Mime Jr. [QC 0/4]

[infamy]

dance dance dance

QC: --- | --- | --- | ---
GP: --- | ---

Overview
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+can boost both defense and special defense making it very versatile
+immune to roar and dragon tail
+has rare combination of barrier + baton pass
+good typing, psychic neutral to koff
+great support movepool
+decent stats
-awful offensive movepool relegates it to almost pure support


Baton Pass
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name: Baton Pass
move 1: Taunt / Encore
move 2: Barrier
move 3: Calm Mind / Substitute
move 4: Baton Pass
ability: Soundproof
item: Berry Juice / Eviolite
evs: 196 HP / 236 Def / 36 SpD / 36 Spe
nature: Bold nature / Timid nature

Moves
========

-encore lets you turn a lot of stuff into setup fodder. it lets you beat mienfoo that used drain punch if you have a speed boost and lets you cripple set up sweepers like timburr.
^OP suggests removing encore from the main set, please discuss this
-taunt also turns a lot of things into set up fodder, but they are generally different in nature from encore. encore lets you beat mienfoo if you have a speed boost as well as crippling a great deal of set up sweepers, while taunt is better versus more defensive teams.
-barrier boosts your def which is rly nice for bp teams bc more mons get cm than def boosting moves
-cm is cool for boosting spdef & spatk
-sub protects you from getting koed by crits and having your chain broken :( it also keeps you from getting statused
-bp is obligatory for bp teams lol

Set Details
========

-maxes out hp and def to let mime take physical hits
-rest goes in spdef
-36 evs in speed give it an extra point and they couldnt do anything else
-berry juice is semi-reliable recovery
-eviolite can be used for greater bulk but means you have no way to recover health, potentially compromising the durability of your chain- this is especially relevant when you get critted and have to start the chain again. if you do run eviolite, a timid nature is preferable to give you a bit more speed while maximizing hp and hitting eviolite numbers in the defenses.

Usage Tips
========

-use encore to set up on pokes like setup mons, mienfoo with drain punch, and stealth rock setters
-use taunt to set up against very passive pokemon like ferroseed
-use your respective set up moves against different mons- e.g. against a physical pokemon like drilbur you want to barrier, but against a pokemon like abra that primarily special moves you want to calm mind
-be wary of knock off because it removes your recovery on the berry juice set

Team Options
========

-torchic is fun for speed boosts
-mons that like def boosts such as munna are good teammates
-a baton pass receiver like munna that can abuse stored power is a must-have on baton pass teams

Other Options
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-nasty plot is cool w/ bp
-magic coat can help against status moves
-hypnosis can be useful but unreliable
-good spatk means you can run offensive set
-fake out is neat to break sturdies
-can also be trick room setter

Checks & Counters
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**knock off**: knock off removes mime's only way to recover in the case of the bj set, but its not a big deal for eviolite
**poison-types**: gastly can hit mime hard with both stabs and skrelp really hurts it as well
**very hard hits**: if mime doesnt have any boosts it can sometimes be ohkoed by hard hits due to its low hp
**critical hits**: crits can ko mime through its boosts, but you can't really predict around them so they're just something to be wary of

 

[infamy]

qc ready

 

[OP]

So I've been using BP a lot recently because of its controversy and I've found Taunt to be a lot for useful than Encore. It allows Mime to not be set up bait and gives BP a way to beat a lot of things it would otherwise have a tough time against like Haze and hazards. I'd just put Encore in OO. I also prefer Eviolite over Berry Juice on it because I find it setting up on Fighting-types a lot, thoughts whether it should be first or second slash?

Overview:
Mention the big reasons its used on BP teams! Things like an immunity to Roar + Dragon Tail, only one of 2 with Barrier + BP, w/e else you think

Moves:
Encore description --> Taunt description
Sub stops Status and Clear Smog. Please change the second verb here n_n

Set Details:
Add Eviolite

Usage Tips:
Add taunt usage things, remove encore
Be wary of Knock Off on the BJ set since we're adding Evio
I guess something about using the correct boosting move for what you're against

Team Options:
Wish passing on BP isn't really a thing, I would remove that.
Add mentions of a BP recipient/sweeper like Stored Power Munna/Natu (Ik natu can't BP with bounce, but its just such an amazing wincon for BP)

Other Options:
Encore

Checks & Counters:
Remove the dashes in front of each one.
Remove Knock Off, even if it was just BJ, I don't think it should be here
I'm unsure about crits, since its not like a player can actively try to crit unless Scope Lens/Focus Energy Horsea haha
Maybe add some general BP checks that Mime doesn't deal with like Taunt and Encore

QC 1/4 :]

 

[infamy]

yeah sorry i was in a bit of a rush to post this because i didn't want to lose it, its one of my favorite mons n_n

i prefer berry juice from my experience over eviolite because it lets you come in, sponge a hit, and start setting up. i'm putting eviolite as second slash for now, might change it later.

im not sure why you want to remove encore from the main set, its part of what lets it set up so well and while taunt does some of that, encore has a lot over that. for example, it lets you beat mienfoo much more easily by encoring it into drain punch, whereas taunting it would mean you would get knocked off, which mime really hates (see: second usage tips suggestion). i'm giving taunt second slash for now because i think encores ability to beat foo and a lot of other mons is better in my experience.

i don't know about you but i've run wishpass on bp a good bit lately and i've had a lot of success with it; i'm hesitant to remove it.

i really don't like natu as a bp sweeper. in my experience, its really frail and it has a lot of trouble actually making use of magic bounce because it breaks your chains. you can make up for its inability to be statused with subs and youre not going to be switching it into phazing moves very often unless your opponent just remembered that they have whirlwind hippo and youre already boosted enough lol. i've used woobat a lot lately instead of natu because it lets baton pass deal with set up sweepers way more easily, so i'd like to hear what you think of putting it there instead. i'll add munna for sure though though.

i'm not sure about removing knock off either. it really cripples mime either way, it's definitely at least a check in my opinion.

crits are definitely a threat to mime, and a lot of people really don't prepare for them. yes, you can't predict them, but it's extremely likely that you'll be critted at least once through the course of even a short match, which is why i have it there.

thanks for the input. i'm not putting the qc 1/4 in the title until we can discuss some of your points more, is this proper protocol? anyway i just want to discuss some things you said in greater detail before i add/remove them. sorry if i pretty much disagreed with everything you said, but i've spent many many hours using baton pass and i feel i know the playstyle really well. please feel free to discuss your points with me, but i'm not sure about them at the moment.

 

[OP]

im not sure why you want to remove encore from the main set, its part of what lets it set up so well and while taunt does some of that, encore has a lot over that. for example, it lets you beat mienfoo much more easily by encoring it into drain punch, whereas taunting it would mean you would get knocked off, which mime really hates (see: second usage tips suggestion). i'm giving taunt second slash for now because i think encores ability to beat foo and a lot of other mons is better in my experience.

Very few Pokemon can run BP and Taunt and Taunt is incredibly important to not just automatically lose to certain moves like Haze or Whirlwind. Mienfoo is the least of Mime's worries and is easily beaten by just using Barrier instead. This is another reason why Eviolite is a better item imo because it makes the BP team more versatile and able to beat more things like Fighters and previously mentioned moves with the same set. I've always found it better to just use Barrier/Calm Mind than to Encore, especially considering a ton of things you might be Encoring will likely just switch out.

i don't know about you but i've run wishpass on bp a good bit lately and i've had a lot of success with it; i'm hesitant to remove it.

The only mons that get Wish + BP are pretty terrible, but I haven't personally tried it and if you feel strongly that it's good, go ahead and keep for now.

i really don't like natu as a bp sweeper. in my experience, its really frail and it has a lot of trouble actually making use of magic bounce because it breaks your chains. you can make up for its inability to be statused with subs and youre not going to be switching it into phazing moves very often unless your opponent just remembered that they have whirlwind hippo and youre already boosted enough lol. i've used woobat a lot lately instead of natu because it lets baton pass deal with set up sweepers way more easily, so i'd like to hear what you think of putting it there instead. i'll add munna for sure though though.

First of all, Natu is not frail with comparable bulk to Mienfoo. Secondly, Frailness is one of your lest concerns when you're passing a ton of defensive boosts anyway. Natu gives BP teams more versatility, which is absolutely critical to not autolose in certain matchups. It gives BP teams a standing chance against teams with things like Whirlwind. Natu also has absolutely amazing coverage in Stored Power, Heat Wave, and Dazzling Gleam. Honestly the example of sweepers doesn't really matter, but Natu is really good n_n

i'm not sure about removing knock off either. it really cripples mime either way, it's definitely at least a check in my opinion.

crits are definitely a threat to mime, and a lot of people really don't prepare for them. yes, you can't predict them, but it's extremely likely that you'll be critted at least once through the course of even a short match, which is why i have it there.

How does Knock Off cripple Mime any more than other Pokemon? One of the Mime's biggest benefits is being neutral to Knock Off. There's no reason to emphasize the fact that it doesn't like it so much

I get that you have a lot of experience with BP, but after talking to ZF a lot about it and using it myself for at least ~40 games, I'm pretty knowledgeable at this point. The biggest concern when building BP teams is to make it as versatile as possible so that it isn't matchup dependent and you can win any game. Having an easier matchup against things you beat already is not a great goal to build for and the changes I want to make reflect that.

 

[infamy]

Very few Pokemon can run BP and Taunt and Taunt is incredibly important to not just automatically lose to certain moves like Haze or Whirlwind. Mienfoo is the least of Mime's worries and is easily beaten by just using Barrier instead. This is another reason why Eviolite is a better item imo because it makes the BP team more versatile and able to beat more things like Fighters and previously mentioned moves with the same set. I've always found it better to just use Barrier/Calm Mind than to Encore, especially considering a ton of things you might be Encoring will likely just switch out.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, Mienfoo was just an example. What I was saying was that it possessed the capability to cripple many threats, including Mienfoo. Eviolite strips Mime of recovery which gives the team a lot more trouble in the event the chain is broken. Berry Juice also generally lets you set up on more in my opinion, since you can effectively boost up against something and then get all your health back whereas with Eviolite you get worn down a lot more easily. I'm going to keep Eviolite as the second slash, but if any other QC members disagree I'll move it up.

The only mons that get Wish + BP are pretty terrible, but I haven't personally tried it and if you feel strongly that it's good, go ahead and keep for now.

Wish + BP is sometimes useful, but yeah it can be fairly inconsistent. I think I'll remove it for now.

First of all, Natu is not frail with comparable bulk to Mienfoo. Secondly, Frailness is one of your lest concerns when you're passing a ton of defensive boosts anyway. Natu gives BP teams more versatility, which is absolutely critical to not autolose in certain matchups. It gives BP teams a standing chance against teams with things like Whirlwind. Natu also has absolutely amazing coverage in Stored Power, Heat Wave, and Dazzling Gleam. Honestly the example of sweepers doesn't really matter, but Natu is really good n_n

Sorry, but I really think Natu is frail. First off, Mienfoo's really not that bulky, it only lasts so long in games because of Regenerator. Second, Natu has an awful defensive typing, particularly a weakness to Knock Off. It also really has a lot of trouble living strong, boosted hits even boosted, but this is kinda a moot point for this thread.

How does Knock Off cripple Mime any more than other Pokemon? One of the Mime's biggest benefits is being neutral to Knock Off. There's no reason to emphasize the fact that it doesn't like it so much

It's mostly for the Berry Juice set, since getting stripped of recovery is pretty annoying. I think I will tone down the emphasis of this though.

I get that you have a lot of experience with BP, but after talking to ZF a lot about it and using it myself for at least ~40 games, I'm pretty knowledgeable at this point. The biggest concern when building BP teams is to make it as versatile as possible so that it isn't matchup dependent and you can win any game. Having an easier matchup against things you beat already is not a great goal to build for and the changes I want to make reflect that.

Sorry about taking literally forever to do this, I kinda forgot it existed to be honest. Replies in bold. I'm not planning on removing Encore though, since set up sweepers are really a big threat to BP teams and it's nice to be able to cripple those. It also lets you generally check and force out a lot of stuff, like Pokemon that used Stealth Rock or Roost. Moving it to second slash though. I also changed Gastly to Poison-types since Skrelp annoys it as well. Sorry again about the delay.

 

[sparktrain]

Hiya Infamy

Moves
- Encore is legit, and I agree it should stay on the main set. I do feel that Taunt is generally superior, however, so keep Encore slashed second and switch around their corresponding bullet points as needed. If anyone wants to discuss this, feel free to bring it up with me.

Set Details
- Be sure to mention what Soundproof is for here.
- There's usually not much of a reason for Timid imo... I suppose it lets you outspeed the unboosted metagame at +1 if you were forced into a tight spot with Torchic, maybe some random stuff at +0 that I'm forgetting, but a lot of the time you're just better off with Bold and having that extra Defense to maximize the number of physical hitters that you can set up against, even if it's not an Eviolite number. Your call I guess.

Team Options
- I'm gonna side with OP on this one, Natu really is a legit receiver, having used it quite a bit myself. It's indeed frailer and can't use Baton Pass itself, but Magic Bounce and better coverage do give it legitimate selling points over Munna-- both are amazing wincons. So I'd really appreciate seeing Natu listed next to Munna; Woobat can be mentioned as well. Munna might be the best recipient overall, but it's inaccurate to imply it's the only option.

Other Options
- Psychic can get a special mention here for BP Mime; if Mime has already obtained at least one Speed boost, it can outspeed and annihilate Gastly with even an uninvested Psychic. Does a fair bit to Skrelp as well.

0 SpA Mime Jr. Psychic vs. 0 HP / 80 SpD Gastly: 24-30 (126.3 - 157.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

...of course, BP Mime usually won't want to give up one of its current moveslots, but it's a neat and surprising option nonetheless.

- Technician can get a very brief mention next to the offensive set mention; all of Mime Jr's Hidden Powers hit surprisingly hard with the ability.

Checks & Counters
- Poison-types should be listed before Knock Off; Mime Jr can take Knock Offs if it absolutely needs to, whereas Gastly/Skrelp are incredibly threatening to the main set unless it has already accumulated a bunch of SpD boosts.
- Examples of very hard hitters?


Talked with OP earlier to make sure he was still cool with his check being 1/4, and he said yeah. So with that, nice job man, QC 2/4

 

[sparktrain]

Hey Infamy, how's this coming?

 

[infamy]

euhm this is a thing i folgot oops xd sorry spark ill get on it

 

[OP]

This has been reassigned.