Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[RufflesPro]

Okay I'm did this a long time ago but Reuniclus: Unranked -> B- Rank

Reuniclus is a excellent stallbreaker with his calm mind set and destroys HO teams with his Trick Room set. While Reuniclus's calm mind set is partially outperformed by Clefable, Reuniclus has superior bulk and the ability to take on Mega-Venasaur the most prominent pokemon on stall teams. Reuniclus can also drop focus blast and use a TR calm mind set that can both deal with stall and still ruin HO's day. Reuniclus definitely has an offensive and defensive niche in the meta game and deserves at least B- rank. I honestly don't know how we could have gone 200 pages without ranking Reuniclus.

Clefable is much more versatile than Reuniclus, Clefable has one of the best typing of the whole game while Reuniclus has shit typing, weak to Pursuit, Sucker Punch, Shadow Sneak, Knock Off, and U-Turn, 5 very very common move in the metagame, it's also weak to the most spammable type of the metaame, Ghost-, not to mention it is faster, not only that but can pass wishes, be a cleric with Heal Bell, and has a much better STAB move, Moonblast > Psychic or even Psyshock. Reuniclus may hit Mega Venusaur hard, but there are much better pokemons that can hit Mega Venusaur even harder. Dropping Focus Blast means you are getting owned by every single relevant Dark- Type. Clefable can also run support and Unaware to stop sweepers bar Bisharp.

Reuniclus is severely outclassed, it fits in C rank, I'd personally put it at C+.

 

[Red Cat]

46 Pokemon + stuff not currently on the list to discuss; this is really overwhelming. I guess I have to start somewhere.

First, Darmanitan and Chandelure for B-. Despite their speed issues, they are still nukes which no longer have to deal with permanent rain.

Also, Trevanent and Tangrowth up to B-. They are good bulky Grass types which don't eat your mega slot or get destroyed by Fighting-type attacks. They are also better than Roserade which should be dropped to C+ or C.

 

[acestriker19]

Clefable is much more versatile than Reuniclus, Clefable has one of the best typing of the whole game while Reuniclus has shit typing, weak to Pursuit, Sucker Punch, Shadow Sneak, Knock Off, and U-Turn, 5 very very common move in the metagame, it's also weak to the most spammable type of the metaame, Ghost-, not to mention it is faster, not only that but can pass wishes, be a cleric with Heal Bell, and has a much better STAB move, Moonblast > Psychic or even Psyshock. Reuniclus may hit Mega Venusaur hard, but there are much better pokemons that can hit Mega Venusaur even harder. Dropping Focus Blast means you are getting owned by every single relevant Dark- Type. Clefable can also run support and Unaware to stop sweepers bar Bisharp.

Reuniclus is severely outclassed, it fits in C rank, I'd personally put it at C+.

You're overlooking that Reuniclus' role as CM stall breaker is only half of what Reuniclus brings to the table. The arguably more capable Reuniclus set is OTR, which is outclassed by nothing as only Reuniclus has both the bulk and power to pull it off. Reuniclus is not C+ rank though its typing is poor defensively Psychic still has a great deal of offensive presence (also I messed up I meant drop shadow ball not focus blast). Reuniclus is one of the most unpredictable and capable answers to stall and HO while its typing has taken a hit it is still a very solid pokemon that deserves B-.

 

[typon77]

Reiterating what somebody on the previous page said about moving Goodra to C Rank. To be quite frank, I think Goodra is fucking terrible in this metagame and have never seen a reason ever to run it on a team, but I do agree that it has some merit, namely its stupid special bulk. Despite this, having special bulk means nothing when you take full hazards damage, a minimum of like 15-20% when you switch in, and no Leftovers recovery to help out. Yeah I know Goodra has a great offensive movepool, but using a 110 Special Attack with no boosting items or stat boosts isn't really making anything other than frail sweepers switch out. I guess Goodra makes frail sweepers switch out, but if your team doesn't have something that can tank a Goodra move then you need to work on teambuilding. Even with its great coverage, most remotely defensive pokemon can switch in. With prediction, you can get almost anything in, provided you're confident in what you're opponents going to do, as Goodra's Draco Meteor is not as mindblowingly powerful as something like Specs Latios. Other than Draco Meteor, Goodra doesn't have anything that hits non-specific targets hard. I just feel that Goodra is really easy to wear down, doesn't hit hard at all, and still gets demolished by basically any physical attacker. Dragonite does a better job as a Dragon type check to offensive mons, and it can actually check a wider variety of things (albeit a more limited number of times) with Multiscale.

 

[MilkyWay]

I think Crawdaunt deserves a B- rank at the least. The Choice Band set can practically 2HKO the entire metagame bar Chesnaught (which it could do with Aerial Ace) and its STABS get relatively good coverage. Knock Off is incredibly useful and hits ridiculously hard, capable of OHKOing Deoxys D. Crawdaunt also got Aqua Jet this gen, which not only makes up for Crawdaunt's poor speed, but is decently more powerful than Azumarill's. Finally, Crawdaunt has access to Swords Dance and Dragon Dance if it wants to attempt a boosting sweep. Even Jellicent and Roserade are B- rank...

 

[LightningLuxray]

Ok, here are my thoughts:

Chesnaught for B+/B

Chesnaught is such a good Pokemon this gen. It's Grass/Fighting typing is extremely helpful for defensive teams, as it allows him to resist the popular EdgeQuake combination. Leech Seed and Spiky Shield are also really great moves that can easily where down physical attackers. Synthesis provides reliable Recovery, and his ability, Bulletproof, allows Chesanught to wall Pokemon it would never normally wall before, such as Aegislash and Gengar. Overall, this thing's great typing, ability, and support movepool warrant B in my eyes, if not B+.

Next, I'd like to nominate Celebi for B-

Celebi is criminally under-rated this generation. While it's defensive set may face serious competition from Mega Venusaur, offensive Celebi is one of the best specially-offensive Grass-types in the tier. With access to STAB Leaf Storm and Psychic, as well as great coverage moves in Earth Power, Ancient power, and Hidden Power, Celebi can definitely do a lot of damage to the opponent's team. Combine this with the fact that it's one of the best Rotom-W counters in the game, and you have an great offensive Pokemon on your hands. Celebi's offensive set differentiates itself from Mega Venusaur by having more Speed, and more importantly, it doesn't take up a Mega slot, allowing you to run other potential Mega Evolutions such as Pinsir, Charizard, and Tyranitar.

I'd also like to nominate Thundurus-T for B-

Thundurus-T definitely faces a lot of competition from it's other Electric/Flying brethren, Zapdos and Thundurus. However, Thundurus-T differentiates itself by having a massive base 145 SpA, making it hit much harder than Thundurus. Thundurus-T's Dual Dance set is still very potent, even with the Hidden Power nerf, as it's large attack stat means it can still dish out a lot of damage. I've also used a Choice Scarf Thundurus on a Rain team of mine, and it's been doing surprisingly well, especially when in combination with other fast Pokemon such as Tornadus-T. All in all, while Thundurus-T has a lot of competition as an Electric/Flying type, it's niche is large enough to warrant B- in my eyes.

Finally, I'd like to nominate Vaporeon for C-/D

Vaporeon was a Pokemon who was in D rank last generation, and with things only getting worse for it, I see no reason for it to have risen. The Rain nerf hit Vaporeon the hardest, as it now cannot abuse the once usable Hydration + Rest combination. Even with this combination, it faces serious competition from Pokemon such as Manaphy and Goodra for a spot as a Hydration Rest user. It also finds its role as a bulky-water type heavily outclassed by Quagsire on stall, who with access to Unaware makes it a much better option. All I can really see Vaporeon doing in OU is Baton Pass, which even then leaves it at a very low rank in my eyes.

Also, I haven't had enough experience with it, but does Krookodile really warrant C+ status? It faces heavy competition for a bulky-Ground type by Landorus-T, Hippowdon, Gliscor, and to a lesser extent Quagsire and Gastrodon, all of which have access to much better bulk. All I can really see Krookodile doing is using it's Dark-typing to help absorb certain blows and it's access to Knock Off, but even then I feel like this thing would be perfectly fine in C.

EDIT: Just noticed Gothitelle is unranked ATM. This thing definitely deserves B-, due to it's amazing trapping skills. Especially against stall, if Gothitelle can switch in on the right Pokemon (Which usually will happen with smart double switching) then it can completely eliminate the Pokemon, which in turn can destroy cores. I do find this thing to be a dead weight a lot of the time against offense, however, but it's positive traits against stall really make it worthy of B-.

 

[Red Cat]

I think Crawdaunt deserves a B- rank at the least. The Choice Band set can practically 2HKO the entire metagame bar Chesnaught (which it could do with Aerial Ace) and its STABS get relatively good coverage. Knock Off is incredibly useful and hits ridiculously hard, capable of OHKOing Deoxys D. Crawdaunt also got Aqua Jet this gen, which not only makes up for Crawdaunt's poor speed, but is decently more powerful than Azumarill's. Finally, Crawdaunt has access to Swords Dance and Dragon Dance if it wants to attempt a boosting sweep. Even Jellicent and Roserade are B- rank...

Crawdaunt is very slow and very frail which makes it difficult to abuse all of that offensive power and setting up is very difficult to do against good players. It should stay in C+.

Ok, here are my thoughts:

Next, I'd like to nominate Celebi for B-

Celebi is criminally under-rated this generation. While it's defensive set may face serious competition from Mega Venusaur, offensive Celebi is one of the best specially-offensive Grass-types in the tier.

Unfortunately, Grass is a terrible offensive type to begin with. It is also no longer that great defensively because of the buffs to Ghost and Dark type attacks. Celebi faces a lot of competition from other Grass types and doesn't do much to stand out from them. I think it should stay C+.

 

[Aragorn the King]

Crawdaunt is very slow and very frail which makes it difficult to abuse all of that offensive power and setting up is very difficult to do against good players. It should stay in C+.



Unfortunately, Grass is a terrible offensive type to begin with. It is also no longer that great defensively because of the buffs to Ghost and Dark type attacks. Celebi faces a lot of competition from other Grass types and doesn't do much to stand out from them. I think it should stay C+.

Grass isn't a horrible offensive typing; it hits the #1 pokemon in usage super effectively. That alone shows the value of the grass type. Also, Celebi's Nasty plot and swords dance sets are both pretty effective now. They aren't fantastic, but its great defenses for an offensive pokemon + great boosting moves + unpredictability makes a B-/B pokemon in my opinion.

 

[Srn]

Next, I'd like to nominate Celebi for B-

Celebi is criminally under-rated this generation. While it's defensive set may face serious competition from Mega Venusaur, offensive Celebi is one of the best specially-offensive Grass-types in the tier. With access to STAB Leaf Storm and Psychic, as well as great coverage moves in Earth Power, Ancient power, and Hidden Power, Celebi can definitely do a lot of damage to the opponent's team. Combine this with the fact that it's one of the best Mega Venusaur counters in the game, and you have an great offensive Pokemon on your hands. Celebi's offensive set differentiates itself from Mega Venusaur by having more Speed, and more importantly, it doesn't take up a Mega slot, allowing you to run other potential Mega Evolutions such as Pinsir, Charizard, and Tyranitar.

Ok, I agree that celebi is cool for countering keldeo and checking thundurus (barely), both of which are popular. He's a pretty cool pokemon, and earth power makes it a fantastic heatran bait. But this little tidbit right here:

Combine this with the fact that it's one of the best Mega Venusaur counters in the game, and you have an great offensive Pokemon on your hands.

1. How in the world is celebi a "counter" when it is weak to Mega Venusaur's STAB? The best counter to Mega Venusaur is Latias in my eyes
2. Grass and Psychic aren't exactly great offensive types, nor do they get amazing coverage from STABs alone. Celebi must rely on coverage moves to hit the tier hard, and the hidden power nerf doesn't help it much either.
3. Don't talk about Ancientpower on Celebi lol that move sucks.
4. It also gets recover, which is way more reliable than synthesis.
5. However, Celebi doesn't get sleep powder, which isn't MUCH to lose since it's uncommon anyway, but meh.

 

[LightningLuxray]

Ok, I agree that celebi is cool for countering keldeo and checking thundurus (barely), both of which are popular. He's a pretty cool pokemon, and earth power makes it a fantastic heatran bait. But this little tidbit right here:


1. How in the world is celebi a "counter" when it is weak to Mega Venusaur's STAB? The best counter to Mega Venusaur is Latias in my eyes
2. Grass and Psychic aren't exactly great offensive types, nor do they get amazing coverage from STABs alone. Celebi must rely on coverage moves to hit the tier hard, and the hidden power nerf doesn't help it much either.
3. Don't talk about Ancientpower on Celebi lol that move sucks.
4. It also gets recover, which is way more reliable than synthesis.
5. However, Celebi doesn't get sleep powder, which isn't MUCH to lose since it's uncommon anyway, but meh.

Oh, god, I did NOT mean to say Mega Venusaur! I meant Rotom-W ;_; My mind must have been drifting towards their similarities, and I got them mixed up. Sorry about that.

EDIT: Yeah, Ancient Power is actually a great move when used correctly. It's the same BP as Hidden Power Rock, except you don't have to use 30 Speed IV's with it. Not only that, but it's a GREAT way to kill Talonflame, Charizard, and Mega Pinsir on the switch. While at first it does seem like a shit move, I promise you it actually does have merit.

 

[Galladium]

I'd like to nominate Malamar for C+ or maybe B- rank. Although it's base stats aren't too good, Contrary Superpower works really well, and it has dual STABS in Night Slash and Psycho Cut. Topsy Turvy also works really well, providing that Malamar can survive the first hit it can cripple an opponent's sweeper, forcing a switch. I've used this tactic before to destroy Baton Pass teams, which is psychological murder when your opponent realises that all the setting up they did is now worse than useless.

Trick Room is also an option for it, as is running an Assault Vest with Rock Slide for Bug types.

So, despite having a 4x weakness to U-Turn and low speed, I still think it should have a place in OU, for the reasons outlined above.

 

[LoDart210]

Finally! This is a much more interesting tier to discuss.

Chesnaught for B+ as many have pointed out, this guy covers a lot of top threats, especially that sneaky mega tyranitar (still have no idea why the Dragon Dance is so barely used.... its part of its plan, so that its more effective...)

but I digress

Entei for B/B+ I personally think B+, because his ability to spread burns and completely put a stop to heatran as well a halfway decent offensive check for the zards makes him awesome. He is bulky, and has just the right moves (only 4, but thats all needs) to cover many, many threats. pseudo EdgeQuake, Sacred Fire, and awesome priority in extremespeed? So many different EV and item combinations means you can't peg him down immediately (even if you can predict his almost never changing move set). He also hits that crowded 100 speed tier, making him no slug for such an offensive tank.

Staraptor for B/B+ double bird while reserving your megastone for something else alongside his monstrous power levels makes it a crime to keep staraptor down.

Mega Absol for C/C+ his frailty is just too costly. Any strong neutral hit takes him out.

Chandelure, Darmanitan, Crawdaunt for B-/B They are all eclipsed by higher level threats (Chandy by Zard Y, Darmanitan by Zard X, Crawdaunt in a ways, by Bisharp) but have really deadly sets that can catch players unaware. Infiltrator Chandy catches a lot of substitutes (Kyu-B) off guard. Scarf Darmanitan punches huge holes, and partnered with Zard Y, scorch both spectrums with sun power. Crawdaunt's swords dance set is nasty, especially under the rain, though that's not necessary.

Dugtrio for B-/B is there a better physical trapper? Dude can take out a lot of high level threats, especially with his high speed, and with a focus sash, he can finish any 2KO's that need to be done.

Espeon for B-/B because baton pass shenanigans, and because his specs set his pretty damn hard.

Krookadile for C/C- Intimidate and knock off don't make this guy worth it, he's still too frail.

Machamp for B- He's outclassed by Conk as an AV user, but his more offensive approach via Dynamic Punch, Stone Edge, Knock Off, Ice Punch/Bullet Punch/Earthquake makes him more immediately threatening.

Ninetales for B- only other drought mon, and with WoW, Hypnosis, and overheat, it could provide decent support. It's also not slow, at 100 base speed it outspeeds most walls.

Tangrowth for B+ or whatever rank Slowbro gets bumped to because his AV set and natural physical bulk allow him to wall a huge amount of A/A+ pokemon and with good natural offensive stats and a very wide movepool, Tangrowth can retaliate on both sides of the spectrum, for good damage, and great healing in regenerator.

Trevenant for B- because Harvest lum rest with curse is a great stall mon, although its not very bulky


Thundurus-T for B/B+his massive special attack, double dance set and his scarf set catch many foes unaware, and dude, 145 special attack with that move pool? very under rated


*exhale* Dis mah tier. Says a lot about me though....

 

[Starfall11]

Absol for B+
Absol has access to Ice Beam, Fire Blast, Stone Edge, and many other strong attacks that are under-utilized. I have been using M-Absol as a lure for Landorus-T and Gliscor with Ice Beam lately. The swords dance Sucker Punch set is an excellent late game cleaner capable of OHKOing M-Pinsir and Talonflame. He's a very underrated pokemon this generation. And I honestly believe he deserves B at the least.

Mega Absol should be used as an offensive pivot, so I have no idea why people keep referring to his frailty as a huge weakness. Bring him on a weakened pokemon with voltturn and knock off for KO or predicted switches. Fire Blast and Ice Beam really are excellent coverage. He's a great wallbreaker with both of them and knock off.

If people are still advocating he decrease in tier, they're using him wrong. But I digress, rankings aren't everything after all.

 

[TooMuchSugar]

Finally! This is a much more interesting tier to discuss.

Chesnaught for B+ as many have pointed out, this guy covers a lot of top threats, especially that sneaky mega tyranitar (still have no idea why the Dragon Dance is so barely used.... its part of its plan, so that its more effective...)

but I digress

Entei for B/B+ I personally think B+, because his ability to spread burns and completely put a stop to heatran as well a halfway decent offensive check for the zards makes him awesome. He is bulky, and has just the right moves (only 4, but thats all needs) to cover many, many threats. pseudo EdgeQuake, Sacred Fire, and awesome priority in extremespeed? So many different EV and item combinations means you can't peg him down immediately (even if you can predict his almost never changing move set). He also hits that crowded 100 speed tier, making him no slug for such an offensive tank.

Staraptor for B/B+ double bird while reserving your megastone for something else alongside his monstrous power levels makes it a crime to keep staraptor down.

Mega Absol for C/C+ his frailty is just too costly. Any strong neutral hit takes him out.

Chandelure, Darmanitan, Crawdaunt for B-/B They are all eclipsed by higher level threats (Chandy by Zard Y, Darmanitan by Zard X, Crawdaunt in a ways, by Bisharp) but have really deadly sets that can catch players unaware. Infiltrator Chandy catches a lot of substitutes (Kyu-B) off guard. Scarf Darmanitan punches huge holes, and partnered with Zard Y, scorch both spectrums with sun power. Crawdaunt's swords dance set is nasty, especially under the rain, though that's not necessary.

Dugtrio for B-/B is there a better physical trapper? Dude can take out a lot of high level threats, especially with his high speed, and with a focus sash, he can finish any 2KO's that need to be done.

Espeon for B-/B because baton pass shenanigans, and because his specs set his pretty damn hard.

Krookadile for C/C- Intimidate and knock off don't make this guy worth it, he's still too frail.

Machamp for B- He's outclassed by Conk as an AV user, but his more offensive approach via Dynamic Punch, Stone Edge, Knock Off, Ice Punch/Bullet Punch/Earthquake makes him more immediately threatening.

Ninetales for B- only other drought mon, and with WoW, Hypnosis, and overheat, it could provide decent support. It's also not slow, at 100 base speed it outspeeds most walls.

Tangrowth for B+ or whatever rank Slowbro gets bumped to because his AV set and natural physical bulk allow him to wall a huge amount of A/A+ pokemon and with good natural offensive stats and a very wide movepool, Tangrowth can retaliate on both sides of the spectrum, for good damage, and great healing in regenerator.

Trevenant for B- because Harvest lum rest with curse is a great stall mon, although its not very bulky


Thundurus-T for B/B+his massive special attack, double dance set and his scarf set catch many foes unaware, and dude, 145 special attack with that move pool? very under rated


*exhale* Dis mah tier. Says a lot about me though....

I'm fine with a lot of this stuff. However, there's a bit of an inconsistency:
"Mega Absol for C/C+ his frailty is just too costly. Any strong neutral hit takes him out."
"Espeon for B-/B"
Espeon has exactly the same physical defenses as Mega Absol, and only marginally better special defenses (the extra 30 SpD can't really compensate for that tiny HP stat). Now, the arguments you have for these moves are good, they just contradict each other. Pick one and you'll be fine.

 

[Ash Borer]

I think Crawdaunt deserves a B- rank at the least. The Choice Band set can practically 2HKO the entire metagame bar Chesnaught (which it could do with Aerial Ace) and its STABS get relatively good coverage. Knock Off is incredibly useful and hits ridiculously hard, capable of OHKOing Deoxys D. Crawdaunt also got Aqua Jet this gen, which not only makes up for Crawdaunt's poor speed, but is decently more powerful than Azumarill's. Finally, Crawdaunt has access to Swords Dance and Dragon Dance if it wants to attempt a boosting sweep. Even Jellicent and Roserade are B- rank...

I think part of this has to do with the fact that Jellicent is really, really awful. It beats nothing important but keldeo. Even Jukain's analysis of jellicent in the current metagame is forgiving considering how he says Jellicent beats gyarados when in reality, sub gyara, taunt gyara, and bite gyara are all pretty damn viable and all beat ellicent. Further still, knock off scizor is very common on Band AND swords dance.

Drop Jellicent somewhere into the C's

 

[Eievui-Nymphia]

Blissey is right now C+. I can admit now that overall Chansey is better for the extra physical defense but C+ is too low.

First at all, Chansey and Blissey has the same role, being the best special walls of the game, one with Eviolite, one with Leftovers.

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 171-202 (24.2 - 28.6%) -- 99% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 207-244 (28.9 - 34.1%) -- 99.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

I admit that Keldeo is a bad example (Secret Sword) but one of the most powerful special attacks of the enti9re game are handled equally.
Every special attack lower than that (there are a lot) Blissey does better than Chansey.
Also,
Sandstorm/Hail: The latter is non-existant but the former could be present with Tyranitar. Leftovers goes AFTER Sandstorm.
Will-o-Wisp. Overly common with Rotom-W but is not uncommon to see Heatran, MCharizard-X and even Talonflame with this move. Blissey takes half of the damage only because Leftovers. Same with Toxic (Leftovers is great to deal with that), Normal poison (from Sludge Bomb), Leech Seed.
Not cripple by utility Knock Off so hard like Chansey. Not that neither of the two has to eat an attack from Bisharp and the like.

About Crawdaunt, , it's basically a Rampardos (remember that Head Smash is not the only rock move it can learn) with priority Aqua Jet (it's great for it) and the powerful Knock Off.

And suggest eing at +2 (with two DD, or one SD), Life Orb and rain support in Gen VI is too much for Crawdaunt.

If you really want to show a example of rain support from Damp Rock Politoed,
+3 252+ SpA Manaphy Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur in Rain: 214-252 (58.7 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Or ecause you have to give up Energy ball for Rest, this
+3 252+ SpA Manaphy Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W in Rain: 237-279 (77.9 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. In return volt Switch can't 2HKO without rocks.
I use a 96 HP/252 SpA/160 Spe (speed for outspeed 252 Spe Excadrill) spread as a example of this calcs.

Id idn't notice until Chansey was out of UU but I have this
http://sim.smogon.com:8080/Threads/retroactiveUU/1850-1850-1760.txt

 

[LoDart210]

I'm fine with a lot of this stuff. However, there's a bit of an inconsistency:
"Mega Absol for C/C+ his frailty is just too costly. Any strong neutral hit takes him out."
"Espeon for B-/B"
Espeon has exactly the same physical defenses as Mega Absol, and only marginally better special defenses (the extra 30 SpD can't really compensate for that tiny HP stat). Now, the arguments you have for these moves are good, they just contradict each other. Pick one and you'll be fine.

Only reason why I say espeon should be in B- is because of its niche in baton pass teams as others mentioned, and because its spec set isn't shabby, with a workable move pool it can catch opponents off guard while playing the role of a magic bouncer.

Absol on the other hand is out classed in all its roles, be it a sucker punch sweeper, or a mixed sweeper and what lets it down most of all is its frailty.

And 30 extra points in special defense can make a difference when it comes to taking neutral special hits which espeon can do (once).

 

[Pancham]

Once again, something not having an analysis is not a reason to not give it a ranking. However, a Pokemon getting rejected is a perfectly valid reason, so removing both Forretress and Donphan.

Quick question, since Infernape was rejected at first, will Infernape also be removed if it ever drops down to UU?

 

[QuickBH]

Quick question, since Infernape was rejected at first, will Infernape also be removed if it ever drops down to UU?

Alexwolf said in page two of that thread even if he dropped down to UU he would still be viable, and thus not be dropped. Unless he changed his mind. That said, that question probably belongs in the Quick Questions blah blah blah thread as Ape isn't even C+.

On topic: Move Galvantula to C because of stuff that was mentioned a million times, it's niche is simply not worth his weak everything else, even if the niche IS sticky web.

 

[Pancham]

Alexwolf said in page two of that thread even if he dropped down to UU he would still be viable, and thus not be dropped. Unless he changed his mind.

Eh. Infernape was QC rejected as being "unviable". However, since it is OU, they had to give Infernape an analysis, which is the only reason it has one. Also, I just see Infernape's viability droping with the Mega Lucario and Genesect bans, as bird usage has increased because of this.

 

[Shroomisaur]

Gothitelle -> B- rank. Gothitelle isn't listed yet for some unknown reason, but it definitely deserves to be. Shadow Tag is obviously amazing, and Goth is the most well-rounded trapper available, as it can actually attack (sorry Wobb) and take a hit without sash (sorry Dugtrio). The list of things Gothitelle can single-handedly remove from the match includes top defensive mons like Chansey with Trick, Megasaur with STAB Psyshock, Skarm with Thunderbolt, etc. Unfortunately Goth has a poor typing, it's rather frail without investment, it's vulnerable to all residual damage and status, it's quite slow, and it needs to run Specs to have the power to actually remove these key threats. These problems really limit Gothitelle's trapping abilities, and it can generally only remove one Pokemon per match before getting crippled/KO'd. However, it can support your team like nothing else. B- for Goth.

Staraptor B- -> B rank. It hits extremely hard, it's reasonably fast, and can easily blow holes in opposing walls. As I recall this thing got listed right after the double-bird core became popular, and I think B- was pretty conservative. It might go down quickly, but it's one of those Pokemon that you don't mind falling because it's done its job. Solidly B rank.

Chesnaught ----- I'll be honest, I'm not sure if this guy should rise or not. There have been some good pro- arguments here, but I've been really disappointed when I've used Chesnaught. He does well defensively against Aegis, Exca and many other threats, but what can it do in return? Leech Seed and then get forced out? Set up Spikes, only to have them easily Defogged away? It's stuck with mediocre power, common weaknesses, and 4MSS that makes it useless against just as many Pokemon as it walls. I think it should remain B-.

Chandelure and Darmanitan - these two are right on the edge of C+/B- in my mind. Both are very powerful, run nice Scarf sets, and get quickly worn down by SR. I might test them out a bit more for now!

Breloom B- -> C+ rank. I'll be honest, this one is hard for me. I love Breloom to death but it just has too many struggles this generation, with the Grass-type Spore immunity and rise of new threats like Aegis that Breloom can't touch. Breloom isn't as awful as many people say this gen, but it would still be more appropriate in C+.

Goodra B- -> C+ rank. Goodra is something I've never been a big fan of it due to its lack of recovery and mediocre power. It does one thing very well - tanking Char-Y and other powerful special threats - but it's hard to keep switching into things, due to being vulnerable to residual damage and getting easily worn down over time. C+ is more appropriate here.

Galvantula B- -> C+ rank. Obviously Galvantula has one thing going for it, and I don't think that's enough to have it rated in B- rank. Sticky Web is nice, and an accurate Thunder sets it apart from Smeargle, but it's incredibly predictable, easily dealt with, and not effective enough to warrant a B-rank.

Jellicent B- -> C rank. Oh boy Jellicent, how you have fallen from glory. In my mind, this is one of the biggest falls in XY, the meta is just so unkind to Jellicent. Not only is perma-rain gone, which severely hurts Jellicent's biggest niche, but its other big niche (spinblocking) is no longer as vital either, due to Defoggers, Aegislash being the premier Ghost-type, and even competition from Trev/Gourgeist. The increase in Dark and Ghost-type attacks hurts too. It can still provide status support and has reliable recovery, but it's just not very useful in this metagame. I seriously struggle to find a reason to use Jellicent on any of my teams, and that really says it all. It should fall to C, or even C- honestly. I'm curious what others think.

Sharpedo B- -> C rank. I'm not sure how this thing ever got into B-, but I've already argued for it to drop once and it still should, due to the rampant priority and many defensive threats that it simply can't break. Bulkier offensive teams can stop Sharpedo. Even against frail offensive teams, having to Protect for the speed boost makes Sharpedo predictable and less effective. Sharpedo is C at best.

 

[TinyNinja]

You know, when you actually play, you find out that the rankings really don't have much to do with how good the pokemon actually are. Isn't everyone getting a bit too crazy about this?

 

[QuickBH]

You know, when you actually play, you find out that the rankings really don't have much to do with how good the pokemon actually are. Isn't everyone getting a bit too crazy about this?

This is purely for debate. A lot of people like debating either for biased or unbiased reasons, of course this doesn't rank their tier and stuff like that. It generally does show their prevalence and reliability in the current meta, but you can still use C ranked mons effectively it just needs specific optimization and if it wasn't good at all it wouldn't even be ranked.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

You know, when you actually play, you find out that the rankings really don't have much to do with how good the pokemon actually are. Isn't everyone getting a bit too crazy about this?

Blowing things out of proportion is what we do, this is mostly to help people understand how to use things, and if there are better options out there, and for that, it does really well. Whether someone is B or B+ is pretty obsolete, but you can usually tell how easy a Pokemon is to use by its rank

 

[Shroomisaur]

You know, when you actually play, you find out that the rankings really don't have much to do with how good the pokemon actually are. Isn't everyone getting a bit too crazy about this?

I see this list as a good guide for people who are new to XY OU, or new to competitve battling in general. I'm always interested in helping people new to the game, because Smogon is what got me into competive pokemon years ago! Obviously, does it matter in battle if a Pokemon is B- or C+ in this list? No. But hopefully this list can give newer players a good guideline about what works great, and what's not-so-great.

Unfortunately what usually happens is said new users see their favorite Pokemon listed and promptly post "HOW COME XXX IS SO LOW IT A+ FO SURE!"