Smogon's Top Video Games List - Stage 2 (Current topic - REDEMPTIONS)

Uncharted 2: Among Thieves
Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune
Unreal
Unreal Tournament
Vagrant Story YES
Viewtiful Joe YES
Viva Piñata (Xbox 360)
Viva Piñata: Pocket Paradise
Warcraft 2
Warcraft 3
Wario Blast
Wario Land 3 YES
Wario Land 4 YES
Warioware: Mega Microgame$ YES
WarioWare: Twisted! YES
We <3 Katamari
Wii Sports YES
Wolfenstein 3D
World of Goo
World of Warcraft
Worms 2
Worms 3D
Worms Armageddon
wwf smackdown 2
Xenoblade Chronicles YES
Zombies Ate My Neighbors! YES
 

vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
Uncharted 2: Among Thieves Yes
Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception Yes
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune Yes
Unreal Yes
Unreal Tournament Yes
Vagrant Story Yes
Viewtiful Joe Yes
Viva Piñata (Xbox 360) Yes
Viva Piñata: Pocket Paradise Yes
Warcraft 2 Yes
Warcraft 3 Yes
Wario Blast Yes
Wario Land 3 Yes
Wario Land 4 Yes
Warioware: Mega Microgame$ Yes
WarioWare: Twisted! Yes
We <3 Katamari Yes
Wii Sports Yes
Wolfenstein 3D Yes
World of Goo Yes
World of Warcraft Yes
Worms 2 Yes
Worms 3D Yes
Worms Armageddon Yes
wwf smackdown 2 Yes
Xenoblade Chronicles Yes
Zombies Ate My Neighbors Yes
 
Uncharted 2: Among Thieves
Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune
Unreal Yes
Unreal Tournament Yes
Vagrant Story
Viewtiful Joe
Viva Piñata (Xbox 360) No
Viva Piñata: Pocket Paradise
Warcraft 2 Yes
Warcraft 3 Yes
Wario Blast Yes
Wario Land 3 Yes
Wario Land 4 Yes
Warioware: Mega Microgame$
WarioWare: Twisted! Yes
We <3 Katamari Yes
Wii Sports NO
Wolfenstein 3D Yes
World of Goo Yes
World of Warcraft NO
Worms 2
Worms 3D
Worms Armageddon
wwf smackdown 2
Xenoblade Chronicles
Zombies Ate My Neighbors
 
Uncharted 2: Among Thieves ABSTAIN
Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception ABSTAIN
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune ABSTAIN
Unreal ABSTAIN
Unreal Tournament ABSTAIN
Vagrant Story ABSTAIN
Viewtiful Joe NO
Viva Piñata (Xbox 360) ABSTAIN
Viva Piñata: Pocket Paradise ABSTAIN
Warcraft 2 ABSTAIN
Warcraft 3 YES
Wario Blast ABSTAIN
Wario Land 3 NO
Wario Land 4 ABSTAIN
Warioware: Mega Microgame$ ABSTAIN
WarioWare: Twisted! ABSTAIN
We <3 Katamari ABSTAIN
Wii Sports NO
Wolfenstein 3D ABSTAIN
World of Goo ABSTAIN
World of Warcraft YES
Worms 2 ABSTAIN
Worms 3D ABSTAIN
Worms Armageddon ABSTAIN
wwf smackdown 2 NO
Xenoblade Chronicles ABSTAIN
Zombies Ate My Neighbors! ABSTAIN
 
Uncharted 2: Among Thieves ABSTAIN
Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception ABSTAIN
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune ABSTAIN
Unreal YES
Unreal Tournament YES
Vagrant Story ABSTAIN
Viewtiful Joe ABSTAIN
Viva Piñata (Xbox 360) ABSTAIN
Viva Piñata: Pocket Paradise ABSTAIN
Warcraft 2 ABSTAIN
Warcraft 3 ABSTAIN
Wario Blast ABSTAIN
Wario Land 3 ABSTAIN
Wario Land 4 ABSTAIN
Warioware: Mega Microgame$ YES
WarioWare: Twisted! ABSTAIN
We <3 Katamari ABSTAIN
Wii Sports ABSTAIN
Wolfenstein 3D YES
World of Goo NO
World of Warcraft ABSTAIN
Worms 2 YES
Worms 3D NO
Worms Armageddon YES
wwf smackdown 2 ABSTAIN
Xenoblade Chronicles ABSTAIN
Zombies Ate My Neighbors! ABSTAIN
 
What are you talking about? It's already out (in Europe, at least).
i know. america doesn't have a set release date yet. (or right now it might but it didn't for the longest time)

edit: current one is august 14th. won't be surprised if it changes for the 6th time.
 

breh

強いだね
Uncharted 2: Among Thieves
Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune
Unreal
Unreal Tournament
Vagrant Story
Viewtiful Joe YES
Viva Piñata (Xbox 360)
Viva Piñata: Pocket Paradise
Warcraft 2
Warcraft 3
Wario Blast
Wario Land 3
Wario Land 4
Warioware: Mega Microgame$
WarioWare: Twisted!
We <3 Katamari
Wii Sports NO
Wolfenstein 3D
World of Goo NO
World of Warcraft
Worms 2
Worms 3D
Worms Armageddon
wwf smackdown 2
Xenoblade Chronicles
Zombies Ate My Neighbors!
 

aVocado

@ Everstone
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Uncharted 2: Among Thieves NO
Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune NO (horrible game.)
Unreal
Unreal Tournament
Vagrant Story
Viewtiful Joe YES
Viva Piñata (Xbox 360)
Viva Piñata: Pocket Paradise
Warcraft 2
Warcraft 3
Wario Blast
Wario Land 3
Wario Land 4
Warioware: Mega Microgame$
WarioWare: Twisted!
We <3 Katamari
Wii Sports YES
Wolfenstein 3D
World of Goo YES
World of Warcraft
Worms 2
Worms 3D
Worms Armageddon
wwf smackdown 2
Xenoblade Chronicles
Zombies Ate My Neighbors!
 

Focus

Ubers Tester Extraordinaire
Uncharted 2: Among Thieves Abstain
Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception Abstain
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune Abstain
Unreal Abstain
Unreal Tournament Abstain
Vagrant Story Abstain
Viewtiful Joe Abstain
Viva Piñata (Xbox 360) Abstain
Viva Piñata: Pocket Paradise Abstain
Warcraft 2 Abstain
Warcraft 3 Abstain
Wario Blast Abstain
Wario Land 3 Abstain
Wario Land 4 Yes
Warioware: Mega Microgame$ Abstain
WarioWare: Twisted! Abstain
We <3 Katamari Abstain
Wii Sports No
Wolfenstein 3D Abstain
World of Goo Abstain
World of Warcraft Abstain
Worms 2 Abstain
Worms 3D Abstain
Worms Armageddon Abstain
wwf smackdown 2 Abstain
Xenoblade Chronicles Abstain
Zombies Ate My Neighbors Abstain
 

WaterBomb

Two kids no brane
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Group 19 has completed, and the following games are gone:

Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception
Viva Piñata (Xbox 360)
Wii Sports
World of Warcraft
Worms 3D
wwf smackdown 2

And that, ladies and gentlemen, concludes the elimination voting! Phase 2 is almost complete, all we have left to do is to discuss the few redemptions that were proposed. The following games are up for redemption:

Madden 2005
Call of Duty
Frogger
Prince of Persia: Sands of Time

Please discuss why they should/should not be given a second chance. We will wrap this up in a couple of days or so.
 
madden 05 basically introduced the hit stick to NFL games. Easily the best game (American football) of its time, and probably the next few years as well.
 

yond

mitt game strong
is a Three-Time Past WCoP Champion
I think Call of Duty 2 and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare both deserve reconsiders as well as Madden 2k5 for all previous reasons stated across this thread. (that i don't feel like retyping)
 

WaterBomb

Two kids no brane
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
One thing to mention, I wasn't sure which Call of Duty was the best one since I haven't played them myself. Wanted to figure out which actual game should be considered for redemption, since I just listed the original.
 
Call of Duty 1 and 2 were two extremely polished WW2 shooters and widely considered the best of its generation (better than MoH Allied Assault imo which was an amazing game in itself). CoD4 probably deserves mention too for being so good that it dominated multiplayer FPS gaming and established a dynasty of cashcows ala Halo but I never played any CoD after 3.

Another game I can't believe got kicked out is World of Warcraft... One of the most polished, well made, and well loved MMO of all time... It defined a whole genre and continues to dominate. It surely has to be the first MMO on the list? Even considering the likes of Ultima Online and Everquest. No MMO has come close to how good or popular WoW has been I don't think.
 

WaterBomb

Two kids no brane
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I have to disagree with you on WoW. Just because a game is popular does not make it good, as MMOs are designed to be popular. The game itself is frustratingly repetitive, and the fact that you're required to be online and on a particular server to play kind of limits it. I realize that each server has its own custom layout, but none allow you to escape from the inevitable grind that the game quickly becomes.

Honestly, I think all MMOs suffer from the same issue in general, in that the quality of the gameplay is reliant on the creativity of the players themselves and not the inherent game design. An "open-ended concept", as it were, is a novel idea but leaves the fun up to the players to have with very little input from the game itself, thus defeating it from the list.
 
I am behind redeeming Madden 05 and Frogger. Madden 05 was a great game that pioneered the current madden style with the hit stick. I had a lot of fun with this game.
Frogger is Frogger. Its a great game that really everyone knows. Its a classic with an interesting puzzle style of gameplay.

I havent played the other games so I cant speak for them.
 

vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
World of Warcraft
We don't have Everquest. We don't have Ultima Online. We don't even have Guild Wars. We have no MMORPGs right now and the things you think they "suffer" from are the things that millions of players like about them. How can this be a valid list when a whole genre is being written off? No MMO has ever appealed to me to the point that I'd want to invest months into it, but having tried out several I must say that WoW is easily the best designed. After trying every class they were all unique and fun, and a cooldown system (and just smart design) allowed you to use all of the skills you have (at least up to the point I played, but we're talking 10 or so skills to manage which is very high).

Call of Duty 4
I've died a couple hundred thousand times in video games. But you don't really experience death until you are crawling from the wreckage of your downed chopper, skin melting from radiation. Nothing is comparable to the desperate last stand as your comrades are one by one executed by the villain. There is genuine art at work here.

Diablo 3
If we are arguing for redemption I'm going to suggest Diablo 3 again. It's new, and many people are still blinded by nostalgia for a 12 year old rpg. If you want just the best games on your list, you want Diablo 3. Freeing up resource systems, giving players more than two different abilities to use at once, getting rid of basic attacks, the absolute variety of 125 abilities per character before passives, the fact that all abilities scale, the lack of dead levels, the introduction of cooldowns and other systems to encourage diversity (generator/spenders), that is 7 things that every Diablo clone should have from now on. Diablo 3 is one of the biggest improvements as a sequel ever, and should be seen as a genre changer.

Dragon Age: Origins
Dragon Age: Origins. Who the fuck voted no? Ok, I'm not Bioware's best friend at the moment but Dragon Age was the best Bioware game, and even really the best d&d esque fantasy game ever made. This is another prime role model for RPGs (one that the above Diablo 3 may have taken things from), requiring a great amount of strategy. You could script your allies and use a variety of abilities diversified by cooldowns. The mechanic for active abilities was genius. Each class had a variety of builds you could use, and damn that mage. Dragon Age is THE video game for playing mages. Then there is the surprisingly fresh story and always great characters. The ending even delivered. Remember when endings could just be good and show you what the effects of your actions were? Good times.

This was also right before you switched back to open voting, and there are quite a few questionable games left out in that vote (Skyrim, Fallout 3, some others).

Oregon Trail 2
Simply put we ended up with more yes votes than no after the deadline. Rigidly enforcing deadlines like this is not going to lead to a more accurate list. I don't know how many other games would survive if we went back and did housekeeping, but when it concerns the series that introduced many kids to computer gaming yeah I'll speak up about it.

League of Legends
Let's not delude ourselves as to why both this and DotA lost. There is a big pissing match between fans of both games. Well I voted Yes for DotA and was the person who even argued for it to be kept in the pool at all, so if anyone feels like bringing their fanboy bullshit into this they can suck my dick. LoL has dozens of Smogoners playing it every day who can come in and vouch for this game. It really is a genre unlike any other, and one of the best multiplayer games I have ever played.

Other games I'll chime in on later;
Civilizations 5
Marvel vs. Capcom 2
Metroid Fusion
Prince of Persia; Sands of Time
Resident Evil REmake
Skies of Arcadia
 
Frogger has simply not aged well at all. To the point of the game not really being all that fun. Compare it with Super Mario Bros. or Pac-Man, games that are also technologically primitive, but still played often today. Frogger is just not very enjoyable to play. That is all.
 

Focus

Ubers Tester Extraordinaire
Yes to Frogger if only for the fact that it is in my personal Top 100 Games That I've Actually Played list; I don't outright hate it, and I've barely played 100 different video games.
 
I'd have to disagree on redeeming Dragon Age Origins, I admit I haven't finished it but I can list out the reasons why I put it down. The combat, skills and items were really predictable and repetitive. It was really hard to get immersed in it the same way I got immersed in Skyrim, or KOTOR.

I was pretty excited for it since I hadn't played a Bioware game since Jade Empire (I didn't play any of the Mass Effects) but as I played through the 10 hours or so of Dragon Age it seemed to become more and more of a grind, of fetch and kill missions and they haven't changed the mechanics much at all since Neverwinter Nights. It really felt like an HD skin over Neverwinter Nights or KOTOR which felt really stiff and outdated for a modern game. Besthesda's work since Morrowind is a much better showcase for modern western RPGs imo. (I haven't played Diablo 3)
 

vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
It really felt like an HD skin over Neverwinter Nights or KOTOR which felt really stiff and outdated for a modern game.
You are nuts.

I love KOTOR for its story. I really do. And I'd probably put it somewhere on my top 100. But it's a horrifying stripped down D20 game where two weapon fighting ridiculously outclasses everything else. Hell, Baldur's Gate and NWN are only good games in spite of being rough translations of D20 gameplay, it's really not a good idea and the history of western rpgs reflects that. If you really think the mechanics haven't changed when they've dropped the d20 system, you are not paying attention.

Bioware at the time of Dragon Age was also about making compelling and stories, and Dragon Age is arguably one of the their best. Bethesda is certainly indicative of common wrpg thought processes; a vast soulless waste devoid of character or storytelling only somewhat remedied by Skyrim, and a thuggish combat system where the only strategy is pausing and chugging potions. Me I'll take the tactical gameplay and thought provoking characters of Dragon Age any day.
 

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