Pokémon Primarina

[Jojobobo]

I'm kind of curious why this pokemon is still considered OU relevant? This isn't a case of me asking a question where I have twenty counter arguments lined up and I want a flame war, I just really am wondering why it would have any sort of appeal over easier and more spammable options.

It has reasonable SpAtk but the speed is atrocious, the coverage (until move tutors at least) is somewhat skimpy, and it has no way to boost. Personally I'd rather take Fini or Azumarill on balance teams for the shared typing any day (particularly the bulkier Fini, who seems to have many more legit options than Primarina). What am I missing, other than the Specs set being a little hard to switch into (which could be said of any half-way viable specs set really)?

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

I'm kind of curious why this pokemon is still considered OU relevant? This isn't a case of me asking a question where I have twenty counter arguments lined up and I want a flame war, I just really am wondering why it would have any sort of appeal over easier and more spammable options.

It has reasonable SpAtk but the speed is atrocious, the coverage (until move tutors at least) is somewhat skimpy, and it has no way to boost. Personally I'd rather take Fini or Azumarill on balance teams for the shared typing any day (particularly the bulkier Fini, who seems to have many more legit options than Primarina). What am I missing, other than the Specs set being a little hard to switch into (which could be said of any half-way viable specs set really)?

Who's considering it OU relevant? It's a niche pick but that's why it's C-.

But... "Reasonable SpAtk"? It has one of the highest SpA stats of any water type, especially when you take into account that it can reasonable run Modest (unlike Keldeo,) the poor speed is mitigated by good special bulk and great defensive typing. Only Modest Volcanion and Greninja (after Battle Bond transform) are higher.

It also has perfect coverage with STABs+Psychic, the only thing it misses out on is Ferrothorn who is covered by HP Fire. "A little hard to switch into" is an understatement, nothing likes taking hits from it at all.

Tapu Fini is absolutely better but for filling a completely different role, and Azumarill is honestly a pretty mediocre pick in OU at the moment as well.

 

[Dakress]

Personally I'd rather take Fini or Azumarill on balance teams for the shared typing any day (particularly the bulkier Fini, who seems to have many more legit options than Primarina). What am I missing, other than the Specs set being a little hard to switch into (which could be said of any half-way viable specs set really)?

It's a viable option if you need a Choice Specs user that's bulky, not weak to EQ and Stealth Rock and can tank anything Ash Greninja throws at you. While I agree base 60 speed is pretty bad, it's enought to outspeed most walls and still afford to tank some hits. There's also the fact that Torrent, despite being very "meh" as far as abilities go, gives it a pretty insane boost when is worn down :

252+ SpA Choice Specs Psychic Terrain Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 200 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde: 271-319 (66.5 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Torrent Primarina Hydro Pump vs. 200 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde: 324-382 (79.6 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Also, why does people keep thinking Primarina and Fini do the same thing? Is it a meme or something?

 

[Siggu]

Primarina has a small advantage in that it does not really have competition as a special nuke typing-wise.

For Fairy, Mega Gardevoir is not available (and Tapu Lele is more of a Psychic nuke than a Fairy one).
For Water, Keldeo hates the Fairy-dominant meta.

Although my guess is that once the Gardevoirite returns (assuming it does, of course... right, Game Freak?) finding a reason for using Primarina will be much more difficult.

 

[Talpr0ne]

252+ SpA Choice Specs Primarina Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 250-295 (73.3 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 211-249 (61.8 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 232-274 (68 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It's interesting to note that the Pixilate nerf has made Gardevoir significantly weaker than Primarina, and of course Primarina has its own significant advantages over Gardevoir, like providing actual defensive synergy and not being a mega. Gardevoir itself honestly, once released, would face severe competition from Tapu Lele as a Psychic-Fairy type and from Mega Diancie as a Fairy type mega, so I'm not sure it would be a great Pokémon anymore, unless both of these Pokémon are banned.

With that said Primarina does have a similar Pokémon competing for the role of a slow Fairy nuke in Specs Magearna, which is stronger, can pivot with Volt Switch and has better bulk and for the most part typing. Being a Water type definitely has its advantages, however.

 

[Jojobobo]

Who's considering it OU relevant? It's a niche pick but that's why it's C-.

But... "Reasonable SpAtk"? It has one of the highest SpA stats of any water type, especially when you take into account that it can reasonable run Modest (unlike Keldeo,) the poor speed is mitigated by good special bulk and great defensive typing. Only Modest Volcanion and Greninja (after Battle Bond transform) are higher.

It also has perfect coverage with STABs+Psychic, the only thing it misses out on is Ferrothorn who is covered by HP Fire. "A little hard to switch into" is an understatement, nothing likes taking hits from it at all.

Tapu Fini is absolutely better but for filling a completely different role, and Azumarill is honestly a pretty mediocre pick in OU at the moment as well.

The mods locked a lot of threads that weren't considered OU relevant, therefore by implication it seems like Primarina is still considered relevant. I'd say that Fini can fill a similar role with CM, obviously it doesn't have the same innate wall-breaking power but there are similarities.

As you mentioned it also seems that Specs Ash-Greninja is fundamentally better, as it hits harder with its water STABs and its speed is usable unlike Primarina who is easy enough to take down the plethora of strong and faster threats in the tier. When you add in that Greninja can pivot out, even if its secondary typing is worse offensively and defensively it seems like it trumps Primarina in most circumstances. That there is better faster threats with the same water typing (Greninja) and similar speed threats with the same water typing (Volcanion), it just doesn't seem worth a look-in even though as you point out it has strong capabilities itself. I suppose it's something that needs much more support to make workable.

Also, why does people keep thinking Primarina and Fini do the same thing? Is it a meme or something?

I never said they did, in fact I said more or less the opposite as I stated plainly that Fini has more options. Saying that one mon has more options than another is making it very obvious that they different things. There's no need to be rude and insult people's intelligence.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Primarina Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 250-295 (73.3 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 211-249 (61.8 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 232-274 (68 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It's interesting to note that the Pixilate nerf has made Gardevoir significantly weaker than Primarina, and of course Primarina has its own significant advantages over Gardevoir, like providing actual defensive synergy and not being a mega. Gardevoir itself honestly, once released, would face severe competition from Tapu Lele as a Psychic-Fairy type and from Mega Diancie as a Fairy type mega, so I'm not sure it would be a great Pokémon anymore, unless both of these Pokémon are banned.

With that said Primarina does have a similar Pokémon competing for the role of a slow Fairy nuke in Specs Magearna, which is stronger, can pivot with Volt Switch and has better bulk and for the most part typing. Being a Water type definitely has its advantages, however.

I think you've most clearly laid out a case for viability, demonstrating the high power but also mentioning the defensive role of the typing - so thanks for that as I was curious. I suppose its that combo that lets it shine, just that it's hard to easily put it on a team.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

The mods locked a lot of threads that weren't considered OU relevant, therefore by implication it seems like Primarina is still considered relevant.

Kommo-o and Minior's threads didn't get locked either and I'd say they're about as relevant to OU as Primarina.

 

[Dakress]

I never said they did, in fact I said more or less the opposite as I stated plainly that Fini has more options. Saying that one mon has more options than another is making it very obvious that they different things. There's no need to be rude and insult people's intelligence.

I see a lot of people that think Fini and Primarina share the same role and that the former completly outclasses it, and because I derped really badly I thought you were doing the same mistake. Granted, I agree that Fini has the advantage of pulling a CM set, but at the same time I think that's kinda wasting it's support and stallbreaking potential.

That doesn't mean, however, that my overreaction regarding was justified, and for that I apologize.

Kommo-o and Minior's threads didn't get locked either and I'd say they're about as relevant to OU as Primarina.

I believe Decidueye's thread is still open too, but it hasn't seen some activity for quite a while (and the last time I saw one on Pokebank OU was to pass SD boosts), so I wonder that's up with that.

 

[Jojobobo]

Kommo-o and Minior's threads didn't get locked either and I'd say they're about as relevant to OU as Primarina.

I guess they're probably less relevant, which makes me wonder why I didn't zone in on one of the first (and also question slightly if the mods are crazy). Possibly more will be locked in time.

I see a lot of people that think Fini and Primarina share the same role and that the former completly outclasses it, and because I derped really badly I thought you were doing the same mistake. Granted, I agree that Fini has the advantage of pulling a CM set, but at the same time I think that's kinda wasting it's support and stallbreaking potential.

That doesn't mean, however, that my overreaction regarding was justified, and for that I apologize.

No offence taken, and yeah I the stallbreaker Fini set does seem to outclass and offer more utility than most of the others.

 

[Dragontamer]

It also has perfect coverage with STABs+Psychic, the only thing it misses out on is Ferrothorn who is covered by HP Fire. "A little hard to switch into" is an understatement, nothing likes taking hits from it at all.

I've been running STABs + Shadow Ball personally. Fairy / Ghost is a great offensive pairing, with Hydro Pump as the nuclear option. Psychic is a good option for Venusaur / Toxapex / etc. etc.

Primarina is a nuke that can switch into (most) Ash-Greninja all day long (Protean has Gunk Shot, so be sure to scout before jumping in). I guess you need to worry about Grass Knot, but not a lot of people seem to be running that. In any case, Ash-Greninja check + Hydro Pump is a nice niche.

Keldeo has major moveslot issues, Hydro Pump and Secret Sword are great and all, but Keldeo's next best coverage move is lol Icy Wind. So... that's it for coverage. As such, Keldeo can't get past many common walls, like Toxapex, Slowbro, Venusaur or Tapu Fini (Beware the Energy Ball yo) while Primarina can be built to blow past them. Primarina suffers from 4MSS, since it can't run everything... but it has a great movepool to work with.

Basically, Keldeo is a late-game sweeper / win condition. You gotta get through the opponent's walls and then it has a good chance of threatening a sweep. Primarina is an early-game pivot / nuke to blast holes into the opponent's team.

Greninja has utility (spikes) and coverage (omfg Protean), speed and priority, and a good powered-up form. Its clearly the best water-type in this metagame, but plays a fundamentally different role than Primarina. Primarina is a pivot with great Sp. Def, while Greninja is a speedy sweeper. If anything, Greninja's presence is more harmful to Keldeo than it is to Primarina.

Fini is defense and utility. It just doesn't have the Sp. Atk or movepool to blow through walls or threaten a sweep.

Primarina is the 4th best Sp. Atk water type in the game. So... there's a lot of better mon than her, but Primarina solidifies a niche nonetheless.

 

[ChinesePiplup]

HAS NO ONE SUGGESTED A DOUBLES SET THAT UTILIZES TRICK ROOM YET


Primarina @ Modest Nature
-Torrent

-Item: Life Orb

-Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Energy Ball
-Psychic

Pair this with Reuniclus and you will destroy all things holy.

Edit: EVs are 252 in SpAtk & HP, 4 in SpDef

 

[BENDIEZ]

As much as I love Primarina, I can't this mon being extremely viable in OU. It does have solid typing, good special and enough coverage to boot. Though, it's speed is bad and it's defense is mediocre. The lack of recovery and Calm Mind (Why Game Freak?) means that a more defensive set is out of the water. Also, I'm not keen on Liquid Voice, It's not a good ability IMO. If it boosted Hyper Voice like the -ate abilities, it would be a no brainer pick over Torrent. Since Primarina won't be outspeeding much and has decent bulk, Torrent has a chance to provide some extremely powerful Hydro Pumps also possibly boosted by Specs.

 

[Dragontamer]

As much as I love Primarina, I can't this mon being extremely viable in OU. It does have solid typing, good special and enough coverage to boot. Though, it's speed is bad and it's defense is mediocre. The lack of recovery and Calm Mind (Why Game Freak?) means that a more defensive set is out of the water. Also, I'm not keen on Liquid Voice, It's not a good ability IMO. If it boosted Hyper Voice like the -ate abilities, it would be a no brainer pick over Torrent. Since Primarina won't be outspeeding much and has decent bulk, Torrent has a chance to provide some extremely powerful Hydro Pumps also possibly boosted by Specs.

Calm Mind would blow hard on Primarina IMO, especially with Keldeo as a superior Calm-mind offensive threat, and Slowbro as a superior defensive one.

The only thing that makes this thing OU relevant is the Specs set... which is pretty good in my experience. Specs Primarina is a safe-switchin to Heatran (after it uses its Bloom Doom. Just switch to your grass resist to absorb the Z-attack and you're good), Ash-Greninja, Keldeo, Kingdra. The Specs Hydro Pump is extremely useful vs Rain Dance teams as well.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Primarina Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Pelipper in the Rain: 288-339 (89.1 - 104.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 64 HP / 188 SpD Primarina: 116-136 (36.5 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Primarina Moonblast vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 474-560 (157.4 - 186%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Modest
252+ Sp. Atk / 64HP / 188 SpD
-------
Hydro Pump
Moonblast
Psychic
Shadow Ball

EDIT: Freaking damage-calculator. Something was wrong. I redid all the calcs... but if somebody notices something extremely wrong... sorry. There seems to be a "rain glitch" that messes up calculators. In any case, I've edited my post, trying to correct the things that were obviously wrong.

Its a good pivot as long as the opponent doesn't have Chansey or Ferrothorn to absorb the damage afterwards. Even resists take big hits.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Primarina Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Bulu: 151-178 (53.7 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

Non-resists take bigger hits.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Primarina Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 207-244 (52 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Primarina Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Muk-Alola: 210-247 (50.7 - 59.6%) -- 84.8% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Primarina Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 16 SpD Assault Vest Muk-Alola: 190-225 (45.8 - 54.3%) -- 54.3% chance to 2HKO

Of course, guess correctly with coverage and the opponent gets into a very tough spot.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Primarina Psychic vs. 248 HP / 144 SpD Venusaur-Mega: 240-284 (66.1 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Primarina Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 178-210 (58.5 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

--------

Considering how often you need something to switch into Ash-Greninja's Hydropump. Primarina is bloody useful for that.

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 64 HP / 188 SpD Primarina: 86-102 (27.1 - 32.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 64 HP / 188 SpD Primarina: 16-20 (5 - 6.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 64 HP / 188 SpD Primarina: 114-135 (35.9 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Primarina Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 192-226 (67.3 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Ash-Greninja basically will never get Battle-bond as long as Primarina is switching in. Gunk-shot is Gen6-only. So its a safe time to pivot.

Primarina is a better partner to Mega-Metagross than basically every other water-type in the game. Even Fini, IMO, because Fini is just too passive. Its niche, but its definitely useful within this specific niche. This is definitely a UU-mon at best, but like Ditto or Shedinja... its got applications to the OU-tier because its so unique.