Both Aegislash and Alolan Marowak take fuck all from HP Fire, and I already specified that. There's nothing relevant that's going to get lured or revenge killed by HP Fire as even the more idiotic Scizor player knows to cut losses and switch out against Tapu Lele.
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Pokémon Tapu Lele
- Thread starter HailFall
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You sure? Scizor rarely switches against me lele. Usually goes for u-turn. But I understand how troublesome those two are. I'd rather run hp ground to hit Aegislash and heatran reliably, while doing good damage against Marowak. (Though if I'm not yet locked, psyshock is better)
So how about using Psychium Z with Skill Swap?
Z-Skill Swap gives +1 speed in addition to stealing your opponent's ability, which just might be enough to pull off a lategame sweep.
BUT...
You also have the one-time option to use a 175 BP Shattered Psyche, which hits a lot harder than specs.
Z-Skill Swap gives +1 speed in addition to stealing your opponent's ability, which just might be enough to pull off a lategame sweep.
BUT...
You also have the one-time option to use a 175 BP Shattered Psyche, which hits a lot harder than specs.
Interesting thoughts. But what abilities might you see enough (that can help you sweep) to warrant skill swap? I suppose resetting psychic terrain is a nice bonus, in case it wears off, but the new ability is crucial.
Just remembered beast boost... seems like a great idea, but it'll mostly be Pheromosa, who will be hard to catch with skill swap. Celesteela is somewhat popular, Kartana has dropped in usage a lot lately. Not sure what else you'd like, other than sheer force.
That attack would be devastating. Save it for when all darks are gone. Under psychic terrain, it would deal loads even to Heatran.
Yeah, I agree that the ability you'll get will be irrelevant most times, but the reason I brought it up was more for the +1 speed.
And I guess it would be pretty good at choice-item bluffing as well.
It's certainly not the best set, but it seems fun to use. I'll try it out if/when Aegislash gets banned.
And I guess it would be pretty good at choice-item bluffing as well.
It's certainly not the best set, but it seems fun to use. I'll try it out if/when Aegislash gets banned.
I've been having most success with Twisted Spoon as my item of choice, because I feel that being locked into Psychic is not very ideal, especially when things like Hoopa and Bisharp can just switch in and gain momentum from it. Tried EBelt but found myself using Psychic 90% of the time, and it was dealing narrowly missing the OHKO on several high priority targets, like Def Lando-T, 252/0 Bulu and AV Torn-T. Twisted Spoon manages to bridge the gap, allowing an OHKO after SR on all of these. Skarmory and Mantine are both 2HKOed without having to commit a moveslot to Thunderbolt.
Tapu Lele @ TwistedSpoon
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast / HP Fire
Tapu Lele @ TwistedSpoon
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast / HP Fire
Psychic Terrain is such a double edge tool. One thing I (and many others i've seen) usually forget is that the terrain prevents your own team from using priority moves. I missed a number of opportunities to revenge kill with Ice Shard, Extremespeed, Shadow Sneak and set up late game sweep with Mega Scizor.
Bad synergy with Mega Scizor (and Aegislash too, though not as bad) is quite bad for Lele itself since Zor is a great countermeasure against things that check Lele like Jirachi, Mega Metagross
Bad synergy with Mega Scizor (and Aegislash too, though not as bad) is quite bad for Lele itself since Zor is a great countermeasure against things that check Lele like Jirachi, Mega Metagross
I want to use an Aromatherapy Tapu Lele set, but i dont know how to distribute Evs in a Cleric. Whats more important, hp or speed?
I was thinking in a 92 Hp, 200 Special.A, 216 Speed, so i get leftovers numbers and outspeed 102 base speed with non speed boosting nature, like ofensive Garchomp.
But then again, whats more important? I could use more speed evs in HP, but i dont know if a cleric should be fast or more bulky.
I was thinking in a 92 Hp, 200 Special.A, 216 Speed, so i get leftovers numbers and outspeed 102 base speed with non speed boosting nature, like ofensive Garchomp.
But then again, whats more important? I could use more speed evs in HP, but i dont know if a cleric should be fast or more bulky.
Are there any solid checks to this mon? Psychic just hits so strong
252+ SpA Life Orb Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn in Psychic Terrain: 55-65 (30.3 - 35.9%) -- 0.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran in Psychic Terrain: 57-68 (28.7 - 34.3%) -- 2.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Both mons could be great chance but barely avoid the 3HKO with full investment. That means you have to play around it and predict or have I forgotten the ultimate counter here? (I hope I have ^^)
EDIT: Even Aegislash get's 2HKOed and fails to 1HKO Tapu Lele.
Only really solid check is Celesteela since it can live 2-3 Psychics and 1HKO with Heavy Slam.
252+ SpA Life Orb Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn in Psychic Terrain: 55-65 (30.3 - 35.9%) -- 0.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran in Psychic Terrain: 57-68 (28.7 - 34.3%) -- 2.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Both mons could be great chance but barely avoid the 3HKO with full investment. That means you have to play around it and predict or have I forgotten the ultimate counter here? (I hope I have ^^)
EDIT: Even Aegislash get's 2HKOed and fails to 1HKO Tapu Lele.
Only really solid check is Celesteela since it can live 2-3 Psychics and 1HKO with Heavy Slam.
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I dont think scarf is overlooked it's one of the most popular sets
Agreed, though I don't understand. Getting choice locked is hard up when your best move is psyshock/psychic, especially when you're not specs to compensate resisted hits. Not to mention dark types...
Scarf lele seems best against hyper offense, but most teams seem to be balance and stall, so I don't understand the popularity behind scarf lele. Life orb and specs help break walls like Ferrothorn, Mantine, Aegislash, and even Chansey if you're running psyshock. They're also good for popular bulky sweepers, like Buzzwole, Scizor, Alolan Marowak, and Tapu Bulu. But scarf lele fails to hit these guys hard enough (especially if locked in a bad move).
I agree...offense is very popular right now but I think the scarf set will be less common as the meta stabilizes. Life Orb and Specs seems better
Nothing...Tapu Lele gets Thunderbolt and will always 2HKO Celesteela if SPecs (LO is shakier). So we have a mon with nothing that can switch in on it...another Hoopa-U, basically.
Has the cleric set ever been covered?
Tapu Lele @ Leftovers
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold/Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Nature's Madness
- Toxic
- Aromatheraphy
If you really need something to wear down some bulky walls/tanks, you can use this simple set.
Psychic is the STAB chosen, due to Psychic Terrain's effect, which rectifies its power. Nature's Madness is the key move because it avoids opposite boosts to the Def/SpD stat and hurts Steel types, and this move is well complemented by Toxic, which puts a timer on a pokemon. Aromatheraphy is here for cleric support.
Is this set totally a trash? Tapu Lele has the same typing of Mega Gardevoir and higher stats than Clefable, and even though it is a meager support movepool, it is enough to work with.
EVs: Max HP and Max Def is here for longevity; too bad this pokemon doesn't have WoW such as Mega Gardevoir.
Tapu Lele @ Leftovers
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold/Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Nature's Madness
- Toxic
- Aromatheraphy
If you really need something to wear down some bulky walls/tanks, you can use this simple set.
Psychic is the STAB chosen, due to Psychic Terrain's effect, which rectifies its power. Nature's Madness is the key move because it avoids opposite boosts to the Def/SpD stat and hurts Steel types, and this move is well complemented by Toxic, which puts a timer on a pokemon. Aromatheraphy is here for cleric support.
Is this set totally a trash? Tapu Lele has the same typing of Mega Gardevoir and higher stats than Clefable, and even though it is a meager support movepool, it is enough to work with.
EVs: Max HP and Max Def is here for longevity; too bad this pokemon doesn't have WoW such as Mega Gardevoir.
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Sp. Def Bronzong is a check to offensive Lele and can even switch in on Shadow Ball if Lele isn't Modest (I'm not considering Specs as ):
252+ SpA Life Orb Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 51-60 (15 - 17.7%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bronzong: 61-73 (18 - 21.5%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 71-86 (21 - 25.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Tapu Lele Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 161-192 (47.6 - 56.8%) -- 37.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Lele Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 148-177 (43.7 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Meanwhile
4 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball (114 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 284-336 (100.7 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO (252 Speed EVs Modest)
4 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball (125 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 312-368 (110.6 - 130.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (252 Speed Evs Timid)
So Bronzong is a check. Of course Bronzong has lack of recovery and will hate losing almost all the HP, but it forces Lele to run Shadow Ball and makes Lele choose speed or bulk, and even in that case it's safer to switch Lele out.
252+ SpA Life Orb Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 51-60 (15 - 17.7%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bronzong: 61-73 (18 - 21.5%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 71-86 (21 - 25.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Tapu Lele Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 161-192 (47.6 - 56.8%) -- 37.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Lele Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 148-177 (43.7 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Meanwhile
4 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball (114 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 284-336 (100.7 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO (252 Speed EVs Modest)
4 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball (125 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 312-368 (110.6 - 130.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (252 Speed Evs Timid)
So Bronzong is a check. Of course Bronzong has lack of recovery and will hate losing almost all the HP, but it forces Lele to run Shadow Ball and makes Lele choose speed or bulk, and even in that case it's safer to switch Lele out.
It's not really forcing as without Aegislash in the format Tapu Lele can run Shadow Ball to hit the obvious Psychic switch-ins that would like to use the boost from Psychic Terrain while nailing Lele with their own Shadow Balls. As I said before, using HP Fire is stupid: switching Scizor into Lele is extremely idiotic as versions without special defense investment get nailed by Psychic anyway and versions with special defense investment are unable to OHKO with U-turn, making switching into Lele idiotic. Ferrothorn gets hit by Focus Blast already. There's nothing relevant that's going to get hit by HP Fire and I find its inclusion in the OP unneccesary.
I have a very general question about EV-Spreads.
Everybody puts the 4 residual EVs on SpD. What is the reason for doing that. Why not putting it on Def, because Def is its weakness?
Everybody puts the 4 residual EVs on SpD. What is the reason for doing that. Why not putting it on Def, because Def is its weakness?
If you are running scarf definitely want Modest for the damage imo (I dont like scarf as much as some others anyway though)....Ive been running Timid Specs but Modest Specs is delicious damage you cant go wrong with modest on any set
ok i got my calculations wrong, modest scarf loses in speed to pheromosa and all the+speed 150 tiers..its not much but it does hurt the modest preference
still thinking if it should be modest or timid
Tapu Lele and Pheromosa are such an awesome offensive core:
Tapu Lele @ Terrain Extender/Choice Specs
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Modest Nature
Ability: Psychic Surge
-Moonblast
-Psychic
-Shadow Ball
-Hidden Power Fire
Psychic obliterates most things that don't resist it. Moonblast deals with Dark-Types and Shadow Ball hits opposing Psychic-Types. HP Fire covers a couple of Steel-Types not weak to Shadow Ball.
Pheromosa @ Life Orb
252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
Ability: Beast Boost
-High Jump Kick
-U-Turn
-Ice Beam
-Poison Jab/Hidden Power Psychic
High Jump Kick is the spammable STAB while U-Turn is an option to pivot. Ice Beam covers Flying-Types and the last slot depends on the team's needs. Poison Jab hits fairies and HP Psychic is to hit Toxapex while benefitting from Lele's terrain.
Tapu Lele @ Terrain Extender/Choice Specs
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Modest Nature
Ability: Psychic Surge
-Moonblast
-Psychic
-Shadow Ball
-Hidden Power Fire
Psychic obliterates most things that don't resist it. Moonblast deals with Dark-Types and Shadow Ball hits opposing Psychic-Types. HP Fire covers a couple of Steel-Types not weak to Shadow Ball.
Pheromosa @ Life Orb
252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
Ability: Beast Boost
-High Jump Kick
-U-Turn
-Ice Beam
-Poison Jab/Hidden Power Psychic
High Jump Kick is the spammable STAB while U-Turn is an option to pivot. Ice Beam covers Flying-Types and the last slot depends on the team's needs. Poison Jab hits fairies and HP Psychic is to hit Toxapex while benefitting from Lele's terrain.
You only need Atk, SpAtk and Speed IVs to be even (not maxed) and the others to be at maximum (I think there are other possible combinations, but I can only remember that one), meaning HP Fire is legal on every single legends, ultra beasts and whatnot.
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