The Ideal Lead

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Taylor

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It only seems fitting to include another general topic in Stark Mountain for us to discuss intelligently.

The Ideal Lead

When you build your team, arguably the most important prospect is the lead. It's absolutely essential for you to begin a match with your lead being capable of gaining the advantage as soon as possible, and on a regular basis, from match-to-match; whether that set-up include hentry-hazards, Baton Pass chaining, or inflicting direct damage as lethally as possible with your Life Orb or Choice Banded lead. Whatever your beginning strategy may consist of, your intentions are quite simple - make an effort to gain advantage from the turn in which the match begun.

Different leads offer a wide variety of scenarios, each one with different results; sometimes the match is over before the game even begun, courtesy of those successful suicide leads, as it becomes extremely difficult to come back from once those enemy leads that set Stealth Rock onto the playing field and explode on one of your crucial members of your team.

Executing your ideal strategy right off-the-bat can be disrupted through the opponent's lead. I will illustrate a scenario for you to understand this more thoroughly.

Examples

Turn one begins, and you're preparing to execute your initial strategy. Rosarade is your current lead, which, to many of you all know, is designed to sleep the opposing lead/switch-in through Sleep Powder, immediately following with a layer or two of Toxic Spikes. The opposition, in this particular illustration, leads with Tyranitar.

Unfortunately, Tyranitar's well-renowned for its trait, Sand Stream, a blistering sandstorm that forever lasts until the weather is manually changed by its owner or the opponent. In this case, Focus Sash is your Rosarade's item, which is now eliminated from the match, thanks to the unappreciated sandstorm your opponent set-up with Tyranitar.

However, this doesn't grant the opponent with complete control of the match, as you're certainly elligible to Sleep Powder Tyranitar, enducing it in an unexpected sleep. But... you have to take a step back and consider the consequences - one of them being the possibility that the opposing Tyranitar carries Lum Berry as its item. What if this was the case? I presume Rosarade would take a powerful Crunch to the face; and, as a result, award the opponent with an OHKO in his favor, which puts you in a difficult position.

Regret this? Wishing you had just switched or set-up just one layer of Toxic Spikes?

Lum Berry, the unorthadox Choice Scarf addition placed on an unusual candidate, or Focus Sash - these are just a few examples of how unpredictable the first few turns of a match can be.

Forgive me for my lack of imaginitive in this scenario: imagine your Breloom lead, feeling rather comfortable sleeping the opposing Metagross with Spore, only to be suprised with Metagross' item, Lum Berry, to cure Metagross of the sleep so your opponent can strike back with Meteor Mash, following up the next turn with Bullet Punch. Breloom is now out of the equation. But how do you prepare for these unexpected suprises, espescially ones which may cost you the game?

----------

It is these kind of situations that often draw the fine-line between winning and losing. Admittedly, most of the time, when I lose a match, the fault lies within my idiocy within the first few turns of a match.

Which leads me to ask this question:

How do we maximize the chances of preventing the opponent from gaining the advantage by utilizing our leads to attain complete control of the match?

Following on from the previous question, present to us your lead which accomplishes such a goal. Feel free to display and analyze your leads you have created to ensure you're almost guaranteed immediate control.

Discuss!

[Edit: Cleaned up some of the typos]
 
Well to answer your question, quite obviously you would use a lead that covers as many bases as it can. Focus Sash is quite useful, but is negated by SS which is a problem. Baton Passers are often good candidates for the lead, and so are scarf users. The one poke that can best do what it is meant to do is IMMUNE to SS with a Focus Sash, and can set up SR or chase away the other lead. I am talking about Aerodactyl of course.
 
Pokemon
@ Focus Sash
-Taunt
-Fake Out
-Filler
-Filler

Fake Out can scout most leads. With the exceptions of Pokemon that have Inner Focus. Protect could be a nice alternative but breaking your opponents probable Sash is of greater value. Ghost types are immune to Fake Out unless your lead is Kangaskahn.

Taunt is a very valuable move in itself. I'm not going to go into much detail but it is a very handy move.

The last 2 moves should benefit the team in some manner. Either by setting up entry hazards, inflicting status, or simply incapacitate a Pokemon.
 
Yes but sashed deo, is faster than tyranitar, and hippowdon for that matter. It can taunt, preventing the other person from doing set up moves. Focus sash guarantees you getting in at least one move. Stealth rock, spikes, the screens, can all be set up. It also gets a recovery move, a move raising both defenses, and a wide move pool of attacks. You can easily include an attack in your move set to deal with a specific lead.
However seeing as how deo faces the mighty ban hammer, all this may come to an end lol
 
I don't think you can ever completely control a match unless you have Skarmory and the other guy has Tauros, Staraptor, Beedrill etc.

Anyway, I'm not really too sure how to answer the question. The goal of my lead is usually just to be a useless and do a single thing. For example, my useless Mewtwo lead in ubers has protect, self destruct, will-o-wisp, thunder wave @ focus sash. Protect is mostly to waste Water Spout PP as well as any other attack. Darkrai gets paralyzed before shutting out Mewtwo with dark void, after which, I now don't have to worry about Darkrai putting anything else to sleep. Tyranitar leads kill me but at the cost of being burned. Of course there are a bunch of other possibilities but as long as my lead can do at least 1 or 2 useful things, I'm happy. Hell I remember one match were that Mewtwo did nothing at all except paralyze a Latios in the first turn (taking a draco meteor) then came back on the second to last turn and exploded on Blissey allowing me to win the match in the next turn 1-0.
 
i have used 3 leads in my career(lol)

the first one:
Tyranitar @ Lum Berry
Sassy
240 HP/38 Atk/48 Def/184 SpDef
-Stone Edge
-Fire Punch
-Thunderbolt
-Crunch

It is very similar to a Jumpman suggested lead, I think his TTar was to Dragon Dance on get go and then Crunch lead Azelfs/Gengars

however, that lead was very very good, some things it did were:
1. Lum Berry lets it take a Hypnosis, back when it was 80 percent accurate. It then proceeds to Crunch Gengar, Fire Punch Bronzong, Stone Edge Yanmega, etc
2. Sandstream + Sassy +240 HP/184 SpDef let it survive every Focus Blast from Gengar/Grass Knot from Azelf, and OHKO with Crunch. Focus Sash doesnt stand a chance
3. Thunderbolt gets the jump on Skarmory switchins, also prevents Gyarados from setting up on you.

It also called upon a sandstorm for Garchomp back when it was allowed, although i have since removed TTar as my lead because without Garchomp Sandstorm hurts more than it helps

my next 2 leads both involved DeoxysS

then i used LO lead deoxysS, with Bolt Beam, SuperPower and Shadow Ball to beat lead Gengar/Azelf, prevent things from setting up and Superpower Ttar/Weavile leads
This was back on my team where it was all offensive and Deoxys was best suited for a lead, but i didnt work so well

now I use dual screen Deoxys because it lets me Taunt some other slow SR users, but now with 3 billion pokemon getting TrickScarfs, most notably Azelf, it doesnt work too well

Im still thinking about wats the best lead in the current Metagame,

In summary, my first 2 leads have acted in a way to get the immediate advantage by offensively conquering opposing leads, and Screen Deoxys helps me set up for the midgame
 

Chou Toshio

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There are a great number of leads, and no one of them is "perfect." In other words, whether or not your lead gets a favorable match or not is almost completely luck, and the very first turn is the one most like rock-paper-scizors of the whole game.

To me, the important thing in a lead is making sure it can gain you some form of advantage in almost any situation. Most other players also realize this, and thus leads to the popularization of intimidate/weather leads whose ability nets them immediate adantage, as well as the infamous suicide leads and even bulky set up leads. Also the reason for fake-out leads, albeit these are more popular in UU (though fake-out infernape is starting to appear in OU as well).
 
This is my lead, it does OK. The best thing about it as that it kills those Azelf leads before they can do anything (removing the need for taunt) and Deoxys-E at most gets to set up Stealth Rock.

Weavile @ Life Orb
Jolly
252 ATK 252 Spe 6 SpD

Fake Out
Ice Shard
Pursuit
Brick Break

A combination of Fake Out, Pursuit, Brick Break, Ice Shard takes out a Deoxys-E that elects to set up both screens before it can set up Stealth Rock, and if they go for only Reflect, then they set up Stealth Rock only. Do damage calculations if you do not believe me. I find it quite humorous that these people start off the match 5-6 just for Stealth Rocks, and if they use Azelf, they gain nothing. I set up Stealth Rocks soon after, and I still have Weavile here to revenge kill Salamence and Gengar.

Azelf leads can't even move before dying. Aerodactyl usually dies to Fake Out + Ice Shard.
 
I used Anti-Lead Weavile (without Counter) for a while, and it worked very well. Fake Out is great on a lead. It screws up Focus Sash users.

On my current team (in the testing phase), I'm using a Choice Scarf+Trick Alakazam.

EDIT: The Weavile is the same as skiddle's (except with Focus Sash).
 
shaymin-s @ choice scarf
Modest, 252 Satk, 252 Spe
~ seed flare
~ air slash
~ hp ice
~ earth power

beats nearly every lead, namely dual screen deoxys-s (you have a chance for an OHKO with seed flare, and otherwise you do like 97%, so oftentimes when they try leading with lightscreen they only get one screen up and no sr, which is absolutely wonderful for offensive teams with stuff like mence and zapdos) and scarfgar (this thing hits like 529 speed, just enough). air slash flinches the enemy while breaking their sash, 2HKOing sashed azelfs and infernapes. aerodactly gets 2HKOed by seed flare (sash ]]=) aswell, but usually they try rockslide to get a free kill. metagross is a lead this guy doesn't like aswell. tyranitar just barely lives seed flare unfortunately, so you're better off switching to some bulky fighting type to absorb the stone edge or fire blast. but what I like about this thing is that it really dents anything that switches in, so you can actually use that favourable matchup, and even if you don't predict perfectly, you're not that badly off.

so yea, scarf skymin. give it a try.

edit: yay me! scarf skymin beats every lead so far except for skiddles!
 
I'm quite enjoying Choice Scarf Azelf. U-Turn/Explosion/Fire Blast/Trick

Most expect you to have a focus sash, which gives you an advantage. Give you enough EVs to OHKO Metagross and 2HKO Bronzong with Fire Blast, EVs enough to 3HKO Tyranitar, 2HKO Weavile and Deoxy-S, and you've got a good lead/revenge killer.

Trick screwes Blissey switch ins, and Explosion is always nice.
 
gengar@choice scarf
trick
hypnosis
shadow ball
focus blast

turn one, ruin any set up (lots of sashed suicide leads) by tricking scarf onto one, giving me a focus sash bonus to boot, turn 2 unlocked from scarf i can use hypnosis, also helps as blissey sometimes comes in on a predicted shadow ball only to be tricked.
Deoxys-e is made useless if it stays out, if it isn;t another key poke is crippled, or of course i can use the scarf to sleep anything.
 
Trickscarf Gengar really only has trouble with Tyranitar leads, from my experience (Scarf Deo-S to a lesser extent). Focus Blast won't always OHKO, even if it hits, and pursuit and crunch are both OHKOs (thus making switching a risky proposition - is he EVd to take an FB? is he counting on FB to miss? is he counting on me to switch?) Aside from that, it really surprises Dual-Screen Deoxys by outspeeding and OHKOing (mostly because people prefer to lead with Focus Sash Gengar instead).

This only happens with Trick/FB/Shadow Ball/Tbolt, though, and you could probably drop Tbolt for hypnosis to deal with Tyranitar but even then that's 60% accuracy, and Ttar could have Lum...
 
I used to have Focus Sash but the only way of preventing Azelf from setting up Stealth Rock besides Taunting it is to kill it right away, and without a Life Orb you can't do that.
 
I used to use this as my lead. Its a twist on the spiker set.

Deoxys-S@Focus Sash
Jolly
252 atk, 252 speed, 6 hp
-Taunt
-Spikes
-Stealth Rock
-Superpower

Pretty self explanatory, gets down entry hazards for lots of residual damage later. Superpower is invaluable for catching ttar leads or switch ins off guard. I stopped using it because I got tired of speed ties with other Deoxys.
 
Azelf @ Choice Scarf
- U-turn
- Trick
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion

Almost always gets the job done, the worst it could do is get pursuited but that doesn't happen often, however even if you U-Turn on pursuit shoddy doesn't let U-Turn hit, which I think is a glitch...
 
Bogmire, I think I just battled you a few hours ago.

Anyway, I used Night Slash on the Weavile, as the threat of Pursuit is sometimes enough.
 

Chou Toshio

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This is my lead, it does OK. The best thing about it as that it kills those Azelf leads before they can do anything (removing the need for taunt) and Deoxys-E at most gets to set up Stealth Rock.

Weavile @ Life Orb
Jolly
252 ATK 252 Spe 6 SpD

Fake Out
Ice Shard
Pursuit
Brick Break

A combination of Fake Out, Pursuit, Brick Break, Ice Shard takes out a Deoxys-E that elects to set up both screens before it can set up Stealth Rock, and if they go for only Reflect, then they set up Stealth Rock only. Do damage calculations if you do not believe me. I find it quite humorous that these people start off the match 5-6 just for Stealth Rocks, and if they use Azelf, they gain nothing. I set up Stealth Rocks soon after, and I still have Weavile here to revenge kill Salamence and Gengar.

Azelf leads can't even move before dying. Aerodactyl usually dies to Fake Out + Ice Shard.
Maybe a expert belt? I don't like taking recoil off of low base power poves.
 

McGrrr

Facetious
is a Contributor Alumnus
In my opinion, the relative value of a lead Pokemon was defined by its ability to induce a switch on turn one. This immediately secures the initiative for your team because you are able to:

1) Scout and...
2) Draw inferences and...
3) Draw first blood or...
4) Setup

By extension, a good lead induces a switch more often than it is forced to switch itself; and an ideal lead will always induce a switch. This was true until somebody invented stealth rock.

Since the edge offered by setting up stealth rock turn one is so great, it is easily more useful than merely inducing a switch. One can therefore conclude that the ideal lead will have stealth rock and always induce a switch.
 
I have a question for my Spiritomb lead.

He has:

-Sucker Punch
-Taunt
-Shadow Sneak/Pursuit
-Will-o-wisp/Hypnosis

What do you think would be the most beneficial as the last moves? Shadow Sneak could be used against entry hazards and Trick users, but if I predict a Trick I should be switching to my scarfed pokemon anyway.

I'm also probably going to stick with Will-o-wisp on account of Hypnosis getting its accuracy lowered.
 
I use the following Gallade:

Gallade @ Lum Berry
Jolly
232 Spd, 224 Atk, 56 HP

Swords Dance
Ice Punch
Close Combat
Shadow Sneak

EVs/nature put me one point above all non scarftran, and above all tran if i receive a scarf through my opponent's trickery. This packs enough power to OHKO bronzong with CC after a swords dance, and will often tear down 2+ of the opponent's pokemon before meeting his demise. Also, this tends to outspeed Zapdos which tend to like to switch in on him, and can easily 2hko w/ ice punch and absorbs a t-wave easily due to lum berry. all in all, this is a great wall breaker style lead.
 
I like to do as much damage as I can starting right off the gate.

This is what I'm using right now

Magmortar-Choice Scarf
Modest
EV spread: 252 special attack/252 speed/6 hp
Fire Blast
Hidden Power Ice
Thunderbolt
Focus Blast

This set has been working pretty well for me. It outspeeds and OHKOs a lot of common pokemon such as non-scarfed Shaymin-S, Gyrados, Bronzong and non-scarfed Gengar. Bronzong is forced to switch out or die. Focus Blast also wrecks Heatran switch ins. Deoxys-S has been a problem though...
 

Legacy Raider

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This is one of the leads that I've been testing recently:

Lv 1 Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Hasty - Own Tempo
252 Atk, 252 Spe

- Spore
- Endeavor
- Extremespeed
- Stealth Rock

This Smeargle is extremely fun. It takes a good deal of prediction to use but with the right moves I can incapacitate most opposing leads and gain the advantage in the battle. It has a lot of difficulty with Substitute users and Lum Berry users, and you need a good sleep absorber for the Roserade leads, but apart from that it can give me the advantage in almost every battle.

I've been thinking about putting Encore / Snatch / Magic Coat over Extremespeed, just to deal with Sleep and Sub leads. Anyone got any opinions on whether I should, and if yes then with what?

EDIT: Oh and if the Focus Sash is intact, it makes a great revenge killer for Salamence locked in Outrage =).

LR.
 
I think you should put magic coat over stealth rock and shadow sneak over extreme speed. After an endeavor, you only need to do one damage to kill, so extreme-speed's extra damage is worthless, while shadow sneak's extra coverage is much more valuable. Magic coat seems much more useful than sr, unless you can snatch screens (I don't think so). Also, how on earth does this handle taunt leads?

I've used a cb t-tar with sleep talk to some success as a lead. It becomes an all purpose status absorber if slept, takes out focus sashes and can play pursuit/crunch mindgames with scarf-gar, deoxys and azelf. Fears metagross and infernape. Doesn't really mind choice-scarfs.

This is one of the leads that I've been testing recently:

Lv 1 Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Hasty - Own Tempo
252 Atk, 252 Spe

- Spore
- Endeavor
- Extremespeed
- Stealth Rock

This Smeargle is extremely fun. It takes a good deal of prediction to use but with the right moves I can incapacitate most opposing leads and gain the advantage in the battle. It has a lot of difficulty with Substitute users and Lum Berry users, and you need a good sleep absorber for the Roserade leads, but apart from that it can give me the advantage in almost every battle.

I've been thinking about putting Encore / Snatch / Magic Coat over Extremespeed, just to deal with Sleep and Sub leads. Anyone got any opinions on whether I should, and if yes then with what?

EDIT: Oh and if the Focus Sash is intact, it makes a great revenge killer for Salamence locked in Outrage =).

LR.
 
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