Stat Switch [Azumarill+Regice Banned]

[benjamin4321]

I use mega scizor with hp flying to counter breloom. You can even run defog on it too after you kill that super speed sticky web shuckle, but yeah i agree with the whole breloom is super annoying vibe.

 

[Dratios]

I just checked out this meta and it looks amazing

I'm just gonna leave this here...

Beedrill @ Beedrillite
Timid Nature
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
-Sludge Bomb
-Giga Drain
-Hidden Power Bug
-Electroweb

AW YISSS.

But seriously, Chansey might be able to be a semi-decent tank. Base 250 Attack and Defense is crazy, and base 105 SpD is pretty good too. But the Base 5 HP hurts >_>


Chansey @ Eviolite
Careful Nature
252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Atk
-Egg Bomb
-Drain Punch
-Wild Charge
-Ice Punch

 

[FlameUser64]

I just checked out this meta and it looks amazing

I'm just gonna leave this here...

Beedrill @ Beedrillite
Timid Nature
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
-Sludge Bomb
-Giga Drain
-Hidden Power Bug
-Electroweb

AW YISSS.

But seriously, Chansey might be able to be a semi-decent tank. Base 250 Attack and Defense is crazy, and base 105 SpD is pretty good too. But the Base 5 HP hurts >_>


Chansey @ Eviolite
Careful Nature
252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Atk
-Egg Bomb
-Drain Punch
-Wild Charge
-Ice Punch

Egg Bomb is inferior to Return in both power and accuracy, and Body Slam has much better accuracy and a secondary effect. Also, Wild Charge is inadvisable on Chansey unless you feel like committing suicide through recoil damage, since her base HP is so insanely low. Heal Bell (if you don't have Natural Cure) and Fire Punch (to hit Shedinja) can both be better options on that slot, while Thunder Punch can be used if you care that much about having an Electric move. Also consider perhaps running Adamant with 252 Attack instead of 252 Sp. Def.

 

[Halliday]

So, Snaq made me part of the council, and we decided a couple of things (some is still going through cause everyone hasn't voted yet, but these have already gotten majority):
Rayquaza: Ban
Regice: Ban
Deoxys-Defense: Unban
Kyurem-White: Unban

Edit:

Breloom is also suspect now, thank you.

 

[Throbulator36]

I told you crayqauza shoulda stayed banned.

 

[Angelique]

I use mega scizor with hp flying to counter breloom. You can even run defog on it too after you kill that super speed sticky web shuckle, but yeah i agree with the whole breloom is super annoying vibe.

Scizor can actually learn Air Slash, which is superior to HP Flying in pretty much every way.

 

[Jaguar360]

Scizor can actually learn Air Slash, which is superior to HP Flying in pretty much every way.

HP Flying does more because of Technician on Scizor. Still, aside from Breloom I don't see much reason to use it.

 

[Temporelucis]

What do you guys think about these 'mons?

67/125/40/30/30/58 -----> 67/30/40/125/125/58

Hide

Cranidos @ Eviolite
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
- Stealth Rock / Ancient Power

65/75/90/97/123/44 -----> 65/75/90/97/44/123

Hide

Dragalge @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Scald
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast

 

[Dratios]

Heh, I made that set without thinking much. So this would probably be a better one:
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
Adamant Nature
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
-Return
-Drain Punch
-Fire Punch
-Stealth Rock(? Not really sure what the last move should be)

You could also run a Serene Grace ParaFlinch set with Body Slam instead of Return and Headbutt in the fourth moveslot.

 

[diremirealis]

Mega garchomp get's base 170 speed along with it'e usable special attack and excellent movepool (fire blast+draco+earth power+filler)
Togekiss swaps it's offensive stats and gets hustle to boost its 120 attack, shame it no longer gets STAB extremespeed

 

[.Sleepy Slowpoke]

Mega garchomp get's base 170 speed along with it'e usable special attack and excellent movepool (fire blast+draco+earth power+filler)
Togekiss swaps it's offensive stats and gets hustle to boost its 120 attack, shame it no longer gets STAB extremespeed

*Attack

 

[TruBlaze]

Slowpoke, this is Stat Switch

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit 1:
Q1: Anyone have a special set for regirock?

Q2: How Come Alakazam's ATK Stat doesn't change

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit 2:

Heh, I made that set without thinking much. So this would probably be a better one:
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
Adamant Nature
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
-Return
-Drain Punch
-Fire Punch
-Stealth Rock(? Not really sure what the last move should be)

You could also run a Serene Grace ParaFlinch set with Body Slam instead of Return and Headbutt in the fourth moveslot.

Maybe Heal Bell or Aromatherapy, chansey learns both

 

[Fortune]

Slowpoke, this is Stat Switch

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit 1:
Q1: Anyone have a special set for regirock?

Q2: How Come Alakazam's ATK Stat doesn't change

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit 2:


Maybe Heal Bell or Aromatherapy, chansey learns both

1. Here is a decent special Regirock set:

set

Regirock @ Life Orb
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Ancient Power
- Earth Power
- Focus Blast

2. Alakazam's lowest stat is Defense, not Attack.

 

[TruBlaze]

thx

 

[Dratios]

Has anyone brought up Flygon yet?
Its new base stats are:
100/80/100/100/100/80
That Speed drop hurts, but Flygon has the special movepool to abuse this.
I'm assuming we're including ORAS-only moves so here's a set...

Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Timid Nature
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
-Draco Meteor
-Earth Power
-Fire Blast
-Boomburst

That's all I can think of right now. Please let me know if you have any suggestions.

EDIT: Lanturn might be a thing. 58/125/125/76/76/67 isn't too bad a spread, but Lanturn's physical movepool basically sucks. Here's a possible build:

Lanturn @ Life Orb
Jolly Nature
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
-Wild Charge
-Aqua Tail/Waterfall
-Sucker Punch
-Aqua Ring/Volt Switch

Naive nature should be used if you prefer Volt Switch, and I would use Leftovers on a Volt Switch set too. Wild Charge isn't too good because of recoil and low base HP, but the only other good physical Electric-type STAB is Spark, and there's no way I'm using that.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

I've been playing Stat Switch, and I have enormous doubts about "common" and even greater doubts about "viable".

More generally, Regirock and Regice really aren't as hard hitting as they look. Regirock's best damage output is about equivalent, before IVs and EVs are counted, to a STAB 90 BP move off a Pokemon of about 130 Special Attack -so Breloom using Energy Ball, say. After IVs and EVs it's more like a Pokemon with 118 Special Attack -and there's plenty of Pokemon with that much. In fact, Regirock is essentially outclassed by Carbink in every area, with the Speed tiers working out so that only, out of Stat Switch-OU-legal Pokemon the Regis themselves, Steelix (Almost certainly being used as a Mega, if at all), Aggron (Almost certainly being used as a Mega), Mega Slowbro, Mega Garchomp, Bastiodon, Mega Ampharos, Mega Banette, Mega Tyranitar, Snorlax, and then tied with Carbink are Diancie (Bad Carbink in all regards), Doublade, Probopass, Registeel, and Mega Swampert are all the Pokemon that out-speed Carbink or speed-tie it while being outsped by Regirock.

Note that a lot of these Pokemon are Megas, and some of the non-Megas aren't even viable. There's really no reason to use Regirock when Carbink is almost always going to hit harder, outrun the same stuff, and tank hits better. Carbink can even run Scarf if it wants (That makes no sense on Regirock) and will still have comparable damage output to Life Orb Regirock while outspeeding it and things it doesn't outspeed! And it has Sturdy! And it's less predictable! (Physical Carbink is plausible, and to a lesser extent support Carbink. Regirock is a straight attacker who maybe sets Stealth Rock)

Regice is less bad off -as far as I'm aware there's no Carbink to its Regirock to horribly invalidate it- but Pokemon with lower offenses still do similar or better damage. Keldeo's Close Combat is about equivalent to Regice's Ice Punch, Keldeo is still respectably fast, it gets Aqua Jet, it has better bulk (More HP with 90 in its defenses, so even on Regice's stronger stat Keldeo is about equivalent), it has a more useful ability (Justified is now relevant!) and can even properly set up! (Swords Dance) Any STAB Earthquaker with 135~ Attack does similar damage to Regice's Ice Punch after investment, not even getting into all the STAB Close Combats, STAB Flare Blitzes, and so on that lower that Attack requirement still further to equal Regice.

Regice and Regirock (Actually, not really Regirock because Carbink) definitely have uses, but they are also deeply flawed, and not nearly as impressive as they look on paper. In fact, playing Stat Switch has provided substantial illumination for me as to why the Regis are so goddamn awful in Standard -because their movepool is just not very good at much of anything. (And yeah in Stat Switch they're using the opposite attacking stat for which their movepool is particularly bad, but they just lack good tools in general)

So by that logic Carbink AND Regirock is broken?

 

[En Passant]

I'm not sure why MegaZam is seen as mediocre. Before the Physical/Special split, it was a bit infamous for its Psychic + Elemental Punches set iirc. It loses 20 base power going from Psychic to Psycho Cut, but it's still very strong and very fast.

 

[Ghoul King]

So by that logic Carbink AND Regirock is broken?

Regirock is honestly crap.

The council is considering the possibility of suspecting Carbink. One way of thinking of it is to compare it to Standard Deoxys Normal: it has the same offenses, the same Speed, and around twice the bulk of Standard Deoxys Normal, with a useful Ability (Sturdy) and much more useful typing. (Fairy/Rock is a surprisingly useful type defensively and a very good combo offensively) The main things Standard Deoxys Normal has over Stat Switch Carbink are Extreme Speed (Carbink has no priority), Psycho Boost's raw firepower advantage, superior movepool considerations for running mixed, and some stronger coverage moves. (eg Carbink has no Superpower equivalent) Even so, Carbink gets to run an actual item (Red Card is silly-obnoxious with Sturdy and gives you a free turn to set up Stealth Rock or OHKO something unexpectedly), the fact that it has twin STAB mitigates its inferior coverage strength (Its Power Gem is basically as strong as Standard Deoxys Normal's Superpower because of STAB, and then has no disadvantage!), and is just a very good typing overall. And, again, about twice as tough. (Before anyone tries to tell me it's actually three times as tough: Stat Switch doesn't modify the +1 HP per level bonus, which is effectively the same thing as having 50 more base HP than your listed number -so Carbink has actually moved from 100 base HP to 200 base HP, not 50 to 150)

I'm not sure why MegaZam is seen as mediocre. Before the Physical/Special split, it was a bit infamous for its Psychic + Elemental Punches set iirc. It loses 20 base power going from Psychic to Psycho Cut, but it's still very strong and very fast.

It actually gets Zen Headbutt for an even smaller loss. (Albeit the potential to miss) Regardless, it's badly overshadowed by Medicham in every regard except Speed, which is a pretty bad thing to be saying about a Mega Evolution. And the Speed advantage is mitigated by Medicham's access to priority. The one thing Mega Alakazam really has in its favor is access to Focus Punch, and that pales compared to Medicham running STAB High Jump Kick, and even STAB Drain Punch is almost as powerful without Focus Punch's flaw.

Meanwhile if you want to be a fast Physical murderer there's Regi- oh wait, it's banned. Even so, there's still Snorlax, Doublade, Mega Metagross (It sacrifices Defense, not Attack), Mega Camerupt, Aggron/Mega Aggron (Head Smash!), Dusknoir, Tangrowth (Again, sacrifices Defense, not Attack), Empoleon, and probably other stuff that breaks 100 Speed while having good-to-great Attack -Mega Metagross in particular pretty flatly invalidates Mega Alakazam unless you're hoping for Trace abuse in specific. (In which case why aren't you using Gardevoir?)

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Regirock is honestly crap.

The council is considering the possibility of suspecting Carbink. One way of thinking of it is to compare it to Standard Deoxys Normal: it has the same offenses, the same Speed, and around twice the bulk of Standard Deoxys Normal, with a useful Ability (Sturdy) and much more useful typing. (Fairy/Rock is a surprisingly useful type defensively and a very good combo offensively) The main things Standard Deoxys Normal has over Stat Switch Carbink are Extreme Speed (Carbink has no priority), Psycho Boost's raw firepower advantage, superior movepool considerations for running mixed, and some stronger coverage moves. (eg Carbink has no Superpower equivalent) Even so, Carbink gets to run an actual item (Red Card is silly-obnoxious with Sturdy and gives you a free turn to set up Stealth Rock or OHKO something unexpectedly), the fact that it has twin STAB mitigates its inferior coverage strength (Its Power Gem is basically as strong as Standard Deoxys Normal's Superpower because of STAB, and then has no disadvantage!), and is just a very good typing overall. And, again, about twice as tough. (Before anyone tries to tell me it's actually three times as tough: Stat Switch doesn't modify the +1 HP per level bonus, which is effectively the same thing as having 50 more base HP than your listed number -so Carbink has actually moved from 100 base HP to 200 base HP, not 50 to 150)



It actually gets Zen Headbutt for an even smaller loss. (Albeit the potential to miss) Regardless, it's badly overshadowed by Medicham in every regard except Speed, which is a pretty bad thing to be saying about a Mega Evolution. And the Speed advantage is mitigated by Medicham's access to priority. The one thing Mega Alakazam really has in its favor is access to Focus Punch, and that pales compared to Medicham running STAB High Jump Kick, and even STAB Drain Punch is almost as powerful without Focus Punch's flaw.

Meanwhile if you want to be a fast Physical murderer there's Regi- oh wait, it's banned. Even so, there's still Snorlax, Doublade, Mega Metagross (It sacrifices Defense, not Attack), Mega Camerupt, Aggron/Mega Aggron (Head Smash!), Dusknoir, Tangrowth (Again, sacrifices Defense, not Attack), Empoleon, and probably other stuff that breaks 100 Speed while having good-to-great Attack -Mega Metagross in particular pretty flatly invalidates Mega Alakazam unless you're hoping for Trace abuse in specific. (In which case why aren't you using Gardevoir?)

Mega alakazam is very easily revenge killed and it lacks power, it misses out on a lot of crucial ohkos. Also doesn't have a lot of HIGH BP moves

 

[Ghoul King]

Why are you quoting me?

Also, replays.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/statswitch-188781337

A full match in which Medicham illustrates why I'm not fond of Shuckle as a suicide lead.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/statswitch-188992875

Deathbink does a very good job of messing up a team, albeit with a particular bit of good fortune at the beginning.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/statswitch-188999150

This was just plain a fun/close match. Also I derp on Torrent.

And now for a new team made of less popular Pokemon.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/statswitch-190137795

My first match with the team: I immediately make several modifications. (As cool as Boomburst Flygon is, it's dumb and got me walled entirely by Gengar, which is popular and with good reason) Nonetheless I won a match against Breloom/Regice/Regirock/Gengar! In spite of many horrible misplays and just not trusting my instincts. (I was sure I should Will O Wisp on the turn Breloom switched in -but decided not to do it anyway :( )

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/statswitch-190146362

I derp and forget Tyranitar has no good Special Rock moves. Ugh. Interesting match though.

After two opponents forfeiting in the face of Mega Banette (??) and multiple matches that didn't finish properly for various reasons (Including a forfeit in the face of Paralyzed Crawdaunt that thus couldn't be Burned by Scald) I finally got another proper match...

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/statswitch-190611986

I'd hoped to show off Water Shuriken as another screw you to suicide lead Shuckle, but my opponent didn't lead with suicide lead Shuckle. And then they forfeited. To be fair, half their team was gone and none of mine...

Still having fun with the team, hoping fewer forfeits are in my future so I can properly test it.

 

[FlameUser64]

Well to be honest the only reason for Carbink was to mess up Regice. It can probably go since Regice is gone, but then that gets rid of one of the main answers to Breloom (Moonblast is a 2HKO). Partly, what I fear is that Regice's removal may have set up a long string of slippery slope bans, as anything with higher power relative to its OU counterpart is banned one-by-one. And believe me, a lot of things end up better than their original selves.

 

[Halliday]

Triple peak op

 

[yoman5]

Breloom does not need a ban IMO, it has several solid checks/counters, haunter/gengar make it pretty sad, sylveon can crush it behind sub with specs (or if weakened), froslass has taunt, outspeeds, and resists sludge bomb with a fighting immunity, things like kingler do enough damage to crush it's dreams if its not fully spdef, and even full spdef takes more than 65% so it cant switch in. It's extremely solid but I would more compare it to OU chansey, where it can do an incredible amount of work, but can not really solo an entire 6 mons, requires the team to set that up or just supports the team by forcing switches and getting chip damage off (leech seed). Also nobody uses it but me, but evio roselia literally crushes every breloom, and has spikes to punish the switch.

 

[Ghoul King]

Haunter/Gengar are not a counter in any way, shape or form except the possibility of dropping a Will O Wisp or Knock Off on it before its Toxic Orb kicks in, Taunt is irrelevant, Hidden Power Flying makes more sense for Breloom than Sludge Bomb anyway, and being able to force Breloom to switch out of your check/counter does nothing to prevent it from wreaking havoc on the meta. Kingler also can't take it down, because

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Kingler Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Breloom: 291-343 (62.7 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

is not adequate when it passively heals and you don't and it gets Spore. It can stick in, Spore you after accepting the hit, Giga Drain you twice, and that's it, Kingler was useless.

Breloom is a big problem because if you can't OHKO it or prevent Poison Heal from triggering, you can't deal with it. And if you can OHKO it, but can't prevent it from Sporing you, you still can't deal with it. Since even stuff like 150 Special attack doubly super effective effectively 90 BP moves are not able to OHKO it, it is alarmingly possible to have a perfectly viable team that just flat out cannot KO it.

And how on earth is Eviolite Roselia supposed to do anything to it? You have no offense and it can just rip you apart with Hidden Power Flying -and even if it lacks that it can still smack you with ineffective moves and just wear you down because you can't kill it due to its passive healing, while it absolutely can run through your Synthesis PP.

OU Chansey is not a passively unkillable monstrosity. Even teams that can't outpace its Softboiled/Wish healing can force it to burn through all its PP on healing moves and then kill it, and OU Chansey's only offenses of note are hitting you with Toxic or Seismic Toss. Breloom can 2HKO an alarming portion of the meta on its own, OHKO other stuff, force through Sashes/Sturdy with Vacuum Wave as a finisher, and simply never die because it exists and you don't have the offenses to take it on, or whatever you've got can't switch in on it, or whatever you've got is inadequate in the face of Spore and/or Vacuum Wave (Carbink is extremely powerful but can only 2HKO Breloom, which is to say even on a revenge-switch Breloom effortlessly destroys it), or because they manage to KO your one answer and then Breloom cleans up your remaining 5 Pokemon on its own.

And, again, its existence makes stall strategies cry, because the only way to take out Breloom is to OHKO it off pure offense. (And if you try to set up, it can probably Spore you and either KO you itself or switch in an ally that forces you to switch or be KOed) Breloom's existence shifts the meta away from stall being a viable strategy, other than through abusing Breloom itself!

 

[yoman5]

hp flying damage is negligible. breloom is outspeed and 2hkod by kingler, so you hve to sac into kingler, never said kingler was a switch in. Breloom is absolutely shredded by hyper voice off of sylveon, has a shit time vs anything remotely bulky with substitute (hello lucario and friends), and what is this alarming portion of the meta that is 2hkod? or are you only counting offensive teams? because mence, luke, scizor, gallade, talonflame, gengar, garchomp, latios, golurk, absol, all not 2hkod. Breloom is good, but not busted to bans imo. You talk about it like it can be a stall machine and an offensive 2hko machine at the same time which is just plain unreasonable.