Metagame Automagic

[EV]

Who wants to take this over?

 

[dhelmise]

Me

 

[GamerOGuy]

Combusken @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide / Fire Punch / filler
- Power-Up Punch
- Swords Dance
- Agility

Getting +3 speed and attack every turn is nothing to scoff at. Combusken may be weak on its own, but after +3, it destroys a lot of things (bar unaware Clefable and Quagsire). Definitely a great mid- or late-game sweeper.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

I discovered a bug, not sure if this has been reported but, Clangorous Soulblaze doesn't trigger other boosting moves. It should, as the +1 to all stats is a secondary effect of the move and Genesis Supernova triggers your boosting moves. I tried testing it in AAA by giving Kommo-O Sheer Force, and that negated the stat boosts, so it is a secondary effect.

Replays:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7almostanyability-353444 - Sheer Force negates Clangorous Soulblaze's boosts
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7automagic-353446 - Clangorous Soulblaze doesn't trigger Swords Dance and Bulk Up.

 

[urkerab]

I discovered a bug, not sure if this has been reported but, Clangorous Soulblaze doesn't trigger other boosting moves. It should, as the +1 to all stats is a secondary effect of the move and Genesis Supernova triggers your boosting moves. I tried testing it in AAA by giving Kommo-O Sheer Force, and that negated the stat boosts, so it is a secondary effect.

I am not actually sure what should happen to Clangorous Soulblaze if Kommo-O has Sheer Force, so it's possible that ROM's negation of the stat boosts is an incorrect side-effect of a local code change. Even on main I think Clangorous Soulblaze's interaction with Sheer Force is special-cased.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

I am not actually sure what should happen to Clangorous Soulblaze if Kommo-O has Sheer Force, so it's possible that ROM's negation of the stat boosts is an incorrect side-effect of a local code change. Even on main I think Clangorous Soulblaze's interaction with Sheer Force is special-cased.

I tested it on the main server, Sheer Force negated the stat boosts there as well.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7almostanyability-780913879

 

[urkerab]

I tested it on the main server, Sheer Force negated the stat boosts there as well.

I double-checked and it is special-cased; the boosts aren't normal secondary effects.
https://github.com/Zarel/Pokemon-Sh...ce516a40447e3ec3ae70b/data/abilities.js#L2950

                // Technically not a secondary effect, but it is negated

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I double-checked and it is special-cased; the boosts aren't normal secondary effects.
https://github.com/Zarel/Pokemon-Sh...ce516a40447e3ec3ae70b/data/abilities.js#L2950

                // Technically not a secondary effect, but it is negated

So what you're saying is that ingame, Sheer Force negates the boosts, but doesn't increase the power? Sheer Force is wack.

 

[urkerab]

So what you're saying is that ingame, Sheer Force negates the boosts, but doesn't increase the power?

No, I'm saying the boosts aren't secondary effects, but Sheer Force applies anyway.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

No, I'm saying the boosts aren't secondary effects, but Sheer Force applies anyway.

That's even more wack.

 

[Marty]

Re: the above, if it were a normal secondary effect it could activate multiple times against multiple targets, like Diamond Storm does. For some reason, in Gen 7 Game Freak started hardcoding Sheer Force interactions with moves that don't have % chances to happen in their data. More details found here: https://github.com/Zarel/Pokemon-Showdown/issues/3339

Clangorous Soulblaze is more like Clanging Scales and Overheat than Diamond Storm, which logically is how it was implemented until I tested it with Sheer Force shortly into USUM since I expect nonsense from them now.

 

[Akumeoy]

Blacephalon @ Ghostinium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- Flame Charge
- Calm Mind

what do you mean blacephalon doesn't get quiver dance. anyways any move --> never-ending nightmare beats unaware clef and it's immune to fake out. seems legit to me

 

[Esprite]

I think Blacephalon's a bit too much of a sitting duck with that set. It's using its lesser attack stat for a 50 BP move and doesn't get any less vulnerable to a simple Earthquake.

Now, for a truly crazy setup sweeper, how about +3/+3 in a single turn without being Combusken? Feraligatr gets Swords Dance Dragon Dance and Agility with Bulldoze as a handy trigger that also just ices the speed difference. Who needs coverage?

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I think Blacephalon's a bit too much of a sitting duck with that set. It's using its lesser attack stat for a 50 BP move and doesn't get any less vulnerable to a simple Earthquake.

Now, for a truly crazy setup sweeper, how about +3/+3 in a single turn without being Combusken? Feraligatr gets Swords Dance Dragon Dance and Agility with Bulldoze as a handy trigger that also just ices the speed difference. Who needs coverage?

First of all, Blace's attack stat is 127. Sure, it's "lesser", but it's still super high. And absolutely nothing is going to help Blace survive an Earthquake, so I don't know what you were expecting.

Second of all, you realize that your Feraligatr set is completely walled by Flying types? I'd call that a good reason for coverage. Plus, if you're using Sheer Force, Bulldoze doesn't even lower speed, and if you're running Torrent, it's a completely useless ability because you don't have any Water moves.

 

[Esprite]

Pumpkinz, the Feraligatr's a meme set. I'm well aware of its flaws XD

And while I'll concede that 127 attack isn't abysmal, it's still not doing that much damage with a 50 BP move. And yeah I went for the extreme with Earthquake, but really any physical attacker in this will kill it without issue, especially if they boost their speed/drop blace's instead. Even specially Blace will still be vulnerable thanks to that HP stat. And you definitely wouldn't want to be outsped.

 

[Akumeoy]

It might surprise you to learn that mons without much bulk can still find setup opportunities. Before it got banned, Pheromosa had a devastating Quiver Dance set despite being perhaps the most fragile sweeper to ever grace OU.

Blace can run Sub-Calm Mind in standard, and this set trades the ability to avoid Toxic for extra Speed boosts. That seems pretty reasonable to me.