While hoopa u is not on par with kyurem b, its also IMO worse and not as well rounded as manaphy. Manaphy has FAR better typing,synergy,bulk and also has great coverage like hoopa u... While manaphy is not as powerful as hoopa u it is far more useful against OFFENSE and doesn't get forced out by even close to the amount of mons as hoopa u does. I honestly dont know how you can justify manaphy and hoopa u being in the same rank as manaphy is the far better wallbreaker and can be used against ALL types of teams at least semi effectively.... My replay that I posted a page back where hoopa u was absolute useless against my ho team, was a scenario that you will NEVER see with manaphy....To whitequeens point fat teams and stall were never really good in this meta anyway with all the wallbreakers around..... In the current OFFENSIVE meta I just dont see how hoopa u can be A+ and on the same rank as something like manaphy....
Ok. I stopped reading when I reached the point where you said that Manaphy is better against offense. To say that Manaphy is better against offense is like saying that Curse Ferrothorn is the ultimate stallbreaker. Seriously, they both
mostly fall flat on their face. Seriously, using that as an argument to support Hoopa not moving up is completely insane. If your Manaphy has had ANY success against HO
at all, your opponent was almost certainly extremely incompetent. If anything, Hoopa fares
better as a wallbreaker v.s. offense due to its ability to run viably run scarf and sub sets courtesy of its greater immediate power and (compared to Sub Manaphy) lack of reliance on Rest. Seriously, due to the nature of Manaphy as a Pokémon, it effectively needs to run either Tail Glow or Calm Mind in order to deal heavy damage, and if you use Sub you also need Rest in order to stay healthy, which is reliant on rain to be of any use
at all. And now it's out of moveslots (Sub+TG+RD+Rest). Sure you could conteract this by using it on a rain team, but they are already strapped for team slots as-is. If it runs scarf, it isn't KOing shit. This is why Manaphy
doesn't manage against offense. To use that as your argument is completely ridiculous. Sub seriously f*cks with HO as it is Hoopa's best way of playing around Bisharp while also being able to capitalise on switches that it forces. Sure, if it can't get a sub up it falls flat, but it is significantly more useful than Manaphy.
While this is true manaphy doesn't mind setting up because of its typing and bulk and sub is not troublesome to ho at all lol, scarf is also pretty easy to play around but its by far hoopa us best answer to HO, the fact that hoopa u gets one hit koed by a bisharp sucker punch tells you enough about how well it does against HO, It has NO RIGHT to be on the same rank as manaphy, getting a free switch with it is MUCH easier theorymonning then in a ACTUAL battle,unless you want to use your incredibly defensively frail 80 speed mon as a revenge killer.... it has some good sets and lures but its so much of a hit and miss mon to be in a plus with other consistent mons at this point....Stall has been pretty bad for awhile now not like alot of people were running stall before this
Sorry for quoting another post of yours, but you posted it while I was typing; don't take it personally. If you are using scarf Hoopa, you are
not going to be switching it in on anything beyond special attacks which aren't super effective. Lol what made you think you'd ever try to switch scarf hoopa on anything other than a Psychic-type move or a special attack? You use it to revenge kill something as, once its in, it is capable of OHKOing or 2HKOing literally every common Pokémon on a HO team. Once you have sniffed out that a Pokémon is not carrying a choice scarf or is not Bisharp, you can just bring it out once a teammate is down. You bring it in on the faint (or even a slow VoltTurn works), and then they lose something to Hyperspace Fury or Zen Headbutt or Gunk Shot or whatever you are running on it. Get it out of your head that you are going to try to use Scarf Hoopa to switch into stuff. In addition to this, Scarf Hoopa's best teammates are easily Healing Wish Latias, which both gives it a free switch-in
and allows it to heal back up to full if it needs to take a special hit from something like Mega Alakazam (doesn't do shit to you) or a random faster scarfer such as Latios (needs 1
absolute max roll and 1 that deals a needs to be within 1 hit point of max damage to score a 2HKO with Draco before rocks (inb4 HP Bug Scarf Latios to counter scarf Hoopa-U)), and (Mega) Scizor, which provides great synergy with Hoopa (they beat each-others checks while Scizor resist both of Hoopa's weaknesses) and can provide a slow U-Turn for it to come in on. tl;dr: Hoopa isn't switching in on anything.
I said stall was pretty much dead before hoopa u came out anyway because of all the stallbreakers running around.... Manaphy is actually VERY effective against ho because unlike hoopa u it has good typing,bulk and NOT shit speed.... Manaphy rapes bulky offense I honestly have no clue wtf you're talking about would be cool to see a replay on how manaphy gets tossed by bulky offense... Anyway firing off scalds is one of manaphys best features because it can cripple offensive teams sweepers/wincons.....Hoopa u destroys stall of course but how viable was stall before hoopa u came out anyway?? Unlike hoopa u manaphy doesn't get forced out by almost EVERYTHING that outspeeds it... Maybe it wasn't just a coincidence that passing speed with bp was banned right before this thing came out...... Hoopa u is deadly when it gets a free switch but its too slow to revenge consistently against offense in a meta where before hoopa u came out offense was the best playstyle anyway(IMO)... AV is prob its most underrated and best set since no one prepares for it and you can switch in on special attacking mons without a bug move and thats the closest you're getting to a free switch unless you're 80 base speed mon is revenging and thats not the best plan if its not scarfed..... A rank is honestly where this thing needs to go rn its not even close to the same level as manaphy keldeo and the rest of the A+ rank mons at being consistent against ALL types of teams its a cool mon with insane stats and almost a perfect movepool but it gets steamrolled by anything that outspeeds it in a meta where everyone is trying to outspeed eachother (why sand offense is being abused on the high ldr)
Ok I am SO sorry rn. I feel like I'm making you feel targeted, but I don't mean to. You just
keep posting while I'm typing (srs I have been typing for about 45 minutes now and am starting to question whether I need to get more of a life) XD.
I've said this already in this post, and I'm going to say it again to ensure that you get this into your head. Manaphy can
not pull its weight against hyper offense as it can't set up against it (it sets up and then gets forced out...), is reliant on setting up and has a disappointing speed tier (shares this final characteristic with Hoopa). Unlike Hoopa, Manaphy can't afford to run Choice Scarf or Substitute to deal with common HO 'mons due to its total reliance on Tail Glow and Calm Mind to break balance and stall. This means that all of a sudden you are losing momentum v.s. hyper offense just by bringing Manaphy with you, and Manaphy can't counteract this by bringing an anti-meta set in the way that Hoopa can with Scarf and Sub+3 attacks (not bringing up SubNP in this scenario as that falls flat against HO if it tries to set up Nasty Plots).
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Anyway, so that this post isn't all me ranting about how Manaphy can't pull its weight against hyper offense and how Hoopa-U's scarf and sub sets can pull their weight v.s. hyper offense, I'll just state my position on Hoopa-U. I am personally neutral on its position just so long as it is in either A+ or S (although I have an S lean and feel that it is in the hypothetical 'X' rank' (for those who are unfamiliar with what I mean by that, the 'X rank' is a thought experiment that I came up with and have talked about in this thread in the past; it is a hypothetical rank between S and A+, where a number of the top A+ Pokémon and Clefable sit, which only comes into existence when needed)). This is for a number of reasons which I will outline briefly. Firstly, if a playstyle lies between or on equal footing with stall and/or balance on the offense/defense spectrum, it completely and utterly shreds them. While the metagame has shifted more towards offense since its release, the sheer fact that it fills its role as a balance or stall (or anything in-between) breaker as well as it does is a big selling point. In addition to this, it has a small number of viable sets which are able to pull their weight against offense, and this makes it a candidate for the role of anti-meta, depending on whether you choose to target balance/stall with its standard sets (AV, LO etc.) or choose to lure offense into a false sense of security with its sub-standard sets (scarf, sub) - no 'sub' pun intended. In addition to all of this, Hyperspace Fury is argubly
the most spammable attack in the game due to it coming off of Hoopa's insane base 160 attack stat (potentially with a Life Orb too) and lowering a stat which Hoopa rarely uses anyway with the added benefit of ignoring Protect (further aiding it in obliterating stall) and not making contact (further aiding it in obliterating balance). Its special bulk is good before the consideration of the AV set, allowing it to take at least one neutral special hit if it needs to. While its typing leaves it with no resistances, it means that its STABs are only resisted by Dark, which is easily covered by Focus Blast/Drain Punch anyway. Hoopa is in a similar boat to BW Hydreigon in that it has no counters due to its stupid coverage and insane power.
It is held back to an extent by certain undesirable traits. Its base speed is disappointing (although this can be remedied to an extent by scarf or SubSalac) and its defense means that it can't take a physical hit to save its life. In addition to this, its typing leaves it with zero resistances, reducing its ability to repeatedly switch in. It also lacks reliable recovery, meaning that it can't utilise its good special bulk with a defensive set. However, whether these are enough to downplay its insane versatility and offensive capabilities is debatable to the point where it shoudln't be S is debatable.
To make a long story short:
Hoopa-U --> A+ or S (personal S lean, but mostly neutral on which position)
Now its time for me to get a life after typing for over an hour and a half...