I honestly think that Decidueye is good but NOT THAT GOOD as many people is thinking right now. I guess people want to believe is good just because is a clearly fan-favorite. It has a good niche but I don't see Decidueye being in the OU tier but it'll probably shine in the UU tier just like other starters. I think that people always want the starters to be good but they never have been really good as many other pokémon. The only viable starters are the ones with a mega evolution or with an excellent hidden ability (for example M-Charizard X/Y, Blaziken, Greninja, M-Venasaur and Serperior) but without mega evolution or those hidden abilities they would be outclassed. I'm not criticizing Decidueye, it is my favorite starter in this gen, but let's be honest: all the roles it can assume, other pokémon can do it better. The only thing that makes Decidueye desirable is its signature move spirit shackle, nothing else. It would have been an excellent mon if its SpA stat were in the place where its Speed is but it would have been "too overpowered" or very emphasized on only a few sets.
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Pokémon Decidueye
- Thread starter Jaguar360
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Nobody's saying it's amazing or even going to be OU. We're discussing and going over the potential it can have, and I'm pretty sure we've all found the limitations and gone over everything Decidueye can be and do. Also, name me another Defogger that also blocks Rapid Spin and checks Lando-I at the same time. You can't. As a bulky Defogger it has competition from pokemon like Skarmory, Zapdos, Tapu Fini, even Lati twins to an extent. As an Offensive Ghost mon, it's outclassed by Gengar and Alolawak. As an Offensive Grass type it has competition from Serperior, Breloom, and Mega Venusaur to an extent. As a Bulky Grass type it faces competition from Mega Venusaur, Amoonguss, and Tangrowth. You're not using Decidueye to preform a role better than another Pokemon. You're using Decidueye to compress all those roles into a neat little package that can do a bit of this and a tad of that. It's definitely going to be UU with a niche in OU. We can all acknowledge that. Hell I acknowledged it Day 1 and only tried to play to Decidueye's strengths and what it can adapt to in the meta.
I'm not sure how many times this has to be said. It's as if people are just looking at the thread size and skimming the content to come to their conclusion.
Nobody is saying that this mon is gonna be a super powerful threat in OU. I don't know why people keep bringing that up. However, it has viability and noticeable usability in that tier. That's all. We were all ready to write it off the second we saw its stats. But it turns out, it's a hell of a lot better than we gave it credit for.
There are many UU mons that have that distinction, Chesnaught comes to mind. Thats what this is.
Nobody is saying that this mon is gonna be a super powerful threat in OU. I don't know why people keep bringing that up. However, it has viability and noticeable usability in that tier. That's all. We were all ready to write it off the second we saw its stats. But it turns out, it's a hell of a lot better than we gave it credit for.
There are many UU mons that have that distinction, Chesnaught comes to mind. Thats what this is.
You're right but I guess that Decidueye can't do all those things at the same time, if you can show me how then I'll be grateful. Although I know that this thread it's to discuss about its potential, there are people who think it's gonna be amazing in OU, maybe it would be when the tiers and the metagame are defined, but I think that they are working too hard to make it OU staple even when it is not, at least there are people who really know where Decidueye belongs and what are its roles as you said before. However, I think that with the right tools and with and efficient team support, this owl could be great, if a pachirisu could, why this archer not? Also I forgot the fact that it is a Deffoger which blocks rapid spin, you got a good point, that makes him even better. On the other hand I think it is a bit frail and somewhat slow and in order to make spirit shackle's secondary effects work, Decidueye has to remain in battle and receiving hits is not something that Decidueye can do very well, at least by the physical side.
This thing can't be 2hko'd by lando-i at all, on the spdef side it's actually by no means frail. Believe ut or not, it doesn't take a lot of hits due to the threat of trapping something. Some things don't want to be shackled and potentially trapped by a team mate like mag or dougy so they leave. So he actually presents plenty of opportunity to defog on top of aforementioned bulk.
There are plenty of things that don't want to be trapped, but I guess that spirit shackle can be kinda predictable, then the opponent can switch in something that has no problem with being trapped and outspeed Decidueye and finally defeat it, or even the opponent can switch in a normal type which is immune to spirit shackle, although I think there are only a few cases where this things can happen but if it happens, what would you recommend to avoid losing Decidueye?
Regarding Spirit Shackle being predictable, someone earlier mentioned the possibility for mindgames by going straight for U-Turn if you predict the opponent will bring in something that won't mind being shackled.
Decidueye @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 242 Atk / 96 Def / 170 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Leaf Blade
- Spirit Shackle
- Roost
I tried to make a set where Decidueye can't be ko'd easily while also being somewhat fast and strong, making use of two good STAB moves (obviously spirit shackle has to be there), having leftovers allow Decidueye to save roost PP for critical moments or to make a better recover but something is telling me that the EV spread is wrong. What would be the best EV spread and the right nature in order to make Decidueye hit hard, resist several hits and outspeed mons with similar speed?
Do you think Low sweep is usable in Decidueye? I'm aware Decidueye is by no means an offensive Pokemon, but being able to lower target's speed can actually build momentum, right? and if you can lure your switches, thinking Decidueye will use Spirit Shackle and you use U-turn, do you think Low Sweep can add some utility to this aspect of punishing switches?
Pardon me if I'm not being clear, it's just a random idea I had
Pardon me if I'm not being clear, it's just a random idea I had
It might be a good idea if you're aiming to punish switchers due to Spirit Shackle and Normal types that are immune to Spirit Shackle aswell. It can be an addition to mind games.
Seems hard to fit on a moveset, Decidueye has serious 4 MSS as is (Spirit Shackle/Leaf Blade/Sucker Punch/U-Turn/Brave Bird/Roost/Defog/Substitute/Toxic, to name 9 contenders).
However if Low Sweep lets Decidueye lure/trap + kill something that I'm missing let me know.
Well, it can lure Tyranitar, Bisharp and Weavile, who are imo some powerful dark types Pokemon who don't mind Spirit Shackle at all and can kill Decidueye
However, I'm not aware how relevant is it
Low sweep is definitely a viable coverage move. With enough investment, he can kill weavile and bisharp easy.
But Decidueye also has a bunch of other good moves he'd like to run too.
I prefer just having a support pokemon like Keldeo slay those threats for me.
But Decidueye also has a bunch of other good moves he'd like to run too.
I prefer just having a support pokemon like Keldeo slay those threats for me.
Low sweep may be a viable coverage move but I think it is not strong enough to punish switchers and kill easily Dark or Normal type mons, however if it doesn't kill them it will low their speed by one stage so it also may give Decidueye the opportunity to move first the next turn and finish them with ease. Although as many other people in this thread are saying, I think Decidueye's most reliable role is to be a Pivot or a Trapper, not a Sweeper
I'll need to check my calcs later, but I think 80 Attack EV with a neutral nature can 2KO Tyranitar and Bisharp (enough to make them slower and then finish them with U-turn, maybe more EV are needed to Bisharp due to Sucker Punch) and 0KO Weavile
I thought in this because I remembered NP Celebi in previous gen, which was used as a less passive way to use Celebi's supportive traits, so I just thought Decidueye could work in a similar way to becoming him in a less passive mon to bring momentum with temporal trapping, U-turning and speed control, rather than using it in a offensive way
It was just a random idea thought, even with the things I said I'm not sure is a optime set, it might work in lower tiers but idk
I'm not sure either but I guess it can work well with the right EVs, so you mentioned Low Sweep, U-Turn and I guess that Spirit Shackle has to be there, what would be the fourth move? And if you are going to se this set in lower tiers I think it may not be a good idea since Low Sweep is there to check threats like Tyranitar, Weavile and Bisharp, all of them are in the OU tier (and all of them have a x4 weakness to fighting LOL)
Well, the idea of being an offensive momentum mon with temporal trapping, U-turning and speed control could work in lower tiers, obviously it'll need a different EV spread if I'd need to check different threats
Uhh I think Decidueye could use Roost as a 4th moveslot, I mean, it'll cause switches, and has a decent bulk with proper EV spread, so I think it could be used to keep it healthy and still bringing momentum
Or a set with Spirit Shackle/Low Sweep/Substitute/Batton pass could work too, but its longevity would be heavily commited, so I think it's not a good idea at all
I think that with the right EV spread, Roost is the best 4th moveslot. I think that using substitute and passing it it's not a good idea since Decidueye does not excel in HP and as you said before its longevity would be thrown to trash. This owl has so many possibilities but I don't know which is the right one in order to make Decidueye perform well.
I've been using a similar set in partner with Xurkitree, Trap the Decidueye switch in and then pivot into Z-Hypnosis + TG Xurkitree, Set up with ZHypno (+1 Speed)/TG and hit the Xurkitree switch in.
I think this set could be used really well paired with Settup sweepers who struggle to set up/check Decidueye's checks.
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I don't want to disappoint people or to get a lot of hate, im just relating what ive seen so far:
I really don't believe decidueye has potential to stay in OU. Even for UU, where some speculative tier battles are already going on, it is not a strong hazard controler, specially because it cannot switch in mons with the slightest coverage, bulky waters that may run ice beam or dark moves for example. Im not saying it cannot have a niche, low sweep definitely gives it some diversity, but still, most Fire and Flying types dont bother being trapped by decidueye because they are forcing him out anyways (or pursuit trapping it like A-muk) and volt-turn mons are still switching out after spirit shackle which represents an important part of the meta.
I believe the baton pass set is the most viable/relevant/broken as you can trap something that will come in as a check and set swords dance/substitute/z-sunny day[dunno if this one is legit] for a sweeper.
I really don't believe decidueye has potential to stay in OU. Even for UU, where some speculative tier battles are already going on, it is not a strong hazard controler, specially because it cannot switch in mons with the slightest coverage, bulky waters that may run ice beam or dark moves for example. Im not saying it cannot have a niche, low sweep definitely gives it some diversity, but still, most Fire and Flying types dont bother being trapped by decidueye because they are forcing him out anyways (or pursuit trapping it like A-muk) and volt-turn mons are still switching out after spirit shackle which represents an important part of the meta.
I believe the baton pass set is the most viable/relevant/broken as you can trap something that will come in as a check and set swords dance/substitute/z-sunny day[dunno if this one is legit] for a sweeper.
Yeah in the UU beta matches I've seen I haven't seen Decidueye do much compared to things like Primarina, Scizor, Mimikyu etc. but still it can be something that is more favored as the metagame progresses.
Well... the metagame has not been defined yet but I don't see Decidueye going really far, it has a good niche but it doesn't mean it is going to be defining for this meta, at least I think it can do some good things if the opportunity is given.
It's got good utility which makes it a good fit on many teams bit it probably doesn't do anything good enough for it to be meta defining even in lower tiers...I could be wrong though and I don't want to jump to conclusions this early but that's how I feel as of now.
I feel exactly the same, it has good utility to assume different roles but I don't know if it is good enough assuming them, I have tried some battles along this mon and I've had good results but sometimes I got problems with bulky mons or with fast sweepers (especially with the Ultra Beasts), but many others in this thread said that they have been succesful with it so I do't know what to think right now. I don't know if it is being a little overrated or it's being underestimated.
Most of the people here are in agreement that he's not OU.
Why does everyone feel the need to remind us lol
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