Other ORAS OU Role Compendium V2

[bludz]

I guess it depends on how you define a check since Talonflame can definitely scare Gengar away but it isn't switching in. Considering Latios is under Dragon-Type checks - which threatens dragons but can't switch in - we're using a loose definition of check and thus Talonflame satisfies the criteria for Gengar.

 

[Grim]

Specially Defensive Talonflame actually can switch in and force it out. Definitely a Gengar check.

 

[Kurona]

Add Mega Sharpedo to Late-game cleaners and Other set-up.

 

[AD impish john]

I think Pinsir-Mega should also be in late game cleaners

 

[AM]

Ok some things I noticed or I feel need to be added.

Dragalge under Toxic Spikes.

Azumarill, Kyurem-B, Celebi, and Keldeo are not good Lando-I checks because they're all based on matchup in regards to its coverage options and support moves such as Rock Polish and Calm Mind. Bronzong is more of a check to Lando-I than all of those.

Talonflame is a garbage Gengar check and you're basically opening a loophole for anything that can outrun something to be qualified as a check, in regards to the discussion people are having above me. I don't think I need to explain why that makes no sense.

Also please remove Chandelure as a Gengar check. That's just silly to think, unless it was down to their last mon each, that Chandelure is going to somehow pull of a revenge kill with such an obvious set that everybody knows, besides the fact that its actual good set to myself, the stall-breaker set, is getting outpaced by Gengar.

Under late game cleaner put M-Aerodactyl as well.

There's a lot of stuff that qualifies as "Rain abusers" from an offensive and defensive stand-point. I'd probably just emphasize on Swift Swimmers cause that section is really vague and has way too many things to take into account. Under sand abusers put Hippowdon since Sand Force Hippo + Choice Scarf Tyranitar is a pretty common core.

 

[bludz]

Talonflame is a garbage Gengar check and you're basically opening a loophole for anything that can outrun something to be qualified as a check, in regards to the discussion people are having above me. I don't think I need to explain why that makes no sense.

I agree with this. Had a few complaints with some checks that are already listed but I'm since I'm fairly new I don't want it to seem like I'm telling the OP how to run his thread and I decided to just go with what was already being done.

IMO the term "check" is a little tricky because the verb and noun are not totally analogous. To my knowledge, it would be correct to say that Talonflame checks Keldeo (scares it away when both pokemon are already on the field) but it is not a Keldeo check (won't be switching in safely because it fears STAB water moves). Please correct me if I am wrong.

I think what we're looking for here are somewhat reliable switch ins that don't get bopped if they switch into a STAB attack and can threaten the other mon out. Otherwise it just becomes a list of things that can outspeed and OHKO as AM said.

Anyway gonna name a few of the mons listed in checks that IMO shouldn't be there because they cannot switch into STABs safely

Talonflame in Keldeo checks
Weavile in Lando-T checks
Latios in Dragon checks
Talonflame and Mega Alakazam in Lopunny checks
Alakazam, Starmie and Latios in Gengar checks

There are some other shaky ones too. I guess technically Keldeo can switch into a Lando-T EQ, live, and threaten it out with Scald, but I wouldn't call it a very solid check. Things like these are less easily defined so I'm not sure what the consensus there is.

 

[artimis_fowl]

i would put ditto onto sableye-mega counters, due to the fact it copies magic bounce.

 

[firehusky]

i would put ditto onto sableye-mega counters, due to the fact it copies magic bounce.

Scarf Ditto can't really do much back though.

 

[p2]

Serperior can fit in Stallbreakers, Other Set-up, Keldeo check, Late Game Cleaner and I suppose it works as a M-Sableye check aswell

 

[Aragorn the King]

Ok - I'm going to end the debate over the definitions here. Check out MattL's awesome article in The Smog here. It should cover all bases + even more. Debate over entries is generally fine, but keep it civil, avoid one-liners, and don't excessively nitpick. If you feel the need to do any of what I just said, PMs are great.

:)

 

[artimis_fowl]

Scarf Ditto can't really do much back though.

true...
4 SpA Mega Sableye Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 67-81 (22 - 26.6%) -- 16.6% chance to 4HKO against recover, its going anywhere

 

[pretty little liAr]

Ditto should not be placed in mega Sableye counters. Ditto keeps its bad hp stat, so it takes more from Sableyes shadow ball, while Sableye can recover stall.

 

[AD impish john]

i would put ditto onto sableye-mega counters, due to the fact it copies magic bounce.

Ditto Can't do much since Sableye-Mega can stall it with recover, plus if it has like a bunch of calm mind set ups there no use.

 

[AM]

Guys stop bringing up mentions of unreleased stuff to be implemented to the compendium. Thanks. If your comment was deleted and you brought up something else you're free to bring it up again but without mentions of unreleased stuff. That should be a given by now.

 

[firehusky]

• Zard y + x under Mega Sableye checks
• Celebi under swords dance
• Skarmory under suicide leads cuz custap skarm is thing now
• Emboar under wallbreakers
• Emboar under Mega Sableye checks

Also, maybe you might want to make a sun abusers section with stuff like venusaur, specs heatran, CB victini in it, and maybe a trick room section?

 

[Agent Gibbs]

Would it be possible to organize the lists based on effectiveness or viability in a certain niche rather than alphabetical order? The main thing I'm looking at now is the Checks and Counters sections, where I think the more solid counters should be listed first and shakier checks listed last. I think this would be a little more helpful to newer players who are using this as a guide for teambuilding. For example, things like Mega Gardevoir and Talonflame can certainly check Keldeo, but if my team were especially Keldeo-weak, I'd be in the market for something more like Mega Venusaur or Latias. It doesn't have to be an exact ranking, but just something like: things that can switch in consistently > things that can switch in at least once or twice but can be worn down > things that can't switch in safely but still win 1v1. That way, players using this as a guide can just start at the beginning of the list and work their way down depending on how weak to the given threat that team is. You could extend this to other roles as well. For example, I'd put things like Landorus and Mega Metagross before Mega Ampharos and Thundurus-T as Rock Polish/Agility sweepers, while Pokemon such as Landorus-T and Heatran are considerably more viable as Stealth Rock setters than Pokemon like Mega Aggron and Mega Camerupt. Again, this doesn't have to be a perfect viability ranking, but it shouldn't be too hard to separate the Pokemon that are very common and good in a particular role from those that are less effective and/or more niche.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

I wouldn't really mind if we made a counters and checks to every mon in OU. Highest to lowest rank. There would be more discussion and why not?

 

[Kurona]

I wouldn't really mind if we made a counters and checks to every mon in OU. Highest to lowest rank. There would be more discussion and why not?

... because it would be ridiculously long and we'd need countless posts to do it? I don't think anyone's gonna cry if we don't make a Latias check section.

 

[Celticpride]

I wouldn't really mind if we made a counters and checks to every mon in OU. Highest to lowest rank. There would be more discussion and why not?

This is a role compendium. A few checks and counters to the top threats are ok, because meta defining threats really need checks and that turns into a role onto itself at a certain point (see Gatr checks in NU). But do you really need a specific checks list for things like Heatran, Chesnaught and Mega Garchomp? Not really. Also, there's this wonderful project that has been running for almost a year called Victim of the Week, and that's as close as you're probably going to get to a full checks and counters list being compiled.

Edit: that sounded really harsh, it's just a massive undertaking and doesn't really fit the goal of this particular thread.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

Actually, a checks and counters compendium sounds like a really cool resource. The basic idea of these compendiums is just to give players a simple visual resource to use when teambuilding since, for most people, it's easier to think about a list of Pokemon when you're looking at pictures rather than text. I've got spring break coming up soon with nothing planned, so I might be able to put together something like that for some of the top Pokemon in the metagame (B Rank and higher, basically).

As for this thread, I think it's fine to just focus on the top threats right now. You could add in a section for Fairy switch-ins because there are several good Fairies that teams need to be prepared for, but other than that, it's probably good as is.

 

[AM]

This threads focus should be roles primarily, not checks and counters. As mentioned above it's fine for now. Agent Gibbs if and when you plan on doing that contact me for approval.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

This is a role compendium. A few checks and counters to the top threats are ok, because meta defining threats really need checks and that turns into a role onto itself at a certain point (see Gatr checks in NU). But do you really need a specific checks list for things like Heatran, Chesnaught and Mega Garchomp? Not really. Also, there's this wonderful project that has been running for almost a year called Victim of the Week, and that's as close as you're probably going to get to a full checks and counters list being compiled.

Edit: that sounded really harsh, it's just a massive undertaking and doesn't really fit the goal of this particular thread.

The victim of the week takes ages though. I'd rather have a long list with every mon, and with atleast one or two checks/counters then wait until Victim of the week covers that exact set. And no, you weren't harsh :)

 

[firehusky]

K, Sheer Force Gatr is out now, so more stuff:

• Feraligatr under priority
• Feraligatr under SD
• Feraligatr under Dragon Dance

 

[Guidorealmsmc]

remove chandelure from choice scarf users and add it to stallbreakers as the stallbreaker set is the main reason it's ranked

 

[Froggyboy]

Add Slowking to Keldeo checks and Hippowdon to Landorus-T checks