Especially since Aegislash is an extremely good Deo-D anti-lead otherwise this is significant.

 

[alexwolf]

Add SpD Rhyperior. I've talked with people about this, it's a good set with a good niche. It should be in the analysis if it isn't, please just add it.

I think Mirror Coat Deo-D is good as 'something to watch out for' when you're facing Deo-D and w/e. Especially since Aegislash is an extremely good Deo-D anti-lead otherwise this is significant.

Done.

 

[Ash Borer]

This looks quite good and I'd like to see this analysis progress further. The only thing I'd like to se changed is the slashing on the primary set

1) Shadow sneak in my opinion is not compulsory

The reason for this is that it is exceedingly weak with no investment or boosting item while Sacred Sword can cover some important pokes like Bisharp/Ttar who beat you otherwise. Slash Sacred Sword or something here

2) FLash Cannon > Iron Head

You have SpA investment so it does more to a typical Mandibuzz, Chesnaught, Clefable, and it still gets the 2HKO on Sylveon and max hp Tyranitar. Im not sure why Iron Head is better. It can help deal with CM clefable better however it certainly cant set up on you

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Clefable: 234-276 (59.3 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

3) Pursuit should not be the primary slash

I know there was some hype for Purusitrecently, it totally destroys LAtios/Latios however thats quite frankly all it does. Its SUPER SUPER weak without investment/boosting item so youre really just wasting a turn hitting anything but a weak to it on hte switch out. Not every team demands these pokes be removed

0 Atk Aegislash-Blade Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 59-70 (21.2 - 25.1%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO

you do 40-50% to something as hilariously frail as min def mega garde. That is no damage.

The rest of analysis looks quite good to me. So yeah make thes changes and

QC 2/4

 

[Swamp Link]

I disagree, Flash Cannon doesn't do enough to Mandibuzz anyway on that set, and Iron Head is extremely important to be able to switch into it and still stop it, since it can CM on the switch, and then outspeed you and CM again, avoiding the 2HKO.

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Clefable: 176-210 (44.6 - 53.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 216-254 (54.8 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mandibuzz: 168-198 (39.6 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Mandibuzz can just roost in your face all day with either move and break you down with Foul Play. On the Life Orb set, Flash Cannon is better, but here I believe Iron Head is more valuable.

 

[Ash Borer]

flash cannon can potentially beat a weakened mandi but yeah ill concede iron head has uses.

 

[alexwolf]

This looks quite good and I'd like to see this analysis progress further. The only thing I'd like to se changed is the slashing on the primary set

1) Shadow sneak in my opinion is not compulsory

The reason for this is that it is exceedingly weak with no investment or boosting item while Sacred Sword can cover some important pokes like Bisharp/Ttar who beat you otherwise. Slash Sacred Sword or something here

2) FLash Cannon > Iron Head

You have SpA investment so it does more to a typical Mandibuzz, Chesnaught, Clefable, and it still gets the 2HKO on Sylveon and max hp Tyranitar. Im not sure why Iron Head is better. It can help deal with CM clefable better however it certainly cant set up on you

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Clefable: 234-276 (59.3 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

3) Pursuit should not be the primary slash

I know there was some hype for Purusitrecently, it totally destroys LAtios/Latios however thats quite frankly all it does. Its SUPER SUPER weak without investment/boosting item so youre really just wasting a turn hitting anything but a weak to it on hte switch out. Not every team demands these pokes be removed

0 Atk Aegislash-Blade Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 59-70 (21.2 - 25.1%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO

you do 40-50% to something as hilariously frail as min def mega garde. That is no damage.

The rest of analysis looks quite good to me. So yeah make thes changes and

QC 2/4

Thx, implemented!

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Sorry for the wait alexwolf

Feel free to write this up now.

 

[alexwolf]

Thx AG.

 

[Nave Guy]

Could you have attack investment on the tank set and run another coverage move/shadow claw/SD? You're running 2 attacking moves anyway, and even though you get a less powerful single move more of the moves do more damage.