Solrock [QC 0/3]

[Misaka Mikoto]

Overview
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• Rock/Psychic typing gives it some fair resistances but also many weaknesses.
• Acceptable movepool which leads to a few possible sets.
  
• Decent attack stat and mediocre speed.

Stealth Rocks
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name: Stealth Rock Lead
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Morning Sun
move 3: Will-O-Wisp
move 4: Stone Edge
ability: Levitate
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
nature: Impish

Moves
========

• Stealth Rock allows for damage upon switch ins assisting offensive and defensive teams.
• Morning Sun helps restore 50% of the HP that's been lost. Also, this becomes weather dependent. Under sunny conditions restore ⅔ total HP, and other weather conditions restore ¼ total HP.
• Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers struggling in taking it down.
• Stone Edge

Set Details
========

• 252 HP to take hits from special attacks.
• Remaining 4 evs on special defense for a little extra bulk against special attackers.
• Levitate gives immunity for Ground types.
• Leftovers assists in recovering a little extra HP.

Usage Tips
========

• Need to get Stealth Rock out quickly as possible for passive damage and breaking sashes.
• Never keep it in against something that potentially threatens it unless it outspeeds or can Wil-o-Wisp it.
• Burning physical attackers, find openings to recover after loss of HP from Morning Sun.
• Never switch it into anything to take a special hit despite maximizing its special defense.

Team Options
========
Baton Passer
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name: Baton Passer
move 1: Rock Polish
move 2: Baton Pass
move 3: Cosmic Power
move 4: Will-O-Wisp
ability: Levitate
item: Weakness Policy
evs: 220 HP / 252 SpD / 36 Spe
nature: Calm

Moves
========

• Rock Polish boosts Solrock's speed by +2 being about to outspeed many foes and threats.
• Baton Pass helps pass Rock Polish to any pokemon of its choice especially onto sweepers.
• Cosmic Power increases both Defense and Special Defense making Solrock able to take hits accompanied by Will-O-Wisp especially on physical attackers.

Set Details
========

• 220 HP and Rock Polish would help for a nice possible sweep.
• 252 SpD and 220 HP gives it the extra bulk to survive special moves upon it.
• The remaining 36 speed will outspeed
• Weakness Policy acts more of a gimmick and is an alternate to Shell Smash without the extra speed boost after being hit by a super effective attack.

Usage Tips
========

• The main objective is to allow Solrock to be hit by an super effective attack for Weakness Policy to activate. Keeping it in against Pokemon that doesn't hit hard would make Baton Pass more successful.
• Despite the small increase in speed, Solrock needs to use Rock Polish as soon as Weakness Policy is used to outspeed and pass on stats to a member of it's team.
• Despite

Team Options
========

• Sweepers like Sneasel,
• 
  
• Any counters that would assist in helping Solrock set up Rock Polish.

Other Options
#######

• Overheat

Check and Counters
########

• **Dark and Ghosts Types** The two most important types that Solrock needs to watch out for. Especially users like Pawniard and Mismagius. STAB Knock Off puts Solrock at risk of being potentially OHKO by Pawniard Life Orb Liepard and. As for Mismagius,

• **Priority** Hard hitting Sucker Punch user such as Cacturne can make Solrock easily fall victim to it. Feraligator can 2-3HKO with Aqua Jet against an Impish nature. The same goes for Hariyama with Bullet Punch powered by Guts at full attack evs.
• 
  
• **Status** Can cripple Solrock.

 

[Raseri]

I'm fine with this being done, it will have to be done soon anyways. Not going to check this right now cause Ihave 0 experience with Solrock. But go ahead with the analysis

 

[Quite Quiet]

This just doesn't work for me, at all. You say it's used for Baton Pass, then the baton pass set isn't even the first set. Although frankly the only relevant niche I can see Solrock working for is abusing it's typing to counter things like Archeops (not LO Knock Off if it still got item) and Kangaskhan and perhaps the Trick Room setter set. Not dual screens from BW2 because Uxie exists.

Hide

overview:

Loads of useless information here:

• The point about Levitate
• Access to moves, they'll be listed right under it anyway so need to say it here too
• Don't need to know it's better in doubles, it's not relevant to NU
• It's Sun and Sand teams, though I have doubts there's any use for Solrock on a Sun team

The only really helpful points here is about the typing, movepool and speed, the rest aren't.

rock lead:

• Change this to just stealth rocker, it's not a dedicated lead set

set:

• I would like this to be 252 Def Impish over 252SpD Careful, since there's no Special attacker bar Pyroar and Typhlosion maybe that solrock would want to stay in on and typh never grabs the OHKO and Pyraor need Dark Pulse for it.

moves:

• Important to note Morning Sun is weather dependent in how much it heals

set details:

• Change this to def if you change the set
• Don't need to mention the 4 EVs, they won't make a difference

usage tips:

• The first tip isn't a tip for Solrock specifically, but more in general.
• The point about Morning Sun is confusing; it sounds like you lose HP from Morning Sun and need to get it back somehow. It's also two points turned into one for some reason.
• What's the point in max special bulk if you're suggesting to never ever switch in on special attackers? You also said in the last section the EVs was to take hits specially, but now you're saying to never get hit specially. This is all very confusing and not very helpful to people reading it.

team options:

• This wasn't a Sun set, so why is a sun sweeper the first thing that gets a mention here? If you want Grass/Poison types go for Vileplume who does a much better job at defensively supporting Solrock.
• Bastiodon might take hits well but it's very little synergy between the two that I can see. Ferroseed would be a much better option since it likes the Fire resist and can set Spikes for a hazard core, as well as taking water moves and stuff for Solrock.
• Mightyena isn't relevant, and is Tauros really the only attacker that can clean up threats for Solrock?

This just need a complete overhaul, there's not even anything on Dark types/moves like Knock Off and a lot of your picks are very niche mons that see little actual use.


rock polish:
This set seems sorta outclassed by the smashpassers we have since it's only passing speed so I'm not sure how useful this would even be to anyone. Personally I wouldn't mind this getting removed entirely but that's not my call

set:

• Switch SpD to speed, at least then you can use it for yourself if it's not getting passed

moves:

• Baton Pass doesn't help passing, it's the thing that makes the passing entirely
• Stone Edge is never used for the crit chance, remove that part
• Mention that Eq rounds off EdgeQuake coverage, it tells enough about what it hits

set details:

• Max speed here too
• "Adamant should be used due to Rock Polish" This makes very little sense and you never explain what you mean either

usage tips:

• Rock Polish boost speed, so Solrock still only hit with a passable 95 Attack so the first option shouldn't be attcking since you're using it to pass after all
• The next point is something that belong in team options and is useful to know
• You make it sound like every Ground-type attack user is choice locked and as soon as someone uses Eq it's safe to switch in. That's not the case in most situations
• The only Ghost type to outspeed Solrock after a Rock Polish is Timid Scarf Mismagius and Shadow Sneak from Dusknoir and Kecleon so it's very well possible to pass out from any of these threats or even KO as with LO it takes out Rotom and Haunter after rocks.

team options:

• Sneasel and Tauros doesn't need more speed to do their jobs, nor can they live the hit they take after getting the pass
  
• Solrock isn't a sweeper here, it's supporting other sweepers
• "Any counters that would assist in helping Solrock set up Rock Polish" doesn't tell anyone anything. I don't even know what you mean. There's no such thing as "counters that help Solrock set up".
  
• No mention at all for Pokemon like Hariyama, Pangoro, Specs Dragalge or Specs Exeggutor that would actually like the extra speed

trick room:
Name it Trick Room Support rather

set:

• Trick Room/Stealth Rock/Explosion/Stone Edge is probably a much more useful set since there are much stronger mons that can abuse the trick room than Solrock and it makes use of Solrock's unique movepool much better. It also doesn't stretch Solrock as much making it try to set both Trick Room, Stealth Rock as well as being offensive
• A bulky spread since you shouldn't be attacking with Solrock, but you could keep max attack to hit hard with explosion

moves:

• Solrock is actually decently fast, all things considered so I have my doubts it will go first in Trick Room always

set details:

• These sound exactly like the set details from the last ones, except reworded and in a different order and the point about Trick Room

usage tips:

• You're not using Trick Room to cripple the opponent, but to further boost your own team
• Telling them to not use the move that is most important on the set is counter-productive
  
• You don't want to waste turns setting up rocks in Trick Room, either do it outside or not at all
• No mention of using Explosion to bring in a team mate safely to clean up

team options:

• Hariyama and Gurdurr instead of Throh
• Need more examples than just anything that like Trick Room

oo:

• Light Clay, Reflect and Light Screen under one line named Dual Screens that explains what's in it. Make this the first thing in OO
• Remove pain split
  
• Cosmic Power only on Baton Pass sets

c&c:

• Don't list every single type it's weak to, it's not very helpful
  
• You keep mentioning Pokemon like Mightyena and Vespiquen that aren't relevant to the NU metagame at all
  
• Priority is mostly physical and while Solrock is weak to most types it's not crippled by it as much as it's weakened. Then you drag status in there, which only Liepard does priority status
  
• No mention at all of Pawniard
• I know Montsegur have a lot to say about this section

This entire analysis have sounded quite a bit like something that's more fitting in PU than NU to be honest, because there's really nothing in here that even reflects the NU metagame at all.

Team options in general needs to be fleshed out and expanded on, since currently none of them are particularly helpful. Most of the points in all sets doesn't help that much in understanding why Solrock deserves a spot on a team.

If QC approves I would like this as the first set, for its ability to check and counter a decent number of mons like non-LO Knock Off Archeops, Kangaskhan and Rhydon:

Hide

Solrock @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Will-O-Wisp
- Morning Sun
- Stone Edge / Rock Slide / Rock Tomb

 

[Lyren]

I haven't tried out Solrock much, but I'm surprised as much as baton pass is getting brought up there is no mention of the possibility of WP + endure. It has enough bulk and enough weaknesses that it seems reasonable enough to create the conditions of passing both a weakness policy and a rock polish (you're functionally smash passing at this point). While this might be nothing more than a gimmick, it's certainly a pretty powerful niche that Solrock has and seems like it could be a justification for using it.
(I'll test this set and come back with how well it works)

Also I feel like there should be a mention of Rock Tomb somewhere in the analysis. The first set especially is very obviously centered around supporting your teammates, and dropping something to -1 spe can suddenly let you check it with a lot more Pokemon. Though less powerful than rock slide, it still seems to break most subs with the exception of Kangaskhan (which might be a problem because it's supposed to counter khan). Regardless, Rock Tomb is still an effective way to force switches, which is an obvious boon for a hazard setter.

Overall I think this analysis just suffers from not pointing out the unique combination of things Solrock can do. Solrock is outclassed in just about every regard except for it's strangely diverse move pool. Try to focus more on specific situations where it can take advantage of being a rock setter with WoW and recovery. As QQ mentioned, being a trick room setter with explosion is a big deal (at least in context to Solrock). There are a few T-room setters (like Exeggutor), that can both set trick room and abuse it to a much stronger degree then Solrock, but the reason you'd want to use Solrock as a trick room setter is because you have the option of explosion. You want the momentum of the free switch to get the most you possibly can out of T-room, so calling it "last resort" is really underselling a big appeal of the set.

 

[Misaka Mikoto]

[/hide]
This entire analysis have sounded quite a bit like something that's more fitting in PU than NU to be honest, because there's really nothing in here that even reflects the NU metagame at all.

Team options in general needs to be fleshed out and expanded on, since currently none of them are particularly helpful. Most of the points in all sets doesn't help that much in understanding why Solrock deserves a spot on a team.

If QC approves I would like this as the first set, for its ability to check and counter a decent number of mons like non-LO Knock Off Archeops, Kangaskhan and Rhydon:

Hide

Solrock @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Will-O-Wisp
- Morning Sun
- Stone Edge / Rock Slide / Rock Tomb

I was told not to mention NU in the analysis which is why I mentioned non NU Pokemon in the analysis in the first place. Otherwise, I would have mentioned pokemon like Hariyama would have been in the analysis. Also despite Solrock being decently fast, You can run a Relaxed or Sassy nature to make better use of Trick Room which is what I should have added in this. I realized that Solrock can make use of Polish Pass along with Weakness Policy attached to it. Most pokemon like to carry Knock Off so thinking of it, I did test what SolarisFox said and that it does indeed work and need investment upon HP and defenses for this tactic to work. Swept half a team with Feraligatr with the exception of getting damaged by the foe along with the Life Orb on top of that. I forgot to remove Sunny Day and Sandstorm. Pretty much everything that you explained in reflectance to Solrock, I can explain about the NU metagame much more easier since I now know I can make this analysis more fitting to other's liking...well now since I don't need to talk about PU.

I did show Mont about this as well on PS considering he does NU. But I will make improvements upon this and change this entire analysis. I'm glad for the criticism btw along with the feedback. n_n
If you don't mind, I will possibly provide a few replays upon Solrock. If that's okay with you.

 

[Quite Quiet]

I was told not to mention NU in the analysis which is why I mentioned non NU Pokemon in the analysis in the first place. Otherwise, I would have mentioned pokemon like Hariyama would have been in the analysis. Also despite Solrock being decently fast, You can run a Relaxed or Sassy nature to make better use of Trick Room which is what I should have added in this. I realized that Solrock can make use of Polish Pass along with Weakness Policy attached to it. Most pokemon like to carry Knock Off so thinking of it, I did test what SolarisFox said and that it does indeed work and need investment upon HP and defenses for this tactic to work. Swept half a team with Feraligatr with the exception of getting damaged by the foe along with the Life Orb on top of that. I forgot to remove Sunny Day and Sandstorm. Pretty much everything that you explained in reflectance to Solrock, I can explain about the NU metagame much more easier since I now know I can make this analysis more fitting to other's liking...well now since I don't need to talk about PU.

I did show Mont about this as well on PS considering he does NU. But I will make improvements upon this and change this entire analysis. I'm glad for the criticism btw along with the feedback. n_n
If you don't mind, I will possibly provide a few replays upon Solrock. If that's okay with you.

The point about not mentioning NU is mentioning the tier by name specifically, not the mons that are currently in it. If none of the analyses mentioned any relevant pokemon they'd be really useless to be honest. And my point about speed is that even with a -speed nature it's still faster than most base 40-50 pokemon that do very nicely in Trick Room, so it's very likely you'll get undersped either way. You did mention a relaxed nature, but it's not worth it over going boom and letting something with more power behind it run free for 3 turns.

 

[marilli]

I think the defensive set is really interesting especially because it counters a lot of top physical mons due to its typing (Kang, Rhydon, Archeops), while also doing not bad against special threats like Typh / Pyroar / Xatu. The special threats part makes me really want to put in some SpD investment so it checks fire-types more solidly, so I ran some damage calcs. It's all but numbers so I'll test it out in games too, but the numbers give good insight to how the set should pan out in a real match.

It seems that even with max SpD, you get 2HKOed by Typh Eruption regardless, which means that maximum investment in Special Defense is suboptimal. Fiddling with the damage calculator 156 SpD EVs with no nature investment are enough to tank 2 fire blasts from choice specs typh fire blast instead switching into SR, which is good enough and you should not invest in any more special defense than this. If you have a fire-type check like Hariyama paired with him, you should go fully defensive to make best use of his subpar base stats. I'd say 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD Impish goes on the main set, and mention the specially defensive spread of 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SpD Impish on set comments. Obviously trying to switch in Solrock into fire-types should be avoided if possible, but it helps.

Stone Edge is better than Rock Slide. You check the physical threats well enough without an attack because of Will-o-Wisp, unless they carry substitute, of course. Stone Edge is the only rock-type move that OHKOs Pyroar and Typhlosion after SR, and that alone is good enough to give it the first slash. It is also the only move that does more than 50% to Xatu switch-ins, which is great because you get to pressure it from switching much, and whenever it does come in, it has to basically roost every time. I'm not sold on Zen Headbutt, but Rock Tomb sounds very interesting, probably worth the slash. I'll try using them both and come back to you on that one.

Just switch out all the PU Pokemon to relevant NU threats, and by then I would have used this thing, so I'll give you a proper check, alright?

 

[Punchshroom]

Not gonna lie, this analysis is already somewhat headed for the wrong direction. You want to mention Solrock's strong points and what makes it worth using over other Pokemon, because keep in mind that it is pretty mediocre overall.

The Overview needs to place greater emphasis on its resistances, access to reliable recovery, and usable physical defense (over Lunatone) makes Solrock one of the most effective Kangaskhan, Tauros, Rhydon, and Archeops responses in the tier. This by extension means that wall Solrock is more suited for physical defense, unlike the specially defensive spread you listed; special defense really won't save Solrock against the numerous Grass-, Water-, and Ghost-type attacks in the tier. You also mispelled Will-O-Wisp.

Not a fan of the current Baton Pass spread, it shouldn't really take an offensive approach since its Attack stat is just too weak, and its sweeping ability pales in comparison to the likes of Rock Polish Rhydon or Smash Costa / Barbaracle. Baton Pass Solrock should focus purely on a successful pass, utilising its defensive typing and access to recovery to succeed over other Baton Passers, most notably Lopunny which can pass Cosmic Power and +2 Speed boosts (in Lopunny's case, it would be Agility), or Ninjask which can pass Speed boosts with outright impunity. You really need to dig deep as to why one would use Baton Pass Solrock over other Baton Passers.

Trick Room Solrock probably wants Focus Sash over Leftovers; longevity is not the name of the game when Solrock is very vulnerable to many things, and Sash allows Solrock to set up both TR and SR / Explode against faster opponents without priority as opposed to getting OHKOed / forced out. Trick Room Solrock is almost solely dedicated to letting its fellow Trick Room sweepers take the early advantage, so having both Stealth Rock and Explosion is pretty important for Solrock, while Earthquake is not very useful for it; in fact the attack is simply so Solrock can actually fight back, not to do actual damage. Emphasize that Trick Room Solrock competes very heavily for a teamslot with Carbink, which not only offers the same Trick Room + Stealth Rock + Explosion support, but also has Fairy-typing to resist Dark and Bug (as opposed to being weak to it) as well as Sturdy (meaning it can afford Mental Herb or Lum Berry to evade Taunt and sleep respectively).

Many of the things listed in OO are for the most part bad or outclassed. Choice Band Solrock is too weak and slow to be an effective attacker. Dual screens + Light Clay is straight up done better by Uxie, which is bulkier and has less weaknesses; same goes for Magic Coat. There is no reason to consider Pain Split when Solrock already has Morning Sun to heal itself.

Amarillo if I want a 'Solrock that can respond to Fire-types', I would rather use Lunatone instead :P.

 

[Misaka Mikoto]

I'll be sure to implement changes on the analysis. Also, I'll be testing Trick Room Solrock in NU on an alt to see how well it officially does. I'm still testing the Rock Polish and Baton Pass with Weakness Policy on it in the meantime. It provides some usefulness and it actually works.

 

[Ares]

iplaybatonpasslol, I mean iplaytennislol has used the baton pass set to great success, I would get his opinion on it on wether its good enough for a set.

 

[Misaka Mikoto]

I'll make sure I contact him. ^^

 

[Gourghost]

My thoughts , but really, the last set needs 0 IVs to guarantee even in more situations to move first.

Also, in c&c, rename priortiy to status. You mention status moves, not priority ones. Also Tauros with Iron Head is really rare so another example may be better.

 

[Misaka Mikoto]

iplaybatonpasslol, I mean iplaytennislol has used the baton pass set to great success, I would get his opinion on it on wether its good enough for a set.

Tested iplaytennislol suggestion with Baton Pass Solrock and works very well with Seis as its helper. Implemented the moves along with the evs that went with it. n_n
Still testing Trick Room at the moment and afterwords, I'll redo that section and the other sets.

 

[soulgazer]

Lucina09 please do everything that Amarillo talked about in his post. Only set should be the Physically Defensive one he talked about and the Baton Pass one from iplaytennislol should get a good mention in Other Options.

Tag me when you are done

 

[Ares]

Lucina09 you have 24 hours to reply and 72 hours to update this to ORAS standards or this is going to be reassigned. Also hint: the main set should be something to take on Mega Camerupt.