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Metagame SV Ubers UU Metagame Discussion (Ditto, Lunala, Iron Treads and Terapagos Dropped)
- Thread starter KineSquared
- Start date
nah dude you gotta useNow it’s time to make web teams featuring
and
! Fun meta and cool concept!
I use magnezone on my team as a check to magearna, even if it has volt switch i have barely evs in speed for zone to outspeed and get free damage on it, its kinda mid obviously but it can do important things
I have some questions about this meta, most notably, the actual Metagame picture. While there's some sort of idea of what is viable, VR isn't a great indicator of what's used and what is not (I mean, you would never figure out the high PR of Blissey in BH via being unranked for so long).
I think I've seen an Image of usage rate before... does anyone have a link of it? Probably from the tour but sorry, I was too busy covering BH to notice it.
I think I've seen an Image of usage rate before... does anyone have a link of it? Probably from the tour but sorry, I was too busy covering BH to notice it.
Those are the usage stats from the Discord server that we’ve been using before Smogon recognized us that you can join here if you want to https://discord.gg/ubersuu
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I got my first five games in and I do want to record my early meta thoughts, some of which I'm sure will age poorly:
-First off the meta is fun. I wasn't sure if I would like it but kudos to the people who put it together. I'm definitely going to be back for more.
-Magearna is absolutely nuts. Running a Trick Room team and Magearna coupled with Ursaluna-Bloodmoon and Iron Hands just gives an absurd amount of options for destroying the opponent. It still does classic Magearna things checking multiple threats, pivoting, and making your opponent guess which set you're running.
-Zacian feels a bit overpowered. The one game plan I can think of for dealing with it is to try and use it as Trick Room setup for Magearna. It's not a bad game plan but I can't really think of another way to deal with it. I guess I'm just curious if I'm missing something? What else beats Zacian?
-In my first five I only ran into Sun and Snow, but I definitely want to experiment with Rain. Aside from Palafin I feel like it definitely has some interesting options.
-Now for the take I think will age badly: I feel like Mono Claw is a really interesting rogue option for a team build. Pokemon like Magearna, the Ursalunas, and Houndstone seem like they should have enough bulk to make the build work. Plus making your opponent tilt is the ultimate ladder strategy.
-First off the meta is fun. I wasn't sure if I would like it but kudos to the people who put it together. I'm definitely going to be back for more.
-Magearna is absolutely nuts. Running a Trick Room team and Magearna coupled with Ursaluna-Bloodmoon and Iron Hands just gives an absurd amount of options for destroying the opponent. It still does classic Magearna things checking multiple threats, pivoting, and making your opponent guess which set you're running.
-Zacian feels a bit overpowered. The one game plan I can think of for dealing with it is to try and use it as Trick Room setup for Magearna. It's not a bad game plan but I can't really think of another way to deal with it. I guess I'm just curious if I'm missing something? What else beats Zacian?
-In my first five I only ran into Sun and Snow, but I definitely want to experiment with Rain. Aside from Palafin I feel like it definitely has some interesting options.
-Now for the take I think will age badly: I feel like Mono Claw is a really interesting rogue option for a team build. Pokemon like Magearna, the Ursalunas, and Houndstone seem like they should have enough bulk to make the build work. Plus making your opponent tilt is the ultimate ladder strategy.
FrostyRandom
Banned deucer.
Hello people
I believe I should release my opinion on this metagame’s Pokémon.
Today, I realized that Houndstone is an exceptionally good Pokémon in this format. Houndstone Can exceptionally wall almost every physical attacker with fluffy+Max Defense, and can retaliate with Wil-o-wisp. Regaining Last Respects only benefits the cause of Houndstone being an exceptionally Physical wall, that can potentially deal a ton of damage if you’re running low on Pokémon. Sure, relying on rest for recovery is not ideal, and it dosen’t deal well with dark coverage and Arceus-Fire, but other than that, it can take a beating. I believe that Houndstone is one of the Best Physical Walls in this metagame.
Today, I realized that Houndstone is an exceptionally good Pokémon in this format. Houndstone Can exceptionally wall almost every physical attacker with fluffy+Max Defense, and can retaliate with Wil-o-wisp. Regaining Last Respects only benefits the cause of Houndstone being an exceptionally Physical wall, that can potentially deal a ton of damage if you’re running low on Pokémon. Sure, relying on rest for recovery is not ideal, and it dosen’t deal well with dark coverage and Arceus-Fire, but other than that, it can take a beating. I believe that Houndstone is one of the Best Physical Walls in this metagame.
Is that usage from all players or only high elo? Also, I'll indeed consider joining after I end my job with BH money tour tomorrow... except not exactly, I have exams next week so I'm a bit too busy atm.
That being said, I can indeed see what Kind of meta UUbers/Ubers UU is.
- Just like OU, it's mostly Offense because ubers took away defensive staples, forcing Ubers UU players to patch it with Arceus, Magearna and Dialga as your primary defensive tools.
- I'm noticing it's quite vulnerable to ground types, which explains the High usage of Landorus-Incarnate, BloodMoon and specially Rillaboom. That being said, the main attacking types are water and fairy, with water keeping ground in check.
- Shed Tail exists in this tier and is at its most prevalent, making the games very volatile; same for Last respects Houndstone and Speed Boost Espathra. Because of this tier's nature, this is the place where Tera is at its most danger to cause sweeps.
- Unlike both OU and Ubers, Spikes are quite limited due to Gliscor and Ting-Lu being actually good Ubers... That's what I wish I could say but in reality Magearna gained spikes because potato; at least Magearna overlaps with Gholdengo, because if it wasn't like it...
- The list of Ubers so bad they're not even worth bringing to UUbers on regular teams are: Darkrai, Dialga-Origin, Palkia-Altered, Arceus-Ice/Rock/Bug/Fighting/Dragon/Psychic (Dark seems well-rated despite low usage, almost as if the author mixed A+ with B+) and both Urshifu forms.
- Weather is also prevalent, probably due to all the Paradox forms and water moves. Despite houndstone being popular, There's not a lot of Tyranitar because he really despises godmothers and baths, even with Knock off aka the move who moved Roaring moon from UUBL to Ubers.
The usage stats were from all 1600+ games collected over a week on the dawn side server. No ELO weighing or anything.
The viability rankings were made by the tiering council, not based on usage stats entirely. Arceus-Dark is high on the list because Stored Power is a fairly relevant threat between Espathra, Cosmic Power Arceus, and the rare boosting Magearna. Additionally, Dark type provides enough defensive utility outside of that (resists Last Respects, resists Chi-Yu Dark Pulse if you need it to, neutral to a lot of strong hits which is often good enough with 120/120/120 defenses). Arceus-Dark with Calm Mind / Taunt / Recover / Judgment is also a really good stallbreaker if well positioned, although this set does lose much of its defensive utility. Personally, I do feel that it's quite a bit worse than Arceus-Poison overall, but I believe it's by far the 2nd best Arceus type for slapping on to any team.
So are all arceus forms uuber
No, we consider them to be separate mons for tiering purposes - three of them (Fairy, Ground, Normal) are above 4.52% usage in Ubers, thus are above the cutoff and not allowed in Ubers UU. Five more (Electric, Flying, Ghost, Steel, Water) are below the cutoff but banned from Ubers UU due to being overcentralizing in the meta. All other forms are available.
Edit: fixed mistakes
"defensive" volcarona is probably my favorite out of everything ive tried in the past day and a half. having something with recovery that checks both zacian and magearna is amazing, here's the set:
Volcarona @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Morning Sun
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance/Flamethrower
- Bug Buzz/Whatever you feel like
max def for better reliability against zacian (although its ability to deal with banded zacian with wild charge is shaky if you aren't lucky enough for quick flame body proc)
i prefer firey dance over flamethrower because of the spa raise but flamethrower woks too if you're worried about running out of pp or just want more burns
bug buzz is just kinda there for whatever can take a fire move or two
Volcarona @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Morning Sun
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance/Flamethrower
- Bug Buzz/Whatever you feel like
max def for better reliability against zacian (although its ability to deal with banded zacian with wild charge is shaky if you aren't lucky enough for quick flame body proc)
i prefer firey dance over flamethrower because of the spa raise but flamethrower woks too if you're worried about running out of pp or just want more burns
bug buzz is just kinda there for whatever can take a fire move or two
I love the shitshow that is this tier so far, but I have to say the only thing I think is semi-banworthy ATM is Shed Tail/Espathra.
That zacian looking real scary tho
See Zacian is manageable IMO due to Bulky Volc, Arceus Fire, Mag and so on being everywhere and being so amazing.
Shed tail/Esp is ya misplay once and you lose.
On a side note I'd put Palkia-O as a top 3 Mon in the tier.
So in short we won't get an official image of how the meta is up until december 1st. Again, both general usage and council tends to fail, so it's better with official numbers.
Honestly I feel Zacian is arguably the biggest Shed Tail abuser in the tier for a simple reason: Access to swords dance + being able to outspeed almost everything from the get-go, meaning the amount of reliable checks are almost 0. Idk if that would be more of a Zacian or Cyclizar issue though. Also, allow me to distrust the statement of a midladder player because I know we don't often make logical plays or teambuilding in retrospective.
Fair enough and I do think it's a shed tail issue not a Zacian issue. I feel like 90% of games boil down to.
Cyclical used Shed Tail.
Insert set up sweeper here.
Set up sweeper sets up.
Ya crit/outspeed/burn/roar/ Haze it. If not they win.
Cyclical comes in. Rinse and repeat until either side wins.
So I finally played Ubers Ubers UU today and I have to say, it's one of the most fun metas. More than Current boring Ou. Yes there are games that I lost which is tbh I didn't mind if I lost those matches more than Ou. For me I don't really feel like any mons is worth banning. I know Zacian can be annoying, sometimes one of my Arceus has Roar which works in my favorite sometimes to get the chip if I put spikes or SR. I created like 4 different teams and all are decent. I'm not the best player at all lol but I know what I'm doing at most times but sometimes I can misplayed which happens. If you guys are looking for Zacian Answers hmmm. Paladin is good, Defense Espathra SB, Crocalor (Tera Water, Ground, Flying is perfect to Counter Zacian Tera Ground), Spectrier is good if it's gets the boost, Scarf Chi-Yu. I know these are not the best answers everyone is looking for but I tried my best but personally I never had trouble with Zacian at times but it's easily to play around it especially if it Tera Ground which is easy to beat for me that is. But like I said I'm enjoying this tier a lot 10/10
espartha is the most unfun thing. using scarf tera dark goth as an answer, which can be a decent revenge killer also. in general stored power is annoying. running roar on some mons too. not convinced we cant play around for a while but would rather we consider suspecting/banning stored power before magearna and espartha both if it comes down to it? ( and probably arceus, i just got beat by a cosmic/stored power arceus)...
If that’s the problem you keep running into with Cyclizar, I reccomend adding a scarfer or something that naturally outspeeds Cyclizar with U-turn or Volt-Switch. Whenever you see the opponent bringing the Cycle, always lead, and if the opponent leads Cyclizar attack immediately to keep it from passing a Sub and if they didn’t lead it, just pivot out and keep up enough offensive pressure to stop it from getting in for free.
I do want to say, I 100% agree that the Cycle and Espathra are very powerful to the point of almost definitely being broken. I’m not trying to justify their presence in the tier, just sharing my way of stopping them while they remain. I prefer to use Special-attacking Landorus Incarnate for this role, as it shreds most ‘Mons with Earth Power (and definitely does with Sandsear Storm if you want to live on the edge with accuracy).
