Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Excellent post as always.

What is your Top 5?


Who's the most overrated mon in OU?


Who's the most underrated mon in OU?


Who do you think will rise/drop?

(other mons should drop or rise but ladder is bad)

What's your favorite anti-stall core/set/mon?
Ada Taunt + Tera Dark Glasses

my top 5

i still think gambit is broken. not the most broken thing in the tier anymore, but still broken. yes, i think it's the best mon in the tier but not the most broken one. it blanket-checks most things simply by existing at the right time. it's a living, breathing get-out-of-jail-free card and i hate it hate it hate it

tusk is this generation's buzzwole, but specifically optimized for the hazard meta. the usefulness of this mon cannot be overstated, especially in a meta this hazard-heavy with gholdengo and kingambit in it. it can wallbreak, set up, tank stuff, clean in the late game, set hazards, remove hazards, knock off, absorb knock off, remove terrain, wash your dishes, mow your lawn, repair that hole in your roof, get rid of ant infestations, cure headaches, protect your passwords from cybercriminals, and it even works underwater! order great tusk today for only $29.95 plus shipping and handling and we'll throw in a galarian slowking at no extra charge!

remember back at the beginning of the gen when everyone was scared of physical ghost tera blast ddance on this thing? hah, good times. instead all we have to be afraid of is specs and band and wisp and twave and sub and quick attack for some fucking reason and sash and oh yeah it also runs physical ghost tera blast sometimes. is it a problem? jury's still out on that, but public opinion seems to be increasingly trending towards "maybe" rather than the firm "no" it had earlier in the gen

dumb 50/50 machine like gambit, but at least it doesn't have a stupid comeback mechanic to go with it and things are actually immune to its dumb 50/50 move. i think it's broken, but so's everything these days and i don't really have the energy to care at this point

heavily underrated in my opinion. not broken, but one of the best mons in the meta. sets spikes like nobody's business, nothing can set up on it with confidence because it can phaze and isn't passive, and it just does. not. die. it's an a- mon in ubers, which not only has an insanely higher power level but is also full of mons that body it (koraidon, zac-c, kyogre, ho-oh, arc-fairy, pao, gliscor, caly-ice, etc). that doesn't necessarily translate one-to-one to equal viability in ou, but it just goes to show you how insane ting-lu's stat spread and utility are that it can not just hold its own but thrive in that environment. use ting-lu, guys, it's great

most overrated mon
, specifically with earth power
i was gonna say iron boulder but everyone already knows that mon is doomed to uubl so it's technically no longer overrated. earth power lando-t, on the other hand, does not deserve the hype it's been getting. people have just forgotten what special ground-type offensive pivots are supposed to be like and are shoving mons like lando-t and treads into the role instead of just using sandy shocks like god intended. it's like clobbering someone over the head with a shotgun, or serving salsa out of a gravy boat—sure, it technically works and there are scenarios where it might be optimal, but there's just a way better and more obvious method of getting where you want to go. i've seen plenty of established and talented people endorse earth power lando-t and make well-founded, legitimate arguments for its use. to these arguments i say, respectfully, "nuh uh". i simply do not believe it and i'll wear this tinfoil hat all day long if i have to

most underrated mon

this thing is a monster. dozo-level bulk with a massive attack stat to back it up, insanely good offensive coverage, swords dance, pivoting ability. the only things holding it back are the lack of a real eterrain setter and the fact that good physical electric moves don't actually exist, and even then it can still wreck shit with thunder punch (or, if you're a true maniac, supercell slam). iron hands is also one of the only mons that can feasibly run the based and chadlike item punching glove—clicking drain punch, thunder punch, and ice punch is a lot more comfortable when you don't have to worry about rocky helmet or flame body, and that 1.1x boost can end up making a difference at +2. maybe at some point in the future (heh, future) someone will find a way to viably set up eterrain and iron hands will become the big guy he was always destined to be

what will rise

in addition to these, i expect one surprise mon that no one has on their "moving up to ou" radar, but i don't know who

what will drop


favorite anti-stall thing
it's the fucking sun band gouging fire set. as much as i hate the fact that it's still here, i can't deny that it makes me feel like a god to punch holes that big through opposing stall teams without them being able to do literally anything about it. the only way—the only way—for stall to not instalose to this set is to sack something, bring in dozo, and start cursing, which just gives you an easy switch to a dozo answer (like, say, raging bolt) if you play it right and don't lock yourself into raging fury too early. or they could run some unviable shit like dachsbun or physdef scream tail, but c'mon

also page 369 haha nice

 

[GummyRowlets]

my top 5

i still think gambit is broken. not the most broken thing in the tier anymore, but still broken. yes, i think it's the best mon in the tier but not the most broken one. it blanket-checks most things simply by existing at the right time. it's a living, breathing get-out-of-jail-free card and i hate it hate it hate it

tusk is this generation's buzzwole, but specifically optimized for the hazard meta. the usefulness of this mon cannot be overstated, especially in a meta this hazard-heavy with gholdengo and kingambit in it. it can wallbreak, set up, tank stuff, clean in the late game, set hazards, remove hazards, knock off, absorb knock off, remove terrain, wash your dishes, mow your lawn, repair that hole in your roof, get rid of ant infestations, cure headaches, protect your passwords from cybercriminals, and it even works underwater! order great tusk today for only $29.95 plus shipping and handling and we'll throw in a galarian slowking at no extra charge!

remember back at the beginning of the gen when everyone was scared of physical ghost tera blast ddance on this thing? hah, good times. instead all we have to be afraid of is specs and band and wisp and twave and sub and quick attack for some fucking reason and sash and oh yeah it also runs physical ghost tera blast sometimes. is it a problem? jury's still out on that, but public opinion seems to be increasingly trending towards "maybe" rather than the firm "no" it had earlier in the gen

dumb 50/50 machine like gambit, but at least it doesn't have a stupid comeback mechanic to go with it and things are actually immune to its dumb 50/50 move. i think it's broken, but so's everything these days and i don't really have the energy to care at this point

heavily underrated in my opinion. not broken, but one of the best mons in the meta. sets spikes like nobody's business, nothing can set up on it with confidence because it can phaze and isn't passive, and it just does. not. die. it's an a- mon in ubers, which not only has an insanely higher power level but is also full of mons that body it (koraidon, zac-c, kyogre, ho-oh, arc-fairy, pao, gliscor, caly-ice, etc). that doesn't necessarily translate one-to-one to equal viability in ou, but it just goes to show you how insane ting-lu's stat spread and utility are that it can not just hold its own but thrive in that environment. use ting-lu, guys, it's great

most overrated mon
, specifically with earth power
i was gonna say iron boulder but everyone already knows that mon is doomed to uubl so it's technically no longer overrated. earth power lando-t, on the other hand, does not deserve the hype it's been getting. people have just forgotten what special ground-type offensive pivots are supposed to be like and are shoving mons like lando-t and treads into the role instead of just using sandy shocks like god intended. it's like clobbering someone over the head with a shotgun, or serving salsa out of a gravy boat—sure, it technically works and there are scenarios where it might be optimal, but there's just a way better and more obvious method of getting where you want to go. i've seen plenty of established and talented people endorse earth power lando-t and make well-founded, legitimate arguments for its use. to these arguments i say, respectfully, "nuh uh". i simply do not believe it and i'll wear this tinfoil hat all day long if i have to

most underrated mon

this thing is a monster. dozo-level bulk with a massive attack stat to back it up, insanely good offensive coverage, swords dance, pivoting ability. the only things holding it back are the lack of a real eterrain setter and the fact that good physical electric moves don't actually exist, and even then it can still wreck shit with thunder punch (or, if you're a true maniac, supercell slam). iron hands is also one of the only mons that can feasibly run the based and chadlike item punching glove—clicking drain punch, thunder punch, and ice punch is a lot more comfortable when you don't have to worry about rocky helmet or flame body, and that 1.1x boost can end up making a difference at +2. maybe at some point in the future (heh, future) someone will find a way to viably set up eterrain and iron hands will become the big guy he was always destined to be

what will rise

in addition to these, i expect one surprise mon that no one has on their "moving up to ou" radar, but i don't know who

what will drop


favorite anti-stall thing
it's the fucking sun band gouging fire set. as much as i hate the fact that it's still here, i can't deny that it makes me feel like a god to punch holes that big through opposing stall teams without them being able to do literally anything about it. the only way—the only way—for stall to not instalose to this set is to sack something, bring in dozo, and start cursing. or run some unviable shit like dachsbun or physdef scream tail

ONLY $29.95 FOR A GREAT TUSK AND A FREE GLOWKING, take my money already

 

[Heatranator]

most overrated mon
, specifically with earth power
i was gonna say iron boulder but everyone already knows that mon is doomed to uubl so it's technically no longer overrated. earth power lando-t, on the other hand, does not deserve the hype it's been getting. people have just forgotten what special ground-type offensive pivots are supposed to be like and are shoving mons like lando-t and treads into the role instead of just using sandy shocks like god intended. it's like clobbering someone over the head with a shotgun, or serving salsa out of a gravy boat—sure, it technically works and there are scenarios where it might be optimal, but there's just a way better and more obvious method of getting where you want to go. i've seen plenty of established and talented people endorse earth power lando-t and make well-founded, legitimate arguments for its use. to these arguments i say, respectfully, "nuh uh". i simply do not believe it and i'll wear this tinfoil hat all day long if i have to

Earth power lando is honestly decent. It's like combining normal Lando-T but you hit things for more damage because most things (not named blissey) are weaker on the special side. For example, against tusk e-quake does 37% max, while earth power does 53% max. Quite a difference. It also allows you to use stuff like grass knot, which destroys tusk. Lando-t does have the second highest special attack of ground types, at base 105. Let's say your facing a zamazenta, which commonly boosts its defense stat. Lando-T only has to invest 72 evs into special attack to break zama's sub. Compared to this, you have to invest 240 evs into attack to do the same with earthquake. And for a little bonus, you don't get weakened by g-terrain
Iron treads on the other hand, while I have used special treads, it isn't really good. The only reason I used it was because I needed a spinner on a g-terrain team and e-quake is weakened lmao. It's not all its cracked up to be, its just meh. You don't even have a chance to OHKO cinderace, that's just pathetic.

 

[j0nathan]

How To Tera Proof Your Team​

View attachment 619953
Terastilization is a controversial topic within the Overused community. The ability to flip matchups in an inherently baffling concept to a game of checks/counters. Suddenly Gambit is immune to Close Combat and Volc now beats Heatran. However I will be shortly demonstrating how to Tera-Proof your teams with a couple steps/methods.

Tera-Proofing is what it sounds like. Making the opponent uncomfortable to Tera, keeping them in a bad spot even after Tera, and having counterplay that functions regardless of checks. So the odds of getting swept cause of a random Tera are lesser.

Tip #1 Know The Most Likely Teras
View attachment 619954

This will take metagame knowledge to follow. If you wanna know what the most common Teras are, look at the Tera Index, or ask people on the Discord, Showdown chat, and the forums.

Tip #2 Cores That Punish Tera
View attachment 619955

Terastilization can turn bad matchups into good ones, but it also reverses good or neutral matchups. There is no Tera that perfectly counters a whole team, so you can build a core that almost perfectly checks that Tera or Teraless mon. Here’s some examples.

View attachment 619956 + View attachment 619957
This is a classic core, and it helps vs Volcarona and Moth who can break past Tran with Tera Ground or Water. However Terastilization also leaves them vulnerable to Grassy Glide. If they decide not to Tera, Tran checks them anyways. You could also switch into Rilla on a telegraphed Tera Ground Blast, meaning you don’t lose Tran or Rilla. This core also punishes badly timed Tera Flying from Mola since now it can no longer switch into Heatran.

View attachment 619958 + View attachment 619959
Not only is this a generally good core to pressure Grounds like Ting-Lu or Great Tusk, but it also nicely covers the Tera Flying Moon matchup and other mons that click Tera Flying such as Kingambit or Gholdengo. The premise is simple. If Moon doesn’t Tera, it eats a heavy U-Turn + Helmet chip, and if it does, Raging Bolt can rkill with a well-timed Thunderclap.

View attachment 619961 + View attachment 619962
A cool offensive core involving the classic FS + physical breaker combo followed with Spikes. It also covers Tera Fairy Ghold or Tera Fairy Garg, two mons that can snowball out of control if left unchecked. Samu will threaten with its STABs, and if they Tera Fairy, they become easy pickings for the fast Steel type with a special version of Double Iron Bash.

View attachment 619963 + View attachment 619964/View attachment 619965
Gambit + physical wall covers the main Tera to bypass Zama and Skarm, Tera Ghost. We’ve seen Tera Ghost Gambit, Tusk, Weavile, Moon, Gliscor, and even Dnite. So Gambit can pick them off and prevent a sweep. If you are looking to cover physical attackers on Balance/BO, this is the go-to-core.

View attachment 619966 + View attachment 619967
This core is not only a strong voltturn core, but also for checking Tera Fire Zama which has been an option that’s been popping up to reverse its matchups with Fairies and 1v1 Wisp Pult, but Tera Fire also leaves it vulnerable to EP Lando.

View attachment 619968 + View attachment 619969/View attachment 619970
Most Balance teams’ responses to Volc is to Tera Water, and most Balance teams’ responses to Wogre is to Tera Grass, but this fantastic core covers both. Putting the team in a lose-lose situation. You could also do the same with other Fire types like Dirge, Gfire, or Cinderace.

View attachment 619972/View attachment 619973 + View attachment 619974
A nasty defensive core that punishes the infamous G-Fire. If G-Fire doesn’t click Tera Poison, it gets Toxic’d. If it does, Mola can land a burn. Garg can also take Gliscor’s place and Salt Cure the fuck outta Gfire.

Tip #3 Using General Counterplay That Works Regardless Of Tera
View attachment 619975

View attachment 619976View attachment 619977View attachment 619978
Unaware
No matter what Tera Raging Bolt uses, it’s never breaking past an Unaware Clodsire. In the same way Zama won’t ever break past Dondozo. If you run Stall, you’re required to run at least one of these indestructible behemoths. Even Balance can benefit from these.

View attachment 619979View attachment 619980
Encore
Encore is a bit more readily accessible than in during the Pre-Home and Home days. We have several options like Val, Ogerpon, Samu, Dnite, Prim, and Clef. Even niche options like Tinkaton, Alolatales, Scream Tail, and Lucha function. Encore is good into slower wincons such as Kingambit, Garg, or CM Prim regardless of what Tera they use.

View attachment 619981
Phazing
Some Pokemon can stop a premature sweep with phazing, regardless of what Tera is used (except Tera Fairy Ghold lmao). Tera Ghost for example is a common option to bypass Zama, but Roar allows it to beat them anyways. Phazers include mons like Dtail Dnite, Whirlwind Skarm, Ting-Lu, and Dtail G-Fire. Other methods can include Red Card for a one-time phaze. Imo phazing should be explored more, not just on Ting or Zama, as it punishes Booster and greedy plays while racking up hazard chip.

View attachment 619982View attachment 619983View attachment 619984
Checks that work regardless of Tera
A good example is Zama who regardless of what Tera Gambit uses. Boosted Body Presses still let it 1v1 Gambit even with Tera Fairy or Flying while Crunch can 3HKO Gambit. Ting-Lu still matches up well with R-Bolt even with Tera Fairy. Dragonite can usually 1v1 a majority of the offensive meta like Volc even with Tera Dragon, Ground, Fairy, etc.

I have other projects planned for April, so stayed tuned for those. This guide is notably shorter than my other ones, but that is cause there is not much. Compared to Spikes, fighting HO, or playing vs Stall, Tera is still a year old mechanic that players are still exploring and honing. To cap this off, here are some questions to spark discussion and to give my own answers.

What is your Top 5?

My Answer

View attachment 619985View attachment 619986View attachment 619987View attachment 619988View attachment 619989

Who’s the most overrated mon in OU?

My Answer

View attachment 619990View attachment 619991
I can’t decide between these two. Skarm is an absolute momentum sinker even with Spikes while being inconsistent as a physical wall. R-Moon is still good, but I haven’t felt threatened by a sweep lately. Gets shit on by Dnite or Lando. Balance has alot of obstacles for Moon like Dozo, Garg, Mola, Barb Clef, and Gliscor. Red Card also shits on this thing or any Booster mon in general. Moon feels like a skill/teambuilding check.

Who’s the most underrated mon in OU?

My Answer

View attachment 619992
Booster sets suck but AV Crown is the most underrated pivot atm. Role compresses Future Sight, Volt Switch, Fairy check, and Kyurem check in one slot. Specs Tachyon is spammable asf, especially with Tera. Plus it’s been seeing more frequent use on BO.

Who do you think will rise/drop?

My Answer

Rise: View attachment 619994View attachment 619995View attachment 619996View attachment 619997 and maybe View attachment 619998

Drop: View attachment 620000View attachment 620001View attachment 620002

What’s your favorite anti-stall core/set/mon?

My Answer

View attachment 620003View attachment 620004
Sub-CM Tera Ghost Psychic Noise Prim is a favorite of mine. It reverses your Gking mu and shits on CM Blissey without effort. Water immunities are also rare on Stall since Clod tends to go with Unaware.

What is your Top 5?
/
Who's the most overrated mon in OU?
Idk what to put here so:
I don't really like Serp cause it always felt underwhelming to me. Too slow and not enough damage.
Who’s the most underrated mon in OU?
is so great. Especially speed booster energy x sub sets with fiery dance.
Who do you think will rise/drop?


What's your favorite anti-stall core/set/mon?
Just use taunt and encore on random pokemon. Or forfeit.

 

[viivian]

> > > ≥



but is certainly up there as well



and methinks



choice specs my dearly beloved

will not elaborate on any of these :3

forgot to do this in the initial post so

rises:

drops:

 

[Delibird Heart]

we did it brothers. BROLOASSAL HAS LIFTOFF...

 

[Tio Chico]

What is your Top 5? /
They're all so self-explanatory, boring.
Honorable mentions:

Who's the most overrated mon in OU?

It makes a playstyle that yet was never completely viable for others reasons unviable, GF presses 3 and didn't go away, so...
Item locked, vulnerable to hazards, "slow" to offense.
Although I deny the 4mss. SD 3 atk is what you want/need, with the rest being bonuses you rarely use but need to worry about. btw a good mon.

Who’s the most underrated mon in OU?
(Rain) We just need a new hero that fits new parts and makes a playstyle that has an advantage against the Sun/Paradox of the past good again. If one of those pieces is I would appreciate it.
Screw your team build.
Schrödinger's moth;
It already enters the field with a boost, has a 50% chance of getting another, so you don't know if the remaining moveset is Energy Ball, Psychic, Bug Buzz, Dazzling Gleam, Discharge, Sludge Wave, Tera Blast. Toxic Spikes, U-Turn, Hurricane, Flash Cannon, Meteor Beam. (Endure +) Custap Berry because any mon run this now.
I've seen Specs Overheat in the sun and it hurts.

Who do you think will rise/drop?
Up
Down

What's your favorite anti-stall core/set/mon?

Set

Volcanion @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Fire Spin
- Steam Eruption
- Flamethrower

Blocks Flip Turn, with Tera Ghost invalidates many Blissey variants. Boots to enter the field several times and without HP investment he already has 301 points = Survives 3 Seismic Toss. And forces Tera in Gliscor (If it is Water).

 

[YubelVT]

It's actually not as difficult as you would think to transform, meloetta can threaten something out with a psychic most of the time, which allows you to click relic song easily and transform. They don't even want to stay in that often to predict the relic song since it can potentially sleep them, so its much freer than you think.
The main issue with meloetta is getting it into battle, but with careful positioning, it can be done. Something like glowking is good entry, since knock off threatens it a lot.

While true, I really just want independent meloetta-p to fuck up a draft league I'm in with. I proposed having it hold something like mail or just not having an item but they won't hear me out because it's "impossible to do on cart"

anyway having used mixed meloetta during her suspect in gen 7 RU she can do stuff but was definitely carried by the z-celebrate she had in gen 7 and I wish she could just be a strong independent woman that don't need no song

 

[TCTphantom]

What is your Top 5?



Not ordered btw. Tusk and Lando are insane glue mons for different reasons. Tusk checks Gambit, can knock off or wallbreak on its own, and spin. Lando T still gets a ton of momentum and the combo of rocky helmet, intimidate, and u turn make it great at making progress no matter what. Zamazenta, Dragapult, and Kingambit are just reliable as hell. They always make progress offensively and defensively. Just fantastic mons.

Honorable Mentions:

Who do you think is the most overrated mon in OU?



Yeah I know, its the fraud mon. I think most folks have caught on that Iron Boulder certifiably does not have the sauce.. Its just such a frail set up sweeper without any of the defensive synergy or bulk Valiant has. It does not help that Boulder is pretty tera hungry, because without it you just let le monke revenge you for free. Its so hard to fit and this mon getting more usage than genuinely great mons like Deoxys Speed is a travesty.

If he does not count, is also overrated and just kind of alright. Sure it seemed like a beast early on with Tera but its a lot harder to fit than it should be and it just feels so weak.

Who do you think is the most underrated mon in OU?

should not be on this list, but it is. I find offensive Deo S to still certifiably have the sauce. Sure, lead Deoxys Speed is not the broken mon we all thought it would be, but the offensive sets are so customizable and great at sniping kills. I have found it to be quite solid, even if its defensive synergy can leave a bit to be desired.

For an actually underrated mon, has the sauce unlike Iron Fraud. AV Crown is just a good pivot who can check a bunch of stuff all at once while still keeping some momentum.

What do you think will rise/drop?

Rise: for sure, maybe
Drop: :pelliper:


What's your favorite anti-stall core/set/mon?

, its just so clean sometimes.

 

[MattC (Banned)]

View attachment 620170

we did it brothers. BROLOASSAL HAS LIFTOFF...

You know man, you started that annoying trend of Quick Claw being meta (for like 2 weeks). Maybe you're onto something, but I don't like the sound of Coalossal becoming...

no, that's just the VGC trauma kicking in

 

[MegaScizor32]

I thought might as well give my opinion since I’m bored.

What is your top 5? In order.
(slot 5 can arguably be )
Who’s the most overrated mon in OU?
i’d say or
Who’s the most underrated mon in OU?
Probably or
Who do you think will rise/drop?
Rise:
Drop:
What your favorite anti-stall/set/core?
My go to is
Mixed DD also goobs stall

 

[arnimacarni]

Staying in on Saturday evening, let's give this a shot:

What is your top 5?

Who’s the most overrated mon in OU?
mainly but if we adhere to the meaning of the word overrated, i'd say bc i see so many people saying it's super broken and i only see it as A/A- rank, it hurts from staying in the tier so much
Who’s the most underrated mon in OU?

Who do you think will rise/drop?
Rise:
Drop:
What your favorite anti-stall/set/core?
I play stall/semi-stall myself so bad point of reference, but again does wonders for me

Also unrelated but I've been playing a bit of Radical Red Showdown (they have their own server) and I miss ma boi so much, it's so easy to build stall and rain in that meta thanks to it. Hopefully it beats the homophobic allegations and he joins us back in Gen 10

 

[Tio Chico]

Who do you think will rise/drop?

What's with Dewgong? I'm legitimately curious, some kind of niche to switch in Kyurem and pivot with Flip Turn, plus?

 

[arnimacarni]

What's with Dewgong? I'm legitimately curious, some kind of niche to switch in Kyurem and pivot with Flip Turn, plus?

Dewgong is there to make you talk about it

 

[Heatranator]

What's with Dewgong? I'm legitimately curious, some kind of niche to switch in Kyurem and pivot with Flip Turn, plus?

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Freeze-Dry vs. 248 HP / 164+ SpD Thick Fat Dewgong: 69-82 (18 - 21.4%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
Huh, maybe I should start using dewgong more.

Dewgong is there to make you talk about it

View attachment 620268

Me to myself

 

[Tio Chico]

Dewgong is there to make you talk about it

View attachment 620268

I took the bait so easily.
btw, despite bad stats, Encore, Knock Off, Flip Turn, Kyurem "switch", Endeavor + Aqua Jet/Ice Shard, Whirlpool, Perish Song. Lets Go Heatranator niche enthusiastic.

 

[Finchinator]

Top 5: without a doubt, then are my personal picks, but you can argue easily or with some validity.

Overrated is probably , who is still very good, but not close to broken or top 5-10 like many people would say. Honorable mention to , who is just ok and struggles to fit onto many teams right now.

Underrated is likely or :Samurott-H:, but you could sell me on , which provides unique role compression on offense.

Drops/Rises: No comment on rises/drops as I do not put much weight into ladder usage or the UU list until things settle some more.

Anti-fat: Most with U-turn or Knock, SD PR , and pretty much any

 

[Bold School]

Dewgong is there to make you talk about it

You gave me quite the shock with that one. I nearly fell out of my chair seeing Dewgong.

But like, shouldn't you at least use bait that has plausible niche use in OU? The conversation ends at bait otherwise. If it had a realistic shot at being usable in in the tier, though, you could keep the conversation going from there.

 

[Heatranator]

I took the bait so easily.
btw, despite bad stats, Encore, Knock Off, Flip Turn, Kyurem "switch", Endeavor + Aqua Jet/Ice Shard, Whirlpool, Perish Song. Lets Go Heatranator niche enthusiastic.

You asked and I have delivered.
Dewgong @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Thick Fat
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 172 SpD
Bold Nature
- Alluring Voice
- Knock Off
- Flip Turn
- Perish Song
With this set, dewgong can take on many different threats in the teambuilder. Alluring voice stops people from setting up and can two hit ko iron valiant. The bold nature and 84 defense ev's means it can take one iron valiant close combat from full. The rest are into its bulk. Tera fairy means it can resist fighting moves from the tusks, zama's and valiants while boosting the power of alluring voice. Knock off of course gives it utility by removing items, while flip turn gives it momentum to get out of a situation and get some chip (5% chip mind you). Finally, perish song allows it to stop something like a late game gambit from sweeping, though other moves could be used instead such as surf for better damage.
+2 252+ Atk Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 252 HP / 84+ Def Dewgong: 312-367 (81.2 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Oh yeah, it can do this too.

 

[arnimacarni]

You gave me quite the shock with that one. I nearly fell out of my chair seeing Dewgong.

But like, shouldn't you at least use bait that has plausible niche use in OU? The conversation ends at bait otherwise. If it had a realistic shot at being usable in in the tier, though, you could keep the conversation going from there.

That's true, but it's past midnight and I woke up early today, that was the first mon I could think about and I didn't think anyone would notice lol

If now I have to become the local Dewgong truther in the thread I'll wear that label with pride hahaha but now in all seriousness that a nice set you cooked Tio Chico and Heatranator <3 pls link any wins with it hahah

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Morkal if you're still here, could you do us a favor and look into dewgong and what its optimal place in the meta would be? i'd do it myself but i'm at work right now

 

[RyukTheDarkrai]

While Sun might be on the decline and Gouging Fire's not as threatening as it once was, what combination of two Fire moves do you fellow Goug Heads run on it? Heat Crash, Flare Blitz or Raging Fury?

Each of them have their own pros and cons. Heat Crash's base power is inconsistent, especially with Great Tusk in the tier, but it doesn't cause recoil nor does it lock Gouging Fire in battle. Raging Fury and Flare Blitz are more consistent, but they either leave Gouging Fire prone to being revenge killed or worn down over the course of a game.

Shoutouts to the people who still run Adamant Choice Band because of the sheer adrenaline of clicking Tera Fire and watching Dondozo take 50%+, that will never not feel utterly addicting.

 

[TheTraininator]

Morkal if you're still here, could you do us a favor and look into dewgong and what its optimal place in the meta would be? i'd do it myself but i'm at work right now

Isn’t Dewgong’s main niche like, Perish Song + Whirlpool + Flip Turn? Idk how well that set works in an OU meta context specifically, but I do know that Perish Trapping is kind of its claim to fame, especially this gen with the Flip Turn buff.

While Sun might be on the decline and Gouging Fire's not as threatening as it once was, what combination of two Fire moves do you fellow Goug Heads run on it? Heat Crash, Flare Blitz or Raging Fury?

The virgin [one of those options]

vs.

The chad Temper Flare + Burning Bulwark option select

(If you go for Burning Bulwark on a switch, it will fail, causing Temper Flare to be 150 base power next turn. Sets up for some niche win-win scenarios.)

 

[Heatranator]

While Sun might be on the decline and Gouging Fire's not as threatening as it once was, what combination of two Fire moves do you fellow Goug Heads run on it? Heat Crash, Flare Blitz or Raging Fury?

Each of them have their own pros and cons. Heat Crash's base power is inconsistent, especially with Great Tusk in the tier, but it doesn't cause recoil nor does it lock Gouging Fire in battle. Raging Fury and Flare Blitz are more consistent, but they either leave Gouging Fire prone to being revenge killed or worn down over the course of a game.

Shoutouts to the people who still run Adamant Choice Band because of the sheer adrenaline of clicking Tera Fire and watching Dondozo take 50%+, that will never not feel utterly addicting.

View attachment 620371

Adding onto the gouging fire sentiment, I've found two things that work for it. The first is tera flying, idk if people are running this, but when I used it, it seemed to be amazing on it. It allows you to set up on lando-t extremely easily, and a an opportunity to get another dd up on every other ground. The second is burning bulwark. I find it works really well and can allow gouging to survive longer, thus getting more attacks off. With a bulky attacker set, it can stomach any hits like defensive tusk's e-quake which only has a 0.1% chance to 3hit ko. It is really great against u-turn spam as well, especially in the lead matchup.

 

[Tio Chico]

While Sun might be on the decline and Gouging Fire's not as threatening as it once was, what combination of two Fire moves do you fellow Goug Heads run on it? Heat Crash, Flare Blitz or Raging Fury?

Each of them have their own pros and cons. Heat Crash's base power is inconsistent, especially with Great Tusk in the tier, but it doesn't cause recoil nor does it lock Gouging Fire in battle. Raging Fury and Flare Blitz are more consistent, but they either leave Gouging Fire prone to being revenge killed or worn down over the course of a game.

Shoutouts to the people who still run Adamant Choice Band because of the sheer adrenaline of clicking Tera Fire and watching Dondozo take 50%+, that will never not feel utterly addicting.

View attachment 620371

If your intention is to use Proto Speed to break offense, I recommend not sticking to Raging Fury.
Accepting the damage recoil, which is more consistent than losing against a glue Great Tusk that maybe takes Proto Defense and uses Tera Water. Just have some hazard control.
If your intention is to break stall and slow balance things, live without fear of finding a random Heatran and go Raging Fury to open craters and with Heat Crash for later cleaning.
Sometimes we just want to put some brain cells to rest and click a button, but the Tera meta won't allow us.