Vaporeon

[un?lucky]

I've been trying out this set on a rain team,

Vaporeon @leftovers
252 hp 180Def 80spD
Bold
-Scald
-Toxic
-Haze
-Rest

It's really effective spreading around toxic and with rest it's able to stall out many pokemon. Steel types won't like the chance of getting burned along with the rain boosted scalds, even empoleon won't like the burn when it can't do much in return. Haze let's you stop pokemon setting up and really shuts down alot of potential threats. Predicting on the switch with toxic you're able to stall out pokemon who can do over 50% to you with electric moves using hydro rest, and is particularly effective against dragons who use outrage and draco meteor. It can be hard to take down if you arn't prepared and I encourage people to give it ago

 

[Phadunk]

what is vaporeon outspeeding with bold instead of relaxed? same question with modest instead of quiet.

 

[Miku]

what is vaporeon outspeeding with bold instead of relaxed? same question with modest instead of quiet.

Why would you want to be slower by using Relaxed/Quiet because you are not using any physical moves on Vaporeon anyway? >_>

 

[Raptorg]

what is vaporeon outspeeding with bold instead of relaxed? same question with modest instead of quiet.

Other base 65s that are dumb enough to run speed negative natures to salvage a stat they won't use(In this case, attack).

It doesn't matter who it is, if you've got the choice, lowering the attack stat you're not using is still better than lowering speed unless you're a trick roomer/gyro baller.

 

[moogleking]

Don't forget to set the Attack IV to 0; lowers Confusion damage and Foul Play damage.

 

[Phadunk]

or if i want to make sure the wish reciever i pass it to.. doesnt receive any damage from the opponents attack.

 

[NoahChron20]

Name: Choice Specs
Ablity: Water Absorb
255 HP / 255 SpD
Nature: Modest
Item: Choice Specs


-Scald
-Ice Beam
-Shadow Ball
-Signal Beam


Surf is STAB, Ice Beam is for Flying, Grass, and Ground, Shadow Ball is Ghost and Psychic, and Signal Beam is for Grass, Psychic, and Dark. It might be able to kill an entire team if you use it wisely!

 

[BurningMan]

Offensive Vaporeon can actually work decent under the rain it got one of the highest special attacks between the waters a set like:

Vaporeon@Life Orb
Nature Modest
Ability:Hydration
252 HP /252 SpA /4 Def (i think some EVs should be shifted from HP to Def to avoid some OHKOs/2HKOs, but i am to lazy to calc for this now)
-Surf/Hydropump
-Ice Beam
-HP Grass/Toxic
-Rest/Wish

can be very difficult to handle as its very hard to OHKO can fully heal itself in one Turn and hits extemely hard in the rain.

Choice Specs works too and with Hydro Pump and SR you actually have a chance to 2HKO Blissey (guranteed with one layer of Spikes) under the rain.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

If you didn't notice, I had that set in the OP for months now ^_^. It really is great.

 

[Molk]

Vaporeon has always been a centerpiece on my teams and that is definatly not going to change this generation especially cause of the wish buff and scald, its just so hard for opponents to ko, some attacks that would 2hko most pokemon dont do as much to vaporeon. Vaporeon is simply a beast at tanking AND wish passing

 

[PlatinumMage]

Can Vaporeon be a special tank? As in, being able to take special hits, and give fairly good ones back? I'm thinking of this set for a special tank Vaporeon.

Vaporeon@Lum Berry
Water Absorb
Calm
80 HP, 176 Sp.Atk, 252 Sp.Def
Water Absorb
-Scald
-Ice Beam
-Wish
-Protect

I know it might be a farfetched idea, but...what do you all think?

 

[AOPSUser]

I've seen a lot of Work Up Vaporeon lately. Never used one myself. Probably goes something like this:

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
Nature: No idea
EVs: No idea
-Work Up
-Rest
-Scald
-Ice Beam

Ice Beam is just filler. I've seen around 30 of these on PO and only a few actually bothered to use Ice Beam.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Vaporeon@Lum Berry
Water Absorb
Calm
80 HP, 176 Sp.Atk, 252 Sp.Def
Water Absorb
-Scald
-Ice Beam
-Wish
-Protect

Thing is, when you consider Vaporeon's initial defenses, you'll find that Vaporeon is pretty bulky on the special side already. Investing in physical defense is more practical due to Vaporeon's naturally high HP and not-so-hot Defense.

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
Nature: No idea
EVs: No idea
-Work Up
-Rest
-Scald
-Ice Beam

Life Orb + Hydration seems more productive than this, but even people are better off using Suicune (Calm Mind and actual usability outside of rain).

 

[AOPSUser]

Suicune doesn't get free Rests. He has to use Rest-Talk, which makes you a Mono-Attacker. Using Scald as that one attack gets you horribly walled by Water Absorb and Storm Drain users. Vaporeon does not need to resort to Sleep Talk and can fit one more attack.

Other than that, Suicune is way better at setup-sweeping.

 

[Smaug]

Vaporeon has the ability to be an incredible special wall. It reaches a maximum of 464 HP and 317 Sp. Def, which, combined with Haze and Toxic, allow you to counter special set-up sweepers. The problem is, with those two moves in addition to Wish and Protect, you will be extremely vulnerable to Taunt.

 

[Jimera0]

I've been trying out this set on a rain team,

Vaporeon @leftovers
252 hp 180Def 80spD
Bold
-Scald
-Toxic
-Haze
-Rest

It's really effective spreading around toxic and with rest it's able to stall out many pokemon. Steel types won't like the chance of getting burned along with the rain boosted scalds, even empoleon won't like the burn when it can't do much in return. Haze let's you stop pokemon setting up and really shuts down alot of potential threats. Predicting on the switch with toxic you're able to stall out pokemon who can do over 50% to you with electric moves using hydro rest, and is particularly effective against dragons who use outrage and draco meteor. It can be hard to take down if you arn't prepared and I encourage people to give it ago

A variant of this set is now actually onsite and is more effective than your typical Wish Protect Vaporeon in my (rather extensive) experience with both sets.

(Yes I wrote that analysis shutup D:)

It is most definately not outclassed by Suicune due to it's unrivaled ability to beat stat boosting Pokemon. Basically, any stat booster that is not Grass/Electric type is beaten by Vaporeon (Though you can't switch in on some as they OHKO, but that number is pretty much limited to Lucario, non-bulky Scizor with SD and DD Haxorus). I have never, ever used such an effective hazer before, and if you want to phaze instead it also gets Roar, which it's just as good at using as Haze.

Seriously, if you're making a rain team check this Vaporeon out. It's a Mixed wall like no other as long as rain is kept up.

 

[BurningMan]

Whats the benefit of using Haze over Roar?

 

[PoJ]

Whats the benefit of using Haze over Roar?

Well, with Roar you could accidentally switch in one of Vappy's counters. But other than that I think Roar is superior because it gets rid of stat boosts and racks up entry hazard damage (if your team has them set up).

 

[Axa]

Haze isn't blocked by Soundproof, or something...? I think it goes through Sub as well.

 

[Kindrindra]

Haze isn't blocked by Soundproof, or something...? I think it goes through Sub as well.

Roar bypasses Sub, too.

 

[alphatron]

Vaporeon has the ability to be an incredible special wall. It reaches a maximum of 464 HP and 317 Sp. Def, which, combined with Haze and Toxic, allow you to counter special set-up sweepers. The problem is, with those two moves in addition to Wish and Protect, you will be extremely vulnerable to Taunt.

Trusting water type Pokemon to be special walls this gen might not be such a great idea. Rotom-w is the third most used Pokemon and while you may have a pivot switch for him, all you're doing is giving your opponent free turns, regardless of hazards. This is also why slowing never sees the light of day while slow bro does. Then there is the fact that a specially bulky vaporeon becomes food for certain chlorosweepers and you realize that it isn't that useful at all.

Haze gets the nod for not having negative priority and saving your life against slow bulky boosters. It also isn't stopped by magic bounce. Haze's usefulness ends there though and doesn't cause your opponent to waste subs like roar does.

 

[Jimera0]

Trusting water type Pokemon to be special walls this gen might not be such a great idea. Rotom-w is the third most used Pokemon and while you may have a pivot switch for him, all you're doing is giving your opponent free turns, regardless of hazards. This is also why slowing never sees the light of day while slow bro does. Then there is the fact that a specially bulky vaporeon becomes food for certain chlorosweepers and you realize that it isn't that useful at all.

Haze gets the nod for not having negative priority and saving your life against slow bulky boosters. It also isn't stopped by magic bounce. Haze's usefulness ends there though and doesn't cause your opponent to waste subs like roar does.

Agreed with Vaporeon as a specialized Special Wall; it functions much better as a mixed wall that avoids powerful Grass and Electric types.

As for Haze vs. Roar, Haze does have it's advantages (And I personally used it over Roar on my own set). One of the biggest advantages that hasn't been mentioned yet is the fact that you don't always want to force the opponent out; sometimes you'd much rather keep them in and KO/cripple them, removing them from the picture permanently instead of temporarily. Most people aren't smart enough to switch their stat booster out immediately against Hydration Vaporeon, and stay in thinking they can win the war of attrition (they can't). Before long their bulky booster is wrecked and unable to cause you trouble later on in the match when you might be less prepared. Really if you're not running lots of hazards the only advatage Roar has over Haze is against users of Substitute, which I'll admit is a definite problem.

 

[Mr.L]

I'm sorry if I'm not contributing too much to this discussion, but about the Haze vs. Roar...

The main buffs of Haze over Roar would be the ability to keep something you counter in on you, which means the opponent has to switch and they lose momentum. Oh, and IIRC, Haze goes through Magic Mirror, and helps stop EspyBPass Chains.