Other The OU Role Comparison Project

[Mowtom]

The OU Role Comparison Project

Approved by alexwolf
Credit to Theorymon for the OP and idea and Wyvern for making this thread for XYUU.

Have you ever pinpointed a Pokémon on one of your teams, where you find it's role to be extremely useful for your team, but wonder "man, if only there was a similar Pokémon that had more manageable flaws for my team"? If so, this is the thread for you! Believe it or not, there tend to be a lot more Pokémon that can achieve a certain role than you think, but often times, these Pokémon are obscure, or they may be common Pokémon using an unusual set, so the people who are looking for such a "role replacement" may end up never finding it!

This thread aims to fix that problem! The main goal of this thread is to highlight certain underrated Pokémon sets, by comparing them to more common Pokémon who fulfill similar roles, both the advantages and the disadvantages! This way, people who feel like their team could use with some changes can get some tips from this thread, or if they are just making a team with certain roles in mind, they can be exposed to some Pokémon that deserve more usage! Also, don't worry if you can't think of any good examples, commenting on examples already mentioned to incite discussion is fine too!

Here's an example to get you guys started. Feel free to use the same format, since it gets right to the point, but if you feel the need to deviate a bit, that's fine too!

Heracross as a Choice Scarf user vs. Mienshao

Mienshao @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Regenerator/Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- U-Turn
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge (filler)

Heracross @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Megahorn
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake / Night Slash

Heracross's Advantages:

1. Moxie Heracross can gain power as he revenge kills a certain Pokemon. With the Attack boosts gained per every kill, Heracross can also blow through the team with its power to be a sweeper

2. Megahorn This means Heracross can also legitimately deal some serious damage to Mew and Azelf, which Mienshao cannot do (and has to resort to U-turn to do so). This also means Heracross can deal some more damage to Shaymin than what Mienshao can do.

3. Better bulk Not that big of an advantage, but this means Heracross is capable of taking a hit or two, while Mienshao folds to even the lightest of Attacks, Heracross can sometimes take at least one neutral hit

Heracross's Disadvantages:

1. Lower Speed While Mienshao has the luxury of outpacing every Choice Scarf user in UU with its cookie-cutter Scarf set, Heracross often finds itself outpaced by Scarf Raikou, Scarf Flygon, and some other revenge killers. Mienshao, on the other hand, is faster than everything in UU bar the rare Acrotile and thus is a more useful revenge killer in general

2. Weaker STAB move Heracross's Close Combat still isn't quite as powerful as Mienshao's Reckless boosted Hi Jump Kick, meaning Heracross doesn't always hit as hard

3. Lack of U-turn Mienshao can switch right out of predicted switches to Nidoqueen and Cofagrigus, which means it can then immediately resort to a teammate to remove its counters. Heracross can't do this, and is forced to switch out if it mispredicts a Queen/Cofag switch-in.

Role Comparison Archive:
Bisharp vs. Thundurus as a Defiant user
Mega Tyranitar vs. Mega Gyarados vs. Mega Charizard X as a Dragon Dancer
Mandibuzz vs. Skarmory as a Physical Wall
Excadrill vs. Starmie as an Offensive Rapid Spinner
Latios vs. Latias as an Offensive Defogger
Terrakion vs. Garchomp as a Choice Scarf Revenge Killer
Mega Manectric vs. Raikou as Mono-Electric Volt Switchers
Tyranitar vs. Hippowdon as a Sandstorm Setter
Vaporeon vs. Alomomola as Bulky Water-type Wish Passers
Tyranitar vs. Snorlax as Bulky Assault Vest Attackers
Scizor vs. Escavalier as Bug-Steel Assault Vest User
Mega Charizard Y vs Landorus-I as Special Wallbreakers
Mega Pinsir vs. Mega Charizard X as Physical Sweepers
Azumarill vs. Crawdaunt as Physically Offensive Water-types
Quagsire vs. Clefable as Unaware Users
Diggersby vs. Pinsir as Swords Dance Users
Gengar vs. Mew as Stallbreakers
Togekiss vs. Scolipede vs. Mew vs. Celebi as Baton Passers
Mega Venusaur vs. Amoongus as Bulky Grass-Types
Mega Gyarados vs. Non-Mega Gyrados as Dragon Dance Sweepers

 

[Mowtom]

I'd like to get the ball rolling with this comparison:

Bisharp vs. Thundurus as a Defiant user

Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Pursuit / Swords Dance

Thundurus (M) @ Power Herb / Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly / Naive Nature
- Wild Charge
- Knock Off
- Fly / Hidden Power Ice
- Superpower

Bisharp's Advantages:

1. Better matchup against Defoggers Bisharp is usually better against Defoggers than Thundurus is. It can trap Latias and Latios with Pursuit, hits Zapdos and Mega Scizor much harder, and can better withstand Foul Plays from Mandibuzz. Thundurus only works better against Skarmory.

2. Better STAB moves Knock Off is one of the most, if not the most, spammable move in the game. Iron Head, Sucker Punch, and Pursuit are all great as well. Thundurus, on the other hand, is forced to rely on Wild Charge and Fly, which have recoil and a charge-up turn, respectively.

3. Access to a boosting move If Thundurus doesn't get a Defiant boost, it might end up being dead weight. By contrast, Bisharp has access to Swords Dance, making it possible for it to sweep without Defiant.

Bisharp's Disadvantages:

1. More predictable Defiant is the only ability Bisharp will ever use, and its possible sets are all very similar. Thundurus, on the other hand, often uses Prankster and a special attacking set over Defiant, meaning that your opponent is less likely to see the Attack boost coming.

2. Less Speed Bisharp's Speed is a very low base 70, meaning that it is often forced to rely on Sucker Punch for faster opponents. Thundurus has a much faster base Speed of 111, so it doesn't need an unreliable move to hit fast foes.

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

Heres a rather large comparison with mega dragon dancers

Now these guys are HUGE threats. Of all the threats I consider when teambuilding, these are the three that always come to mind. Now what do they have in common?


Bulk: All of these have at least 1 defensive stat over base 110.

Power: All of these have an attack of base 130 or higher.

Good Abilities: Mega Tyranitar has a stupid special defense stat in sand which it induces itself, Charizard has tough claws to give a pseudo-LO boost to moves like Outrage, Flare Blitz, and Dragon Claw, and Gyarados has Mold Breaker which allows it to beat Rotom-W, a would-be counter.

Set-up Sweeping: These guys all use dragon dance to set up.


Now lets analyze their best sets!

Tyranitar @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Crunch/Stone Edge
PROS:
-Stupid Bulk
-Decent Speed
-Sandstorm Chip Damage
-Able to take at least one hit from common checks
-Can go offensive with DD, but bulky is the scariest
-Most reliable win condition
CONS:
-Weakest of the 3
-4x weak to Mach Punch
-Wants to run adamant so badly but it cant lest it be outspeed by Greninja after a DDance and weakened where scarfers CAN kill it
-Often times dead weight vs stall/defensive teams
-Horrid defensive typing compared to the other 3, it may or may not have an easy time setting up

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Taunt/Ice Fang

PROS:
-Good bulk, but not as stupid as mega ttar
-Mold Breaker
-Can afford to run adamant
-Isnt OHKOed by mach punch
-Can mega evolve when it chooses, as pre-mega has a godly defensive typing to set up


CONS:
-Easier to check than TTar
-No moves to abuse Dark- STAB
-A bit weaker compared to Zard X
-Literally only weakness lost by mega evolving is rock

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz/Fire Punch
- Earthquake/Roost/Thunder Punch
- Dragon Claw/Outrage

PROS:
-Tough Claws give it the most power
-Fastest of all three dragon dancers
-Reliable recovery(Mega TTar be envious)
-With Outrage, it breaks stall the best of the 3
-Best defensive typing of the 3, so it can set up often
-Unpredictable, as it may be running bulky Will-o-wisp
-Literally no true counter, as it's best "counter"(quagsire) is 2HKOed by outrage

CONS:
-Frailest of the 3
-Has a 4x weakness to SR first time in
-Has a bit of 4MSS:It wants to run Thunderpunch for azumarill, Earthquake for Heatran, Dragon Claw for Rotom-W, Outrage for Quagsire, and Roost to live longer


Overall, neither of these inherently outclass the other, but zard x is definitely the best of the 3, with Mega Gyara and TTar not far behind. They both have enough traits to merit use over one another.

 

[z0mOG]

Mandibuzz Vs. Skarmory as a physical wall:
First of all, a few calcs to show difference in defense.

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 166-196 (39.1 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 135-160 (40.4 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mandibuzz: 268-317 (63.2 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 343-406 (102.6 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Pros: Slightly bulkier physically (barely.)
MUCH better special defense. (Biggest edge over skarmory.)
Access to Foul Play as well as Knock off.
Overcoat buff.

Cons: More type weaknesses.
Lower attack stat.
No hazards.
Weak to sneaky pebbles.

Common set:

Mandibuzz (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 240 HP / 248 Def / 20 Spd
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Taunt/Whirlwind
- Foul Play/Knock Off

Now the other.

Pros: Access to dual hazards. (Biggest edge over mandibuzz.)
Better type resistances, only weak to fire and electric. Easily paired with a core such as Rotom or Chansey.
Ability to live any hit and have at least two turns of hazard setting. (Sturdy.)

Cons: Lacks special bulk.
Slower.
Many higher tier threats threaten skarmory. (Charizard-Y, Rotom-W, Heatran.
Limited to certain moves.

Common Set:

Skarmory @ Leftovers/Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 232 Def / 252 HP / 24 Spd
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock/Spikes
- Brave Bird/Counter
- Roost/Whirlwind
- Defog/Taunt


Overall: Both are very viable as physical walls. (Mandibuzz still ranking higher on X/Y Viability ranking.) The choice to use one over the other depends on your teams' offensive core and whether or not hazards are needed or a bulkier 'stall' mon.

 

[The Shellder Smuggler]

Salamence VS. Dragonite as a Dragon Dancer

Pros:
-Much easier to use; has better attacking stats (In SpA)
-Has the option to run Life Orb
-Faster
-Has Moxie; allowing easy sweeping potential (Also Intimidate for Physical bulk)
-Looks cooler-I mean whut
Cons:
-Less bulky; lack of Multiscale
-No ExtremeSpeed; weak to priority
Common Set:
Salamence @ Leftovers/Life Orb/Lum Berry
EV:252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP (Adamant, Jolly)
Dragon Dance
Dragon Claw/Outrage
Earthquake
Crunch/Fire Fang

Pros:
-Multiscale allows for easy set-up
-Much more bulky
-More Specially-Based attacks (Although Dragon Dance doesn't affect that drastically)
-EXTTTREEMMEESPEEEDDDDD
Cons:
-Once Multiscale is broken, most Ice attacks destroy it
-Stealth Rocks cripple it
-Pretty much has to run Jolly
-Slower
-Steath Rock weakness
Common Set:
Dragonite @ Leftovers/Lum Berry
EV:252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP (Jolly over Adamant)
Dragon Dance
Dragon Claw
Earthquake
ExtremeSpeed
(Might as well mention Roost, although I don't see it as often.)

OVERALL:
Poor Salamence. Dropping down to BL was a huge shock to me. With access to Moxie, Salamence becomes harder and harder to handle. Being faster than Dragonite gives it a huge advantage. But don't underestimate Dragonite. He has Multiscale, a fabulous ability that makes you take half damage from an attack if you are at full health. However, Stealth Rocks can cripple Dragonite. Both of these dragons have a spot on almost anybody's team, it only depends if you need bulk or raw power.

This is really good. One nitpick that I see however is that the standard Salamence set has Fire Blast instead of Fire Fang and a Naive nature. But otherwise it's good.

 

[Mowtom]

Salamence VS. Dragonite as a Dragon Dancer

Pros:
-Much easier to use; has better attacking stats (In SpA)
-Has the option to run Life Orb
-Faster
-Has Moxie; allowing easy sweeping potential (Also Intimidate for Physical bulk)
-Looks cooler-I mean whut
Cons:
-Less bulky; lack of Multiscale
-No ExtremeSpeed; weak to priority
Common Set:
Salamence @ Leftovers/Life Orb/Lum Berry
EV:252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP (Naive)
Dragon Dance
Dragon Claw/Outrage
Earthquake
Fire Blast

Pros:
-Multiscale allows for easy set-up
-Much more bulky
-More Specially-Based attacks (Although Dragon Dance doesn't affect that drastically)
-EXTTTREEMMEESPEEEDDDDD
Cons:
-Stealth Rocks hurt
-Once Multiscale is broken, most Ice attacks destroy it
-Stealth Rocks cripple it
-Pretty much has to run Jolly
-Slower
-Did I mention a Stealth Rock weakness?
Common Set:
Dragonite @ Leftovers/Lum Berry
EV:252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP (Jolly over Adamant)
Dragon Dance
Dragon Claw
Earthquake
ExtremeSpeed
(Might as well mention Roost, although I don't see it as often.)

OVERALL:
Poor Salamence. Dropping down to BL was a huge shock to me. With access to Moxie, Salamence becomes harder and harder to handle. Being faster than Dragonite gives it a huge advantage. But don't underestimate Dragonite. He has Multiscale, a fabulous ability that makes you take half damage from an attack if you are at full health. However, Stealth Rocks can cripple Dragonite. Both of these dragons have a spot on almost anybody's team, it only depends if you need bulk or raw power.

I'm hesitant to add this one to the list. Why? Salamence is outclassed by many other Pokemon. Mega Charizard X hits much harder thanks to Tough Claws, is equally fast, and is weak to neither Fairy nor Ice, while Dragonite has a much easier time setting up thanks to Multiscale and is incredibly difficult to revenge kill thanks to Extreme Speed. While I don't deny that Salamence can be effective, I think that this analysis doesn't accurately represent Salamence vs. Dragonite. Would you mind either defending your position or editing your post to make it clear that Dragonite is usually better?

 

[The Shellder Smuggler]

I'm hesitant to add this one to the list. Why? Salamence is outclassed by many other Pokemon. Mega Charizard X hits much harder thanks to Tough Claws, is equally fast, and is weak to neither Fairy nor Ice, while Dragonite has a much easier time setting up thanks to Multiscale and is incredibly difficult to revenge kill thanks to Extreme Speed. While I don't deny that Salamence can be effective, I think that this analysis doesn't accurately represent Salamence vs. Dragonite. Would you mind either defending your position or editing your post to make it clear that Dragonite is usually better?

I would rather that the comparison be DD Zard X versus Dragonite, actually

 

[Excitement]

I don't get it. Doesn't Salamence have a Stealth Rock weakness too? It may be frailer and therefore less affected by it, but a weakness is a weakness nevertheless...

 

[The Shellder Smuggler]

I don't get it. Doesn't Salamence have a Stealth Rock weakness too? It may be frailer and therefore less affected by it, but a weakness is a weakness nevertheless...

All three candidates have a Stealth Rock weakness mate. Dragonite suffers more because of broken multiscale.

 

[heritage]

I don't get it. Doesn't Salamence have a Stealth Rock weakness too? It may be frailer and therefore less affected by it, but a weakness is a weakness nevertheless...

Yes it does, but the loss of Multiscale on Dragonite is MUCH more drastic than loosing a quarter health on Salamence.

 

[Excitement]

That makes a lot of sense. I feel like it's still worthy of being called a "con" for Salamence, though.

The Shellder Smuggler: The other one.

 

[The Shellder Smuggler]

That makes a lot of sense. I feel like it's still worthy of being called a "con" for Salamence, though.

The Shellder Smuggler: The other one.

...The other what?

Mowtom I'll write mine up soon.

 

[Excitement]

...The other what?

Mowtom I'll write mine up soon.

Oh, you meant 'zard. I assumed you wrote "three candidates" because you thought I was referring to an earlier post or something.

 

[Mowtom]

I'd honestly like to defend Salamence. The problems I see with Dragonite is that it's much slower and the Stealth Rock weakness I've mentioned. Plus, ExtremeSpeed does not get STAB, and can be tanked fairly easily, while Salamence has Moxie, which can be hard to handle if you don't have something in the likes of Skarmory. (Which still goes down to Salamence's Fire Blast after Stealth Rocks)
+3 252 Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Furfrou: 109-129 (30.7 - 36.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+3 252 Atk Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Furfrou: 164-193 (46.3 - 54.5%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(All calculations are Jolly)
And yes, I believe that BOTH of these are outclassed by Mega Zard X, BUT, neither of these have to waste a mega slot. Also, Salamence, as I said, has the option to run Life Orb. And, Mega Zard X was not even mentioned in the post. I kinda meant for that, as both are outclassed by it. I'll edit it if you'd like to mention Zard X. I honestly feel that both of these Pokémon run very nicely with Mega Manectric. Also, I didn't mention Zard X because OF CORSE it outclasses these two. It's a Mega Pokémon. I think, at least in my opinion, Salamance outclasses Dragonite it SOME aspects. Both of them have their advantages.

Firstly, I only brought up Mega Charizard X to compare it to Salamence to show why it is outclassed. I did not mean to compare it to Dragonite, and am fine with dropping the Zard X discussion.
Secondly, I'd like to point out that you have Dragonite at +3 in your calcs, but don't explain why. The answer is a big point in Dragonite's favor: Weakness Policy. It can usually get to +3/+1 in one turn by tanking a SE hit with Multiscale. Yes, Dragon Claw is stronger than Extreme Speed, but Dragonite can get past revenge killers (also, max Defense Fur Coat Furfrou isn't at all a relevant calc):
+3 252 Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-S: 243-287 (100.8 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+3 252 Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 295-348 (98.9 - 116.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+3 252 Atk Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 445-525 (148.8 - 175.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
These calcs actually mean something. Dragonite can use Extreme Speed to get past revenge killers who would otherwise be dangerous to it, while Salamence has no priority at all, so even with Moxie, it can be revenge killed very easily. Also, you used Jolly, both in your comparison and your calcs, and I did so in mine to compare to you on even ground, but Dragonite almost always runs Adamant. I'm sorry, but unless multiple people tell me otherwise, I don't think it is a good idea to add your comparison to the archive, as it is IMO too misleading.

z0mOG Mandibuzz just fell to A-, so you might want to remove the part where it is ranked higher than Skarmory.
The Shellder Smuggler I can't wait to see what it is!

 

[Mowtom]

That's absolutely no problem. I don't mind if you don't add it. I kinda just wanted to defend Salamence, because everyone is saying recently that it's not a good Pokémon anymore, which is beyond me.

I think I was misunderstood. I'm not saying Salamence is bad. It certainly Dragon Dances well. It's just that others, such as Dragonite, do it better. That said, I'm glad that you're fine with the comparison not making the cut as it is right now. Again, if you change it, I'd be more than happy to reconsider.

 

[The Shellder Smuggler]

MEGA SCIZOR VS MEGA PENISIR

Scizor pros:
- 150 base physical attack stat
- Has an amazing priority STAB in the form of Technician boosted Bullet Punch
- Great defensively, with only one weakness (Fire) and 80/140/100 bulk
- Has a great boosting move (Swords Dance)
- Neutral damage to SR

Standard:

Mega Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Roost

Pinsir Penisir pros:
- Great ability (Aeriliate) that boosts moves such as Return and Quick Attack
- Also has Swords Dance as a boosting move
- High Speed
- Its pre-evolved form has moxie, so getting a revenge kill can be useful

Standard:

Mega Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Aeriliate
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
- Swords Dance
- Return
- Quick Attack
- Close Combat

Conclusion:

Personally, I think Mega Scizor beats Mega Pinsir. Mega Scizor has better defensive qualities as well as an even higher attack stat. Mega Scizor also doesn't have a SR weakness as horrifying as Mega Pinsir's (4x, ew). Despite being much quicker than Mega Scizor, Mega Pinsir has trouble facing scarfers, as a +2 Quick Attack is the only way to get past them. Mega Scizor also has Roost, which gives it reliable recovery. All in all, I feel Mega Scizor is better than Mega Pinsir.

mowtom pls do i pass??/????/?//?/??

 

[Valmanway]

Excadrill vs. Starmie as an offensive Rapid Spinner



Excadrill @ Life Orb / Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin

Pros:
-Base 135 attack easily dwarfs Starmie's base 100 special attack
-Excadrill has a natural Thunder Wave and Toxic immunity
-Mold Breaker gets past Levitators such as Rotom-W and Gengar
-Has more bulk to take hits
-Can muscle his way past defensive and bulky teams
-Great at revenge killing with Choice Scarf

Cons:
-Base 88 speed isn't enough to sweep teams unless they're defensive or you have a Choice Scarf
-Is dramatically effected by Burn
-Weak to common Water-, Fire-, Ground-, and Fighting-type moves
-Can't scare out or take out faster threats before they take him out, such as Latios, Terrakion, Keldeo, Garchomp, Landorus, and Volcarona
-Being locked into Earthquake is never a good thing if your opponent has Flying-types that are still healthy



Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic / Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf / Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin

Pros:
-Base 115 speed lets it sweep more consistently than Excadrill
-Has Natural Cure to rid itself of status conditions
-Has Analytic to hit harder when an opponent switches
-Has Recover to heal itself if it forces a switch

Cons:
-Psychic is a bad defensive typing, leaving it with crippling Dark and Ghost weaknesses
-Lacks raw power to muscle its way past bulky teams
-Bad defenses means faster, hard hitting threats can scare Starmie out
-Can't guarantee 2HKOs many of the bulky top tier threats, such as Deoxys-D, specially defensive Tyranitar, Aegislash, Mega Scizor without HP Fire, Mega Venusaur, Rotom-W, and Chansey

Comparing The Two:

Excadrill has dethroned Starmie as the highest ranking offensive spinner, but that doesn't mean Starmie is exactly inferior in that role. There are a few definable differences between Excadrill and Starmie. For one, their stats are radically different; Excadrill has stats geared towards taking a hit or two while throwing mighty physical blows, while Starmie's stats represent revenge killing prowess with high speed and passable special attack. Another difference is their movepool; Excadrill can use Earthquake, Iron Head, and Rock Slide, taking on Steel-, Electric-, Fairy-, and Bug-types more effectively, while Starmie has Hydro Pump, Psyshock, Thunderbolt, and Ice Beam to take care of Ground-, Fighting-, Grass-, Dragon, and opposing Water-types. A third difference is their typing, so while Excadrill has many more resistances, including Fairy and Rock resistances, Starmie has key resistances to Fire-, Water-, Ice-, and Fighting-type moves.

 

[Mowtom]

MEGA SCIZOR VS MEGA PENISIR

Scizor pros:
- 150 base physical attack stat
- Has an amazing priority STAB in the form of Technician boosted Bullet Punch
- Great defensively, with only one weakness (Fire) and 80/140/100 bulk
- Has a great boosting move (Swords Dance)
- Neutral damage to SR

Standard:

Mega Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Roost

Pinsir Penisir pros:
- Great ability (Aeriliate) that boosts moves such as Return and Quick Attack
- Also has Swords Dance as a boosting move
- High Speed
- Its pre-evolved form has moxie, so getting a revenge kill can be useful

Standard:

Mega Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Aeriliate
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
- Swords Dance
- Return
- Quick Attack
- Close Combat

Conclusion:

Personally, I think Mega Scizor beats Mega Pinsir. Mega Scizor has better defensive qualities as well as an even higher attack stat. Mega Scizor also doesn't have a SR weakness as horrifying as Mega Pinsir's (4x, ew). Despite being much quicker than Mega Scizor, Mega Pinsir has trouble facing scarfers, as a +2 Quick Attack is the only way to get past them. Mega Scizor also has Roost, which gives it reliable recovery. All in all, I feel Mega Scizor is better than Mega Pinsir.

mowtom pls do i pass??/????/?//?/??

Here's the thing. Aside from them both being Megas, Mega Pinsir and Mega Scizor don't compete for a spot. Simply put, they don't share a role. The point of this thread is to look at Pokemon who do similar things and compare them, and your post...doesn't do that.

That said, I'd like to address all potential posters here. Make sure that you compare the two Pokemon in your pros and cons sections. I like the entries that Smog Frog and Valmanway did, but I think they could have focused more on the differences between the Pokemon they were comparing. I liked the sample post a lot (Heracross vs. Mienshao). Please refer to it, even if you don't use that format. Again, I did like the Rapid Spinners and Mega Dragon Dancers comparisons, but I would prefer it if they went more into the advantages and disadvantages of using them compared to the other one.

 

[The Shellder Smuggler]

Here's the thing. Aside from them both being Megas, Mega Pinsir and Mega Scizor don't compete for a spot. Simply put, they don't share a role. The point of this thread is to look at Pokemon who do similar things and compare them, and your post...doesn't do that.

That said, I'd like to address all potential posters here. Make sure that you compare the two Pokemon in your pros and cons sections. I like the entries that Smog Frog and Valmanway did, but I think they could have focused more on the differences between the Pokemon they were comparing. I liked the sample post a lot (Heracross vs. Mienshao). Please refer to it, even if you don't use that format. Again, I did like the Rapid Spinners and Mega Dragon Dancers comparisons, but I would prefer it if they went more into the advantages and disadvantages of using them compared to the other one.

? They are very much alike. Both are swords dance users, have the strongest priority move in the meta, and are of course both megas.

Mowtom you contribute very much around here but I feel like this is a little too strict. Personally Mega-Scizor versus mega pinsir would fit into this list.

 

[Rainman Legends]

? They are very much alike. Both are swords dance users, have the strongest priority move in the meta, and are of course both megas.

Mowtom you contribute very much around here but I feel like this is a little too strict. Personally Mega-Scizor versus mega pinsir would fit into this list.

I dunno. In my opinion, Mega pinsir and Mega Scizor are different. Mega Scizor is a bulky set-up sweeper/utility mon while Mega Pinsir is a frail fast sweeper. Not to mention that Mega Pinsir basically has 1 set while Mega Scizor has about 3 setrs. I don't get the same vibe from these 2.

 

[The Shellder Smuggler]

I dunno. In my opinion, Mega pinsir and Mega Scizor are different. Mega Scizor is a bulky set-up sweeper/utility mon while Mega Pinsir is a frail fast sweeper. Not to mention that Mega Pinsir basically has 1 set while Mega Scizor has about 3 setrs. I don't get the same vibe from these 2.

Eh, I guess you're right. I'd rather that comparison be posted though, since most mega scizors run max attack anyways

 

[Ladder Heroes]

I'd honestly like to defend Salamence. The problems I see with Dragonite is that it's much slower and the Stealth Rock weakness I've mentioned. Plus, ExtremeSpeed does not get STAB, and can be tanked fairly easily, while Salamence has Moxie, which can be hard to handle if you don't have something in the likes of Skarmory. (Which still goes down to Salamence's Fire Blast after Stealth Rocks)
+3 252 Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Furfrou: 109-129 (30.7 - 36.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+3 252 Atk Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Furfrou: 164-193 (46.3 - 54.5%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(All calculations are Jolly)
And yes, I believe that BOTH of these are outclassed by Mega Zard X, BUT, neither of these have to waste a mega slot. Also, Salamence, as I said, has the option to run Life Orb. And, Mega Zard X was not even mentioned in the post. I kinda meant for that, as both are outclassed by it. I'll edit it if you'd like to mention Zard X. I honestly feel that both of these Pokémon run very nicely with Mega Manectric. Also, I didn't mention Zard X because OF CORSE it outclasses these two. It's a Mega Pokémon. I think, at least in my opinion, Salamance outclasses Dragonite it SOME aspects. Both of them have their advantages.

In my opinion, Salamence does not have enough going for it to be used over either ZardX or Dragonite in almost any case. It has 1 base attack more than Dragonite with poor bulk. And those calculations with Furfrou were cool and Salamence has a chance to OHKO with a +3 Outrage with Life Orb, but the chance of actually having a
Salamence make it to +3 are tiny, while Dragonite can set up much easier. Also, Dragonite has a good base 100 Special Attack, and has access to Fire Blast as well. Moxie is a thing , but after a Dragon Dance, every one of these guys hits hard enough. If you want speed, power and bulk, use ZardX. If you need to reliably get off a DD, use Dragonite. Between these to guys there just isn't much space for Salamence. In short, Salamence is outclassed by Dragonite because Dragonite can set up much easier than Salamence and is outclassed by ZardX in almost everything(offensive typing, bulk, power.)

 

[Ender Wiggin]

Excadrill vs. Starmie as an offensive Rapid Spinner



Excadrill @ Life Orb / Air Balloon
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin

Pros:
-Base 135 attack easily dwarfs Starmie's base 100 special attack
-Excadrill has a natural Thunder Wave and Toxic immunity
-Mold Breaker gets past Levitators such as Rotom-W and Gengar
-Has more bulk to take hits
-Can muscle his way past defensive and bulky teams

Cons:
-Base 88 speed isn't enough to sweep teams unless they're defensive
-Is dramatically effected by Burn
-Weak to common Water-, Fire-, Ground-, and Fighting-type moves
-Can't scare out or take out faster threats before they take him out, such as Latios, Terrakion, Keldeo, Garchomp, Landorus, and Volcarona.



Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic / Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf / Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin

Pros:
-Base 115 speed lets it sweep more consistently than Excadrill
-Has Natural Cure to rid itself of status conditions
-Has Analytic to hit harder when an opponent switches
-Has Recover to heal itself if it forces a switch

Cons:
-Psychic is a bad defensive typing, leaving it with crippling Dark and Ghost weaknesses
-Lacks raw power to muscle its way past bulky teams
-Bad defenses means faster, hard hitting threats can scare Starmie out
-Can't guarantee 2HKOs many of the bulky top tier threats, such as Deoxys-D, specially defensive Tyranitar, Aegislash, Mega Scizor without HP Fire, Mega Venusaur, Rotom-W, and Chansey.

You constantly mention excadrills lack of speed when scarf is considered one of the more viable options. Scarf lets it kill a lot of those pokemon you listed outspeed it. Obviously scarf has it's draw backs but it still makes him much more threatening.

 

[Aragorn the King]

Also, Dragonite has a good base 100 Special Attack, and has access to Fire Blast as well. Moxie is a thing , but after a Dragon Dance, every one of these guys hits hard enough. If you want speed, power and bulk, use ZardX. If you need to reliably get off a DD, use Dragonite. Between these to guys there just isn't much space for Salamence. In short, Salamence is outclassed by Dragonite because Dragonite can set up much easier than Salamence and is outclassed by ZardX in almost everything(offensive typing, bulk, power.)

I agree that Dnite is a lot better, but Salamence actually has 110 Base Special Attack, also with Fire Blast and Hydro Pump, meaning mixed sets are a bit better. Also, Fire Blast should never really be used on Dnite.

 

[Valmanway]

You constantly mention excadrills lack of speed when scarf is considered one of the more viable options. Scarf lets it kill a lot of those pokemon you listed outspeed it. Obviously scarf has it's draw backs but it still makes him much more threatening.

Really? Huh, I don't see that very often, but I can definitely see Scarf sets being viable. Though I was comparing Starmie's and Excadrill's Life Orb sets to each other, which I thought was the purpose of this thread.