Uber stall

obi

formerly david stone
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The goal of an uber stall team is generally to lay down Spikes, Toxic everything, and then use tanks to absorb their hits.

First off, there are two Pokemon that are on almost every serious stall team. They are like the Skarmbliss of ubers, but in some ways, much better.

The main walls

Lugia @ Leftovers ** A World Fell
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Def / 204 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Recover
- Reflect
- Toxic
- Whirlwind

The EVs of this one can be a little different. Some people use a lot more Defense at the expense of HP, possibly even going Impish over Careful. I prefer a -SAtk nature to assist with Struggle wars (which happen occasionally with a team like this). This thing can take pretty much any physical threat. However, it has some difficulties with Choice Band Metagross. An Attack Up forces you to Whirlwind it at fairly low health, and it is immune to Toxic.

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers ** Tetragrammaton
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Aromatherapy
- Light Screen
- Softboiled
- Toxic

Yes, that's right, no Seismic Toss here. Toxic provides all the offense you'll need, and anything with Taunt will have Recover, and anything with Substitute will be making 101 HP Subs, so the only Pokemon Seismic Toss even has a chance of helping you against is a Safeguard Lati@s. However, if you were fighting that, you'd need Toxic to kill it anyway, so Icy Wind is a better investment, as it will defeat Lati@s more often, and it is also useful for hitting Deoxys-F and Rayquaza on the switch in. Light Screen helps against Calm Minders as you wait for Toxic to kill them, and to help the rest of your team stay alive (most people forget about it, so they are shocked when your Groudon survives they Latios Ice Beam and OHKOs it with HP Ghost). If you use Light Screen Latias, you can free up that slot for something like Icy Wind, HP Dark, Flamethrower, and the like.

Between the two of these, the only pure Physical or pure Special attackers that can get through are Water Spout Kyogre (needs 3 layers of Spikes down or a CH before it runs out of its very limited 8 PP vs. Blissey, as it only does ~44%), a CB Metagross that doesn't miss and gets attack ups every turn, and Special Attackers with 101 HP Substitutes and Calm Mind, and Taunt Mewtwo, with Safeguard Lati@s also usually winning. Although rare, CB or Dragon Dance Tyranitar laugh at you. You also don't yet have the other very important aspect of any stall team, the Spiker.

Spikers

Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers ** Flying Tin Can
Trait: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 134 Def / 124 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Toxic / Counter / Hidden Power Flying
- Rest / Counter / Hidden Power Flying

This has the main advantage over the others of being immune to Ground, and it provides another source of phazing, which takes a lot of pressure of Lugia to counter Groudon (watch out for Fire moves). Counter or Toxic is needed to defeat Groudon. Toxic is the most generally useful move vs. Pokemon that aren't Groudon, but doesn't help so much against Substituting or Resting Groudon. Hidden Power Flying can help somewhat against Dragon Claw Lati@s and also stops the rare Heracross from utterly destroying your team, and turns Skarmory into a CB Deoxys-F counter (Superpower still hurts, though, so switch Lugia into those). The least used of the three Spikers.

Forretress (M) @ Leftovers ** Angry Scotsman
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 178 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Hidden Power Bug / Hidden Power Fire
- Rapid Spin
- Spikes
- Rest / Toxic / Counter / Earthquake

This has two main advantages over the other Spikers. The first is that it has STAB on Bug, allowing it to do something against Subpunch Mewtwo and seriously hurts Lati@s switches (and it can go toe-to-toe with them if they have only Dragon Claw, as a back up for if Blissey goes down), as it 2HKOs the standard Latias (4 HP EVs, no Defense EVs). Even if Latias stacks its HP, Hidden Power Bug can 2HKO if it rolls max damage, thus forcing Latias into Recoverlock, and the odds are in your favor that you'll CH. As Safeguard Lati@s is one of the Pokemon that you cannot permanently wall with Lugia and Blissey, this is a huge advantage. If you like, you can drop the Defense even more for some Attack EVs to make Latias have even more troubles. The second advantage of Forretress is that it can use Rapid Spin, which is invaluable vs. other stall teams. Earthquake helps it counter Metagross, another problem for Lugia + Blissey, and Counter is much of the same. Toxic, once again, helps it catch stuff on the switch, like Substitute Kyogre. Rest lets it win out vs. Night Shade / Seismic Toss Deoxys-L / Blissey, mostly, and helps vs. Metagross, if it doesn't get a lot of attack ups. Hidden Power Fire needs a -Attack nature, of course, and some Special Attack EVs, so it can hit other Forretress.

Deoxys-L @ Leftovers ** Valdnar
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 170 Def / 88 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Spikes
- Recover
- Toxic / Fire Punch / Superpower
- Knock Off / Fire Punch / Superpower

The only one of the bunch that isn't immune to Toxic, it already looks to be the worst. However, it has a few things the other two do not. The most obvious advantage is Recover. Not having to rely on Rest to get healed simply cannot be overstated. It also has a much better Special Defense stat, allowing it to take hits from both ends of the spectrum. Unlike its Steel counterparts, however, it has a variety of attacking moves. Under sunny conditions, Fire Punch will 1-2HKO Forretress and Skarmory, depending on how stacked their Special Defense is, but this is really only feasible with a Groudon, or enemy Kyogre will suddenly turn those hits into a 3-5HKO. Knock Off is another cool move, as it provides some lasting damage, regardless of type, Aromatherapy, and Rest, and really screws up Lati@s. Superpower is used to do at least 39% to Uber Blissey, so if you've already weakened it with Spikes, and maybe a Knock Off, you can potentially kill if it you predict the switch. It needs 85% health to survive 2 Superpowers with 3 layers of Spikes down, assuming max Defense (and Special Attacking Blissey often have to sacrifice a bit of that) and Leftovers are present, so as long as you can predict the switch to Blissey, if it has taken really any damage, it's screwed. Oh, and that's assuming Superpower rolls minimum damage both hits. If it rolls max damage both times, Blissey can be as low as 628 HP, or 96%, and still survive. Superpower is also nice to help against that huge Tyranitar weakness most uber stall teams have, as it is essentially going to 2HKO every Tyranitar you're likely to meet, before Spikes damage. Seismic Toss is another option on Deoxys-L, as it will do consistent damage to everything, and has more PP than Night Shade.

Forretress fairs best against other stall teams, thanks to its Toxic immunity and Rapid Spin, whereas Deoxys-L is probably your best bet vs. non-stall teams. Skarmory is kind of in the middle, and lets you be a bit more creative in your Lugia slot. Skarmory and Forretress are useful for their Normal resist, to take Metagross Explosion, mostly.

Miscellaneous additions

Groudon @ Leftovers ** HOWARD grouDEAN
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 24 Spd / 130 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ghost] / Toxic / Roar
- Rest / Toxic
- Sleep Talk / Roar

Counters two main threats to stall teams: Tyranitar (CB and DD) Metagross. Toxic will really screw up Lugia, because Blissey can't come in on Groudon to use Aromatherapy as easy. Roar is a circumlocutious way to stop Lugia from walling you. Put down a few layers of Spikes, and bring out Groudon. They'll go to Lugia pretty much all the time the first time you bring out Groudon, so use Roar. If you're lucky, Roar will bring out something like Blissey, which will take Spikes damage. Now they have to make a choice. If they leave in Blissey, they risk taking massive damage from Earthquake, but if they switch to Lugia, you might just use Roar again. Rest can be used with Sleep Talk or Roar, but you'll obviously only want to use Sleep Talk with Rest. Only drop Rest if you have Wish, in general, or Metagross and CB Tar with prediction will wear you down.

Latias (F) @ Soul Dew ** is crass
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Spd / 86 SAtk / 32 SDef
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Dragon Claw
- Recover / Protect
- Toxic
- Wish / Light Screen

This set really has one main purpose in life: to defeat Sub Kyogre, and it does that quite well. Use Ice Beam and Thunder together (generally with Recover), but with Dragon Claw, I'd use Wish and Protect / Recover (for ultimate stalling capabilities). Recover has more PP than Protect (thanks for the idea, G80), but Protect is useful to scout CB moves from dudes like Deoxys-F. With this EV spread, Latias Dragon Claw will break Kyogre's Substitute always, and then you just use Toxic on it. If it's a Thunder Kyogre, you're especially lucky, because it really can't touch you. Wish is also very useful to help keep other team members alive. However, if you drop Wish for Light Screen, this can tank special hits that much better, and also frees up your Blissey to use some other moves, most notably, Icy Wind or Flamethrower (only with Groudon), or even Hidden Power Dark or Ice Beam with Kyogre to OHKO Deoxys-F (Ice Beam also hits the rare Rayquaza).

Kyogre @ Leftovers ** AL kyoGORE
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 240 HP / 244 Def / 24 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Ice Beam / Calm Mind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Water Spout / Surf

Only use Calm Mind with Surf. This set easy beat non-Psych Up / Calm Mind Blissey, and can even outstall those quite often. You could also use a Substitute Kyogre here. Don't be afraid to use both Kyogre and Groudon, it's actually quite effective at frustrating teams that rely on either weather condition. You'll probably want to only make one of them a Sleep Talker if you do that, however.

Jirachi @ Leftovers ** Torn Asunder
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 240 HP / 96 Atk / 174 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Doom Desire / Toxic
- Protect
- Shadow Ball
- Wish

Another Wisher / Normal resist. Utterly destroys Taunt Mewtwo (unless they have Taunt, Calm Mind, Thunder, Ice Beam), and defeats all Taunt Mewtwo and all Substitute Mewtwo if you have a Groudon on your team to change the weather so Thunder isn't accurate (unless they have the extremely rare Flamethrower or Thunderbolt).

Blocking Rapid Spin

Because Forretress is the most common spinner, and because Spikes are so important, having some way of stopping Forretress is very important. The most common way you'll see is that people stick a Fire move on their Spiker and call it good. However, Forretress can easily come in on things like Lugia and Blissey, so you need some way to stop them always. Yes, that's right, a Ghost. There are 4 Ghosts you can use for this purpose (no, Shedinja does not count, and Misdreavus pretty much sucks). Eliminating those that are miserable excuses for uber Ghosts, we have Sableye, Dusclops, Banette, and Gengar. Sableye and Banette are functionally identical in their use and abilities, the only difference being that Banette's much higher HP and roughly equal Special Defense, combined with higher Speed and Attack makes it a better Pokemon for this. However, Sableye is a 100% counter to Calm Mind, Taunt, Psychic, Recover Mewtwo, or any other Mewtwo with Psychic as its only attack (or ones with Psychic and Focus Punch), and Sableye can Recover or Rest, whereas Banette needs to use other means. However, I actually prefer Banette's other move over Rest / Recover sometimes.

Dusclops (M) @ Leftovers ** I'm so useless
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Atk / 184 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Fire Punch
- Rest
- Shadow Ball
- Toxic

The most tankish of the 4. Fire Punch is to actually do something to Forretress.

Banette (M) @ Leftovers ** zip it you
Trait: Insomnia
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Knock Off
- Shadow Ball
- Snatch
- Toxic

Yeah, Snatch. It's fun to Snatch Blissey Softboiled, Aromatherapy, and the like. Fun to snatch Rest from random Pokemon that have it and aren't immune to Toxic, because it doesn't put you to Sleep. There's generally enough Recovering going on that Banette can heal itself enough. Knock Off to be cool.

Sableye (M) @ Leftovers ** omg no weak
Trait: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Knock Off
- Rest / Recover
- Shadow Ball
- Toxic

lol Sableye

Gengar (M) @ Leftovers ** lol, gfto
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Spd / 116 SDef
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Mean Look
- Perish Song
- Substitute
- Taunt

Most recent Ghost addition (I've used all these except Dusclops), and my absolute favorite. 320 Speed for Lati@s and the like. Basically, if you can kill an enemy's Blissey with this thing, it's gg for them thanks to being able to slowly wear them down since they don't have Aromatherapy any more. Blissey might come out because CB Gengar is also useful (next set). Taunt prevents you from Whirlwinded. Even if you can't pull of a Mean Look and a Perish Song (if they have an offensive team), you can at the very least Substitute down while they take increasing Toxic damage. The most common thing to happen (before I post this!) was for it to come out vs. Forretress, block Rapid Spin, and then Mean Look them as they try and Spike up. Perfect counter for last Pokemon stat uppers who can no longer be phazed, as well as people who challenge you with a BP team (sup Council and BLJ?).

Gengar (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 140 Spd / 116 SAtk
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Explosion
- Focus Punch
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Punch / Thunder

CB Gengar, if you want a more attacking version. Fire Punch with Groudon, Thunder with Kyogre.



Coming soon: Counters
 
Great guide Obi ^_^ I'll be sure to make an uber team using this guide soon, after I have less schoolwork to do.
 
Hey where's the love for Recover/Taunt/Toxic/Flamethrower Mewtwo? ;[

EDIT: Also Obi, you are a god among men for making this guide~
 
Nice article, Gengar deserves to be noted as a conter for Uber stall teams, Stabed Shadow Ball, and being immune to Toxic never hurts.
 

Jumpman16

np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
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Saw this in action yesterday and it worked really well even in the face of another Uber stall team (Mewtwo+Kyogre+Blisskarm). Icy wind is such an underrated move =D
 
I like it. nice read...how about posting a full team to get us lazy people that want to uber to be able to play?!
Rather stay with the flexibility and don't let this become the "Baton Pass chain" of ubers.

Good read, I will make use of this when I get back into ubers sometime. If you don't upload it I will.
 
I used Banette, it was awesome. Also, Psychic is a horrible attacking type in Uber and most people run Thunder/Ice Beam Mewtwo so I guess that weakens Sableye's usability.

What are the Sp. Defense evs on Skarmory for? Dragon Claw/Ice Beam?

Wouldn't HP Bug be more effective on Groudon or is HP Ghost used to hit Rayquaza neutrally?
 
Hidden Power Ghost hits Lugia SE (and Exeggutor as well, but only 2x). Bug hits Exeggutor 4x, and lol Blissey/Snorlax/other Normals but those will never face Groudon's Hidden Power anyway.
 
I still run an Uber Stall team, and I feel that only stalling isnt going to be able to get you anywhere. What I normally do, is get 3 layers of Spikes in with a few Pokes Toxic'ed here and there, and then I try to explode on their Blissey. If I can do that well enough, I bring in Latios to clean up easy. If I mess up and blow up on something like Lugia, I bring in Mixed Mewtwo and that cleans up like a bitch.

Rest and Defensive Kyogre also works really well.
 

obi

formerly david stone
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Yeah, it hits Lugia, Ho-oh, Rayquaza, Gengar, and Skarmory I guess harder than HP Bug. Really the only thing HP Bug hits harder is Exeggutor and the rare Sceptile.
 
Yeah I've been using a team like this for a while (around when everyone thought forry was a stupid in ubers) and I've found that sub petaya deoxys-f really works well with teams like this. Sub lets it make people take extra toxic damage for a while and then massive power the petaya'ed bolt beam it has cuts through almost everything immune to spikes. Spikes also fucks up it's best counters...

Speaking of that, I find forry a great petaya deoxys-f counter...only with these evs:

EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)

When I orignally made the team I was testing to see if forry was usable so I had more def and alot more attack to be able to mess with psychics. But it turns out the only thing the attack changes the k.o. rate on is mewtwo's and the odd tyranitar so I scratched that. The Evs above can then take 1 thunder from a petaya boosted f at max health. I suppose it depends on the team if you want to ev forry like this because my team doesn't force forry to switch in on meta and stuff too often so it's usually at 100% until blow it up so it works perfectly well.

Gengar fucks teams like this up pretty bad unless they are packing a recover mewtwo or something. Deoxys-L kind of cures that gengar problem though (if it has shadow ball or wants to slowly kill gar with knock off or whatever) so that could be mentioned.

nice guide.
 
I use your uber Forry for OU battling :D (although sometimes I want to switch to Explosion over Rest, there have been two or three battles I would have won with exploding...but rest is so nice :() Great stuff!
 

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