Team Red Sun (ranked #1 on PS)

[locoghoul]

Red Sun
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Hi, just when I was testing my first sand team (was pretty bad imo) I discovered the Smogon server almost empty on PO. After hearing the PS news, decided to give it a try with what I feel most comfortable: a sun team. This time instead of going HO or balanced offense I went with a stallish sun team, as odd as that sounds. It did pretty well although I don't think I tested it too much. But the problem with PS is that by the time you get into top 5, getting a battle takes too long so I'm trying different teams with other alts now.

PS ranking #1

TEAM REVIEW

The Behemoth @ Leftovers
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 112 Def / 100 SpDef / 40 Spd
Careful Nature (+SpDef, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Groudon sets up the sun and acts as a physical tank. RestTalk set gives it durability so that I win the weather war. SpDef EVs allows me to tank non-STAB Ice Beams if needed to. Speed EVs so that I win against other 90-based-speed phazers (Groudon, Dialga, Kyogre, Giratina). I only use him as a lead if I see a possible Kyogre lead not only to scout the set (scarf or not) but to make the Tentacruel switch smoother. If I see a Darkrai I also lead with him and go for Sleep Talk. Notice that if SR is not up I can't touch Rayquaza with him.

Mandingo @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 144 HP / 252 Atk / 16 SpDef / 96 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpAtk)
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Earthquake

My favorite Uber for sure. Ho-Oh is so great that even in a meta with Kyogre and SR everywhere, it still manhandles teams by itself. Max attack for obvious reasons, I decided to try EQ over Sub since I can't abuse Pressure now and so far it's been kinda useless. I'm thinking of Flame Charge or Tailwind although Tailwind doesn't really help my other members that much and even with a +1 Spe, I'd get outsped by any other scarfer.

Prometheus @ Black Sludge
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpDef / 8 Spd
Calm Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam
- Toxic Spikes
- Scald

One of my MVPs. Keys to a weather war are to keep pressure and keep your weather summoner alive. All of the weather starters are weak to Toxic Spikes. All of them. CroOgre is almost non-existant now because of the sleep mechanics. Monoattacker Kyogre is easy to deal with if you cancel the rain and the ChestoRest set is not very common (plus it is also manageable with 3 phazers). I've seen TTars using Lum Berry but that only protects them from one switch in. Scald helps with lucky burns and Ice Beam is for Dragons. If I see a Deoxys-S I lead with this guy, at the very worst is a 50/50 game so you just have to predict correctly.

Girotina (Giratina) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 212 SDef / 44 Spd
Careful Nature (+SpDef, -SAtk)
- Roar
- Sleep Talk
- Rest
- Dragon Tail

Girotina is my spinblocker and my second Kyogre resist. Ice Beam from Timid Kyogre is a 3HKO at best while resisted attacks are sponged by this beast. It is also somewhat of a check to Mewtwo and it can stall scarf Palkia as Spacial Rend doesn't 2HKO (given that it doesn't crit). Roar and Dragon Tail work fine together because otherwise Taunt would shut me down and Roar goes through Lugia's, Excadrill's and Ho-Oh's substitutes. Also, the speed EVs let me "speed" shuffle if I'm asleep. I have prevented hazards to be spun away even from a team with both Excadrill and Kabutops on it.

Tony Stark @ Iron Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / / 60 SpDef /120 Spd
Calm Nature (+SpDef, -Atk)
- Recover
- Perish Song
- Judgment
- Stealth Rock

Finally, completing my defensive core, my dragon resist. Probably the best steel in the game, not only it supports better overall (not only defensive) stats than Jirachi, Forretress, Registeel and Bronzong (all semi-usable defensive steel pokes in GenIV) but it has Recover, something most defensive steels lack. Stealth Rock is key and I usually try to set up in the first 3 turns. Even with all the phazing, last set up pokes could be trouble if they are immune to poison or they have Lum Berry or Rest. Perish Song helps in those cases and also lets me deal with the ShellPass teams that plague the PO server (they use Spore Ingrain ShellPass Smeargles nowadays).

Rocko @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Turboblaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Fusion Flare
- Dragon Pulse

I usually don't like scarfers but, on a sun team, I think scarf Kyurem-W is better than scarf Reshiram as it outspeeds 90 based scarfers (Reshiram risks a speed tie against scarfOgre), has more SpAtk and has that sweet Ice STAB. You could maybe say why not scarf Palkia instead, personally I think Ice>Water as STAB and I also wanted to try it out. I rarely use him unless I have to. I try to bring him as a late game cleaner. I've also not used DM that much and I've considered replacing it with something else.

THREATS

- Ho-Oh: The biggest threat for a sun team is always Ho-Oh. With Regenerator is even more annoying than in GenIV. I just try to phaze it until he is in the range of a Draco Meteor.
- Rayquaza: For some reason this guy has drop in usage (from what I've seen at least), even when it is still very dangerous. Both the mixed set and the DD set can dent my team if I don't predict correctly.
- Mewtwo: Girotina is my best answer. I honestly just try to stall him a little bit so that poison damage racks up, then phaze or sac/revenge with Kyurem-W.
- Tentacruel: Ruins my TS fun. I try to predict him and double switch into Ho-Oh. Girotina kinda weakens him with Dragon Tails.
- Forretress: TS is not a problem for this team (only Kyurem-W is weak to them) but Spikes and SR are. I usually go for Girotina so that they think I'll spinblock him everytime. Midgame I play more aggressively and start double switching or just plain switching Ho-Oh or Kyurem-W into him.


FINAL COMMENTS

Changes I've thought:

- Make Groudon Impish and give Rock Slide over Roar (Stone Edge sucks)
- Give Ho-Oh Whirlwind instead of EQ
- Change Kyurem-W to Hasty and give it Outrage instead of Draco Meteor

I'd appreciate any constructive criticism. If you have any questions, let me know.

Importable team

Behemoth (Groudon) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 100 SDef / 112 Def / 40 Spd / 4 Atk
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

Mandingo (Ho-Oh) @ Life Orb
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 144 HP / 16 SDef / 96 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Sacred Fire
- Earthquake

Prometheus (Tentacruel) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 8 Spd / 248 HP / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam
- Toxic Spikes
- Scald

Girotina (Giratina) @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 212 SDef / 44 Spd
Careful Nature
- Roar
- Sleep Talk
- Rest
- Dragon Tail

Tony Stark (Arceus) @ Iron Plate
Trait: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Spd / 60 SDef
Calm Nature
- Recover
- Perish Song
- Judgment
- Stealth Rock

Rocko (Kyurem-White) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Turboblaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Fusion Flare
- Dragon Pulse

 

[iiTsFirefly112]

I fought this team on the masser on PS and got to say, Giratina is a monster... Double phazing was nearly impossible to break through. Good rmt :) oh! Also, i was the guy with kabutops and excadrill, and neither of them had Rapid Spin :P

 

[alexwolf]

Why 4 Atk evs on Groudon?

 

[Jibaku]

You could maybe say why not scarf Palkia instead, personally I think Ice>Water as STAB and I also wanted to try it out.

Should be simple enough:
- Checks Groundceus, who otherwise mauls your team
- Acts as a way to damage Lugia, which your team lacks.
- Can OHKO Groudon which is pretty useful should you be up against a paradancer version or something.

Groudon's EVs seem suboptimal. You'll probably gain more from going Impish and pouring into SDef than going Careful and splitting the EVs. One thing though - why not just go with the usual SR/EQ/Stone Miss (yeah it's for Rayquaza who would otherwise survive Rock Slide after SR)/Roar with focus on defense?. It doesn't appear that your team needs to win weather wars (you still can), since it's not really weather dependent, and Arceus / Tentacruel can work in Rain. You also probably want better Ho-Oh and physical Rayquaza coverage (Mixed is covered by Ho-Oh and Steelceus to an extent). The freed SR slot on Steelceus can be used for something else, like Will-O-Wisp for general annoyance, Thunder for Kyogre, Roar for extra phazing, Calm Mind for sweeping chances, or if you're a crazy guy, Stone Edge for Ho-Oh trying to switch in xD.

@Sub on Ho-Oh. It's still great if you can keep Toxic Spikes on the field because you can still stall them out through residual damage and keep the Sub up for the next mon. Also Sub + Regen is great as you can Sub to predict a switch in, attack accordingly, and switch out with no health loss. However, you should probably keep Earthquake, because Heatran could potentially be an issue to your team without it (Tentacruel can only hold for so long...)

Keep Draco Meteor on Kyurem-W. It OHKOes Darkrai and does 88%+ to unboosted Mewtwo, which should be good enough reasons to keep it.

 

[locoghoul]

About weather wars, the thing is is not about how much my team needs sun (probably only Ho-Oh and to a lesser extent Kyurem-W), is about hindering other weather abusers. Kyogre itself is not much of a threat, but Manaphy and maybe Kingdra could be annoying if rain stays up. Same with sand, TTar is not a problem but Excadrill and sometimes a miss on Chomp is hard to deal with. I guess you are right about the EVs though, they are totally made up. If I try this again will probably change to Impish and drop some SpDef EVs. After all, I have enough specially defensive pokes already.

The reason about considering Outrage on Kyurem-W is Ho-Oh and Chansey. Not much because Chansey walls me (I'm not even sure Outrage will 2HKO and if it does, Chansey is probably not staying in for the second attack) but again the Aromatherapy, Wish, status support set is annoying.

Thanks for the feedback guys

 

[ssbbm]

yeah, imo you need either wow on giratina or arceus and you probably should use dtail on groudon. otherwise, stuff like extremekiller arceus is killing you big time because you can't really do anything to it :x

dtail is also really cool because otherwise groudon is like a free switch-in to rayquaza which is never nice /:

 

[locoghoul]

^WoW on Giratina doesn't go well with TS around. EK hasn't swept my team once (and I've played against a lot of them), I thought of WoW on Steelceus, but I'd have to give up SleepTalk on Groudon which I really like. I know Ray gives me a lot of trouble, but like I said, haven't seen many lately. Even then, I think Rock Slide on Groudon instead of Roar might work so I have something against Rayquaza and Ho-Oh. Speed shuffling on Girotina is much better than WoW, specially since I already have Ho-Oh problems.

 

[ssbbm]

also: you only have 252/ 60 / 120 on your arceus so you have 76 more evs to use!

 

[cheap_uber_battler]

Hi there Locoghoul, very nice team and congrats on the peak. Only a few things I can spot at a glance.

- I'd go with Focus Blast > Dragon Pulse as a filler on Kyurem-W. Rarely will it make a difference but it can hit Tyranitar on the switch nicely (if it hits) and you will hardly ever find yourself using Dragon Pulse over Draco Meteor or Ice Beam. I'm surprised you don't find yourself using Draco Meteor very much as I'd expect you to be revenging Mewtwo and Darkrai with it quite frequently!
- It has been pretty widely agreed that leftovers > black sludge on Tentacruel.
- You have two shufflers and your team forces a lot of switches in general but lack a spiker. I find that balanced/stallish team such as yours really struggle to rack up damage with stealth rock alone. (I know you have ts but this doesn't apply as much immediate pressure on your opponent as spike stacking.) The only possible change I could think of for that would be Forretress > Tentacruel as pretty much all other team members are indespensible. If you were to add a spiker, then I would also consider testing Roar/Whirlwind on Ho-Oh or Arceus (if you can fit stealth rock elsewere) to add more shuffling power aswell as shutting down cm lati twins with more than just the 8pp of Perish Song.
- I personally would use sub+lefties on Ho-oh on that team, especially if you use Focus Blast on Kyurem-W. Your Groudon set with reliable recovery can threaten Heatran and Kyurem can also hit it if you predict the switch.

 

[haxer321]

I happen to be number 10 on that ladder you posted, also using a team with Groudon+Ho-Oh.

In the sun, MixQuaza looks like it could ruin your team, but Kyurem-W can revenge it to an extent. Outside of Mixquaza and of course Mewtwo, this team is flawless. Watch out for Specs Kyogre as any experienced player would predict the switch to Giratina and Ice Beam. Water Spout still destroys Tentacruel. Great Team, I really have no recommendations. After all, this is a number 1 team

 

[locoghoul]

- It has been pretty widely agreed that leftovers > black sludge on Tentacruel.

Not in my personal experience. The whole "they can trick it back" argument is very farfetched in my opinion (and somewhat predictable if the situation arises).

- I personally would use sub+lefties on Ho-oh on that team, especially if you use Focus Blast on Kyurem-W. Your Groudon set with reliable recovery can threaten Heatran and Kyurem can also hit it if you predict the switch.

LO plus max attack is the best imo. It 3HKOs the most defensive Giratina, 2HKOs the most defensive Groudon and it OHKOs 4 HP Kyogre (2HKO on bulkiest Ogre). I like the subroost set but without Pressure I think a more offensive set can be used.

Watch out for Specs Kyogre as any experienced player would predict the switch to Giratina and Ice Beam. Water Spout still destroys Tentacruel. Great Team, I really have no recommendations.

Kyogre is handled with Tentacruel+Giratina. With TSpikes on, Water Spout damage is not at full. It then becomes a prediction issue on whether Kyogre is using Ice Beam, Thunder or Surf. The odds are on my side as Tenta and Tina resists two of those each. On a pinch, I can also switch Kyurem-W in, if needed. Mewtwo is always a problem and very hard to deal if Tspikes are not up. If they are I just try to pivot switch into Giratina to phaze him out as he takes poison damage each turn. If mid-late game, I can sac something and send Kyurem-W to scare him off.