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Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking: Sets (V2)
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That's what is it, so yes (although support is probably the better term ihs)
Gonna go from S to A ranks in terms of what the set should be and at what rank I believe they should be at for each one. If you need explanations let me know. This can be used as a foundation for a starting point. You guys are free to disagree with w/e. AoA means All-Out Attacker fyi. You can go more in depth with roles if you want but these are basics to go off of. Also please change the rank definitions here to match the ones in the viability rankings please if you plan on using definitions.
S Rank
(Sub CM: S)
(AoA: A+) Specs + Life Orb variants
(Scarf: A+)
(AoA: S)
(3 Attacks / Support: S) I'm putting it like this because this falls under Agility, Hone Claws, Sub / 3 attack sets. It's fine to just have it as Agility / Rock Polish though which would still be S while those others can fall under AoA
(AoA: S)
(Rock Polish: S)
(Calm Mind: A+) I'm actually gonna say this is A+ for now simply for loss of coverage and utility against offense.
A+ Rank
I think that less viable sets should go below the more viable ones. That's just me though.
(Offensive Dragon Dance: A+)
(Special Attacker: A+)
(Support: A+)
(Defensive Dragon Dance: A)
Azumarill
(Choice Band: A+)
(Belly Drum: A+)
(Assault Vest: A-)
(Swords Dance: A+)
(Pursuit Trapper: A+)
(Assault Vest: A-)
(Dragon Dance A+)
(Double Dance A) SD / Tailwind and Dragon Dance / SD + 2 attacks encompasses both of these
These are really the only two relevant categories you should have honestly. Yes 3 attacks / DDance is put in the Dragon Dance section for its additional coverage to break down traditional checks like M-Diancie and Tyranitar with the 3rd coverage move along side STAB. Other sets are basically moot in the meta right now.
(Calm Mind: A+)
(Support: A+) This includes SR, Thunder Wave, and Cleric
(Tank: A) Life Orb sets and 3 attack sets
(All-Out Attacker: A+)
(Rock Polish: A+)
(Calm Mind: A-)
(AoA: A+)
(Sub-Split Attacker: A+)
(Stall-breaker: A-)
(Specially Defensive: A+)
(Defensive: A)
(Sub DDance: A+)
(3 attacks / DDance: A)
(Fast Support: A+)
(Offensive: A+)
(Specially Defensive: A)
(Scarf: A-)
(Choice Scarf: A+)
(Pivot: A+) Offensive and Defensive Pivot Role consolidated
(Double Dance: A) I bumped this to A. A- is underselling it tremendously.
(AoA: A+) Includes Roost / support move + 3 attacks
(Calm Mind: A+)
(Offensive Defog: A+) Includes 2 attack + 2 utility moves or 3 attacks + defog
(AoA: A+) This includes 3 attack / support move sets
(Substitute Attacker: A) Sub / Encore primarily
(Double Dance: A+) Lol why was this "A". This includes 2 attacks / Slack Off / CM as well
(Offensive Tank: A-) 3 attacks / Slack Off
(CroBro: B+)
(Defensive: A-) Remove this. Use regular Slowbro if using its defensive set as a stand alone set.
(Offensive Swords Dance: A+)
(Specially Defensive: A)
(Choice Band: B+)
(Utility: A+)
(Calm Mind: A)
(Prankster Attacker: A+)
(Defiant Attacker: A)
A Rank
(Baton Pass: A)
(Support: A)
(Offensive: A-) Lack of bulk is substantial that rose to fame due to its utility for the most part
(Wall-Breaker: A)
(Specially Defensive: A-)
(Sand Rush Sweeper: A)
(Specially Defensive Excadrill: B+)
(Choice Scarf: B)
(Utility: A) Not much else to say lol. I guess you can separate it into different items with this one as sub-categories.
(Swords Dance: A)
(Offensive): A)
(Defensive: B+) Viable but somewhat outclassed by M-Altaria in this role
(Defensive Rocky Helmet: A)
(Lead: A) Includes SD variants
(Scarf: B+)
(Offensive Defog: A)
(Defensive Defog: B+) Reflect Type variants
(TG + RD: A)
(TG + 3 attacks: A)
(Defensive: A-) This includes Calm Mind variants and U-Turn / Knock Off ones.
(Revenge Killer: A)
(AoA: A) SD / 3 attacks primarily
(Sub Flail: A-)
(Physically Defensive: A)
(Specially Defensive: B)
(Offensive SD: A)
(Bulky SD: A-)
(Defensive: A-)
(Physically Defensive: A)
(Choice Scarf: A)
(Choice Band: A)
(Support: A-)
(Offensive: A)
(Defensive: A-)
A- Rank
(Revenge Killer: A-)
(Swords Dance: A-)
(Choice Scarf: B+)
(Bulky Dragon Dance: A-)
(Defensive: B)
(Wall Breaker: A-)
(Swords Dance + Substitute: A-)
(Defensive: A) <---- this is in A rank now please fix that
(Specially Defensive: A-)
(Sub-toxic: A-)
(Offensive: A-)
(Choice Scarf: B+)
(Choice Scarf: B+) This is now in B+ ranks fix as well
(Choice Specs: B)
(AoA: A-)
(Lead: B+)
(Defensive Rain Support: A-) Defensive versions of Politoed
(Offensive Rain Support: B+) Offensive versions of Politoed
(Defensive: A) This moved to A
(Offensive: A) Encompasses Offensive Spinner, AoA, 3 attacks + Recover variants
(Assault Vest: A-)
(Choice Specs: A-)
(Calm Mind: B+)
(Life Orb: A-)
(Assault Vest: A-)
You can organize and figure out amongst yourself certain names but there's my idea of what I'd like to see for the upper portion of viability.
S Rank
(Sub CM: S)
(AoA: A+) Specs + Life Orb variants
(Scarf: A+)
(AoA: S)
(3 Attacks / Support: S) I'm putting it like this because this falls under Agility, Hone Claws, Sub / 3 attack sets. It's fine to just have it as Agility / Rock Polish though which would still be S while those others can fall under AoA
(AoA: S)
(Rock Polish: S)
(Calm Mind: A+) I'm actually gonna say this is A+ for now simply for loss of coverage and utility against offense.
A+ Rank
(Offensive Dragon Dance: A+)
(Special Attacker: A+)
(Support: A+)
(Defensive Dragon Dance: A)
(Choice Band: A+)
(Belly Drum: A+)
(Assault Vest: A-)
(Swords Dance: A+)
(Pursuit Trapper: A+)
(Assault Vest: A-)
(Dragon Dance A+)
(Double Dance A) SD / Tailwind and Dragon Dance / SD + 2 attacks encompasses both of these
These are really the only two relevant categories you should have honestly. Yes 3 attacks / DDance is put in the Dragon Dance section for its additional coverage to break down traditional checks like M-Diancie and Tyranitar with the 3rd coverage move along side STAB. Other sets are basically moot in the meta right now.
(Support: A+) This includes SR, Thunder Wave, and Cleric
(Tank: A) Life Orb sets and 3 attack sets
(All-Out Attacker: A+)
(Rock Polish: A+)
(Calm Mind: A-)
(AoA: A+)
(Sub-Split Attacker: A+)
(Stall-breaker: A-)
(Specially Defensive: A+)
(Defensive: A)
(Sub DDance: A+)
(3 attacks / DDance: A)
(Fast Support: A+)
(Offensive: A+)
(Specially Defensive: A)
(Scarf: A-)
(Choice Scarf: A+)
(Pivot: A+) Offensive and Defensive Pivot Role consolidated
(Double Dance: A) I bumped this to A. A- is underselling it tremendously.
(AoA: A+) Includes Roost / support move + 3 attacks
(Calm Mind: A+)
(Offensive Defog: A+) Includes 2 attack + 2 utility moves or 3 attacks + defog
(AoA: A+) This includes 3 attack / support move sets
(Substitute Attacker: A) Sub / Encore primarily
(Double Dance: A+) Lol why was this "A". This includes 2 attacks / Slack Off / CM as well
(Offensive Tank: A-) 3 attacks / Slack Off
(CroBro: B+)
(Offensive Swords Dance: A+)
(Specially Defensive: A)
(Choice Band: B+)
(Utility: A+)
(Calm Mind: A)
(Prankster Attacker: A+)
(Defiant Attacker: A)
A Rank
(Baton Pass: A)
(Support: A)
(Offensive: A-) Lack of bulk is substantial that rose to fame due to its utility for the most part
(Wall-Breaker: A)
(Specially Defensive: A-)
(Sand Rush Sweeper: A)
(Specially Defensive Excadrill: B+)
(Choice Scarf: B)
(Utility: A) Not much else to say lol. I guess you can separate it into different items with this one as sub-categories.
(Swords Dance: A)
(Offensive): A)
(Defensive: B+) Viable but somewhat outclassed by M-Altaria in this role
(Defensive Rocky Helmet: A)
(Lead: A) Includes SD variants
(Scarf: B+)
(Offensive Defog: A)
(Defensive Defog: B+) Reflect Type variants
(TG + RD: A)
(TG + 3 attacks: A)
(Defensive: A-) This includes Calm Mind variants and U-Turn / Knock Off ones.
(Revenge Killer: A)
(AoA: A) SD / 3 attacks primarily
(Sub Flail: A-)
(Physically Defensive: A)
(Specially Defensive: B)
(Offensive SD: A)
(Bulky SD: A-)
(Defensive: A-)
(Physically Defensive: A)
(Choice Scarf: A)
(Choice Band: A)
(Support: A-)
(Offensive: A)
(Defensive: A-)
A- Rank
(Revenge Killer: A-)
(Swords Dance: A-)
(Choice Scarf: B+)
(Bulky Dragon Dance: A-)
(Defensive: B)
(Wall Breaker: A-)
(Swords Dance + Substitute: A-)
(Defensive: A) <---- this is in A rank now please fix that
(Specially Defensive: A-)
(Sub-toxic: A-)
(Offensive: A-)
(Choice Scarf: B+)
(Choice Scarf: B+) This is now in B+ ranks fix as well
(Choice Specs: B)
(AoA: A-)
(Lead: B+)
(Defensive Rain Support: A-) Defensive versions of Politoed
(Offensive Rain Support: B+) Offensive versions of Politoed
(Defensive: A) This moved to A
(Offensive: A) Encompasses Offensive Spinner, AoA, 3 attacks + Recover variants
(Assault Vest: A-)
(Choice Specs: A-)
(Calm Mind: B+)
(Life Orb: A-)
(Assault Vest: A-)
You can organize and figure out amongst yourself certain names but there's my idea of what I'd like to see for the upper portion of viability.
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Stallbreaker t-flame should be a+ imo, i believe ur referring to the taunt, wow, roost, bb set?
fixed
lol littlelucario why are you listing AV ttar? and for A- or B+ moreover. It's a set that approaches gimmick very close and it's a completely useless since:
1) You are bulky but you can't use stealth rock.
2) You change nothing vs Keldeo since Secret Sword is based on phydef, and the damage from fight types is still high (Maybe ohko with hazards).
3) Generally offensive ttars (4 attacks) nedds to carry something that allows you to outspeed (Scarf) or to do heavy damage (Band). Also, you don't have recovery or leftovers.
4) You already have the boost of spdef by the sandstorm tyranitar summons, which is enough.
In a nutshell it's why Tyranitar should not cover this role.
1) You are bulky but you can't use stealth rock.
2) You change nothing vs Keldeo since Secret Sword is based on phydef, and the damage from fight types is still high (Maybe ohko with hazards).
3) Generally offensive ttars (4 attacks) nedds to carry something that allows you to outspeed (Scarf) or to do heavy damage (Band). Also, you don't have recovery or leftovers.
4) You already have the boost of spdef by the sandstorm tyranitar summons, which is enough.
In a nutshell it's why Tyranitar should not cover this role.
AV t-tar is actually viable, not for checking keldeo but for gengar, charizard y and x etc. Also just cuz t-tar cant use rocks doesn't mean its bad - scarf t-tar is arguably its best set rn and it doesnt have SR.
Why it should check gengar, char x and y if the scarf does the same thing, but better? lol
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 272-320 (67.4 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 302-359 (74.9 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 291-348 (72.2 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 226-268 (56 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 174-205 (43.1 - 50.8%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO
Tyranitar doesn't fare any better against most threats with an Assault Vest. I mean yeah it certainly takes the blow better than Choice Scarf, but it has to take it, while Scarf with good prediction can avoid the fatal blow on the switch and outspeed for removingkebab the Pokémon next turn. Band and leftovers admittely have the same problems of Assault Vest, but Band makes up for it with its obscene power( 252 Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 144-169 (43.1 - 50.5%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock ), while Leftovers sets at least can lay down Stealth Rocks for extra utility, or run Smooth Rock instead of leftovers for extra sand turns for their Excadrill.
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 302-359 (74.9 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 291-348 (72.2 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 226-268 (56 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 174-205 (43.1 - 50.8%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO
Tyranitar doesn't fare any better against most threats with an Assault Vest. I mean yeah it certainly takes the blow better than Choice Scarf, but it has to take it, while Scarf with good prediction can avoid the fatal blow on the switch and outspeed for removing
AV T-tar runs spdef investment, dunno how much though. Tho B- rank sounds like a decent place?
Destiny Bond Gengar is just the LO Attacker set with D-Bond > Taunt.
SpD Rotom-W is bad.
Slack Off Slowbro is just the defensive set.
Is SubCM Jirachi really a thing?
I believe Baton Pass Mega Scizor was rejected for a spot in the analysis by C&C. It's super niche.
Rock lead Mamoswine is kinda dead because it's completely shut down by Mega Sableye.
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AM I really don't agree with consolidating some of the sets you posted. Some sets, even when using the same EVs, perform vastly different depending on the moves chosen. The most notable one I can see is gliscor
Specially defensive gliscor doesn't rly mean anything when it just describes the EVs. SpDef SD plays completely different than SpDef Stallbreaker, and it wouldn't be fair to have them mushed together for the sake of simplicity. They should rly be ranked separately, and this goes for any mon that has a lot of variety in how it performs. Some things do fall under this, but that's really for more one dimensional things that have the same role and effectiveness. A good example of this would be ferrothorn. Both spikes and SR sets are equally viable, and the difference between the two moves does not change the role or effectiveness of the set. Clef also falls under this in regards to its support set.
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Anyways, some things that need to be ranked (no particular order; sry recreant):
SD gliscor: A+
RP Lando: S
Change wallbreaker to all out Attacker
CM MG Clef: A+ lol
Offensive SR Heatran: A+
Lure Tran (magma storm + coverage): A
CM MegaBro: A+
Double dance Bro: A- (it's rly not that great vs any grass type)
SpDef SD Talon: A+
BU Talon: A
Utility Ferro: A
Will add more later.
Specially defensive gliscor doesn't rly mean anything when it just describes the EVs. SpDef SD plays completely different than SpDef Stallbreaker, and it wouldn't be fair to have them mushed together for the sake of simplicity. They should rly be ranked separately, and this goes for any mon that has a lot of variety in how it performs. Some things do fall under this, but that's really for more one dimensional things that have the same role and effectiveness. A good example of this would be ferrothorn. Both spikes and SR sets are equally viable, and the difference between the two moves does not change the role or effectiveness of the set. Clef also falls under this in regards to its support set.
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Anyways, some things that need to be ranked (no particular order; sry recreant):
SD gliscor: A+
RP Lando: S
Change wallbreaker to all out Attacker
CM MG Clef: A+ lol
Offensive SR Heatran: A+
Lure Tran (magma storm + coverage): A
CM MegaBro: A+
Double dance Bro: A- (it's rly not that great vs any grass type)
SpDef SD Talon: A+
BU Talon: A
Utility Ferro: A
Will add more later.
Fair enough
I don't agree that Magma Storm Heatran warrants a separate set by itself when it's a very common move on offensive variants to begin with. It was a lure awhile ago but it really isn't as much now when it's used on a bunch of Heatrans in general. The other stuff look good though.
Scarf Tyranitar (A)
Stall breaker Talonflame (A)
Tank Garchomp (A)
Lead Garchomp (B)
Choice Band Dragonite (B+)
Specs Rikou (B+)
Bulky SD Mega Scizor (A)
Stall breaker Talonflame (A)
Tank Garchomp (A)
Lead Garchomp (B)
Choice Band Dragonite (B+)
Specs Rikou (B+)
Bulky SD Mega Scizor (A)
Iron Defense and Calm Mind, to take hits from both sides of the spectrum.
maybe we should call it something like Double Booster because Double Dance implies Nastyplot/SD and Agility/Rockpolish.
Double Dance is imo anything that has two stat boosting moves. The term originated when the combo of SD and DD became prominent on Rayquaza in Ubers iirc. Also, nothing about Rock Polish, Nasty Plot, or Agility implies dancing is involved :)
LMAO belly drum trick room. Also why is spdef skarmory the only set? Isn't physdef viable as well?
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