Aside from those Pokemon that are Ubers by tiering, everything else on the rankings is there because it serves a specific niche in the metagame, not just if it has a high base Attack stat or something. For instance, Celesteela walls nearly every support Arceus formes and some SD variants as well, while Tapu Lele is able to set Psychic Terrain to support hard-hitting teammates such as Deo-A. In comparison, Hoopa-U is extremely vulnerable to any physical hit, lacks adequate support moves and the bulk to make support sets viable, and isn't helped by the growing prominence of Dark-types (it wasn't particularly good last gen either). The only type of build I could see it fitting on would be Trick Room, but that's shaky at best and would need more experimentation.
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Resource SM Ubers Viability Ranking Thread (Final SM Update - #479)
- Thread starter Nayrz
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kilometerman
Banned deucer.
I know some people have already said this, but Yveltal doesn't belong in S. There's far too many things that wall it that are great on their own, and overall it just doesn't have the versatility to be there. I know this is early meta, but come on. This is worse than Ho-Oh being S rank back in ORAS.
The S rank is for mons that have amazing versatility, can fit on pretty much every team, can run multiple viable sets, and are just good in general. Yveltal only fits on specifically offensive teams. It can't work on balance, and doesn't do well on the more bulky offensive teams either. I would say more, but others have already layed out the points pretty well.
The S rank is for mons that have amazing versatility, can fit on pretty much every team, can run multiple viable sets, and are just good in general. Yveltal only fits on specifically offensive teams. It can't work on balance, and doesn't do well on the more bulky offensive teams either. I would say more, but others have already layed out the points pretty well.
kilometerman
Banned deucer.
Arceus-Fairy: B --> A-
I've been playing around with this thing and it works great this gen. Not particularly the Calm Mind set, but more the support set. It's a great switch-in for Rayquaza, Yveltal, Zygod, and Mega Mence, and can offer the basic hazard support we all know from waterceus. and also, as opposed to waterceus, it can offer that same level of support while also having significant offensive presence. there's not a whole lot of things that can switch into Judgement.
It's essentially a waterceus for psychic terrain teams/teams weak to yveltal.
I've been playing around with this thing and it works great this gen. Not particularly the Calm Mind set, but more the support set. It's a great switch-in for Rayquaza, Yveltal, Zygod, and Mega Mence, and can offer the basic hazard support we all know from waterceus. and also, as opposed to waterceus, it can offer that same level of support while also having significant offensive presence. there's not a whole lot of things that can switch into Judgement.
It's essentially a waterceus for psychic terrain teams/teams weak to yveltal.
pyu
formerly pyubae
Primal Kyogre A- ---> A
Primal Kyogre is much better in gen 7 than it was in gen 6, and I think it warrants a move to the bottom of A. The most notable new mon that it kills is Zygarde - P. It still acts as a decent switch in to Primal Groudon if you predict rock slide/lava plume, and it has only gotten better with the addition of Zygarde-P, the popularity of Yveltal, the popularity of Groundceus, the popularity of Ttar and Excadrill, etc. It really thrives in the current meta, and I think that especially with the Latis soul dew nerf, which means it can run ice beam over blizzard and enjoy very few resistances (bar Pdon) to origin pulse, it is a great mon to have as defogging arceus forms such as arceus water and arceus ground can't switch into thunder and origin pulse respectively, and Giratina-O, allowing it to function as a great partner to Primal Don, among many other mons, which thrive off Kyogre's ability to check them. For these reasons, I think Primal Kyogre definitely fits the budget for a rise to A rank
Primal Kyogre is much better in gen 7 than it was in gen 6, and I think it warrants a move to the bottom of A. The most notable new mon that it kills is Zygarde - P. It still acts as a decent switch in to Primal Groudon if you predict rock slide/lava plume, and it has only gotten better with the addition of Zygarde-P, the popularity of Yveltal, the popularity of Groundceus, the popularity of Ttar and Excadrill, etc. It really thrives in the current meta, and I think that especially with the Latis soul dew nerf, which means it can run ice beam over blizzard and enjoy very few resistances (bar Pdon) to origin pulse, it is a great mon to have as defogging arceus forms such as arceus water and arceus ground can't switch into thunder and origin pulse respectively, and Giratina-O, allowing it to function as a great partner to Primal Don, among many other mons, which thrive off Kyogre's ability to check them. For these reasons, I think Primal Kyogre definitely fits the budget for a rise to A rank
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pyu
formerly pyubae
Magearna
I see what you mean, but nearly all of the pokemon that have 90 base speed never (or very rarely) run max speed. It is definitely not setup bait for xerneas, though. IIRC, gunk shot ohkos every xerneas form, doesnt matter if its choiced or orbed. It can act as a decent revenge killer with scarf, and has great coverage. While it for sure has massive holes, it certainly doesnt deserve to be unranked.
I think that's wrong. It has to be Choice Band to be a guaranteed OHKO regardless of Attack+ nature or not, else with Life Orb it's a 50% chance to OHKO unless you run an Attack boosting nature, in which case it is a guaranteed kill on Xerneas. And I said that the threat of Moonblast KOing can force out Hoopa-U and give Xern a free turn to set up Geomancy.
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252+ Atk Hoopa-Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 184 HP / 28 Def Xerneas: 340-402 (77.4 - 91.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Acid Downpour vs. 184 HP / 28 Def Xerneas: 490-578 (111.6 - 131.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I'm sorry to tell you that your wrong HeavyWeaponsMann. It actually has a 38% chance to OHKO due to Gunk Shot's 30% chance of Poisoning, even factoring in 80% accuracy. And in what situation do you switch directly into Hoopa-U with your Xerneas? Also, why are you saying Hoopa-U shouldn't be ranked at all because of 1 Pokemon. Everything has checks and counters. If Arceus-Psychic and Deoxys-Normal can get ranked, so should Hoopa-U at least D.
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Hoopa-Unbound is OU currently in Gen 7, so it does not have to be ranked at this time.
And no, we are not going to rank it until we have to, because Hoopa-U is not good.
I was responding to the Xerneas argument and calced using a Life Orb. Z-moves wouldn't be very good on Hoopa-U, as it has a high opportunity cost in not being able to run Z-moves on other Pokemon such as Ghostceus and Xerneas (Z-Geomancy is terrifying due to +3 Special Attack, Special Defense, and Speed.) Solgaleo Sunsteel Strike from the Offensive utility set is a guaranteed OHKO, so most physical attacks can weaken it (with Return from a Bulky Dragon Dance set taking out around half health) or outright kill it.
pyu
formerly pyubae
First of all, Z Geomancy is high cost. It allows you to switch into primal groudon, no matter how much health, or a different phazer and then just roar, and you have no chance to get out of it, since your in a two turn geomancy. Second of all ghostceus isnt even close to being the most highly used arceus, and ekiller is still the higher usage arceus, and arceus water is a defogger and overall higher usage arceus. Third of all, how many mons do you know of can switch into a banded knock off from 252 attack?
The fundamental problems with Hoopa-U are its frailty and its pretty crap Speed. The power doesn't matter if you don't move first against anything but balance mons and you die to most physical attacks. It has good coverage but no true way to use it effectively. Z-moves involving set-up are incredibly volatile and can only be used in certain comps (i.e. Z-Splash Solgaleo is more common on Webs), and the most common carriers of Z-moves only use it to enhance their damage output (Darkrai, SD Arceus formes, etc). Hoopa-U does not benefit from Z-moves as much as other less viable Pokemon have since it doesn't give it a way to circumvent its main problems (Z-Snatch is an exception but is basically just as vulnerable and Snatch doesn't benefit Hoopa-U outside of setup). Its power isn't really that special as I can just use Yveltal as a better Dark-type or Lunala for a Psychic-type with great coverage that actually patches up its weaknesses pretty well. Its core problems and complete lack of defensive synergy in any way coupled with it not being banned from OU means Hoopa-U pretty much isn't going to be ranked.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but most Z Geomancy sets run Ingrain, right? In that case, phasers can't do anything to Xerneas, but attempt to take it out. And that isn't exactly easy.
252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. +1 248 HP / 252+ Def Xerneas: 136-162 (29.8 - 35.5%) -- 27.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (Don't know if there is a different EV spread, and I put leftovers on Xerneas, since Ingrain provides leftovers recovery)
0 SpA Groudon-Primal Lava Plume vs. +1 248 HP / 8 SpD Xerneas: 126-148 (27.6 - 32.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
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There is no label for the S rank. If a mon is good enough it gets in there. Whether or not Yveltal can run multiple sets or fit onto multiple teams does not matter. It's how good it is at its job. And I think Yveltal is doing good enough to be S-rank
After some deliberation amongst the VR council of everyone's posts, we've decided to make the following changes:
The arguments for each rise and drop primarily follow from everyone's posts. You may notice that Muk-Alola has risen despite no formal nominations. The VR council has decided to give it a raise due to its strong showing in high-level play, being a highly useful component of defensive teams to take out problematic Ghost- and Psychic-types such as Lunala, Deoxys-A, and Mega Gengar that ordinarily pose a massive threat to such teams, while acting as a soft-check to offensive Dark- and Fairy-types. Poison Touch and tools such as Knock Off also limit Muk's passiveness against most targets save things like Mega Lucario.
There were some other noms that were not accepted. Here's some brief explanations detailing why:
Lunala - Lunala's presence is one of the main reasons why most teams need a Ghost resist nowadays, so it's metagame impact certainly shouldn't be ignored. However, Lunala is somewhat difficult to fit on a team due to its murky defensive synergy. While Shadow Shield enables it to survive a massive range of attacks, its lack of useful resistances inhibit its ability to actually switch into threats and it struggles to get the most out of its useful defensive properties (Normal/Fighting immunities) without using a Choice Scarf. The increase in Muk usage on defensive teams is also a detriment to Lunala's ability to break cores as it lacks solid coverage options for dealing with it. The sheer offensive threat Lunala poses is good enough to give it a spot in the A ranks, but its limited defensive synergy keeps it from going higher than A-.
Zygarde - Zygarde can run into some trouble transforming in practice due to Power Contruct's interaction with Leftovers, and its low offensive power and 4x Ice weakness can be exploited. I think this mon could potentially rise in the future, but I'd like to see some more usage of it in high-level play (no the SubCoil set is not reliable, as fun as it is) before considering it for a bump.
Tapu Koko - While Koko is a good offensive check to Kyogre, Ho-Oh, and Yveltal, it can't actually switch into any of these threats, limiting it more to the role of a revenge killer. Koko also faces extremely stiff competition with Xerneas (I don't think I need to explain how good Xerneas is) for that Fairy slot on offensive teams and struggles to break Electric-type resists on its own (though Nature's Madness is useful for PDon at least), and its offense becomes extremely limited once its Z-move is consumed.
Dugtrio - Dugtrio's niche is fairly useful, but it also confers essentially zero defensive synergy, is very weak once its Z-move is used, and has little versatility outside of its niche. It also tends to be weight against hyper offense teams as Dugtrio can't reliably pin down Primal Groudon if its packing Rock Polish. Dugtrio essentially requires a team built around abusing Arena Trap in order to justify it, which isn't really a quality of a B rank mon.
Landorus-I - While Landorus-I is probably better than most of the stuff in D rank, it doesn't offer too much defensive synergy other than a somewhat decent switch into Primal Groudon and can still be checked by some balanced/BO staples such as Giratina-O and Blissey, plus it is rather easy to revenge kill by Scarfers and faster offensive threats such as Mega Lucario and Deoxys-A. B rank is way too much of a jump from something that was firmly in D last gen - a more modest rank increase might be appropriate in the future if Landorus-I sees more high-level play.
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S -> A+
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A- -> A
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C+ -> B-
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C+ -> B-
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B -> B+
The arguments for each rise and drop primarily follow from everyone's posts. You may notice that Muk-Alola has risen despite no formal nominations. The VR council has decided to give it a raise due to its strong showing in high-level play, being a highly useful component of defensive teams to take out problematic Ghost- and Psychic-types such as Lunala, Deoxys-A, and Mega Gengar that ordinarily pose a massive threat to such teams, while acting as a soft-check to offensive Dark- and Fairy-types. Poison Touch and tools such as Knock Off also limit Muk's passiveness against most targets save things like Mega Lucario.
There were some other noms that were not accepted. Here's some brief explanations detailing why:
Lunala - Lunala's presence is one of the main reasons why most teams need a Ghost resist nowadays, so it's metagame impact certainly shouldn't be ignored. However, Lunala is somewhat difficult to fit on a team due to its murky defensive synergy. While Shadow Shield enables it to survive a massive range of attacks, its lack of useful resistances inhibit its ability to actually switch into threats and it struggles to get the most out of its useful defensive properties (Normal/Fighting immunities) without using a Choice Scarf. The increase in Muk usage on defensive teams is also a detriment to Lunala's ability to break cores as it lacks solid coverage options for dealing with it. The sheer offensive threat Lunala poses is good enough to give it a spot in the A ranks, but its limited defensive synergy keeps it from going higher than A-.
Zygarde - Zygarde can run into some trouble transforming in practice due to Power Contruct's interaction with Leftovers, and its low offensive power and 4x Ice weakness can be exploited. I think this mon could potentially rise in the future, but I'd like to see some more usage of it in high-level play (no the SubCoil set is not reliable, as fun as it is) before considering it for a bump.
Tapu Koko - While Koko is a good offensive check to Kyogre, Ho-Oh, and Yveltal, it can't actually switch into any of these threats, limiting it more to the role of a revenge killer. Koko also faces extremely stiff competition with Xerneas (I don't think I need to explain how good Xerneas is) for that Fairy slot on offensive teams and struggles to break Electric-type resists on its own (though Nature's Madness is useful for PDon at least), and its offense becomes extremely limited once its Z-move is consumed.
Dugtrio - Dugtrio's niche is fairly useful, but it also confers essentially zero defensive synergy, is very weak once its Z-move is used, and has little versatility outside of its niche. It also tends to be weight against hyper offense teams as Dugtrio can't reliably pin down Primal Groudon if its packing Rock Polish. Dugtrio essentially requires a team built around abusing Arena Trap in order to justify it, which isn't really a quality of a B rank mon.
Landorus-I - While Landorus-I is probably better than most of the stuff in D rank, it doesn't offer too much defensive synergy other than a somewhat decent switch into Primal Groudon and can still be checked by some balanced/BO staples such as Giratina-O and Blissey, plus it is rather easy to revenge kill by Scarfers and faster offensive threats such as Mega Lucario and Deoxys-A. B rank is way too much of a jump from something that was firmly in D last gen - a more modest rank increase might be appropriate in the future if Landorus-I sees more high-level play.
Arceus-Dark: A- -> B+
This mon suffers from the same problem that Yveltal has suffered - the Dark-type buff has removed Prankster from common play, but has not done anything else to the utility of Dark-types. Arceus-Dark does not check anymore threats than it did in Gen 6 and is checked by a new, common (is 11.18% common?) threat in Magearna, which can easily take a Judgement to the face:
0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Magearna: 50-59 (13.7 - 16.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever
-even with 252+ SpA: 252+ SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Magearna: 66-78 (18.1 - 21.4%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
steal boosts with Heart Swap, and retaliate back with Fleur Cannon:
0 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 302-356 (68 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The Tapus (excluding Lele), whilst uncommon, also provide issues for Arceus-Dark:
Tapu Koko cannot switch into a +1 Arceus-Dark, but it can retaliate with Nature's Madness and Gigavolt Havoc:
252 SpA Tapu Koko Gigavolt Havoc vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 295-348 (66.4 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Fortunately for Arceus-Dark, Tapu Koko cannot kill a +1 Arceus-Dark, and is 2HKO'd by CM Judgement:
+1 0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Koko: 144-169 (51.2 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Tapu Bulu can also retaliate back - Fini can easily resist CM Judgement, but its lack of recovery lets it down and Misty Terrain acts as a double-edged sword toward status ailments.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Arceus-Dark: 387-456 (87.1 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
for those who wish to be a little more passive with Bulu usage:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Horn Leech vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Arceus-Dark: 241-285 (54.2 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
It also resists Judgement fairly well:
+1 0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Bulu: 118-139 (41.9 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
for those who want a tankier build:
+1 0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Bulu: 118-139 (34.3 - 40.4%) -- 48.2% chance to 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
(for these reasons, although not exclusive to Arceus-Dark - supportceus formes are also threatened by Bulu, like Waterceus and Groundceus, as well as neutral, uninvested defensively Arceus' - I request for Tapu Bulu to be ranked - optimistically to C-.)
To summarise: The inclusion of Magearna has left Arceus-Dark a little high and dry - being a true counter to Arceus-Dark. The Tapus - whilst very uncommon (Koko is 1.4%, Bulu and Fini are 0.4%) also check Darkceus.
This mon suffers from the same problem that Yveltal has suffered - the Dark-type buff has removed Prankster from common play, but has not done anything else to the utility of Dark-types. Arceus-Dark does not check anymore threats than it did in Gen 6 and is checked by a new, common (is 11.18% common?) threat in Magearna, which can easily take a Judgement to the face:
0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Magearna: 50-59 (13.7 - 16.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever
-even with 252+ SpA: 252+ SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Magearna: 66-78 (18.1 - 21.4%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
steal boosts with Heart Swap, and retaliate back with Fleur Cannon:
0 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 302-356 (68 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The Tapus (excluding Lele), whilst uncommon, also provide issues for Arceus-Dark:
Tapu Koko cannot switch into a +1 Arceus-Dark, but it can retaliate with Nature's Madness and Gigavolt Havoc:
252 SpA Tapu Koko Gigavolt Havoc vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 295-348 (66.4 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Fortunately for Arceus-Dark, Tapu Koko cannot kill a +1 Arceus-Dark, and is 2HKO'd by CM Judgement:
+1 0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Koko: 144-169 (51.2 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Tapu Bulu can also retaliate back - Fini can easily resist CM Judgement, but its lack of recovery lets it down and Misty Terrain acts as a double-edged sword toward status ailments.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Arceus-Dark: 387-456 (87.1 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
for those who wish to be a little more passive with Bulu usage:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Horn Leech vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Arceus-Dark: 241-285 (54.2 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
It also resists Judgement fairly well:
+1 0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Bulu: 118-139 (41.9 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
for those who want a tankier build:
+1 0 SpA Dread Plate Arceus-Dark Judgment vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Bulu: 118-139 (34.3 - 40.4%) -- 48.2% chance to 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
(for these reasons, although not exclusive to Arceus-Dark - supportceus formes are also threatened by Bulu, like Waterceus and Groundceus, as well as neutral, uninvested defensively Arceus' - I request for Tapu Bulu to be ranked - optimistically to C-.)
To summarise: The inclusion of Magearna has left Arceus-Dark a little high and dry - being a true counter to Arceus-Dark. The Tapus - whilst very uncommon (Koko is 1.4%, Bulu and Fini are 0.4%) also check Darkceus.
How can you say it doesn't check anything new when it's arguably one of the most reliable and easy to fit on answers to Lunala in the tier? The increased prevalence of Yveltal only boosts Arceus-Dark's viability alongside this as many players now recognise that Ghost and Dark resists are now mandatory on a team, and Arceus-Dark is one of the sturdiest and most reliable means of providing these key resists. An Arceus that is not as weak to Gengar as many of the other formes are(although it is vulnerable to Focus Blast) also adds to it's niche.
I'm not sure why half of your argument hinges on Tapu Bulu, while I don't really have an opinion on whether it should be ranked or not, why is this relevant to Arceus-Dark's placement within these rankings? At the moment all that can be taken from this argument is that Arceus-Dark gained a new counter in Magearna(not a hard pokemon to take advantage of), is threatened by the Tapus in some scenarios, but this has to be weighed against the fact that providing a Dark and a Ghost resist are more important than ever, and that Arceus-Dark's defensive niche has improved thanks to checking Lunala and Solgaleo(this isn't that important tbf), and that checking Yveltal is a lot more valuable these days. I think it's just fine where it is.
I'm not sure why half of your argument hinges on Tapu Bulu, while I don't really have an opinion on whether it should be ranked or not, why is this relevant to Arceus-Dark's placement within these rankings? At the moment all that can be taken from this argument is that Arceus-Dark gained a new counter in Magearna(not a hard pokemon to take advantage of), is threatened by the Tapus in some scenarios, but this has to be weighed against the fact that providing a Dark and a Ghost resist are more important than ever, and that Arceus-Dark's defensive niche has improved thanks to checking Lunala and Solgaleo(this isn't that important tbf), and that checking Yveltal is a lot more valuable these days. I think it's just fine where it is.
Apologies. I forgot to see the positive side of things.
Lunala is somewhat common as well, so my 'common' reasoning isn't valid at all for checking Darkceus.
Lunala is somewhat common as well, so my 'common' reasoning isn't valid at all for checking Darkceus.
I think this list is pretty accurate in my opinion, and I'm really glad to see Yveltal get a lot higher, because the YGod deserves it. (And yes, I know looks aren't taken into consideration when making these.)
Xurkitree, while I love its special attack stat (who doesn't?), I don't know if it belongs in that same tier with Pokemon like Blissey who can tank, and Dugtrio who can revenge kill. If Xurkitree was either just a bit faster or bulkier, I would say it deserves this spot and maybe then some. I suppose you could give it the Choice Scarf though, but not even that can save it from Pokemon like Landorus and possibly Dugtrio. Keep up the good work, though, it's coming along great!!!
Xurkitree, while I love its special attack stat (who doesn't?), I don't know if it belongs in that same tier with Pokemon like Blissey who can tank, and Dugtrio who can revenge kill. If Xurkitree was either just a bit faster or bulkier, I would say it deserves this spot and maybe then some. I suppose you could give it the Choice Scarf though, but not even that can save it from Pokemon like Landorus and possibly Dugtrio. Keep up the good work, though, it's coming along great!!!
So I've played a lot of this tier in the last couple weeks and I'd like to share my thoughts on the rankings.
Tapu Lele B ---> B+
Psychic Terrain offense is actually incredible right now, shutting down stall with gigantic attacks from +2 Deo-A, and stopping offense with a combination of focus sash + priority immunity. Tapu Lele, in my opinion, is part of the reason that Deo-A is so high in the VR and should therefore be at least at the same point as Deo-S, another significant support mon. In addition, it provides medium-fast taunts and clutch 50% hits on switchin.
Zygarde-C A- ---> B+
Zygarde-C is pretty awesome but getting to the complete forme is pretty difficult, because everything in the tier is running fairy or ice coverage. It just honestly super weak when compared to the other mons in A-. As fireburn said, its subcoil set is pretty unreliable and its other sets are just unremarkable.
Finally, I also think that Kyogre should move from D to C or C+. Its specs set is still really hard to switch in to, its scarf set is pretty ok. If Xurkitree is gonna be C+ then its water type slow but hard hitting counterpart probably deserves a place there, too.
Tapu Lele B ---> B+
Psychic Terrain offense is actually incredible right now, shutting down stall with gigantic attacks from +2 Deo-A, and stopping offense with a combination of focus sash + priority immunity. Tapu Lele, in my opinion, is part of the reason that Deo-A is so high in the VR and should therefore be at least at the same point as Deo-S, another significant support mon. In addition, it provides medium-fast taunts and clutch 50% hits on switchin.
Zygarde-C A- ---> B+
Zygarde-C is pretty awesome but getting to the complete forme is pretty difficult, because everything in the tier is running fairy or ice coverage. It just honestly super weak when compared to the other mons in A-. As fireburn said, its subcoil set is pretty unreliable and its other sets are just unremarkable.
Finally, I also think that Kyogre should move from D to C or C+. Its specs set is still really hard to switch in to, its scarf set is pretty ok. If Xurkitree is gonna be C+ then its water type slow but hard hitting counterpart probably deserves a place there, too.
Xurkitree uses a set with z-hypnosis(Grants +1 speed) Tail glow, Thunderbolt, and Grass knot. It can fail, but when it works, Xurkitree outspeeds Duggy, and Bilssey can't tank hits from Xurkitree.
+3 252+ SpA Xurkitree Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 292-345 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Your reasoning for kyogre rising isn't very valid. Although kyogre and xurkitree both serve as powerfully special wallbreakers, the reason kyogre shouldn't rise is because not only does its choice specs set get cockblocked by the most common Pokémon in the tier, primal groudon, but in addition, there's little to no reason of justifying its usage over its primal forme, which can at least get past primal groudon by switching in after desolate land is up(though it can't directly switch into an attack).Xurkitree can(rarely)get past primal groudon if it manages to land a z-hypnosis and set up a tail glow in the process, but primal groudon has to be weakened. Kyogre is probably going to remain in d rank because it is in Ubers so it must be placed on a ranking but it has no usability in the metagame.
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I disagree with Zygarde-C dropping. It can check many threats in Ubers including Primal Groudon, MegaMence, Extreme Killer, Ho-oh, Yveltal, and almost every single Arceus form, and can deal with them pretty decently, all while not being complete Mega Gengar bait. I myself haven't had too much trouble transforming into the complete forme, although I am relatively low ladder atm.(Besides, Zygarde-50 can still do Zygarde-Cs job) I don't think that Zygarde-C should drop to B+ right now, maybe in the future, but as of right now, I think that Zygarde-C is fine where it is.(Btw, sorry if this is crappy, currently on Mobile)
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Nominating Xerneas S--> A+. I find that Xerneas this gen has AT LEAST 3 new threats to deal with, Magearna, Solgaleo, and Lunala, which make its run for the classic GeoXern to be much less effective. Magearna can steal stat boosts on top of that it has immense bulk, Solgaleo is NEVER ko'd by a +2 Power Herb Xerneas, and Specs Lunala generally just beats Xerneas. If anything, Xerneas is caught between trying to break through too many Pokemon with so many counters this gen to be considered as good as it was last gen.
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Diancie isn't viable in ubers and its mega forme isn't released yet. Solgaleo doesn't provide much additional utility outside of checking fairies, is unable to OHKO Xerneas, and the offensive set doesn't need much prior damage to be KOed by +2 Hidden Power Ground. Lunala is hardly a reliable Xerneas answer, it doesn't always 2HKO Z-Geomancy variants and needs to be at full to check standard GeoXern. If anything the introduction of mons which you might consider answers, such as Toxapex and Celesteela, increase its viability on offense since it can run fewer coverage moves to cover these, whereas in ORAS you had Klefki, a staple on most balances, which could stop a Xerneas sweep cold. Xern basically has so many options it can utilize, and when you consider that you rarely know or can predict its full set until fairly late in the game, it can be extremely effective against any archetype.
e: Magearna, similarly to Solgaleo, has too much of an opportunity cost to be very splashable on teams, as its only method of recovery is Pain Split and it is completely walled by any steel, ground, or fire-type in the tier.
e: Magearna, similarly to Solgaleo, has too much of an opportunity cost to be very splashable on teams, as its only method of recovery is Pain Split and it is completely walled by any steel, ground, or fire-type in the tier.
yeah my b, magearna.
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