Other 6th Gen Pokemon UU Candidate Speculation Thread

[noknuckles]

I'm finding Haxorus to be really tough to set up. It's like a less ridiculously dangerous UU version of MLucario, where if you give it ONE turn it can usually just auto-win, but setting up often means you lose a chunk of health. I guess it's different in the sense that even once it sets up, scarfers and priority can still take it out (and its move set is also pretty predictable, that's a big thing too)

Or maybe it just seems difficult because I'm using 3 dragons on my team and everyone is just Outrage happy when they see my team.

It just feels so weird that Haxorus is the 4th best dragon (5th best if we count Kingdra+Politoed) in a tier that used to be dominated by Heracross and Chandelure.

 

[koista12]

Yeah I think having 3 dragons on your team might be the cause of your problems, though you could always put a fairy somewhere on your team.

And wow I just played UU, it's really like last gen OU. I think I'll be playing RU this gen.

 

[rachet67]

smeargle is OU because shiny new sticky web, nothing more.

Smeargle's just an example. I was more concerned about the usage statistics in OU over-representing pokemon generally used by lower ladder players.

 

[vonK]

Where can I find a list of what is currently banned in UU?

 

[Squishyfrog]

Where can I find a list of what is currently banned in UU?

You can find the current banlist here, but I'll post it here for your convenience:

UU Banlist:
Aegislash, Alakazam, Azumarill, Blissey, Breloom, Charizard, Clefable, Cloyster, Conkeldurr, Donphan, Dragonite, Espeon, Excadrill, Ferrothorn, Forretress, Galvantula, Garchomp, Genesect, Gengar, Gliscor, Goodra, Greninja, Gyarados, Heatran, Infernape, Jirachi, Kangaskhan, Klefki, Landorus, Landorus-Therian, Latios, Lucario, Mamoswine, Mandibuzz, Mawile, Pinsir, Rotom-Wash, Sableye, Salamence, Scizor, Skarmory, Smeargle, Starmie, Sylveon, Talonflame, Tentacruel, Terrakion, Thundurus, Togekiss, Trevenant, Tyranitar, Venusaur, Volcarona

 

[Sevon]

UU is terrible at the moment in my opinion :( Last gen UU was one of my favourites but this gen I think I'll stick to the lower tiers.. Keldeo, Lati@s and Kyurem-B in UU? No thanks haha :)

 

[TheMohZone]

UU is terrible at the moment in my opinion :( Last gen UU was one of my favourites but this gen I think I'll stick to the lower tiers.. Keldeo, Lati@s and Kyurem-B in UU? No thanks haha :)

Actually its only Latias in UU. still Keldeo and Kyube run the tier, it is NOT fun. i think Kyube will crawl back up to OU in a couple of months but Keldeo will be a problem for the foreseeable future.

 

[Sevon]

Actually its only Latias in UU. still Keldeo and Kyube run the tier, it is NOT fun. i think Kyube will crawl back up to OU in a couple of months but Keldeo will be a problem for the foreseeable future.

Oh just saw that haha, well there's enough annoying stuff going on in the UU tier atm.. (Chansey..:D)

 

[TheMohZone]

Oh just saw that haha, well there's enough annoying stuff going on in the UU tier atm.. (Chansey..:D)

look on the bright side

at least Bliss didn't fall.

actually in a meta where Kyube exists (And when Kyube inevitably leaves, Haxorus) the blobs won't suck as much.

 

[noknuckles]

Yeah I think having 3 dragons on your team might be the cause of your problems, though you could always put a fairy somewhere on your team.

And wow I just played UU, it's really like last gen OU. I think I'll be playing RU this gen.

I could listen to your logically sound advice of adding another switch-in to Outrage. OR I could just add a 4th dragon. I think that's what I'll do to address my dragon weakness. Afterall, dragon IS strong against dragon

 

[CQC]

And wow I just played UU, it's really like last gen OU. I think I'll be playing RU this gen.

Well, of course it is at the beginning, since new mons who SHOULD be UU are used more due to novelty, while quite a few old mons who got somewhat weaker but still SHOULD be OU are used less because everyone is bored with them. So, a lot of last-gen OU mons end up in UU. The question is, how many will stay there?

 

[koista12]

Noknuckles, I hope you have a Choice Scarfed dragon then.

 

[GoliathGarchomp]

Actually its only Latias in UU. still Keldeo and Kyube run the tier, it is NOT fun. i think Kyube will crawl back up to OU in a couple of months but Keldeo will be a problem for the foreseeable future.

By saying 'Keldeo a problem for the foreseeable future' do you mean its going to stay UU? Because at least imo that has little chance of happening. Keldeo is still a great Pokémon and it get plenty of usage in OU where I am on the ladder (2000+). In fact Kyube probably has more chance of staying especially now it's role isn't as unique as last gen since MChomp exist.

 

[TheMohZone]

By saying 'Keldeo a problem for the foreseeable future' do you mean its going to stay UU? Because at least imo that has little chance of happening. Keldeo is still a great Pokémon and it get plenty of usage in OU where I am on the ladder (2000+). In fact Kyube probably has more chance of staying especially now it's role isn't as unique as last gen since MChomp exist.

As long as Talonflame exists, I don't see Keldeo getting back into OU, at least for a while. When most of the top used OU pokes eat it for breakfest (a meta ran by Rotom W is his worst nightmare, then Talonflame happened.) It's going to struggle. It's also faced with a significant power decreas without permarain and the special nerf. It's like Jirachi or Celebi. It has the tls to succeed, but not the conditions.

Kyube on the other hand is often better than megachomp as it doesn't take the megaslot. i Also has a niche as one of few pokes who can beat megasaur. Although chomps coverage is superior, that's all it has, kyube i. a superior wall breaker, the Bain of stall.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

In response to the dragon argument, I ran a monodragon team in OU and got up to the 2100s before leveling out. Since there are a lot of really OP dragons in UU right now, I don't see why having several dragons wouldn't work in UU

 

[AOPSUser]

I noticed many people in this thread talking about the current UU metagame. Well, there is already a thread for that over at OM. Rather, I think the good discussions are about what we expect from UU in the future. We know what Kyurem-B does, and it's not staying in UU anytime soon. We've been through Thundurus-T. But once everything calms down, what will we have? That's what speculation we have right now.

Personally, I think UU will not be dominated by Dragons, or even Rain. Be realistic, how long is Kyurem-B or Manaphy staying down? Sun might have a chance at being dominant with all the Fire-types in the tier. Incidentally, this will make Defoggers like Crobat, Gligar, and Empoleon really popular. You have Haxorus, possibly Noivern, and Flygon potentially staying, but there might not be that "throw 4 Dragons on a team" mentality.

Also, if Magnezone drops, I'd hate to see what would happen. 4Drag2Mag, UU version? I hope not.

Also Kyurem-B is a way better mixed attacker than Mega Garchomp, and it will definitely be going right back to OU.

I'm interested in what happens when the meta settles down. Not in what Kyurem-B, Latias, and Manaphy can do. Blah, blah, blah, been there, done that.

 

[GoliathGarchomp]

As long as Talonflame exists, I don't see Keldeo getting back into OU, at least for a while. When most of the top used OU pokes eat it for breakfest (a meta ran by Rotom W is his worst nightmare, then Talonflame happened.) It's going to struggle. It's also faced with a significant power decreas without permarain and the special nerf. It's like Jirachi or Celebi. It has the tls to succeed, but not the conditions.

Kyube on the other hand is often better than megachomp as it doesn't take the megaslot. i Also has a niche as one of few pokes who can beat megasaur. Although chomps coverage is superior, that's all it has, kyube i. a superior wall breaker, the Bain of stall.

Talonflame and Rotom-W aren't the biggest of Keldeo's worries. Talonflame is limited to revenge killing Keldeo only a it sure as hell isn't switching into Keldeo. That basically gives me a free switch into my Talonflame counter which usually means a free turn to set up SR or allows me to grab momentum via Rotoms Volt switch. Speaking of Rotom the physically defensive set which most of them are these days hate switching into Keldeo.
If its Resto Chesto
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 126-149 (41.4 - 49%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
If it carries Lefties
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 126-149 (41.4 - 49%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

The weather nerf did hurt Keldeo but its not like Rain is not viable anymore, just takes more skill to use. Also please don't forget how well Ttar and Keldeo work together. Ttar Pursuit traps many of Keldeo's counters. The biggest problem Keldeo faces this gen is the fact that MVenusaur hard counter it and gives MSaur a free turn.

Basically I really don't see how Keldeo will be anything lower than OU this gen when its still a great Pokémon to use in the tier.

 

[Jexulus]

What's kept my interest as I've waited for an official UU tier to happen was the amount of Pokemon that got stat modifications. And, oddly enough, Raichu's speed increase has piqued my interest enough for me to build a set for him. And it's pretty weird, but it's done wonders for me so far.

Raichu (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Lightningrod
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Volt Tackle
- Knock Off
- Iron Tail
- Brick Break

Now, before you write me off, consider the circumstances of UU environment (this also me saying that this wouldn't work in OU at all):

- With a Jolly nature, Raichu naturally outspeeds almost every unboosted Pokemon in UU, with the exceptions of Weavile, Tornadus, Raikou, Azelf, and Ambipom (that I'm aware of).

- There are almost no Megas in UU with the exception of a select few, which means Knock Off, though non-STAB, will neuter a non-resist one way or another, be it killing a frail Pokemon outright, or taking a bulky Poke's leftovers or Assault Vest.

However, that brings up the question of why I would even want to run Raichu over Weavile and Ambipom, who wield STAB Knock-Off and Technician, respectively. I can think of a few. For one, Raichu has a useful switch-in opportunity with Lightningrod and the Electric immunity it brings. Not only are Electric attacks more easily baited out than Psychic and Ghost attacks, but Raichu's stats and move pool are wide enough that the opponent has a harder time figuring out Raichu's set, much less predicting which Pokemon to switch into. Out of the three, only Raichu has a STAB "panic button" as powerful and reliable as his signature Volt Tackle. Yes, the recoil bites, but staying alive is low on Raichu's to-do list anyway. Also, Raichu is not Stealth Rock weak, unlike Weavile. As for the remaining moves, Brick Break and Iron Tail are for specific threats, such as Bisharp and Whimsicott respectively.

I don't think this set in particular will catch on, but I hope this invokes another point of discussion: does Knock Off's buff and Raichu's speed buff warrant him a niche in the UU metagame, or do Ambipom and Weavile hold too much over Raichu and keep it out of UU?

 

[AOPSUser]

What's kept my interest as I've waited for an official UU tier to happen was the amount of Pokemon that got stat modifications. And, oddly enough, Raichu's speed increase has piqued my interest enough for me to build a set for him. And it's pretty weird, but it's done wonders for me so far.

Raichu (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Lightningrod
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Volt Tackle
- Knock Off
- Iron Tail
- Brick Break

Now, before you write me off, consider the circumstances of UU environment (this also me saying that this wouldn't work in OU at all):

- With a Jolly nature, Raichu naturally outspeeds almost every unboosted Pokemon in UU, with the exceptions of Weavile, Tornadus, Raikou, Azelf, and Ambipom (that I'm aware of).

- There are almost no Megas in UU with the exception of a select few, which means Knock Off, though non-STAB, will neuter a non-resist one way or another, be it killing a frail Pokemon outright, or taking a bulky Poke's leftovers or Assault Vest.

However, that brings up the question of why I would even want to run Raichu over Weavile and Ambipom, who wield STAB Knock-Off and Technician, respectively. I can think of a few. For one, Raichu has a useful switch-in opportunity with Lightningrod and the Electric immunity it brings. Not only are Electric attacks more easily baited out than Psychic and Ghost attacks, but Raichu's stats and move pool are wide enough that the opponent has a harder time figuring out Raichu's set, much less predicting which Pokemon to switch into. Out of the three, only Raichu has a STAB "panic button" as powerful and reliable as his signature Volt Tackle. Yes, the recoil bites, but staying alive is low on Raichu's to-do list anyway. Also, Raichu is not Stealth Rock weak, unlike Weavile. As for the remaining moves, Brick Break and Iron Tail are for specific threats, such as Bisharp and Whimsicott respectively.

I don't think this set in particular will catch on, but I hope this invokes another point of discussion: does Knock Off's buff and Raichu's speed buff warrant him a niche in the UU metagame, or do Ambipom and Weavile hold too much over Raichu and keep it out of UU?

In last Gen's UU Ambipom was a joke, much like Dusclops. Weavile doesn't have powerful STAB like Volt Tackle, it has no switch-in opportunities, and generally it runs Life Orb, although people do run Band. Whether Raichu could actually be good is another question, but it's a nice niche for it.

In general, Weavile is better for spreading Knock Off due to its power, STAB, and speed. Raichu could find some use, but it's quite niche. Other users, like Bisharp and Mandibuzz, if they don't end up OU, also are good at spreading Knock Off. Shuckle, Tangrowth, and Tentacruel can do so too. Raichu is kind of a middle between Weavile and Tangrowth--it has switch-in opportunities, and it wields more power than Tangrowth.

 

[Jexulus]

In last Gen's UU Ambipom was a joke, much like Dusclops. Weavile doesn't have powerful STAB like Volt Tackle, it has no switch-in opportunities, and generally it runs Life Orb, although people do run Band. Whether Raichu could actually be good is another question, but it's a nice niche for it.

In general, Weavile is better for spreading Knock Off due to its power, STAB, and speed. Raichu could find some use, but it's quite niche. Other users, like Bisharp and Mandibuzz, if they don't end up OU, also are good at spreading Knock Off. Shuckle, Tangrowth, and Tentacruel can do so too. Raichu is kind of a middle between Weavile and Tangrowth--it has switch-in opportunities, and it wields more power than Tangrowth.

To be fair, what Ambipom lost in Low Kick, he gained in Power-Up Punch. The Technician boost to it may make him somewhat viable again, even though he can't stay in to use the boost that often.

But back to Raichu, he has an advantage over the mentioned Pokemon in that he's fast and can actually kill with Knock Off. And even if he doesn't, he can still remove an Eviolite or two before he goes down. What separates him from Weavile is that lovely Volt Tackle of his.

 

[rachet67]

As long as Talonflame exists, I don't see Keldeo getting back into OU, at least for a while. When most of the top used OU pokes eat it for breakfest (a meta ran by Rotom W is his worst nightmare, then Talonflame happened.) It's going to struggle. It's also faced with a significant power decreas without permarain and the special nerf. It's like Jirachi or Celebi. It has the tls to succeed, but not the conditions.

The weather nerf actually only really hurt its scarf set. Specs Keldeo, the most common threat, actually performed just as well, if not better on sandstorm teams, not because sandstorm helped it, but because tyranitar can pursuit trap most of its counters. This still remains true. Choice band Tyranitar can switch into Talonflame with ease and OHKO w/ pursuit. Talonflame is a check and can't take anything from keldeo on the switch. Keldeo's hard counters have actually decreased because rain was nerfed. Jirachi, jellicent, and latias, the pokemon that gave keldeo trouble last gen are now not nearly as common. Specs keldeo was mostly used on sand teams anyway last gen, and still hits like a truck. Keldeo is currently A rank (Mega Venesaur is the only reason its not S again) on the OU viability thread, and once the meta settles there's no way its not going back to OU.

 

[koista12]

Ambipom may not seem that great, but he's one of the reasons people had to carry a normal resist in UU. I've built teams without a Normal resist and have been swept by Ambipom.

Weavile is a lot better this gen, with the buff to the Dark type. Weavile doesn't care about gaining a new weakness, it can't take a neutral STAB hit to save its life, and it gained Icicle crash. The defog buff helps a lot, so Banded Weavile might become more common.

 

[FlyThai]

Bisharp isnt OU? Oh hell yeah, i have been sweeping OU teams with him, he's going to crush souls in UU.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

So, I finally got around to doing some real testing in UU, and so far, I love how viable stall is, especially compared to OU. And I only see it getting better as the broken pokes get the boot.

 

[Rennyjesus]

I just haven't seen which pokes are really UU and which are banned to OU... U_U

Can Somebody tell me where i can find that info? :3