Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V2 - Check Post #2500 PG. 100

[MANNAT]

Thanks to Pressure Kyurem can PP stall common 8 PP moves thrown at it such as Gyro Ball, Close Combat and Stone Edge, something Kyu-B can't do. It also has slightly higher SpA and SubRoost sets usually run Ice Beam+Earth Power so Kyu-B's higher attack stat is irrelevant.
It should be noted that even though Kyu-B's Teravolt gives it better coverage with IB+EP against the likes of Rotom-W and Bronzong, in practice Kyurem still wins by PP stalling since they lack reliable recovery moves.

Thanks for the clarification guys!

 

[Tressed]

mega zam has a much less exasperated case of mega latios syndrome. it is better as a pokemon, but the opportunity cost to doing so is high. unlike latios, alakazam kinda sucks in ou, but m-zam, while very good, takes up your mega slot. this makes it a poor option on most teams. hence why it doesnt sit above a-. tbh id support a drop to b+ personally, but im not going to go into detail as i dont care that much either way.

This isn't true at all. The issue with Mega Latios is that it's not that much better than regular Latios, at least not enough to justify using it as your Mega slot. It fails to accomplish anything that regular Latios wouldn't be able to do, hence it's low ranking. Mega Alakazam is a fantastic revenge killer and late game cleaner, and while it does face competition for the mega slot, it's actually a very viable Mega Pokemon and makes for a strong contender. Moreover, there are only a few mons that actually contest Mega Alakazam's role, and none that fill it to the extent that Latios fills Mega Latios' role.

edit: gg theurbandear XD

 

[urban]

mega zam has a much less exasperated case of mega latios syndrome. it is better as a pokemon, but the opportunity cost to doing so is high. unlike latios, alakazam kinda sucks in ou, but m-zam, while very good, takes up your mega slot. this makes it a poor option on most teams. hence why it doesnt sit above a-. tbh id support a drop to b+ personally, but im not going to go into detail as i dont care that much either way.

The problem with this comparison is that M-Latios doesn't offer much of anything over Life Orb Latios. M-Alakazam has some pretty unique benefits over regular Alakazam - a blazing speed tier that outspeeds threats like M-Lop and M-Manectric, a special attack stat that doesn't really need the life orb boost, and an entirely different ability that can help it in a lot of scenarios. The competition for the mega slot argument seems a bit shaky too because there aren't really any other megas who can do what M-Zam does.

That being said, M-Zam's frailty and reliance on the shaky accuracy of focus blast hold it back to some degree. I think A- is a good place for M-Zam, but I wouldn't be too opposed to it moving up to A because it can perform well against a variety of playstyles. I think B+ is definitely underselling it while A+ is overselling it somewhat.

Edit: got ninja'd. gg Tressed.

 

[BlueLobster]

Seconding Mega Glalie to Unranked.

After all, M Glalie is a mediocre pokemon, with average speed and poor defenses, it's only use is an ice wallbreaker with good STAB. However, it takes up your mega slot and often has to explode or just be sacced due to it's mediocre speed and defenses. Dying is not a good niche for a mega in this meta, all Glalie is is an oppertunity cost which just dies while taking out between 0-2 pokes (any more and your opp sucks). If exploding is a niche on something that doesn't have access to SR, something is badly worng tbh

Edit for below: Isn't Froslass superior as a spikes suicide lead due to higher speed, taunt, ability to go sashed and ability to use a mega in the same team? Destiny Bond can cause the same double downs in most situations, and can also beat some mons Glalie outpseeds due to faster speed. It's explosion may have what's basically unrivaled power, but it still has no real niche.

 

[QueenOfHax]

Mega Glalie does have access to Spikes, so it can still be used as a suicide Spikes setter. Refrigerate-boosted Explosion is still extremely powerful and it's enough of a niche to keep it ranked.

 

[heritage]

Mega Glalie is literal garbage and shouldn't ever be used on a serious team. Suicide Spikes certainly isn't enough to save it, especially considering that you have to sacrifice your Mega Slot for it. Azelf is a very similar Pokemon that not only has Stealth Rock and dual screens, but can also Explode and has Fire Blast to deal with Ferrothorn and Skarmory. Glalie's weakness to Stealth Rock and terrible defensive typing is extremely detrimental and lowers its time on the field even more. People say that it has priority, but Ice Shard coming off of 120 base Attack with zero way of raising that stat isn't going to hurt that much anyways. Just because it has Refrigerate Explosion doesn't mean it's actually worth using in the long run. It's got mediocre attacking stats, mediocre Speed, lacking defenses and a terrible defensive typing. There's literally nothing that you should be using for other than Explosion which isn't a reason to use it. Mega Glalie should be Unranked.

Short edit @ below: Lol there are so many more things that can absolutely destroy stall as well that are much, MUCH better choices than Glalie. If you run Freeze Dry, you have no room for Ice Shard. Double Edge makes you take massive recoil as well. None of these things are a valid enough niche to keep it ranked.

 

[Invok3r]

Mega Glalie is literal garbage and shouldn't ever be used on a serious team. Suicide Spikes certainly isn't enough to save it, especially considering that you have to sacrifice your Mega Slot for it. Azelf is a very similar Pokemon that not only has Stealth Rock and dual screens, but can also Explode and has Fire Blast to deal with Ferrothorn and Skarmory. Glalie's weakness to Stealth Rock and terrible defensive typing is extremely detrimental and lowers it's time on the field even more. People say that it has priority, but Ice Shard coming off of 120 base Attack with zero way of raising that stat isn't going to hurt that much anyways. Just because it has Refrigerate Explosion doesn't mean it's actually worth using in the long run. It's got mediocre attacking stats, mediocre Speed, lacking defenses and a terrible defensive typing. There's literally nothing that you should be using for other than Explosion which isn't a reason to use it. Mega Glalie should be Unranked.

I think you're really underselling mega glalie tbh. You said that azelf has explosion and fire blast which help it deal with ferrothorn and skarm. Double-edge glalie has a good chance to 2hko ferrothorn and skarmory after rocks, so those two certainly don't wall it. It can also run freeze-dry to 2hko rotom-w and slowbro without any special atttack investment. Although it has low bulk and a bad speed for a frail sweeper in oras, it has some amazing wallbreaking power which gives it a niche in ou.

(It also completely destroys cleaner's stall, which is pretty fuckin awesome.)

 

[pika pal]

I could get behind the idea of Mega Zam moving up to A, albeit as one of the lesser A ranks. The most immediate, albeit probably not the most fitting comparisons I can make are to Mega Manectric (as a fast, coverage backed Special Attacker) and Zard-Y (Powerful Specially oriented Wallbreaker). Manectric boasts Intimidate and access to Volt Switch, making it hard to defeat since it pivots out of unfavorable match ups while being able to blunt attackers. Zard-Y has fairly good coverage for a wallbreaker, and absurd power behind its Fire Blast under Sun, with even some common resist heavily dented on the switch
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Latias in Sun: 126-148 (39.4 - 46.3%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

That said, Alakazam has some noticeable advantages over the two.
- A useful speed tier even Pre-Mega. Base 120 is faster than a good deal of the Metagame even before Zam hits the 150 for outpacing slower Scarfs. This means that against offense, Alakazam is less pressured to find a "safe" Mega turn, where many other Megas have a risky turn with their pre-Mega speed, which can cost them match-ups they'd win if already evolved (such as Diancie). Zam has mons like this too, such as Mega Lopunny, but these mons need to already be in, since they can't stomach a switch hit and won't often outspeed afterwards.

Alakazam's speed is what really makes him. Trace wouldn't always be a particularly great ability vs Offense because most users of the ability are slow enough to be Revenge Killed by a faster mon before netting more than one kill. Zam outspeeds every user of the abilities he'd like to steal, from Sheer Force to Adaptability. This has an indirect advantage as well: the opponent has to moderate their use of Ability dependent attackers, because if Alakazam comes in for the revenge, stomaching a Base 175 Sp Attack backed by that ability could be game right there barring priority, which Zam can still mitigate if it predicts a switch or disrupting attempt and runs Substitute. Alakazam's power is also fairly high, and he can put Trace to use against balance and Stall as well, snatching abilities like Diancie's Magic Bounce or Heatran's Flash Fire, not to mention having set variations such as CM or even Lure sets (I've seen Knock Off carried to get the 2HKO on Eviolite-less Chansey).

Maybe I'm overselling it admittedly, but Alakazam is an interesting mon in that he can be played relatively the same and put in a similar amount of work against about every playstyle: Tracing to Revenge Weather Sweepers, dismantling Balance and Stall Cores with high power and coverage, outspeeding and smacking many offensive threats, all while Trace lets him play with the opponent's own toys. The only other Mons that stick out as doing that to me are Metagross and Gengar: Most others either need to run a different set (Talonflame, Keldeo, Altaria) to cover a different playstyle, or simply do not fare as well against one over the other (Landorus-T v Stall). Plenty of mons match up better against respective playstyles, but Alakazam is proficient enough with one set that he doesn't make you weaker against one playstyle to the point of trying to amend it actively in another teamslot. Alakazam isn't the MOST splashable, but at the same time it's a mon that doesn't have to be built around or tailored too specifically to do its job.

 

[Darth Darkrai]

Thank you friend that point has been made a couple of times already. I have also already said that im sorry if my post offended people. I will keep my thoughts and opinions private until people consider me more qualified to post them on the forum

I don't think anyone was offended by them (and if anyone was offended by the mere mention of Qwilfish in OU, you really need to get a grip people). But yeah, Qwilfish is not good in OU. And you can post on the forums as much as you like. You can even give opinions on nominations people have made on this thread, based on your experiences playing. I just wouldn't recommend actually making any more noms until you're a bit more experienced.

I am aware that you say that you are new to the OU meta, but you need to refrain from posting comments that will bring nothing until you know what you are doing. I held my thoughts for over a year as I followed the meta and only recently have I deemed myself good enough for my opinions to carry any weight. If you are still in the stage of thinking that some garbage mon like Qwilfish should be even in D rank (not even mentioning C) then you need to take a step back and look more into how ORAS OU works. I am not trying to be mean, but proposing a mon to come into C from Unranked based on your own experiences which you yourself admit are limited is simply a post that will cause nothing but crap in chat as it is already showing. If anything if a Mod comes across this stuff about Qwilfish he may just blacklist it.

First of all, you're really overreacting. Qwilfish isn't nearly as bad as half the crap nominated on this thread, and he at least did try to give reasoning, even if it was wrong. Also, mods don't normally blacklist stuff based on one nomination that there was very little argument about. They only blacklist stuff that is crap in OU that is getting pushed frequently and causing the thread to devolve in to back and forth bickering if it's brought up. That's specifically stated in the first post by the way.

 

[AM]

qwilfish isnt getting ranked but its not getting blacklisted either darth darkais last paragraph sums up what constitutes blacklisting as well.

 

[Toxzn]

I was suggesting a move to A and I think an argument for A+ can be warranted just by how much of a threat this is to teams in general.

Edit: This is in regards to Mega-Zam

 

[Guidorealmsmc]

for B

I believe mega garchomp's this low because of the speed drop argument and that regular chomp is better but that's not the case as it fills a different role then it's base form.Now let's see how it does in the current meta shall we? Sand teams becoming more popular is certainly suiting it's style as it is probably the best wallbreaker on that playstyle. It also enjoys balanced being popular as it can give it quite a bit of trouble because it eats physical walls that expect normal garchomp. Plus with vanilla garchomp being so popular it's actually very easy to disguise as a regular garchomp set. The main reason I'm only nominating it to B and not B+ is kyu-black is better in most cases unless on a sand team and the opportunity cost.

 

[Reisuke]

for B

I believe mega garchomp's this low because of the speed drop argument and that regular chomp is better but that's not the case as it fills a different role then it's base form.Now let's see how it does in the current meta shall we? Sand teams becoming more popular is certainly suiting it's style as it is probably the best wallbreaker on that playstyle. It also enjoys balanced being popular as it can give it quite a bit of trouble because it eats physical walls that expect normal garchomp. Plus with vanilla garchomp being so popular it's actually very easy to disguise as a regular garchomp set. The main reason I'm only nominating it to B and not B+ is kyu-black is better in most cases unless on a sand team and the opportunity cost.

I'd disagree with this. Simply because the speed loss is really bad because of that it gets outspeeded by pokemon that can deal a major chunk of damage to him before they die to one of chomps moves. However he's just one of the best pokemon in a sand team and still a good way to stop birdspam. But those things just doesn't make it B-material.

P.S. Sorry for not being able to post examples

 

[Guidorealmsmc]

I'd disagree with this. Simply because the speed loss is really bad because of that it gets outspeeded by pokemon that can deal a major chunk of damage to him before they die to one of chomps moves. However he's just one of the best pokemon in a sand team and still a good way to stop birdspam. But those things just doesn't make it B-material.

P.S. Sorry for not being able to post examples

The speed drop can be mitigated by holding off the mega until you don't need 102 speed or are against a bulkier team. Also how does mega garchomp counter bird spam?._.

 

[RoyalDispenser]

The speed drop can be mitigated by holding off the mega until you don't need 102 speed or are against a bulkier team.

The opportunity cost of wasting a mega slot for something you're not planning to even mega in the match is pretty significant. The only thing I'd give mega chomp credit for is the stall breaking potential but against HO or balanced it's near dead weight.

He needs the team support and synergy with tyranitar to even touch pokemon like latios, which scarf chomp can do on it's own.

 

[Reisuke]

The speed drop can be mitigated by holding off the mega until you don't need 102 speed or are against a bulkier team. Also how does mega garchomp counter bird spam?._.

Let's make it (kinda) checks birdspam then here's the calcs:

252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 153-180 (42.8 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Mega Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 271-321 (82.8 - 98.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

4+ Atk Mega Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 668-788 (204.2 - 240.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[pika pal]

for B

I believe mega garchomp's this low because of the speed drop argument and that regular chomp is better but that's not the case as it fills a different role then it's base form.Now let's see how it does in the current meta shall we? Sand teams becoming more popular is certainly suiting it's style as it is probably the best wallbreaker on that playstyle. It also enjoys balanced being popular as it can give it quite a bit of trouble because it eats physical walls that expect normal garchomp. Plus with vanilla garchomp being so popular it's actually very easy to disguise as a regular garchomp set. The main reason I'm only nominating it to B and not B+ is kyu-black is better in most cases unless on a sand team and the opportunity cost.

The main issue I take with the Kyu-B comparison is because of movepool. Kyu-B has the same offensive stats, but Garchomp's coverage on either spectrum is usually better. Kyu-B is hard walled by Steel types on the Physical side, so he needs Earth Power to get past a lot of them. Garchomp is most often using his mixed capabilities to break opponents with a certain defense stat bias, moreso than needing to go mixed to hit entire types as Kyu-B does. Kyurem-B needs his Earth Power to KO any steel he hits with it, while Garchomp's FB or Draco only needs to hit the few Physically bulky targets that can stomach his main STABs. There's just fewer targets Garchomp has to use his lesser offense for.

Something in me wants to compare him more to Landorus (in playstyle, NOT viability). Landorus tends to be oriented towards one offense (Special), occasionally utilizing the other only to break a few specific checks (Knock Off for Slowking or Latis, Rock Slide for Mandibuzz and SpD Gyarados w/ rocks, Tornadus-T). Kyurem-B needs to go mixed to avoid being walled by entire types, not just some specific Pokemon. Mega Garchomp can function fully physically with team support, but has the option to go mixed to break checks himself

 

[Guidorealmsmc]

Let's make it (kinda) checks birdspam then here's the calcs:

252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 153-180 (42.8 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Mega Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 271-321 (82.8 - 98.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

4+ Atk Mega Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 668-788 (204.2 - 240.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Thanks for clearing that up. Was that calc of mega garchomp stone edging talonflame really necessary because it's kinda obvious that would ohko. Also kyu-b and mega chomp are compared since they both do the same thing but kyu-b doesn't have an opportunity cost.

 

[Martin]

The opportunity cost of wasting a mega slot for something you're not planning to even mega in the match is pretty significant. The only thing I'd give mega chomp credit for is the stall breaking potential but against HO or balanced it's near dead weight.

He needs the team support and synergy with tyranitar to even touch pokemon like latios, which scarf chomp can do on it's own.

I have a number of problems with this argument is that it is indicating that you can compare Garchomp to Mega Garchomp in their roles, and it seems like you have misinterpreted what he said. He said that you can mega evolve it later in the match, and tbh if you are saying that is a wasted mega slot to not mega it is a lot like saying that Mega Sableye is a waste of a moveslot, as it is used in conjunction with base sableye to achieve maximum effect. Garchomp is like this, utilising its base form when it needs to maintain its speed tier and utilising its mega form when it wants to really wallbreak. Additionally, I like using the mega stone to bluff items such as Draco/Earth Plate, and it means that it is very easy to hide the fact that it is mega until it is needed.

Also why are you saying that it cant beat Latios when you shouldn't be using Garchomp to beat Lati@s in the first place? It outpacing non-scarf Latios is not really a good excuse to use (the somewhat mediocre) ScarfChomp in the first place, and beating them is what you have a team for - its why things like Tyranitar exist, so idk why u are suggesting that it is a bad thing that it needs Tyranitar to even touch it once it is on the field.
for those of you who saw my Politoed post before it got deleted, yes i know I'm a bit of a hypocrite when talking about teammates but i was tired when i wrote about Politoed so shush

 

[firehusky]

Ok so I actually think Glalie should stay ranked at D.

Glalie does have a bad defensive typing, bad speed, no way of boosting its attack, etc. However, Glalie should be used as a wallbreaker. Base 100 speed is actually great for a wallbreaker, outspeeding many common defensive pokemon. Bad defensive typing also doesn't really matter since Glalie is a wallbreaker so it shouldn't be trying to take hits. Yeah I get that it opens it up to priority such as bullet punch and mach punch, but once Glalie has done its job of punching holes in the opposing team, you might as well sack it. In fact, ice is actually a very strong offensive typing. Glalie has powerful 120 mixed attacking stats, and double edge packs mind boggling power, while freeze dry allows it to get past bulky water-types such as slowbro and rotom-w. However, one of the biggest selling points of glalie is refrigerate explosion. Explosion hits extremely hard and can be used when Glalie is almost dead to take down something with it. It's an extremely strong kill button, outright OHKOing many pokemon and putting large dents even into pokemon that resist it. Glalie also doesn't take much prediction to use. All you basically have to do is click double edge and watch something take lots of damage, and when Glalie has done its job it can just go out with a boom. This almost always guarantees that glalie is taking at least 1 pokemon down with it. Besides bulky steel-types such as mega metagross, mega scizor, jirachi etc, glalie really lacks good counters. Even then, steel-types do not enjoy taking an explosion.

So yeah, glalie does have bad typing, bad speed, bad bulk, etc. but that's really not that relevant considering it's supposed to be a wallbreaker, not a sweeper or wall. Glalie has a really strong spammable attack in the form of return / double edge that puts huge dents into anything that doesn't resist it and its mixed attacking stats are also decent. Explosion pretty much always guarantees at least 1 KO against a slower mon and glalie doesn't require a lot of prediction to use well. It takes up a mega slot, I can't deny that. But since D rank is reserved for pokemon that have little niches, glalie actually fits pretty well. It's a pretty powerful wallbreaker that does not have too many counters, requires little prediction to use well, and has a super strong kill all button with explosion. Yeah it does take up the mega slot but I think Glalie definitely has a niche and deserves to stay in D.

 

[Alastor Law]

I think zapdos needs a lot more love, so yeah move the big bird up, but torn-t i disagree with.
Honestly id be fine with everything torn-t has but its BIGGEST problem is its stabs.

You either have be piss weak with air slash or miss more than you hit with hurricane.

basically, its inconsistency and unreliability at doing its role makes me upset :< It has a gigantic movepool, fits great onto all kinds of teams, is fairly independent, has two great sets, fantastic stats, and fantastic ability, and would otherwise be A+ if not for its stabs. (while hurricane does always hit on rain teams, that's not enough to move it up)

Its like being forced to run either iron tail or metal claw on lucario/aggron, no matter how good their coverage, stats, and abilities are it really takes away from the overall performance.

While it's true that Hurricane makes Tornadus-T a little bit shaky as a hard hitter, I see Tornadus-T moving up both like as an offensive and a supportive threat. The ability of spamming Knock Off as well as checking a lot of threats is one of the main reasons why it should move up. Pressuring things like Starmie to keep hazards up or threatening Ferrothorn or Skarmory so they can't set their stuff as well makes up for Hurricane's low accuracy. Also, Tornadus-T is almost never going to sweep with Hurricane exactly for that, but he's going to deal some cheap damage on anything we need more often than not, and also there's that possibility of confusing the mon that comes in to take the hit. His transformation from BW has been similar to Garchomp's in ORAS, evolving from a hard hitter/sweeper to a fast supportive mon (unlike Luke for example). That's the reason why, although its STABS are irregular, it still deserves to move up in my opinion.

 

[Shruggy]

I don't think anyone was offended by them (and if anyone was offended by the mere mention of Qwilfish in OU, you really need to get a grip people). But yeah, Qwilfish is not good in OU. And you can post on the forums as much as you like. You can even give opinions on nominations people have made on this thread, based on your experiences playing. I just wouldn't recommend actually making any more noms until you're a bit more experienced.



First of all, you're really overreacting. Qwilfish isn't nearly as bad as half the crap nominated on this thread, and he at least did try to give reasoning, even if it was wrong. Also, mods don't normally blacklist stuff based on one nomination that there was very little argument about. They only blacklist stuff that is crap in OU that is getting pushed frequently and causing the thread to devolve in to back and forth bickering if it's brought up. That's specifically stated in the first post by the way.

Thank you for your advice sir. In an effort to retain a shred of dignity i'd like to join the discussion about M-Alakazam and moving him up from A- to A alongside M-Gardevoir who can be considered (slightly) similar. Now in terms of sheer power they are both very high, 165 vs 175 for Alakazam. Gardevoir has slightly more bulk spd and hp wise but Alakazams speed is literally through the roof at a whopping 150 vs 100. Now im going to assume, please correct me if im wrong, the reason why M-Gardevoir has the edge is because its ability is relatively straight forward, simple and very potent. Boosting normal moves into Pixie stab moves means that Hyper voice goes from 90 BP to 120ish BP while Alakazams comparable stab (Psychic) is stuck at 90 BP which means that although he has higher spa so non-stab moves hit relatively harder, his main nuke is not as strong. Added bonus of Hyper voice is going through substitutes which is pretty useful.

Garde also has the better pre-mega ability in trace, Magic guard is useful for Alakazam sure but trace is incredible! It can literally turn a game around if you get a clutch trace on a sand rush or swift swim etc. Therefore Gardevoir can come in and get the ability copied immediately whereas Alakazam has to wait a turn to evolve and smart opponents may switch out their weather sweeper or adaptability Mon to one that isnt quite so game changing on a trace and Alakazam misses his chance. However once Garde evolves it looses this amazing wonderful ability and goes to its generic straight forward hard hitting pixilate and proceeds to hit very hard very quickly off the bat. The fact that Alakazam GAINS this ability, opposite to M-Garde means that his game is just beginning and really the potential is just starting. While its immediate power is not as high your opponent now has to play very very carefully as they know that at any time your Mega can come in and take advantage of your strongest assets.

Therefore your gameplaying potential increases with Alakazam as you have so much more room for creativity and the skill ceiling gives you more room and freedom to make the game-turning plays. This is on top of his insanely good speed which literally allows him to come in and get a free revenge kill as his usual coverage (psychic/fb/sball) hits pretty much everything. If it is okay i'd like to post a replay of a game i had 2 days ago vs my new tutor bluwing. My play is not particularly great, and he was probably going easy on me but this game i think showcases just how clutch trace can be over the course of the match, grabbing 2 regenerators and 1 sand rush just shows how copying certain abilities can overwhelm your opponent when literally the rest of the team all they did was die and support Alakazam as he swept (and got lucky). I feel like any other mega would not have been able to carry me so hard to victory. http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-224573623

TL:DR, Sorry for the wall of text, basically im supporting the rise of Alakazam as i feel he gives you the greater potential which puts him on the same level as M-Gardes straight off the bat power due to his great dynamic ability.

 

[Martin]

Ok I'm going to make a psuedo-nom (more of a discussion starter than anything) on Weezing going Unranked-->D/C-: Weezing is bulky on the physical side (but we all knew that now didn't we?) and it does check/switch in on a number of S/A ranked Pokémon such as Mega Altaria, Azumarill, Landorus-T, Mega Scizor, non-Psychic Celebi, Mega Lopunny, Mamoswine, non-Psycic Landorus-I, Mega Venusaur, regular Gyarados, unboosted Mega Gyarados, Mega Aerodactyl, Bisharp, Talonflame before SD... you're getting the picture here. Add to this that a large number of Pokémon which can come in and threaten it out in theory - namely Mega Metagross - are discouraged by its access to Will-O-Wisp, making it even more potent as a physical wall. It is generally best on defensively-inclined teams, and it isn't very splashable, which is why I am not nomming it any higher. If you have anything to go against this, feel free to go ahead and say it.

 

[ボーイ]

Ok I'm going to make a psuedo-nom (more of a discussion starter than anything) on Weezing going Unranked-->D/C-: Weezing is bulky on the physical side (but we all knew that now didn't we?) and it does check/switch in on a number of S/A ranked Pokémon such as Mega Altaria, Azumarill, Landorus-T, Mega Scizor, non-Psychic Celebi, Mega Lopunny, Mamoswine, non-Psycic Landorus-I, Mega Venusaur, regular Gyarados, unboosted Mega Gyarados, Mega Aerodactyl, Bisharp, Talonflame before SD... you're getting the picture here. Add to this that a large number of Pokémon which can come in and threaten it out in theory - namely Mega Metagross - are discouraged by its access to Will-O-Wisp, making it even more potent as a physical wall. It is generally best on defensively-inclined teams, and it isn't very splashable, which is why I am not nomming it any higher. If you have anything to go against this, feel free to go ahead and say it.

I don't know man. I recently had a nomination for Arcanine to play the same role as Weezing would, the main difference being pain split or morning sun, which from my experience Arcanine would be the better mon. After all the effort to justify my claim, I was shunned.

 

[North Gate]

The thing about Mega Gardevoir compared to Mega Alakazam is that Mega Gardevoir absolutely tears apart stall with the sheer power of her boosted Hyper Voices, with access to Calm Mind, Taunt, Will-o-Wisp, and Alakazam gets Taunt and Calm Mind, but lacks the bulk to reliably set it up and Taunt is useful, it also gets Encore but it's so frail that it'd need to switch in on a status move to be reliable, and that's super risky. Alakazam has a better matchup against offense with its blistering speed stat and sheer offensive power.

While I agree that it should go to A, it really shouldn't compare to Mega Gardevoir who poses her amazing job as a wallbreaker and a stallbreaker, and her decent speed tier, unlike most wallbreakers, makes her at least a little decent against balance and offense. Mega Zam tears through offense but doesn't break stall as much as Mega Gardevoir does, even if Taunt is useful the thing is so frail it can die to the slightest prick that isn't a resist. Mega Alakazam's blistering speed tier and good power make it great against most offensive teams but if the other team has a focus sash mon, goodbye. Also since it has to rely on Focus Blast or HP Fighting smh to hit a resist and an immunity to Psychic STAB it can be quite unreliable and result in its downfall, mega Gardevoir has this same issue but even then only specially fat steels can actually switch into Hyper Voice without taking a decent chunk. And also Gardevoir still has the better bulk in its favor. Also not to mention that Focus Blast on Garde is literally just there to bop Steels, and nothing else, Hyper Voice handles Darks, but Zam has to rely on shaky accuracy for two types, one being immune to its main STAB and the other is a problem for both Gardevoir and Alakazam.