Other Counter That Pokemon! (Final Battle Friday @ 12 PM EST)

[Lolme]

So....who are the nominates again?

 

[Random Passerby]

Diancie @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Diamond Storm
- Stealth Rock
- Rest
- Moonblast

With this set, Diancie doesn't even care about anything Talonflame does and can hit it very hard even when burned
0 Atk burned Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 8 Def Talonflame: 284-336 (78.8 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. (If Talonflame Bulks Up, it is still OHKOed by DS. Even if Talonflame Bulks Up and burns Diancie, it has a high chance of being 2HKOed (0 Atk burned Diancie Diamond Storm vs. +1 252 HP / 8 Def Talonflame: 188-224 (52.2 - 62.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO -> This will kill after factoring in the first hit)

It also punishes Kyurem-B who switches in freely with Diamond Storm or Moonblast. Earth Power only has a low chance to 2HKO without Stealth Rock. Rest is there to provide recovery and prevents it from being worn down too easily. Stealth Rock is there because Diancie easily sets it up with its bulk.

EDIT: Replaced Lum Berry with Chesto Berry.

 

[G-Von]

Diancie @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Diamond Storm
- Stealth Rock
- Rest
- Moonblast

With this set, Diancie doesn't even care about anything Talonflame does and can hit it very hard even when burned (although Lum Berry can alleviate this once)
0 Atk burned Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 8 Def Talonflame: 284-336 (78.8 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. (If Talonflame Bulks Up, it is still OHKOed by DS. Even if Talonflame Bulks Up and burns Diancie, it has a high chance of being 2HKOed (0 Atk burned Diancie Diamond Storm vs. +1 252 HP / 8 Def Talonflame: 188-224 (52.2 - 62.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO -> This will kill after factoring in the first hit)

It also punishes Kyurem-B who switches in freely with Diamond Storm or Moonblast. Earth Power only has a low chance to 2HKO without Stealth Rock. Rest is there to provide recovery and prevents it from being worn down too easily. Stealth Rock is there because Diancie easily sets it up with its bulk

Quick note: wouldn't you rather run Chesto Berry to ensure that Diancie will be able to wake up from Rest immediately and simultaneously ridding itself from any possible status instead of burning it's item on something like a paralysis? It would be unfortunate for the Diancie user to see its wake up tool get used when it wasn't planned at that moment.

 

[Homeslice]

So are we voting or not? There wasn't really a formal post.

I'd like to just reiterate why I think Empoleon is the best choice right now. I'll use G-Von's list for help.
1. SR setter
Uses defog, makes hazards obsolete because Defog will get rid of ours anyways. Waiting to KO Deo-D, then Defog, then set hazards will take way too much time and is pointless. KOing Deo-D will take long enough as is.
2. Talonflame counter
Literally gives 0 fucks about BB, is special so doesn't care about being burned and BU doesn't make it weaker, Surf OHKOs.
3.Deals with Azumarill
(should be) Faster than max speed Azumarill, Flash Cannon (should) OHKO, Aqua Jet won't OHKO. Forces it to run Superpower to check it so it misses out on Aqua Jet or Knock Off
4. KOs Deo-D
Can't do this, but I'm like 99% convinced we should leave this for the last mon because they're probably going to be a wall breaker anyways.

Barring this list, Surf prevents Landy from switching in, Flash Cannon dents Cube, HP Fire 2hkos Ferrothorn just as Fire Blast does from Ttar (who also ruins Multiscale from sandstorm) but it won't miss. Obviously struggles against Deo-D but again, it'll be much easier to deal with that next round. Empoleon just helps deal with other mons on Team 1 better than Zapdos does (just has Toxic Stall to deal with anything not named Talonflame).

 

[G-Von]

There has been a lot of discussion this round regarding the choices of Team 2's 5th pokemon and it has gone quite well I must say. Many of the nominations made this round are very deserving to be the next choice, but there can only be one choice made right now. Without further ado, here are the nominations for Team 2's 5th pokemon:

Lolme's EB Thundurus
Homeslice's Defog Empoleon
Jin White's EB SR Terrakion
G-Von's LO SR Bisharp
Red Cat's SR Tyrantrum
LightningLuxray's Defensive Zapdos
Random Passerby's Chesto Resto Diancie

As usual, send the votes into me through a PM by naming your TOP CHOICE in the title and body of the message of the pokemon you believe will fit best onto Team 2. Instead of your top 3 choices, your top choice should suffice now that we are this deep into this project. The voting will last until sometime Saturday, July 19th.

 

[Jin White]

regarding zapdos vs. empoleon

- empoleon has a 33% chance to 2HKO ferrothorn, although it's not a surefire win w/ t-wave, power whip (3HKO)
- empoleon 2HKOs kyurem-b, but takes a massive beating from fusion bolt [ 0 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 56 HP / 4 Def Empoleon: 254-300 (78.6 - 92.8%) ]
- empoleon gets OHKOd by landorus
- counters BU talonflame and OHKOs
- can't touch Deo-D

on the other hand...

- zapdos can't touch ferrothorn, but easily pressure stalls it out of power whips at the cost of losing its item
- outspeeds & toxics kyurem-b, but can't break its sub
- is an okay check to lando-i & beats it 1v1 by toxic stalling it [ 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 166-196 (43.2 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery ]
- counters BU talonflame and OHKOs
- toxics Deo-D
- has recovery

breaking Deo-D is p important imo... scizor can always come in for free on a kyurem behind a sub

 

[LightningLuxray]

Another problem with Empoleon is the fact that it has no reliable recovery. I mean I just don't see how Empoleon is going to be reliably countering Talonflame throughout the match when it's going to be taking Will-O, hazard (most likely going to be switching into them since it has to remove them), and Brave Bird damage. Not to mention it loses against a good majority of Team 1's Pokemon. Overall, I don't feel Empoleon has the longevity to be out pick. (Maybe if it got Roost but :c)

 

[G-Von]

It's finally Saturday which means I'm closing the voting now since we have a clear winner:
LightningLuxray's Zapdos-5
Homeslice's Empoleon-1
Red Cat's Tyrantrum-1

And the 5th member of Team 2 is now Defensive Zapdos!

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Toxic
- Defog
- Thunderbolt
- Roost

Team 2 officially has a solid answer to Talonflame with reliable recovery, at least some sort of way of dealing with Deo-D, and a mon to clear hazards off of the field. Now is the most crucial time for Team 2: its final selection. This pick as to pretty much has to fill any holes that haven't been filled yet by any of the 5 previous selections while also giving Team 1 the most trouble with selecting their final pokemon. Let the nominatons and discussion begin!

 

[G-Von]

#sorrynotsorryforthedoublepost

As a reference, here are how the teams are currently looking:
Team 1

Landorus @ Life Orb
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earth Power
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- U-turn

Ferrothorn@Leftovers
EV's: 252 HP/252 SpD/4 Def
Trait: Iron Barbs
Careful Nature
-Power Whip
-Thunder Wave
-Leech Seed
-Knock Off

Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
Quiet Nature
- Substitute
- Ice Beam
- Fusion Bolt
- Earth Power

Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Bulk Up
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost

Deoxys-Defense @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SDef
Bold Nature
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Recover
- Night Shade

Team 2

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 216 HP / 64 Atk / 228 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Roost
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
- Dragon Claw

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
Hydro Pump
Ice Beam
Extrasensory
U-turn

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 28 Atk / 112 Def / 100 SpD / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off

Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 240 Atk / 16 SAtk
Hasty Nature
- Fire Blast
- Close Combat
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- U-turn

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Toxic
- Defog
- Thunderbolt
- Roost

 

[Arcanine is Regal]

not that I havae been participating, so sorry for just butting in, but what are you guys going to do about deoxys-D?

 

[Mowtom]

not that I havae been participating, so sorry for just butting in, but what are you guys going to do about deoxys-D?

Well, Zapdos can Toxic it, but that is pretty much it. Zapdos was chosen because Talonflame was a more immediate threat (Talonflame beat everyone else 1v1), but this pick has to be a reliable way to deal with Deo-D that can also set rocks.

 

[Arcanine is Regal]

Well, Zapdos can Toxic it, but that is pretty much it. Zapdos was chosen because Talonflame was a more immediate threat (Talonflame beat everyone else 1v1), but this pick has to be a reliable way to deal with Deo-D that can also set rocks.

no no no, I mean deoxys-d is banned now, so do you still keep it or what?

 

[Mowtom]

no no no, I mean deoxys-d is banned now, so do you still keep it or what?

We still keep it. We can't undo 2 picks. It's kind of like how the Deos are legal in the mini tour, because they were legal when it started.

 

[Raggedjoe]

So, obviously the goal now is to have another pokemon that can help against Talonflame and Deo-D and has defensive synergy with the rest of the team. Thundrus (TBolt, TWave, HP Ice/Incinerate, Taunt) does the first two, but then Team 1 would be able to pick someone like AV TTar which would wreck pretty hard. I think this is the wrong direction to go though because defensive synergy should be the priority for the last pick. On that note, what about Clefable (Calm Mind, Flamethrower, Moonblast, Softboiled)? Solid defensive player that can easily become an offensive power if brought in at the right time, or if her counters have been eliminated. Alternating Softboiled and Calm Mind after dangerous physical attackers have been dealt with is often a route to victory for my team, though Team 1 is mostly physical attackers, so maybe a physical wall would be better, but then, we have Zapdos for that already.

What are people's thoughts? Just kind of throwing out musings.

 

[LightningLuxray]

So just for clarification, we're picking the final member for Team 2?

 

[Jin White]

So, obviously the goal now is to have another pokemon that can help against Talonflame and Deo-D and has defensive synergy with the rest of the team. Thundrus (TBolt, TWave, HP Ice/Incinerate, Taunt) does the first two, but then Team 1 would be able to pick someone like AV TTar which would wreck pretty hard. I think this is the wrong direction to go though because defensive synergy should be the priority for the last pick. On that note, what about Clefable (Calm Mind, Flamethrower, Moonblast, Softboiled)? Solid defensive player that can easily become an offensive power if brought in at the right time, or if her counters have been eliminated. Alternating Softboiled and Calm Mind after dangerous physical attackers have been dealt with is often a route to victory for my team, though Team 1 is mostly physical attackers, so maybe a physical wall would be better, but then, we have Zapdos for that already.

What are people's thoughts? Just kind of throwing out musings.

A stealth rock setter is pretty much mandatory.

@ LightningLuxray yep

 

[Sidnv]

Team 2 might need something that can deal with Latios running Draco Meteor/ Psyshock / HP Fire/ Defog. It threatens to OHKO everything on Team 2 except Greninja or a perfect health Dragonite and also provides Team 1 the Defog support it needs.

To give a suggestion, maybe Tyranitar with Stealth Rock/ Crunch/ Stone Edge/ Fire Blast? Even uninvested, a burned Tyranitar's Stone Edge does a minimum of 67% damage to Talonflame and with investment in attack, unburned Crunch + Sandstorm can break through Deoxys' Recover. Tar can also obviously set up Stealth Rocks and deal with the above mentioned Latios set without a problem if some investment in special bulk is made.

This is not a nomination because I couldn't figure out what the best EV distribution so for now, it's just something I'm throwing out there.

 

[Lolme]

Ok so I'm retaking my Special Ttar idea now as a nomination.
EDITED

Tyranitar @ Expert Belt
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 12 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 240 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Ancient Power
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock

It basically deals with Deo D, Ferro and Talonflame while nothing on Team 2 can safely switch into without risking losing 50% HP. Please note that this guy is not taking hits from anything outside Talonflame as it is not a tank set, we need Dragonair for Landorus, Scizor for Kyurem B if over 50% health and Zapdos for random physical attack.

Now you may have noticed that the usual Sandstorm has been changed to Unnerve, why? well I don't want Team 2 losing more health than they should everytime they are on the field and I don't want a random Sandrush Excadril pick on Team 1 to suddenly outspeed and OHKO all our pokes. Honestly, sandstorm would only be useful for dealing with Kyurem-B 1vs1 as of now.

Offense

252+ SpA Tyranitar Ancient Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 188-224 (41.4 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Expert Belt Tyranitar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 331-394 (94 - 111.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Expert Belt Tyranitar Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Deoxys-D: 182-216 (59.8 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Expert Belt Tyranitar Ancient Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 566-667 (157.2 - 185.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Tyranitar Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 157-186 (43.6 - 51.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Tyranitar Ancient Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 105-124 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock (on switch)
252+ SpA Tyranitar Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 139-165 (43.5 - 51.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (Predicting a switch)

Defense

252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 87-102 (25.2 - 29.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Teravolt Kyurem-B Earth Power vs. 12 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar: 204-240 (59.3 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 228-270 (66.2 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (f**king Fire Blast better hit)

Against possible choices

Azumarril
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 218-260 (63.3 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Tyranitar Ancient Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 105-124 (25.9 - 30.6%) -- 15.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

M-Carizard X
252+ Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 222-262 (64.5 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Expert Belt Tyranitar Ancient Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 240-283 (80.5 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Expert Belt Tyranitar Ancient Power vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mega Charizard X: 182-218 (50.5 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (If such thing even exist)
M-Gyarados
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 302-356 (87.7 - 103.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Tyranitar Ancient Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados: 69-82 (20.7 - 24.6%) -- 91.1% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock

M-Aerodactyl
252+ Atk Mega Aerodactyl Earthquake vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 226-268 (65.6 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Expert Belt Tyranitar Ancient Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Aerodactyl: 218-259 (72.1 - 85.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Just to clarify, I'm chosing Satk over Atk so Ttar can better deal with Team 1 even with a burn. Physcal Ttar would struggle against Deo-D if it gets burn for wathever reason and if facing Ferro 1vs1 there is a much higher risk of getting hit by Power Whip and losing its Talonflame counter status.

 

[Mowtom]

Ok so I'm retaking my Special Ttar idea now as a nomination.

Tyranitar @ Expert Belt
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 20 HP / 252 SpA / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock

It basically deals with Deo D, Ferro and Talonflame while nothing on Team 2 can safely switch into without risking losing 50% HP. Spd EVs are enough to outspeed Deo-D; otherwise, Modest with 184 spd for Kyurem-B and leftovers would be better. Please note that this guy is not taking hits from anything outside Talonflame as it is not a tank set, we need Dragonair for Landorus, Scizor for Kyurem B if over 50% health and Zapdos for random physical attack.

Now you may have noticed that the usual Sandstorm has been changed to Unnerve, why? well I don't want Team 2 losing more health than they should everytime they are on the field and I don't want a random Sandrush Excadril pick on Team 1 to suddenly outspeed and OHKO all our pokes. Honestly, sandstorm would only be useful for dealing with Kyurem-B 1 vs 1 as of now.

Offense
252 SpA Expert Belt Tyranitar Hidden Power Rock vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 209-247 (46 - 54.4%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Expert Belt Tyranitar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 302-360 (85.7 - 102.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO (OHKO if switches into any attack and SR before Fire Blast)
252 SpA Expert Belt Tyranitar Hidden Power Rock vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 518-610 (143.8 - 169.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Tyranitar Hidden Power Rock vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 96-114 (30 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock (on switch)

Defense
252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 20 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 87-102 (25.1 - 29.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Teravolt Kyurem-B Earth Power vs. 20 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar: 204-242 (58.9 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 20 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 228-270 (65.8 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (f**king Fire Blast better hit)

EDIT: Just to clarify, I'm chosing Satk over Atk so Ttar can better deal with Team 1 even with a burn. Physcal Ttar would struggle against Deo-D if it gets burn for wathever reason and if facing Ferro 1vs1 there is a much higher risk of getting hit by Power Whip and losing its Talonflame counter status.

I like the idea, but there are a few things that you should notice.

1) Hidden Power Rock requires a suboptimal IV spread. More specifically, an even IV for Speed. You also can outspeed this Deo-D with a Modest nature. I think the best spread would be

EVs: 12 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 240 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 0 Atk / 30 SpD / 30 Spe

2)Why are you calcing Hidden Power Rock on a Timid Lando-I? The calc should be: 252+ SpA Tyranitar Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 156-184 (48.9 - 57.6%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO. You should also update the other calcs to include a Modest nature.

 

[G-Von]

As Jin White said, Stealth Rock is a necessity. I don't believe there are any possible nominations that can be deemed viable where SR is absent from the pokemon. It also can't be something that'll put Team 1 in the position to choose something that'll totally demolish Team 2. For example, if Tyranitar was the next selection, Azumarrill would have a field day if Zapdos is out of the mix. This seems like a very difficult pick at the moment but there has to be something that will fit nicely onto Team 2.

Ok so I'm retaking my Special Ttar idea now as a nomination.

Tyranitar @ Expert Belt
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 20 HP / 252 SpA / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock

It basically deals with Deo D, Ferro and Talonflame while nothing on Team 2 can safely switch into without risking losing 50% HP. Spd EVs are enough to outspeed Deo-D; otherwise, Modest with 184 spd for Kyurem-B and leftovers would be better. Please note that this guy is not taking hits from anything outside Talonflame as it is not a tank set, we need Dragonair for Landorus, Scizor for Kyurem B if over 50% health and Zapdos for random physical attack.

Now you may have noticed that the usual Sandstorm has been changed to Unnerve, why? well I don't want Team 2 losing more health than they should everytime they are on the field and I don't want a random Sandrush Excadril pick on Team 1 to suddenly outspeed and OHKO all our pokes. Honestly, sandstorm would only be useful for dealing with Kyurem-B 1 vs 1 as of now.

Offense
252 SpA Expert Belt Tyranitar Hidden Power Rock vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 209-247 (46 - 54.4%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Expert Belt Tyranitar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 302-360 (85.7 - 102.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO (OHKO if switches into any attack and SR before Fire Blast)
252 SpA Expert Belt Tyranitar Hidden Power Rock vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 518-610 (143.8 - 169.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Tyranitar Hidden Power Rock vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 96-114 (30 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock (on switch)

Defense
252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 20 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 87-102 (25.1 - 29.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Teravolt Kyurem-B Earth Power vs. 20 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar: 204-242 (58.9 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 20 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 228-270 (65.8 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (f**king Fire Blast better hit)

EDIT: Just to clarify, I'm chosing Satk over Atk so Ttar can better deal with Team 1 even with a burn. Physcal Ttar would struggle against Deo-D if it gets burn for wathever reason and if facing Ferro 1vs1 there is a much higher risk of getting hit by Power Whip and losing its Talonflame counter status.

EDIT: Why not use Ancient Power? It's completely legal because it gets Dark Pulse and Fire Blast through TM's and SR and AP from Tyrantrum.

 

[Lolme]

I like the idea, but there are a few things that you should notice.

1) Hidden Power Rock requires a suboptimal IV spread. More specifically, an even IV for Speed. You also can outspeed this Deo-D with a Modest nature. I think the best spread would be

EVs: 12 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 240 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 0 Atk / 30 SpD / 30 Spe

I switched to your EVs spread, it basically hits like a truck but the only relevant new calcs are against Kyurem and Lando on the switch.

2)Why are you calcing Hidden Power Rock on a Timid Lando-I? The calc should be: 252+ SpA Tyranitar Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 156-184 (48.9 - 57.6%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO. You should also update the other calcs to include a Modest nature.

I wasn't looking for the best scenario but for the worst, as Team 1 wouldn't switch Lando if they predict Dark Pulse over HP Rock/Ancient Power and nothing else really wants to switch.

I personally don't think it's a risk, but others may think otherwise.

Switched HP Rock for Ancient Power and crossing fingers for a +1 in all stats.

EDIT: As far as Megas we might have to fear, Gyarados, Charizard X, and Aerodactyl are the 3 I noticed that currently put us into a world of hurt. After a boost, at least 4 members of our team get OHKO'd and they all either already outspeed or will after a +1 boost. All three of these pokemon are weak to SR in their base forms so that makes it an even bigger priority to choose a mon with Stealth Rock this round, but it cannot be weak to either of these 3 pokemon either.

Added calcs using your black list. Azumarril and Gyarados beat this Ttar set no matter what, the rest of the guys can't switch into Ttar and have a good chances of getting OHKO after SR.

 

[G-Von]

Quick answears, will fully edit later.

I used the ps damage thingy and I can't recall if Deo D has timid for default which is why I run timid aswell, will change to your spread.

Hp rock so we dont get pp stall with ancient power, unless you guys think it's not a risk.

Scizor beats Azu and sets up, also can team 1 afford not having a spinner with talonflame and Kyurem?

I personally don't think it's a risk, but others may think otherwise. And yes, if there is a pokemon out there that beats all 6 members of Team 2, Team 1 can afford to screw over their SR weak pokemon to secure a victory if all its last pokemon needs is a free switch in.

EDIT: As far as Megas we might have to fear, Gyarados, Charizard X, and Aerodactyl are the 3 I noticed that currently put us into a world of hurt. After a boost, at least 4 members of our team get OHKO'd and they all either already outspeed or will after a +1 boost. All three of these pokemon are weak to SR in their base forms so that makes it an even bigger priority to choose a mon with Stealth Rock this round, but it cannot be weak to either of these 3 pokemon either.

 

[Jin White]

I'm seeing M-Blastoise or Healing Wish Latias as good contenders for the final Team 1 slot, but G-Von is right in saying Team 1 could easily forgo hazard removal if there's an easy win button instead. Here are some Rocks setters I've been brainstorming with the aforementioned threats in mind:

- Unaware Clefable
- Taunt Mew
- Sticky Web Shuckle
- Magic Bounce Mega Diancie

Feel free to suggest one of those guys, because my nomination this round is going to be:

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Explosion

I really don't like bulky pivot Lando-T because he's predictable & easy to wear down. It's easy to forget that this guy has a whopping 145 Base Attack that rarely gets utilized to its full potential. The idea is to get up Rocks obviously & spam U-Turn alongside Greninja & 'nape. Once Ferrothorn is out (who incidentally gets 2HKOd by LO Earthquake... holy shit) take the opportunity to Explode on anything for an absolutely absurd amount of damage & bring in the next guy for free.

252+ Atk Life Orb Landorus-T Explosion vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 420-495 (92.5 - 109%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Landorus-T Explosion vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Deoxys-D: 220-259 (72.3 - 85.1%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 200-238 (56.8 - 67.6%) -- the second EQ still kills if LO was Knock'd Off
252+ Atk Life Orb burned Landorus-T Explosion vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 278-328 (77.4 - 91.3%)
252+ Atk Life Orb burned Landorus-T Explosion vs. +1 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 186-218 (51.8 - 60.7%)

The speed is to outrun an Adamant Gyarados, which is definitely a huge threat.

Stone Edge is an option over Explosion... probably a smart option... makes for a safer answer to Talonflame (this one can't switch in to Talon), but can't threaten Deo-D in the same way. Explosion was also to one-shot opposing M-Blastoise, Intimidate Gyara, things like that.

 

[Lolme]

I'm seeing M-Blastoise or Healing Wish Latias as good contenders for the final Team 1 slot, but G-Von is right in saying Team 1 could easily forgo hazard removal if there's an easy win button instead. Here are some Rocks setters I've been brainstorming with the aforementioned threats in mind:

- Unaware Clefable
- Taunt Mew
- Sticky Web Shuckle
- Magic Bounce Mega Diancie

Feel free to suggest one of those guys, because my nomination this round is going to be:

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Explosion

I really don't like bulky pivot Lando-T because he's predictable & easy to wear down. It's easy to forget that this guy has a whopping 145 Base Attack that rarely gets utilized to its full potential. The idea is to get up Rocks obviously & spam U-Turn alongside Greninja & 'nape. Once Ferrothorn is out (who incidentally gets 2HKOd by LO Earthquake... holy shit) take the opportunity to Explode on anything for an absolutely absurd amount of damage & bring in the next guy for free.

252+ Atk Life Orb Landorus-T Explosion vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 420-495 (92.5 - 109%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Landorus-T Explosion vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Deoxys-D: 220-259 (72.3 - 85.1%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 200-238 (56.8 - 67.6%) -- the second EQ still kills if LO was Knock'd Off
252+ Atk Life Orb burned Landorus-T Explosion vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 278-328 (77.4 - 91.3%)
252+ Atk Life Orb burned Landorus-T Explosion vs. +1 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 186-218 (51.8 - 60.7%)

The speed is to outrun an Adamant Gyarados, which is definitely a huge threat.

Stone Edge is an option over Explosion... probably a smart option... makes for a safer answer to Talonflame (this one can't switch in to Talon), but can't threaten Deo-D in the same way. Explosion was also to one-shot opposing M-Blastoise, Intimidate Gyara, things like that.

Although Landorus T is generally great to get rocks on the field, I think this set is quite hard to play as Explosion is a 1 way ticket to hell and exploding on the wrong pokemon (or in a random protect from Team 1 last member) could put Team 2 in a bad situation. Also Deo D could just recover the damage, making Lando suicide attack a vain sacrifice or leaving the team open for a sweep from one of the pokemons G-Von mentioned.

Edit: Can shuckle (i've never used it) stop a sweep from Mega Gyara or Azumarril? I mean, M-Gyara would enter the field in its base form being immune to Sticky Web, then Mega evolve and set up. Could Shuckle do anything to stop it? same to Azumarril who might not be bothered by the speed drop and proceed to attack with waterfall and Aqua jet.

Clefable looks like a nice candidate IMO. Can't give any thoughts on Mew though.

 

[Random Passerby]

Would a defensive Krookodile be viable here? It provides Team 2 with Stealth Rock, Intimidate + Stone Edge hits Talonflame while STAB Knock Off is an annoyance to the opponent. Granted, it can do nothing against a Mega Gyarados, if Team 1 goes that route