Lucario's huge drop will be his speed. Landorus-therian, Thundurus-i, latias, latios and a wealth of other speed 110 tiers go back to becoming a great check/counter. The overpowering power is gone (Although crunch coverage moves are now stronger). Landorus-therian/Latios are going to harass it now, unfortunately, and conkeldurr will become the better fight type. Hell, Infernape might see some usage now because it isn't completely outclassed and has some pretty good coverage in fire/fight.
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Other OverUsed General Discussion
- Thread starter The Grand Babido
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Except almost all of Lucario's offensive checs are hammered hard by +2 ESpeed:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latias: 242-285 (80.1 - 94.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 266-315 (88 - 104.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
And Lando-t can't take Ice Punch that's for sure:
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 244 Def Landorus-T: 530-629 (138.7 - 164.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 536-634 (151.4 - 179%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Conk can't OHKO with Mach Punch (72.5 - 86.1%) while in return a +2 Close Combat OHKOs (and +0 CC followed by ESpeed has a high chance of KOing too). Granted, Life Orb will take its toll. Slowbro definitely walls it if it carries CC/ESpeed/Ice Punch though, and that's why Luke has 4MSS as I explained in my previous post.
This is wrong. Landorus-T isn't ever running max speed unless its Choice Scarfed, so it is outsped by Adamant Lucario and will die to an Ice Punch.
What's to stop me from running that as a set to take care of lucario? Sure the standard smogon set would be that bulky set with something like 72 speed evs, but if I'm running a set to patch up weaknesses, there's no reason not to max that speed. It's not my job to obey the norms when designing a counter, but mine to be clever enough to take advantage of another option.
I mean, I ran Tornadus-Therian to speed creep lucario-mega... It certainly wasn't standard to run that with an assault vest to close off a special lucario-mega weakness. Yeah, the player using lucario certainly isn't going to think about a max speed Lando on a non-scarf set, but I can definitely make use of it if need be.
I mean, I ran Tornadus-Therian to speed creep lucario-mega... It certainly wasn't standard to run that with an assault vest to close off a special lucario-mega weakness. Yeah, the player using lucario certainly isn't going to think about a max speed Lando on a non-scarf set, but I can definitely make use of it if need be.
Yeah, max speed Lando-T would definitely take Lucario out. And max speed Lando-T isn't so far-fetched, pretty much all offensive Lando-T sets invest max speed, like the double booster and the choice scarf set.
It's safe to say that the defensive Lando-T (the most common set) fails to stop Ice Punch Lucario.
It's safe to say that the defensive Lando-T (the most common set) fails to stop Ice Punch Lucario.
Despite being really old, I'd imagine that this part of the rules extends to what you're asking.
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