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Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking: Sets (V2)
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I'm not sure if what I say is the exact reason. But Char X DD set is less versatile than Gyaras and Altarias one. While CharX DD sets commonly only run DClaw, FlareBlitz, EQ/Roost (which is a hard decision cause you have to think between been count or have recovery) and DD. MAltaria can run DD 3 attacks, DD roost and 2 attacks or DD roost refresh 1attack, and gyara can run DD 3 attacks, DD Sub 2 attacks.
Also both have resistance to most common priority moves like aquajet and sucker punch, aren't weak to SR.
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I don't think versatility matters at all for Zard X as knowing its moves (unless it's Bulky WoW, that's different) won't help you one bit. It still dgaf about 95% of the meta, so chances are, your team will be swept by a +1 Zard X most of the time. I use a set with Outrage over Dragon Claw (yes, Outrage) and it gets all the kills and more that you'd get with Earthquake. Honestly, it's just so damn good at sweeping I find it hard to believe that set isn't at A+.
I wholeheartedly agree. I'd say that this meta isnt very nice to set up sweepers, but Zard does it so well, it is still a devastating force. It has a near-unresisted stab combo, the amazing tough claws, speed that poops on offense once boosted, and to top it off, it has a neat 130 Atk to play with. It def deserves an A+, though also no higher. (Well, I guess It cant be higher anyways, since a set cant be higher than its overall rank, but you get the point)
Decided to do all the unranked mons between B+ and D-Rank. Feedback on the rankings would be appreciated.
B+ Rank
(Calm Mind (all variations): B+)
B Rank
(Dedicated Lead: B)
(Dual Screens: B)
(Rain Dance: B-)
(Physically Defensive: B)
(Physically Defensive: B)
(CB: B)
(Bulky SD: B-)
(Offensive SD: B-)
(Life Orb: B)
B- Rank
(SD: B-)
(Mega Mixed Attacker: B-)
(Mega SD Wallbreaker: C+)
(SD Cleaner: B-)
(Choice Scarf: C)
(Defensive: B-)
(Assault Vest / Alexwolf's waifu: B-)
(Underrated: B-)
(Mega Dragon Dance: B-)
(Bulky Tank: C+)
(Physically Defensive: B-)
(Specially Defensive: B-)
C+ Rank
(Tank: C+)
(Trick Room Support: C)
(Wallbreaker: C+)
(Offensive Pivot: C+)
(Physically Defensive: C+)
(Mega Wallbreaker: C+)
(Mega Work Up: C)
(Mega All-Out-Attacker: C+)
(Oh no, it's Wobbuffet!: C+)
(Defensive: C+)
(Assault Vest: C+)
(Dragon Dance: C+)
C Rank
(Mega Rapid Spin: C)
(Mega Wallbreaker: C)
(Choice Scarf: C-)
(Assault Vest Tank: C)
(Lead: C)
(Physically Defensive: C-)
(MixApe: D)
(Mega Calm Mind: C)
(Defensive: C)
(Calm Mind: c)
(Sticky Web: C-)
C- Rank
(Offensive LO: C-)
(Focus Sash: C-)
(Baton Pass receiver: C-)
(Tank: C-)
(Rain Sweeper: C-)
(Life Orb: C-)
(Wallbreaker: C-)
(Geomancy Pass: C-)
(Hazard Setter: D)
(Rain Dance: D)
D Rank
(Defensive: D)
(Choice Scarf: D)
(Stallbreaker:D)
B+ Rank
B Rank
(Dual Screens: B)
(Rain Dance: B-)
(Bulky SD: B-)
(Offensive SD: B-)
B- Rank
(Mega SD Wallbreaker: C+)
(Bulky Tank: C+)
(Specially Defensive: B-)
C+ Rank
(Trick Room Support: C)
(Mega All-Out-Attacker: C+)
(Assault Vest: C+)
C Rank
(Physically Defensive: C-)
(MixApe: D)
C- Rank
(Focus Sash: C-)
(Hazard Setter: D)
D Rank
(Stallbreaker:D)
its like one of smeargle's only niches...
People have actually even called for a ban of geopass smeargle. It def deserves a rank
Can I ask why Heatran doesn't have a specs set? I'm currently around the high 16's and low 17's on my main acc and it puts in the finest of work against most teams.
For example, this is one that I saved a few days ago, as you can see Heatran puts so much pressure on him and if it didn't have the glasses I wouldn't have won (I shouldn't have won, as I had a few bad plays and I think his team was a better matchup)
I genuinely believe that this set is the best in the current OU meta as it just completely destroys anything that doesn't resist it, and even then, Keldeo took 63% health from an overheat.
Heatran used Overheat!
It's not very effective... The opposing Wild Horses lost 63.2% of its health!
Heatran's Special Attack harshly fell!
Many times (in the mid ladder to be fair, I'm not amazing) i've just swept with Heatran alone. I think it deserves a mention atleast!
edit: forgot the replay
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-220042124
For example, this is one that I saved a few days ago, as you can see Heatran puts so much pressure on him and if it didn't have the glasses I wouldn't have won (I shouldn't have won, as I had a few bad plays and I think his team was a better matchup)
I genuinely believe that this set is the best in the current OU meta as it just completely destroys anything that doesn't resist it, and even then, Keldeo took 63% health from an overheat.
Heatran used Overheat!
It's not very effective... The opposing Wild Horses lost 63.2% of its health!
Heatran's Special Attack harshly fell!
Many times (in the mid ladder to be fair, I'm not amazing) i've just swept with Heatran alone. I think it deserves a mention atleast!
edit: forgot the replay
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-220042124
Specs tran is not an extremely good set. You have other options for an offensive set such as stallbreaker tran or scarf tran anyway.
This needs updated a little bit as mega heracross and diggersby both moved to B+. Also make lucario's SD set B- and feraligatr is B- on the viability so add Dragon dance to B- and swords dance for gatr the same or C+
Regardless of whether a set is amazing doesn't really matter that much- it's kinda an old relic from DPP, but that doesn't mean the set doesn't deserve a rank. Only problem is that it's not common enough that many people can verify a ranking for it
Any reason why Empoleon's defensive/hazard control set is unranked? It should probably be C or C- rank. The resistance to Stealth Rock and immunity to Toxic Spikes are great qualities as a Defogger and it is one of the few Pokemon that can feasibly carry both Stealth Rock and Defog. The metagame isn't too kind to it right now though because it doesn't really check many relevant Pokemon that well aside from Azu, but it does its job.
Emboar should be in C- rank like in the viability rankings. Choice Band is probably D, Scarf should be C, Life Orb should be C- and SubPunch is probably C- or C, but I haven't used that set yet. Band has great trouble getting in on offensive teams and can be taken advantage of on Stall thanks to its item, but its sheer power allows it to 2HKO anything in OU with the right prediction thanks to Reckless. Scarf outspeeds all relevant non-Megas without Choice Scarves and it is still strong with Reckless. Life Orb is like Band, but can carry Sucker Punch for priority and is harder for Stall teams to take advantage of. It gets worn down the quickest out of all of Emboar's sets, however. SubPunch has the most longevity and takes advantage of Emboar's ability to force switches. I'll call Jaroda to talk about it since he has the most experience with it.
Scarf Gengar should be ranked for A- or A. It outspeeds pretty much everything and is tied with Latios for being the fastest viable Scarfer. Trick cripples would-be answers like SpD Gliscor and mixed Wall Hippowdown (which should also be ranked btw) and it's still fast and strong enough be greatly useful after the Trick. All in all, it's a great revenge killer, lure and cleaner that should be ranked.
Emboar should be in C- rank like in the viability rankings. Choice Band is probably D, Scarf should be C, Life Orb should be C- and SubPunch is probably C- or C, but I haven't used that set yet. Band has great trouble getting in on offensive teams and can be taken advantage of on Stall thanks to its item, but its sheer power allows it to 2HKO anything in OU with the right prediction thanks to Reckless. Scarf outspeeds all relevant non-Megas without Choice Scarves and it is still strong with Reckless. Life Orb is like Band, but can carry Sucker Punch for priority and is harder for Stall teams to take advantage of. It gets worn down the quickest out of all of Emboar's sets, however. SubPunch has the most longevity and takes advantage of Emboar's ability to force switches. I'll call Jaroda to talk about it since he has the most experience with it.
Scarf Gengar should be ranked for A- or A. It outspeeds pretty much everything and is tied with Latios for being the fastest viable Scarfer. Trick cripples would-be answers like SpD Gliscor and mixed Wall Hippowdown (which should also be ranked btw) and it's still fast and strong enough be greatly useful after the Trick. All in all, it's a great revenge killer, lure and cleaner that should be ranked.
This thread isn't updated fully, so some important sets still aren't ranked. Something like Empoleon's defensive set falls in this category, as it is Empoleon's best set, and I definitely think it should be put at B- (where Empoleon is on the viability rankings). The set is capable of switching in on and either phazing, defogging on, setting up sr on, poisoning, or attacking a lot of common Pokemon, including Azu, Latios, Latias, Mega Latias, Mega Diancie [takes a big chunk, but penguin still avoids the 2hko, so it can be a good backup check], clefable, altaria without eq, mega slowbro, heatran [last resort check, but still works], and Manaphy.
Just a heads up for Empoleon we'll be discussing moving it up next slate but yes its defensive set should be at the highest rank possible in regards to this threads nature in not exceeding its current rank. Agreeing with this.
People know how threatening Emboar's power is, so yes, it certainly does force switches often. Against HO teams, a Sub is great for protecting you from fast attackers and the insurance from Sucker Punch means bad news for the Latis, Gengar, Landorus-I, etc. It's also terrific against balance with the amount of things you get a free sub on like Chansey, Heatran, Bisharp, Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Chesnaught for examples.
The downsides are the unreliability of Focus Punch and Sucker Punch many times. Reliant on prediction of course, either move can simply not work. Sometimes you'll need your fighting STAB to hit something but can't get a Sub up and Focus Punch will be interrupted. Sometimes a crafty Landorus-T can predict a Sucker Punch and lay down Stealth Rock instead. SubPunch Emboar can either take out 2-3 opponents himself or nothing, so he doesn't always pull his weight, which is why C rank is pretty fair for it. It pulls amazing weight with good hazard support as it is very good against several Defog users like the Latis, Skarmory, Scizor, and Mandibuzz for example.
Also, Expert Belt is a viable alternative to Life Orb Jaguar360 on an all offensive set, as its coverage is great and you'll get similar results without needless recoil, as many neutral attacks are 2HKO with or without LO recoil.
imo the poison heal+sd set should probably be in b or b+. really solid stallbreaker+status absorber that can set up on things like sable (after toxic orb activates of course) and the only things really stopping it on stall at +2 are m-alt, amoonguss, or glisc, who all still take tons from a facade
LO Zam in C+ lol, definitely worth it.
I really don't think Specially Defensive Heatran should be A+. It's too slow right now and too many things can take advantage of it and set up (Sub CM Keldeo). Conversely I think ScarfTran should be A+ because it hits really hard and breaks the 135 Spe tier as well as being a more well-rounded option with better coverage and less possible switch ins.
Just some notes:
- Kyurem-B is A- now.
- Gallade is A- now.
- Scizor is A+ now.
- Mew and Slowking's Sets should be A- and B- now, at least one of their sets.
Edit:
- Same with Amoonguss, Dragonite, Weavile, Skarmory, Magneton, Lucario, Ditto, Amoonguss, Espeon, Shuckle.
There're a lot of copypaste mistakes though.
- Kyurem-B is A- now.
- Gallade is A- now.
- Scizor is A+ now.
- Mew and Slowking's Sets should be A- and B- now, at least one of their sets.
Edit:
- Same with Amoonguss, Dragonite, Weavile, Skarmory, Magneton, Lucario, Ditto, Amoonguss, Espeon, Shuckle.
There're a lot of copypaste mistakes though.
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Just wondering: Mega ZardX is ranked A+, but only has ranked A sets. Is this a mistake or am I missing something?
A Pokemon's set doesn't necessarily need to be the same rank as the Pokemon itself, as even though no one set might be worthy of A+, the variety of sets at a Pokemon's disposal, as well as the overall effectiveness of each set, can be a factor to the Pokemon being ranked higher than its own sets.
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