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On a side note if Gligar gets banned after I'm done laddering, does that null whatever rank I get? I'm using one on my team and I just want to make sure that's ok :/
On a side note if Gligar gets banned after I'm done laddering, does that null whatever rank I get? I'm using one on my team and I just want to make sure that's ok :/
Pokemon Showdown Username: Perspicacious(Alt, when I create it, will be DarkHorse0623) Dark Horse Pokemon: Wailmer and Inkay I am not finding it very useful, switching to Grimer
Screenshot of Ladder Ranking:
Full Team Importable:
Pokemon Showdown Username: AceHorseThing Dark Horses: Mantyke and Nosepass (Don't judge) Ladder Ranking:
Goddamnit! 69 GXE! Showdown loves to troll with me and they could not have chosen a better number ;_;. I feel that I definitely could have gotten 70+ if I spent just a little bit more time teambuilding, oh well. Got it up to 70 GXE so that's a C-Rank :). I don't think I can get to 76 unless I totally rework my team which I feel I should spent more time on, oh well. Team Importable of fun:
Nosepass @ Berry Juice
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Def / 236 Atk / 36 HP
Relaxed Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunder Wave
- Ice Punch
- Stealth Rock
Mantyke @ Eviolite
Ability: Water Absorb
Level: 5
EVs: 196 SAtk / 196 SDef / 116 Def
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Air Slash
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Signal Beam
Ponyta @ Eviolite
Ability: Flame Body
Level: 5
EVs: 76 SDef / 76 Def / 252 Spd / 104 HP
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Morning Sun
- Will-O-Wisp
- Wild Charge
Mantyke
I'm going to start off with the negative. Mantyke is just not very good in the current meta. While Mantyke has amazing special bulk its typing and movepool made it not a very useful dark horse. There were honestly 2 sets I could use Restalk which is just set up fodder or just plain out attack. Mantyke's typing was pretty poor and easily exploitable by the opponent and he drew in electric attacks which i didn't really build my team to tank. Mantyke is one of those pokemon that when you use it to patch up a hole in your team it just ends up creating more holes. One the bright side Mantyke hard countered this one sun team so... that was good, but overall Mantyke just doesn't have the typing, movepool or bulk for me to considered it a useful Dark Horse. I'd give it a 5/10 on a good day, 3.5/10 on a bad one. (I mean you can use the rain dance one I guess but I don't like rain it reminds me too much of Gen V OU *shudders*.)
Nosepass
Nosepass is a phenomenal Defensive Pivot excluding recovery Nosepass has all the right tools at its disposal - a large movepool, paralysis, stealth rocks, slow volt switch - Nosepass' typing though it leaves him vulnerable to ground and fighting physical moves lets him hard wall most Murkrow variants (Except for this one weird one that was full special... for some reason XD). I feel that if Nosepass was better supported (Wish Passing mostly as its HP is only 30) on my team he would have been an incredible defensive pivot. Nosepass is a pokemon that IMO deserves consideration on many teams as its movepool and typing give a unique niche and excellent potential. Nosepass was an incredible asset 9/10 I'm definitely going to use him more in the future.
How the team work as a whole
As per the norm for my Little Cup teams this a balanced team with no set up designed to offensively and defensively deal with the opposing team right off the bat. Depending on the opposing team Mienfoo or Nosepass are my usual leads as Mienfoo lets me stop slow rock setters and generally does well against leads. If I see a fake out lead I switch to Ponyta for the awesome 30% burn chance. Nosepass while lacking in offensive presence for a lead can slow turn set rocks or cripple a fast lead on the opponents team and he's very physically bulky and with how physical the meta is right now it is an incredible asset.
Now there are a couple of weird pokemon on my team that aren't very commonly seen while Mienfoo and Ponyta are their staple sets, Misdreavus and Magnemite go for something completely different. Misdreavus is a semi-common Trickspecs set with Nasty plot as electric coverage is pretty well covered by Magnemite. My team punishes Missy's normal counters like Murkrow and Pawniard with Magnemite, Ponyta and Mienfoo.
Magnemite is a choice scarf set now at first I thought that Elekid completely outclassed Magnemite in this regard but I was wrong. Berry Juice + Recycle sets are basically mostly what people think of when they see magnemite but after my other team got murdered repeatedly by this weird magnemite that was faster than my ponyta I decided to try it for myself. Scarfnemite usually secures a surprise kill in the early game (If I'm really lucky Gligar dies from a HP ice) with good prediction and makes a great fast pivot and late game cleaner along with Missy.
Missy and Scarfnemite form a very nice offensive core as well as Missy is immune to two of magnemites biggest weaknesses.
Problems for my Team
My team has Zero priority I don't know why and I don't how I forgot priority but this team finds it very difficult to deal with fast sweepers. As you can see in one my replays I almost got completely annihilated by a agility + SD gligar while thats a really weird Gligar set it did its job in completely destroying me. This team also struggles with Stealth Rock as it packs no Defogger/Spinner yet uses two sturdy mons and two SR weak mons, the only pokemon that could have filled the niche I needed for defogger without creating more holes would have been Gligar who I'm simply just tired of using. This team also struggles to find a definitive Win Condition because I don't have any set-up mons. While this lets me be way more flexible defensively it also led to some losses simply because none of my pokemon had the power to muscle through the opponents defensive core.
Silver 4 me;
Pokemon Showdown Username: daddydarkhorse Dark Horse Pokemon: Meowth and Numel Screenshot of Ladder Ranking:
Full Team Importable:nope
Meowth (M) @ Normal Gem
Ability: Technician
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Spd / 236 Atk / 76 Def
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Covet
- U-turn
- Knock Off
Well, Meowth's role was simple - fakeout, then covet or knockoff-if matchup was bad, then u-turn. it is very fast,
and i think it did it's job really well.
MEOWTH>AIPOM ANYDAY
Numel (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Simple
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Spd / 236 SAtk / 36 Atk
Naive Nature
- Flame Charge
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Ancient Power
THE BIGGEST SURPRISE EVER.
Switch on something that cant do much to you(ferroseed comes to mind)and flamecharge.+2 speed,now you can outspeed most scarfers. ANCIENTPOWER ON SWITCH AND PRAY FOR STAT BOOST. Quite risky, but +2 everything looks wonderful. And i realized that sweeping opponent's S/A rank pokemon team with NUMEL is the most satisfying thing that ever happened to me playing Little cup.
This team is actually a community team, but since I was the one leading the teambuilding, this is pretty much my team. Anyways, the questions:
Were any of your Dark Horses very useful for your teams, did they do there job correctly and then some?
Well, I was expecting Trubbish to be absolutely horrible, especially when I saw its movepool, which is pathetic. However, Trubbish surprised me, managing to kill threatening pokemon on the other team, such as Pawniard. Trubbish is just really a surprise pokemon, but its really cool and with the right support, a sweep is possible. This is the best performance of Trubbish I've recorded: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/lc-85197330
Nosepass was amazing, it sets up Rocks very well, and a slow Volt Switch is amazing for one of my other pokes to come in. It also walls 2 pokes that could instantly destroy this team, Murkrow and Fletchling. Overall, Nosepass is a very good defensive pivot, and it takes even Super-Effective Hits like a boss.
Did you have any challenges in your way for creating a team out of not so common pokemon? Any key roles for a team that weren't covered by underrated threats?
Well, my defensive pivot is a rock, while my Revenge Killer is a piece of trash, so you can expect some problems. 2 threats especially that I would have trouble with are Chinchou and Pawniard, Chinchou hitting my team hard with Scald and Volt Switch, and pivoting out of situations so I can be in a bad position again. Pawniard just destroys things if Timburr is not around, especially since my team has stat lowering moves, ie Icy Wind and Defog. However, Timburr dealt with both fairly well.
Rate your dark horses from 1-10. How useful were they? Would you use this pokemon again? Why?
Trubbish deserves a 6 imo. It wasn't amazing, but it got the job done at the right times. As the revenge killer on the team, it was pretty useful in those dangerous situations. Honestly, Trubbish is pretty outclassed compared to OU LC, so I would not use it in OU LC. However, I could definitely use it if I make a LC UU team.
Nosepass deserves a freaking 9. The amounts of hits this guy can take is insane. A reliable answer to Murkrow, Fletchling, and everything that doesn't have a SE move. A slow Volt Switch just puts it over the top. I would use it any day. Nosepass definitely deserves its spot in the Hall of Fame.
And that, ladies and Gentlemen, is how Trash and a Rock can get you to A-Rank. I really hope especially Nosepass gets noticed. It's really cool :)
#TMNT+MM for those who understand
blaraedit: Defog Murkrow is illegal with Prankster.
Congrats on Shaymin for making it to A rank! I will update main post to have nosepass as a notable dark horse, since it has made it on hall of fame now more than once.
Pokemon Showdown Username: olah Dark Horse Pokemon: Lickitung, Frillish, Grimer, Machop, Zigzagoon, Aron Screenshot of Ladder Ranking:
76 GXE so B rank for now, but I'll probably play a bit more with it. Full Team Importable (in hide tags please):
Lickitung @ Eviolite
Ability: Own Tempo
Level: 5
EVs: 36 SAtk / 236 Def / 196 HP
Relaxed Nature
- Ice Beam
- Knock Off
- Wish
- Protect
Aron @ Berry Juice
Ability: Rock Head
Level: 5
EVs: 196 SDef / 116 Def / 196 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Head Smash
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
Will describe my choices later once I've played with the team a bit.
EDIT1: Jesus Christ I just had an enormous edit that got entirely deleted because the forums fucking logged me out.
EDIT2:
Well I'll try this again.
In my previous attempt at this, I talked about my team building process, but fuck that. Here's my assessment of my dark horses, from worst to best:
6) Grimer: Grimer definitely played an important role on my team (it was sort of my "glue," plus it was the only poke on my team that could switch into common Knock Off users). Unfortunately, I found it mostly underwhelming. It doesn't resist Knock Off, so it gets worn down a little too easily with no recovery (Pain Split is too unreliable, especially with Grimer's speed). Shadow Sneak is useful priority, but it's not STAB. And just in general, Grimer is too easy to switch in on: Poison typing sucks offensively and Ice Punch/Fire Punch are just too weak. Grade: 5/10
5) Aron: Aron was incredibly important in some matches. It saved my ass from BD Swirlix on multiple occasions, it was a useful answer to LO Murkrow, and it provide Stealth Rock support, which was great when I found myself switching between Lickitung and Frillish without doing much damage. Unfortunately, it was dead weight a little too frequently. Since I was using Rock Head instead of Sturdy because Aron needs the extra power from Head Smash, there were some matches where Aron couldn't switch into any of my opponent's pokes. 4x weaknesses to Ground and Fighting plus a 2x weakness to Water is pretty terrible. Grade: 6/10
4) Lickitung: At this point, we know the drill when it comes to Lickitung. Bulky as fuck (mine had 28/27/21 defenses with Eviolite, only took 50% from max attack Adamant Mienfoo, and it's still bulky without Eviolite), but hardly any offensive presence to speak of. It was a pretty effective answer to Gligar. I was idiotically using Flamethrower for a while, but once I started using Knock Off, Lickitung was much more useful. It's a little weak for my tastes (it's just too scary to use when you've got Scraggy and Swirlix around), but it's definitely worth considering on serious teams. As long as you're ready for set up pokes, Lickitung's absurd bulk and Knock Off certainly make it worth using. Grade: 8/10
3) Frillish: Frillish definitely didn't appreciate the Knock Off buff, as it can no longer counter Fighting types as it once did. However, it is still excellent at spreading burn, which is great with all of the prominent physical attackers in LC. Thanks to Will-o-Wisp and Cursed Body, Frillish can beat a ton of pokes one on one (most hilariously Scarf Chinchou). If you can get rid of the things that beat it (and there aren't as many as you think), Frillish can outlast whole teams. In quite a few of my battles, Frillish finished off my opponent's last three pokes all by itself. Here are some notable pokes that Frillish handles fairly well: Meditite, Gligar, Tirtouga, Dwebble, Shellder, Ponyta, Larvesta, Munchlax, Fletchling, Bunnelby, Honedge, Archen, weirdly Chinchou. It can even lure and burn those physical attackers it doesn't beat (e.g. Murkrow, Pawniard), and it has Shadow Ball for the special attackers that threaten it. Frillish managed to burn at least 2 pokes in most of my matches, so it more than pulled its weight. Knock Off hurts its viability a bit, but Frillish is definitely still worth considering as part of a defensive core. Grade: 8/10
2) Machop: Machop was the MVP of the team (Zigzagoon was the best, but without Machop's consistent offense it would've had a rough time). DynamicPunch is just an amazing move thanks to 100 BP and the confusion side effect. If confusion hits, you can 2HKO tons of pokes (including Sturdy users!). It works great with a Scarf set, because 50% of the time you get to switch out for free. And it generally makes your opponent uncomfortable about setting up or using an offensive poke. To top it off, Machop gets solid coverage with Knock Off and Ice Punch, which allows it to hit its biggest adversaries (Misdreavus, Gligar, Slowpoke) super effectively. I often used Machop as a lead and tried to get rid of Misdreavus/Gligar early on so I could spam DynamicPunch late. Machop can also prevent hazards from being set up thanks to DynamicPunch's confusion. Machop was basically my only consistent offensive option, and the team only worked because he was so good. Machop doesn't have the utility of Mienfoo/Timburr/Croagunk, but its scarf set is an excellent offensive option on a serious team. Grade: 9/10
1) Zigzagoon: Zigzagoon was amazing. There were so many battles when I looked at my opponent's and thought "the only way for me to win is a Zigzagoon sweep," and it shocked me how often it worked out. Just get rid of the things that can take a +6 ExtremeSpeed and you're golden. Even if you fail to do that, Zigzagoon can still sweep thanks to Thief. Machop was a particularly useful teammate, since Machop could Knock Off and eliminate Misdreavus and DynamicPunch's confusion sometimes gave Zigzagoon a free Belly Drum. Zigzagoon could set up on plenty of pokes though (I probably set up most frequently on Gligar and Chinchou). ExtremeSpeed's +2 priority is a godsend. Once set up, even HazeKrow isn't stopping it. Seriously, Zigzagoon is great. People should absolutely use it seriously. Grade: 10/10
The team as a whole had several issues. First and most importantly, it had no Volt Switch or U-turn, which was a big problem. It was also extremely Scraggy weak, as well as somewhat weak to Meditite and Misdreavus. As I mentioned, Zigzagoon and Machop had solid offensive chemistry, but the rest of the team didn't synergize particularly well. Frillish would've formed a much better defensive core with Spritzee or Gligar. Lickitung and Grimer were decent partners, but Lickitung would've really appreciated HazeKrow as a teammate. Grimer and Aron weren't really supported well enough to be particularly effective. I could've definitely used more offensive firepower instead of just praying for Zigzagoon to sweep.
I actually began this last night, using the alt "lclinch" with a team of Lickitung/Frillish/Grimer/Machop/Zigzagoon/Purrloin. I was using a gimmicky Purrloin set, so I replaced it with DIglett before settling on Aron. Often when I use LC UU pokes, I feel like I have to thoroughly outplay my opponent in order to beat standard teams. With these teams, I went 42-8 between two nights, without feeling like I was really outplaying my opponents. So I really think a few of these pokes are worth some usage.
tl;dr: Zigzagoon is awesome, Machop is very good too. Lickitung and Frillish should be considered more for defensive roles.
Congratulations Unitard very good job! Zigzagoon is now a notable dark horse too n_n. It's very impressive to do this with 6 dark horses lol. And I'm very happy with all of the activity so far this month! Keep it up <3
Silver for now. Perhaps I'll get gold later. The Dark Horses I used were Riolu and Helioptile.
Were any of your Dark Horses very useful for your teams, did they do there job correctly and then some?
Riolu is just plain fun to use. Prankster Copycat makes it the best revenge killer in the meta. Riolu's huge move pool also takes advantage of that fact. You never know what a riolu user is going to pull out of his sleeve. Drain Punch? Poison Jab? Ice Punch? Crunch? Blaze Kick? You name it. The only set back is having to choose 3 of them to work with. I ran drain punch for stab, ice punch for gligar, and crunch for ghosts. This gave Riolu trouble with fairies, which is why I also ran koffing. Slap on a focus sash for 2x the fun and Riolu's set! Grade: 8/10
Helioptile was decent. When I encountered a team with a ground type, especially gligar and wooper, I took precaution and saved Helioptile for the end. However, when Ground types were absent, Helioptile made an excellent scarfed volt switcher. Helioptile was also able to switch into water types and ghost types thanks to dry skin and normal typing, and then retaliate with volt switch or dark pulse respectively. However, Ground types were quite annoying, though Helioptile's surf did help bridge the gap. I also think that if Helioptile was a bit more powerful, it could be a possible sweeper. Grade: 6/10
Chinchou@ Choice Scarf
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 52 Def / 232 SAtk / 224 Spd
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
Poliwag@Berry Juice
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 196 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SDef / 196 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Waterfall
- Return
- Hypnosis
The goal was Dark Horse but also building a decent LC rain team. I'm sure I could that better and helps and suggestions are welcome (write on my Smogon's profile if you want, so we can work togheter on it). Mantike is a good rain setter and good special defense and swift swim is the "theme" of rainy weather. I choice Sub and Eviolite to preserve Mantyke as possible (the first to prevent TW or Toxic), I don't understand if is better Damp Rock. However I think his usage is too rare. He's a decent pokemon IMHO. Poliwag is the rain sweeper. Thanks to Berry Juice you could try to look for a safe switch and do Belly Drum. Of course priorities are his enemies, but STAB Waterfall and Return are dangerous moves, Hypnosis is useful (even if only with 60% accuracy) to stop a possible counter/checker.
Then, I choose Murkrow like Prankster-Rain Dancer (but I have choosen Berry Juice for him, not Damp Rock too), then a scarf Chinchou and a Croagunk with Dry Skin and 2 priorities. Then I would another coverage vs Electric-type, a good pokemon too. Therefore, it was too easy pick a Gligar and integrate rain team.
Gligar is always useful in every team....
Ah I apologize you're right Koffing is a dark horse as well. I used Koffing as a surefire counter to Swirlix, able to take a +6 return no matter what. It also helped destroy any physical sweeper with will o wisp. I could also switch from helioptile to koffing if I was in fear of a ground type attack. Overall Koffing is amazing and I'm surprised it isn't OU. The only thing it has trouble with is special attackers and meditite. For Special attackers I have Porygon, and for Meditite I have Gligar and Vullaby. Rating: 7/10
Pokemon Showdown Username: amber91! Dark Horse Pokemon: Charmander, Petilil Screenshot of Ladder Ranking: http://i.imgur.com/0VYPiGk.png Full Team Importable (in hide tags please):
Charmander (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Solar Power
Level: 5
EVs: 44 HP / 12 Def / 200 SAtk / 236 Spd
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Ancient Power
- Dragon Pulse
Pawniard (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Defiant
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 196 Spd / 76 Atk / 156 HP / 36 Def / 36 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Brick Break
Charmander is, to my disappointment, not the ultimate sun sweeper. It doesn't quite OHKO everything without Stealth Rock, Life Orb, or Specs, and it is pretty frail. However, it's still a good revenge killer, a devastating nuke if it is able to come in with sun up, and has a pretty nasty late-game sweep if all the priority users are dead (which didn't happen often :C). I'd give it a 6/10, it's deliciously powerful but SO FRAIL, and I don't have proper switches for everything because it's a weather team.
Petilil is amazing. Healing Wish means you're playing 7v6 (or 6v6 I guess, Vulpix is kind of awful), Solarbeam hits pretty hard, and Sleep Powder sleeps stuff. I also really appreciate that it resists Ground, because it means that Petilil has better synergy with Vulpix than Bulbasaur, Oddish, or Bellsprout. 9/10, best non-Hoppip Chlorophyll mon.
This team struggled to deal with Flying-types, particularly Mixkrow and Fletchling. I could Fake Out both of them to death, and sleep + HP Fire them with Petilil if sun was up, and Gligar could speed tie Murkrow and tank Fletchling's attacks, but those are all pretty shaky. Also Gligar was pretty annoying too, I'm just really good at winning speed ties. Also sand teams, fuck Brightpowder.
EDIT: LOL JUST CAUGHT THAT PETILIL'S EVS WERE WRONG
So I continued to use my team from before and managed to get A rank:
After playing some slightly more competitive teams, I felt the need to update the grades slightly:
6) Grimer (5/10) - I was a little tempted to bump it up because Shadow Sneak saved my ass so many times. Still underwhelming though.
5) Frillish (6/10) - Frillish got a lot harder to use once I started facing teams that used Meditite with Thunder Punch. It still managed to burn a lot of things, but I got scared of switching it in on Meditite, which really reduced its usefulness. Still worth considering, but it really needs to be able to take advantage of its Fighting and Normal resistances, which is a lot harder if more Meditite run Thunder Punch (which is probably about to happen all the time).
4) Aron (7/10) - Aron was way more useful once I started seeing more of Swirlix (I saw Swirlix like 75% of the time in the last 24 matches). The ability to counter both Murkrow and Swirlix is just amazing. Also, Head Smash hits hard as hell. Since Swirlix is probably not going to be around soon and I benefited from not running into a single team with Mienfoo (no idea why), I'm leaving Aron at 7, but it was way more valuable than that in my last 24 matches.
3) Lickitung (9/10) - The more I used it with Knock Off, the better it was. Its best trait is its versatility. It can't beat Gligar AND Misdreavus AND Murkrow all in one match because it gets worn down, but it can bring down at least one of them. You can sort of cater your use of Lickitung to the situation. It gave me some hax resistance against Swirlix too, because it could take a hit from BD and finish it off with Ice Beam. Wish support was great for Machop, who can take some hits and really likes being able to switch in.
2) Machop (9/10) - I'm almost tempted to bump it up to 10. A little haxy but awesome. Singlehandedly won me so many matches. And the only thing that could save me from Scraggy's wrath.
1) Zigzagoon (10/10) - Still amazing.
Pokemon Showdown Username: Trubbish's Shaymin Dark Horse Pokemon: Trubbish, Nosepass Screenshot of Ladder Ranking: Full Team Importable (in hide tags please):
My last team had Defog + Prankster Murkrow, which I didn't realize, but I admitted to knowing Prankster + Defog Murkrow was illegal anyways, so my previous rank was nullified .-.
Literally, the only difference between this team and last team was I replaced Defog with Tailwind .-.