Charizard X [2/3]

[Magcargo]

Subject 18 A few minor suggestions.

• There needs to be an other options section. I would put these in the Other Option section if it is created: Thunder Punch, Fire Blast, SubRoost, SubDD, Mixed Attacker, All-out-attacker Swords Dance, and Brick Break

Has great bulk and isn't 4x weak to Stealth Rock when Mega Evolved.

• This logic is somewhat flawed, as Mega Charizard X is still weak to Stealth Rock. I would simply mention the mega Charizard X has great bulk and is weak to Stealth Rock in both forms
• In the usage tips section for the DD set, I would mention that Charizard doesn't have to Mega Evolve immediately, as it can set up on many of its common counters, such as Offensive Stealth Rock Heatran, while also allowing it to setup on Fairy-types easier. I would also mention that Charizard can setup on Pokemon such as Genesect and Scizor instead of Skarmory, as Sarmory can Whirlwind Charizard X out.

- Flare Blitz will take out things like Lucario before they are able to take you out with an attack.

- Outspeed Jolly Lucario before it Mega Evolves and be able to OHKO with Flare Blitz.

• Both of these Flare Blitz mentions need to be replaced with Fire Punch, as Flare Blitz is not listed in the set at all
• In the usage tips section of the Bulky Will-o-wisp, I would mention that Mega Charizard also makes a solid check to both Scizor and Genesect; two very important threats in the metagame.
• Considering that Garchomp is not getting a Choice Scarf set approved on its analysis, I would remove the mention of it in the C&C section

I'm not QC, so none of this has to be implemented. On the side note, I was wondering if this is going to be written, as there appears to be little to no progress in that area.

 

[MagikaripIsOP]

4 hp gives you better physical and special bulk than 4 def

 

[6feetunder]

4 hp gives you better physical and special bulk than 4 def

4 HP makes your HP an even number, increasing the damage you take from SR

 

[Colonel M]

Am I the only one that thinks that Outrage should actually be before Dragon Claw? Tough Claws STAB Outrage really hurts and most Fairy-types hit Mega Charizard X for neutral damage (and usually on its more tankier Def stat). Perhaps I might be overlooking the cons a bit too much, but I legitimately fear Flare Blitz / Outrage Mega Charizard Xs a lot more than Dragon Claw variants.

 

[MilkyWay]

Am I the only one that thinks that Outrage should actually be before Dragon Claw? Tough Claws STAB Outrage really hurts and most Fairy-types hit Mega Charizard X for neutral damage (and usually on its more tankier Def stat). Perhaps I might be overlooking the cons a bit too much, but I legitimately fear Flare Blitz / Outrage Mega Charizard Xs a lot more than Dragon Claw variants.

I sort of agree with you there, actually, i think that Fire Punch and Outrage are better than Flare Blitz and Dragon Claw. A +1 Outrage can muscle through popular threats such as Tyranitar and Rotom-Wash that resist Flare Blitz. Also, Flare Blitz recoil seriously lowers Charizard's longevity, which is compounded with chip damage from setting up, making Charizard even more susceptible to priority. Outside of Togekiss, there isn't much Flare Blitz can do that Outrage or Fire Punch can't. This frees up the third moveslot for a coverage move such as Earthquake, Thunder Punch, or even Dragon Claw because Roost is no longer necessary.

 

[BurningMan]

Am I the only one that thinks that Outrage should actually be before Dragon Claw? Tough Claws STAB Outrage really hurts and most Fairy-types hit Mega Charizard X for neutral damage (and usually on its more tankier Def stat). Perhaps I might be overlooking the cons a bit too much, but I legitimately fear Flare Blitz / Outrage Mega Charizard Xs a lot more than Dragon Claw variants.

All OU worthy fairies are outside of azumarrill and Mawile are actually special however since your are neutral to everything they throw at you it doesn't matters much, the big problem about Outrage is being locked into a move that Pokemon are immune to. I agree that Outrage/Fire Punch is potentially the most dangerous combination, but using Outrage against a team with a Fairy is even more suicidal than the Flare Blitz recoil and since a lot of teams carry a fairy Dragon Claw+Flare Blitz is usually the most reliable combination.

Honestly i don't think there is too much difference between the two and its mostly up to preference, Outrage/Fire Punch will be more threatening against some teams and Flareblitz/DClaw will be better against some others and then there is Outrage/Flareblitz which also works. I think the Bullet Points explain what advantages the moves have although some key threats that the specific moves allow you to KO like TTar/Rotom-W should be mentioned in the final write-up.

 

[Jukain]

after treecko brought up double dance, i decided to test it out. it is so good. sd gives you huge immediate power, whereas dd lets you speed boost if needed. what's neat is if you need the power, and then need the speed, or vice versa, you can just use the other move as appropriate. sd makes zard x such a threat, and is something few players prepare for. slash it in the last slot.

this set can get away with fire punch way more easily, too. just worth a note.

 

[Subject 18]

I'll give double dance a try. I want to test it for myself before I add it in.

 

[BKC]

mention earthquake and dragon tail on the wisp set. honestly i think eq is better than fire punch overall but fp works i suppose. everything else looks fine since you said on irc you'd add in sd.

qc approved 3/3

 

[Nix_Hex]

Please address these posts regarding removing Ferrothorn and Skarmory. I know that alexwolf said not to mention them, and I don't mean to step on QC's toes but I'm afraid I'm going to insist that you at least give the massive recoil you're taking to kill those walls (one that survives with Sturdy and phazes you, the other that gives you even worse recoil thanks to Iron Barbs) on the DD set. You don't need to go into great detail but the reader must be aware of situations that will severely limit CharX's sweep. Do this and of course BKC's check and it'll be ready to go.

 

[Jukain]

this is why fire punch is very good...you just pick fire punch if you don't want recoil

 

[Nix_Hex]

Then that must be stated explicitly, especially since the two are slashed with each other. Real game situations with the DD set don't afford you the luxury to "pick" whether or not you want recoil. That's one of the many factors that goes into deciding which move you prefer on the set before you build it.

 

[BKC]

why are you mini modding
bkc edit; this was aimed at a deleted post so plz refrain from killing me nix

(once he does those things it can be considered approved)

Fuzznip edit: he has to write it first dawg
Nix edit: I can see the deleted post cause I'm a modicator. Love you my long time chum.

 

[Johny Cid]

I have been toying with a DDer Charizard X lately, so I'll just give my 2 cents, whatever they're worth... On the 2 move combination, Flare Blitz/Dragon Claw is much better, from my experience, than Fire Punch/Outrage, mainly because you can actually break walls with Flare Blitz, while if you want to break walls with Outrage, you get yourself locked and Fire Punch won't be breaking any walls for you. On the nature, I think Jolly should be slashed first, because being outsped at +1 by the omnipresent Scarf Landorus-T is enough to keep your sweep in check for an entire game. Also, setting up on SD Excadrill (without evolving) is very nice. What is also interesting is that unless you have another SR weak mon in your team, Roost gives you very little reason to waste both a team slot and a move slot with Rapid Spin/Defog... seriously, I think Roost may be underrated, because there are so many things that think they can revenge a weakened Zard with Sucker Punch only to find out they just got swept, mainly Bisharp.

 

[Exclaimer]

Since Genesect+Lucarionite is banned, shouldn't you remove the mentions in the main thread about them?

 

[Subject 18]

Since Genesect+Lucarionite is banned, shouldn't you remove the mentions in the main thread about them?

Done.


NixHex, I explained the differences with Fire Punch and Flare Blitz.

mention earthquake and dragon tail on the wisp set. honestly i think eq is better than fire punch overall but fp works i suppose. everything else looks fine since you said on irc you'd add in sd.

qc approved 3/3

Added Earthquake and Dragon Tail. and Slashed Sword Dance with Roost on the DD set. I might need a bulkier spread for the double Dance option though. If anyone has a one let me know.


I'll start writing it up soon, if everything looks good to everyone.

 

[Sturdynips]

If i'm missing something here, let me know, but the first set looks really cluttered the way it is slashed and in my mind it is pretty much two sets in one; SD and DD. I understand the value of double dance, but maybe a separate SD set could be added, keeping the first set as just dragon dance but with SD mentioned in moves with a solid description of the benefits double dance brings. In my opinion, SD and DD play quite differently on most Pokemon; Haxorus last gen was a good example of this.

Also, there is no OO section at the moment so probably add that in n_n

 

[BurningMan]

Slashed Sword Dance with Roost on the DD set. I might need a bulkier spread for the double Dance option though. If anyone has a one let me know.

I don't think a bulkier spread would be that good for double dance (maybe for a set with only SD) if you take EVs out of Atk you start losing OHKOs or chances to get them against some of the things you use SD for and taking them out of Spe is also not a great idea, because you can't take out enough to get some noticable bulk without losing too much speed.

Honestly Double Dance was really suicidal when i played it and i nver felt that more bulk would be necessary or especially helpful.

I also support Sturdynips suggestion of including a SD set and just slash Dragon Dance with Roost there.

 

[Martin]

just a knitpick (not based around your work, but questioning how this is all being formatted), but shouldn't this be in Charizard as Mega Charizard X is only available through mega evolution, and as such is only obtainable in battle?

 

[Shiruba]

There was already a discussion based on this, and it was deemed that the Pokemon were distinct enough to receive separate analyses.

 

[PurpleCordial]

You still mention MLuke (and the 76 should be a 176)

"- 76 Spd with a Jolly Nature will outspeed Jolly Lucario before it Mega Evolves and be able to OHKO it with a Fire Punch."

also should the Bulky W-o-W set be re-ev'd now that lucario wont be so prevalent or is the benchmark still good enough

 

[BurningMan]

How about 160 Spe EVs to beat Jolly Excadrill? Seems like the most important/common target at that region in the speed tiers.

 

[Subject 18]

Moved SD to OO and changed the EV spread on the Bulky WoW set. Anything else I missed?

 

[PurpleCordial]

"- Can run a pure offensive set and a Bulkier Dragon Dance set." Bulky DD is only mentioned in Overview while bulky wow/pivot has a set

"- Item turns Charizard into Mega Charizard X." is that even needed on a Char-X analysis page?

You also mention "Generally you should try to set up on something like Skarmory" on the DD set while saying Skarm is a common switch in in the bulky wow set "Will-o-Wisp will burn common switch ins like Azumarill, Skarmory..."

OO: "Swords Dance is a nifty option for this set" > Swords Dance is a nifty option on the DD set

/Not qc just my opinion

 

[Subject 18]

All valid, fixed.