SM OU U-Turn Rain Z-Hypnosis Xurkitree Team (First SM OU RMT)

Mister57 · Mar 5, 2017

Hi everybody! This is my first SM OU RMT and I really hope to receive some good advices from you to improve my team. Thank you in advance!

As this is my really first SM team I decided to take it up from one of my favourite pokemons of the 7th GEN: Xurkitree. Looking at its checks and counters I realized it's not so simple to use. The main reasons are Marowak-Alola and Dugtrio, two pokemons that I usually see in top-ladder teams. That's why I introduced Pelipper, a good check to both Marowak and Dugtrio besides Marowak's Shadowbone that I always try to avoid. Here I came up with the idea of building a Rain Team; first because I'd never built one and then because otherwise Pelipper would have been useless in this team. Xurkitree can find a way to sweep quite easily but there are some pokemons which can hardly threaten it, like Ferrothorn, Mega-Venusaur and other Grass Types. In attempt to deal with them, I chose Tornadus-T as third pokemon. Then I thought: it is a rain team and I have neither any answer to water types nor water types on my own to take advantage of the rain. Immediately Ferrothorn and Ash-Greninja came to my mind. Eventually, I noticed Pheromosa and mostly Magearna being big threats to my team (regarding Pheromosa, I know Pelipper is a nice check but I didn't feel protected enough), so I chose Marowak-Alola as the last member of the team.

In depth

Xurkitree @ Psychium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Energy Ball
- Thunder
- Hypnosis
- ~~Hidden Power [Ice]~~ Tail Glow

Xurkitree has plenty of nice sets that I wanted to use, in particular the choice scarf one BUT this set surprised me incredibly. There are a lot of pokemons which Xurkitree can boost on with Z-Hypnosis and this is a fantastic way to sweep in the late game. Thunder takes advantage of the rain to improve its accuracy, whilst Energy Ball is a mandatory coverage that lets me break through ground types such as Landorus-T and Garchomp after a Tail Glow.

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Defog
- U-turn
- Roost

Pelipper is that kind of team-member that never has to die. It is the one and only which sets the rain up and plays even the Defogger role. Scald and Roost are fundamental moves and U-Turn gives momentum and crates a nice core with Tornadus-T and Greninja. The EV Spread guarantees Pelipper is never 2OHKO'd by Pheromosa's Ice Beam and gives a great physical bulk.

Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- Hurricane
- U-turn

This pokemon usually lets me sweep fat teams thanks to its colorful moveset. Hurricane is the main STAB that compaired with Life Orb does heavy damage. U-Turn gives momentum, Knock Off helps me against some bulky pokemons and Superpower hits Magnezone and mainly Chansey well.

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip

Ferrothorn is one of the most efficient pokemons to use against other rain teams and bulky water types at all. Its incredibly bulk assures it a long life and gives the opportunity to set the Stealth Rocks or Leech Seed some pokemons for a passive recovery. Gyro ball and Power Whip are helpful STABS against fast pokemons (such as Pheromosa, Weavile etc.) and Water Types (Manaphy, Tapu Fini etc.)

Greninja-Ash @ Splash Plate
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Water Shuriken
- Dark Pulse
- U-turn

Here comes the main sweeper of the team. Its huge power, the rain boost, STAB and the Splash Plate make its Hydro Pump scarely powerful. None likes to take it in face and if they resist to it, Water Shuriken clears the field. Anyway, the set is usual. 3 STABS and one coverage+momentum move. Greninja is the last member of the U-Turn core and I feel like it works well.

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Atk / 68 SpD / 52 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone
- Bonemerang
- Will-O-Wisp

Finally, Marowak-Alola is a perfect counter/check to many pokemons: Magnezone, Magearna, Tapu Koko, Pheromosa, Scizor and more. Apart from the usually attack moves, I chose WoW over any other move to annoy some physical attackers switching-in such as Garchomp, Landorus etc. . The investment into hp & special defense gurantees it'll live a Modest Tapu Lele psychic in Psychic Terrain. The speed investment is to outspeed 4 speed Alolan Muk. I know some of you could say: "A fire-type pokemon in a rain team, wtf?"
Yes. The main point is that I have only Pelipper as a rain setter and, although it has a damp rock, rain usually comes to an end. Then I have to find a way not to be worn down by the opponent and Marowak helps me check most of the biggest threats in the post-rain scenario.

That's all! I hope you enjoyed reading that and didn't get too bored by it. I'm looking forward your advices impatiently.

Threats

1)

2) Stall teams are a pain for my team since I do not have any good Stallbreaker but Xurkitree after boosts.
3) Fast Pokemons can give my team a bad time, especially if paired with Tapu Lele's Psychic Terrain.

Replays

Xurkitree @ Psychium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Energy Ball
- Thunder
- Hypnosis
- Tail Glow

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Defog
- U-turn
- Roost

Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- Hurricane
- U-turn

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip

Greninja @ Splash Plate
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Water Shuriken
- Dark Pulse
- U-turn

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Atk / 68 SpD / 52 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone
- Bonemerang
- Will-O-Wisp

Mister57 · Mar 10, 2017

Mister57 · Mar 10, 2017

Virizain said:
----------->

Whats the point of a rain team without swift swim users? Specs kingdra's hydro pump hits insanely hard without requiring you to KO something first and then transform, making it a more reliable sweeper to fall back on. Even though Ash greninja can switch into marowak aloan once, Pelliper's scald will OHKO it anyway, so the point is redundant. Kingdra also has the bulk to take a hit or two, which is something that you need looking at the lineup of your team. Overall, kingdra can replace Ash gren's role as a sweeper on your team.

------->

Xurkitree is just too slow to abuse the support brought to it by its team, and z-hypnosis is too unreliable to fall back on. So I reccmomend you try out Tapu koko instead. While its difficult to replace the pokemon you built a team around of, Tapu koko's 130 base speed will prove its use in outspeeding things like Mega pinsir, Greninja and tornadus T. Xurkitree's low speed means it will almost always get outspeed and OHKOed by anything like Mega meta's zen headbutt or Tapu lele's psychic, but Tapu koko's speed is here to fix that. Try it out, and it wont disappoint.

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Roost

Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Surf
- Draco Meteor
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam

Tapu Koko @ Magnet
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch
- U-turn

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip

Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hurricane
- Knock Off
- Superpower
- U-turn

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Bone
- Fire Punch
- Bonemerang
- Will-O-Wisp

Thanks for your help! I'll surely try your changes out.

Vert · Mar 10, 2017

hi Mister57,

xurkitree is a pokemon that only belongs to the sticky web archetype. even at +1 speed, it still ends up getting checked by every choice scarf user in the tier. in addition to this, it still gets outpaced by pheromosa. this is why sticky web is necessary, and without it, xurkitree will never win a competitive match. you may have won on the low ladder, but it won't do anything on the higher end without sticky web. i'm here to help your team overall and despite the team being built around it, i want to focus on your team's potential.

what i mean by potential is ash greninja + pelipper. this is a core that has a lot of potential in the current metagame so my rate is going to be focused on that. ash greninja in the rain is very powerful in the metagame but i think you have quite the creative senses so i'm not going to make this the generic rain team where you have damp rock pelipper and a swift swim user since i believe this team can function without rain.

i'm going to work around your 4 pokemon of ash greninja, tornadus-t, pelipper, and ferrothorn since i believe they make a very powerful core with great synergy. however, i have some set changes.
1. choice specs pelipper
- this set is to support ash greninja. choice specs forces typical ash greninja check such as ferrothorn and tapu fini to come in and take massive damage from hurricane. ash greninja rain does not need maximum rain turns-- you don't have a swift swim user and i do not plan on adding one.
2. choice specs ash greninja
- i know splash plate's purpose but you don't even have taunt with it lol. choice specs water shuriken in the rain is so powerful it can ohko pokemon such as garchomp and metagross after a spike (+stealth rock helps) while just coming in and flat ohko'ing set up sweepers such as mega charizard x. this thing will literally be unstoppable when you have choice specs pelipper supporting it early game. hydro pump from ash greninja in the rain also just comes in and just blasts past pokemon such as zygarde and celesteela.
3. spikes > leech seed on ferrothorn to support ash greninja as your win condition. takes a more aggressive approach which i am fan of and hopefully you are too. longevity does not matter with this set, especially on a team such as this.
4. taunt > u-turn or knock off on tornadus-t. stall and some of the heavier balances with venusaur / tangrowth + rocker cores will be problematic.

alolan marowak does not do much ferrothorn cannot do outside of checking pheromosa and slows down the momentum of your team. xurkitree is something i already touched so you know i am going to be replacing it. this team needs some way to remove hazards as they can be detrimental to your team. in addition to this, the team is still rather slow so a scarfer would be nice.

https://hastebin.com/ucowefewes.diff

i am suggesting an odd pheromosa set for you with rapid spin: subzero slammer. this set's goal fits perfectly on this team due to its ability to completely destroy amoonguss, gengar, tapu koko, regular gyarados, and a full health tapu bulu which will be extremely difficult to kill for this team. speed control will still be very necessary for this team which is why i recommend trying choice scarf keldeo (can be phenomenal as a revenge killer / additional cleaner in rain) because of the valuable speed tier while still checking most of the things marowak covered except magnezone (not a threat) and pheromosa (which can be annoying but playable around if you use a chople berry on ferrothorn. keldeo also gives you a secondary check to opposing ash greninja which will simply destroy this team otherwise. i would also try out full sdef ferrothorn just because of how ridiculous that 'mon can be. i left a hastebin so you can try out the team right away without wasting your time implementing these changes.

give me feedback asap. hope this helps :].

edit 3.11.17: blizzard can be used over ice beam on pheromosa since z-blizzard secures ko's on gengar and tapu koko with no prior damage and it also has a 100% chance to kill regular gyarados after stealth rock. unlike z-ice beam, z-blizzard actually has a chance to kill amoonguss after stealth rock.

Ash Borer · Mar 10, 2017

Virizain said:
First of all, choice specs Pelliper means no damp rock meaning rain will be over in half a second before you even notice. Offensive pelly also strips a lot of bulk that would have previous allow it to check Pheromosa, Buzzwole, and Volcarona. Overall, specs Pelly is just Mediocre. Stick with a defensive spread.

Replacing kingdra with Ash Greninja is even worse, with ash gren being being reliant on prediction to come in, achieve a KO and then transform, while kingdra just nukes things as soon it gets in. Rain without swift swim is pointless, really it is.

Im not trying to say your suggestions are bad, its just that there far from optimal. Swift swim will cover the "Speed Control" weakness so by not contradicting with my posts about kingdra, we save him a free slot on his team.

Can you stop purporting such massive claims without at least thinking them through? Ash greninjas water shuriken is exrcutiatingly powerful in the rain. It absolutely does not need swift swim to crush the same offensive teams that kingdra does. Ash greninja almost totally outclasses kingra in the rain. It has way, way more power, is way faster out of rain, and can beat priority users. Naturally, it DOES have to evolve but considering that base greninja is stronger than kingdra its not all that hard to achieve this..

Feesh Squad · Mar 10, 2017

Virizain said:
Swift swim will cover the "Speed Control" weakness

Just...no. Swift Swim doesn't really do much against Speed Control. Sure, one thing is fast, but what about if it gets paralyzed or comes in on sticky web? or if the opponent comes in with tailwind. god forbid they have trick room. either way, relying on something weather-based against speed control is shaky at best.

Both of these pokes act as fast wallbreakers for rain teams, with ash-greninja having significantly more power while kingdra more speed. Another thing, rain doesn't 'need' swift swim. it's like saying one always needs alolan raichu when you make a team around tapu koko. or you always need slush rush with alolan ninetales.

In short, you need to come up with a better argument of why kingdra should be used over ash-greninja.

Oh yeah, pelipper, imo, would probably benefit more from specs in this situation. this seems like a rather offensive team, and alolan marrowak already seems to do well against pheromosa and volcarona.

Leo · Mar 11, 2017

Virizain said:
First of all, choice specs Pelliper means no damp rock meaning rain will be over in half a second before you even notice. Offensive pelly also strips a lot of bulk that would have previous allow it to check Pheromosa, Buzzwole, and Volcarona. Overall, specs Pelly is just Mediocre. Stick with a defensive spread.

Replacing kingdra with Ash Greninja is even worse, with ash gren being being reliant on prediction to come in, achieve a KO and then transform, while kingdra just nukes things as soon it gets in. Rain without swift swim is pointless, really it is.

Im not trying to say your suggestions are bad, its just that there far from optimal. Swift swim will cover the "Speed Control" weakness so by not contradicting with my posts about kingdra, we save him a free slot on his team.

I think you don't get the route he took when rating the team (which he clearly explained so ?). As he said, he saw potential on the Ash Gren+Peli core and decided to leave the all-out Rain route to take a different approach of overloading water resists with Specs Peli+Gren (and no, this isn't suboptimal whatsoever as you claim it is, it's a legit and deadly duo that has seen some success in SPL). The original team didn't have Kingdra either way so he didn't exactly replace it, he just didn't suggest it. The thing is, the final product is completely fine and is really fun to use tbh, I've tried it on the ladder ~1700 and it works, changed a couple of minor things but the team as a whole is solid already

Colonel M · Mar 11, 2017

Virizain said:
Trick room is probably the nichest strategy in the game, I tried t and I'd rather use pikachu then use trick room anytime soon. Kingdra is a hundred times better then the shitmons you mentioned, aloan raichu and aloan sandslash aren't even viable, I dunno where you got that idea.

What the person (and others in this thread) are presenting are that you do not need Swift Swim users on a Rain Dance team. Can they be beneficial? Certainly. Kingdra and Omastar are valuable, but Ash-Greninja rain is not that bad at all. In fact, from the few times I watched Vertex use that team I would argue it superior. The OP's team is really close to an optimal rain team outside of two mons (Xurk and A-Wak). The OP does not necessarily have to commit to Swift Swim just because he is using rain.

Relying on weather based tactics is a lot more reliable then having to kill something before you're even useful. In no world does Ash gren outclass kingdra. It actually the precise opposite.

?

I'm not really sold on that. You haven't really presented such examples. Greninja may not have STAB Draco Meteor, but Dark Pulse and rain-boosted Hydro Pumps and Water Shurikens are no jokes either. Kingdra also has an issue of, when rain disappears or someone brings in something like Zard Y the Speed advantage becomes null. Greninja in rain has a rather easy time transforming if you play it right. Rain helps speed up the process.

Specs Pelliper is just trolling at this point. 5 turns of rain is stupidly short and the lack of bulk puts it so that pheromos ice beam 2Hkoes and Excadrill's rock slide really hurts. Stop talking about gimmick sets like those. Damp rock was necessary on any rain inducer, is still necessary and will always be necessary.

Here is a nice replay of Zamrock using Specs Pelipper in Week 5 vs Nedor.

While I understand that spl players at times bring rather out-of-the-ordinary sets, they can work well under specific team circumstances. In Vertex's example Specs Pelipper works well because it significantly chips through Specs Greninja and Scarf Keldeo's checks and counters with STAB Hurricane. Though the team needs hazard clearance from another Pokemon, he has options to deploy that mesh with the team as well since his 6th slot is literally a grab bag.

I don't understand why you vehemently went after Vertex's post and completely dismissed what his suggestions were. Though I don't always agree with him I feel his suggestions makes the OPs team a lot better to use from an offensive standpoint while still having Ferrothorn as a pit stop when needed for hazard control. The nice thing is his team isn't 100% reliant on rain - it is more like an added bonus, so he can also afford to be a little more reckless with Pelipper if needed.

Mister57 · Mar 11, 2017

Hi guys,
I really appreciated all your advices and want to express my opinion after replying to some of them in particular.
Firstly, I tried out @Virizain's first suggestions and realized that:
- Kingra is a fantastic Rain sweeper BUT it is too reliant on rain (as some of you already said, ZardY is troublesome after rain stops)
- Tapu Koko is better than Xurkitree in most of typical situations thanks to its higher speed which helps me against fast mons and gaining precious momentum from U-Turn. I have only a question for you: since stall is really threatening for this team, what do you think about a U-Turn, Thunder, Taunt and Nature's Madness ( w/ Zap Plate and Timid or Naive nature) moveset for Koko?

Secondly,

Leooo_33 said:
The thing is, the final product is completely fine and is really fun to use tbh, I've tried it on the ladder ~1700 and it works, changed a couple of minor things but the team as a whole is solid already

Which changes could you suggest me? I haven't reached that level yet but I'd like to.

Thirdly,

Colonel M said:
The nice thing is his team isn't 100% reliant on rain - it is more like an added bonus, so he can also afford to be a little more reckless with Pelipper if needed.

That was one of my main purposes when I built this team: usually rain teams are so reliant on the weather condition that as soon as they lose it problems start. Despite that, Specs Pelipper is quite strange for me since it's main purpose is to set the rain and remove SR from the field, while checking and forcing switches of the likes of Phromosa, Dugtrio and Buzzwole. However, I'm willing to try it out.

That said,
from my point of view either Kingdra or Ash-Greninja are viable rain abusers. I'm still uncertain which to use.

Leo · Mar 11, 2017

Mister57 said:
Hi guys,
I really appreciated all your advices and want to express my opinion after replying to some of them in particular.
Firstly, I tried out @Virizain's first suggestions and realized that:
- Kingra is a fantastic Rain sweeper BUT it is too reliant on rain (as some of you already said, ZardY is troublesome after rain stops)
- Tapu Koko is better than Xurkitree in most of typical situations thanks to its higher speed which helps me against fast mons and gaining precious momentum from U-Turn. I have only a question for you: since stall is really threatening for this team, what do you think about U-Turn, Thunder, Taunt and Nature's Madness ( w/ Zap Plate and Timid or Naive nature) moveset for Koko?

Secondly,

Which changes could you suggest me? I haven't reached that level yet but I'd like to.

Thirdly,

That was one of my main purposes when I built this team: usually rain teams are so reliant on the weather condition that as soon as they lose it problems start. Despite that, Specs Pelipper is quite strange for me since it's main purpose is to set the rain and remove SR from the field, while checking and forcing switches of the likes of Phromosa, Dugtrio and Buzzwole. However, I'm willing to try it out.

That said,
from my point of view either Kingdra or Ash-Greninja are viable rain abusers. I'm still uncertain which to use.

Both are different teams and have their merits on their own, I'd still recommend Vertex's team because all-out Rain Teams are relatively common in the meta (ok not so common but you run into those kinds of teams while laddering) and are prep'd for with stuff like Ferrothorn and Tapu Fini. Vertex's final team has the surprise factor of specs Pelipper which tears appart some fat water+fat grass defensive backbones and Gren for clean up, while not relying that much on rain and therefore being less match-up dependant

SM OU U-Turn Rain Z-Hypnosis Xurkitree Team (First SM OU RMT)

Mister57

Mister57

Mister57

Vert

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell

Feesh Squad

Leo

after hours

Colonel M

I COULD BE BORED!

Mister57

Leo

after hours

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