Resource SM OU Viability Ranking Thread

[Gary]

RANKING UPDATE

Rises

A ---> A+

Added to A-

B+ ---> A-

B+ ---> A-

B- ---> B

B- ---> B

Unranked ---> C
Drops

S ---> A+

A ---> A-

Most of these changes should be pretty self-explanatory if you've been playing/watching a lot of games post Metagross ban, but first I'll address the elephant in the room:

• Greninja has always been a very solid top tier Pokemon, but it has fluctuated a lot this gen so far between S and A+ rank. With Metagross being banned, Magearna has skyrockted in usage, specifically the AV set, as it is a very solid check to both Lele and Latios, which have both started seeing more usage with Meta being banned for obvious reasons. While that set by no means stops Greninja cold, it keeps Greninja from being able to tear apart bulkier builds as successfully, especially earlier on in the match. Also, because Greninja rarely can afford to run Dark Pulse anymore, Mew is able to handle it pretty well and is also a very solid Defogger that can remove Greninja's Spikes. Of course, Greninja could always start running Dark Pulse again to counter this, but then it's going to struggle to break through other Pokemon commonly found on balance, such as Pex, Zapdos, and Steela depending on what move it gives up. Add this onto Keldeo being one of the most splashable offensive Pokemon atm, which gives any Greninja a hard time if it's not running Sensory. While Greninja is easily still one of the best Pokemon in the tier, we felt like Greninja's impact on the tier atm is more comparable to its counterpart in A+ rank, and Landorus-T is easily the most defining, centralizing, and influential Pokemon in the tier, and it deserves a rank of its own.
• Magearna losing one of its best offensive checks in the tier has definitely helped it out a ton. While the AV set is still used a lot for its ability to keep a lot of special attackers in check, OTR sets are incredibly dangerous late-game sweepers that are able to run a multitude of different Z moves to pick apart its "counters". Because of its combination of offensive and defensive utility, as well as being very splashable, we felt like it would fit better in A+.
• Latios and T-tar have also been benefiting from recent meta trends lately, especially Latios, because now it no longer has to worry about letting one of the best Pokemon in the tier come in for free. While Scarf is still seeing some usage, Specs is a strong hole puncher that is able to spam its STABs much more freely. T-tar is one of the tier's few viable Ghost resists that heavily pressures Specs Gengar and Cofagrigus from being able to blindly spam their Ghost STABs, or else it risks being Pursuit trapped. It also pressures Specs Lele into using Psychic less often, Latios, and checks most Volcarona sets, even the Charti Berry set.
• Mega Heracross is being initially placed into A- for now. So far it has proven itself to be a solid wallbreaker with great defensive utility, but unlike last gen, it can't effectively break stall anymore, and its below average Speed leaves it outsped by a majority of the offensive metagame, which can oftentimes leave you wide open vs some of the tier's most dangerous offensive breakers (Pinsir, Lele, Medicham, etc).
• Mantine is a decently solid Defogger for bulkier builds that can effectively check Protean Gren as well as Keldeo and Volcarona. We felt B- was too low for it. Reuniclus is a dangerous late-game win con while also being one of the best switch-ins to Mega Medicham in the tier.

Have a good day.

 

[Reviloja753]

RANKING UPDATE

Rises

A ---> A+

Added to A-

B+ ---> A-

B+ ---> A-

B- ---> B

B- ---> B

Unranked ---> C
Drops

S ---> A+

A ---> A-

Most of these changes should be pretty self-explanatory if you've been playing/watching a lot of games post Metagross ban, but first I'll address the elephant in the room:

• Greninja has always been a very solid top tier Pokemon, but it has fluctuated a lot this gen so far between S and A+ rank. With Metagross being banned, Magearna has skyrockted in usage, specifically the AV set, as it is a very solid check to both Lele and Latios, which have both started seeing more usage with Meta being banned for obvious reasons. While that set by no means stops Greninja cold, it keeps Greninja from being able to tear apart bulkier builds as successfully, especially earlier on in the match. Also, because Greninja rarely can afford to run Dark Pulse anymore, Mew is able to handle it pretty well and is also a very solid Defogger that can remove Greninja's Spikes. Of course, Greninja could always start running Dark Pulse again to counter this, but then it's going to struggle to break through other Pokemon commonly found on balance, such as Pex, Zapdos, and Steela depending on what move it gives up. Add this onto Keldeo being one of the most splashable offensive Pokemon atm, which gives any Greninja a hard time if it's not running Sensory. While Greninja is easily still one of the best Pokemon in the tier, we felt like Greninja's impact on the tier atm is more comparable to its counterpart in A+ rank, and Landorus-T is easily the most defining, centralizing, and influential Pokemon in the tier, and it deserves a rank of its own.
• Magearna losing one of its best offensive checks in the tier has definitely helped it out a ton. While the AV set is still used a lot for its ability to keep a lot of special attackers in check, OTR sets are incredibly dangerous late-game sweepers that are able to run a multitude of different Z moves to pick apart its "counters". Because of its combination of offensive and defensive utility, as well as being very splashable, we felt like it would fit better in A+.
• Latios and T-tar have also been benefiting from recent meta trends lately, especially Latios, because now it no longer has to worry about letting one of the best Pokemon in the tier come in for free. While Scarf is still seeing some usage, Specs is a strong hole puncher that is able to spam its STABs much more freely. T-tar is one of the tier's few viable Ghost resists that heavily pressures Specs Gengar and Cofagrigus from being able to blindly spam their Ghost STABs, or else it risks being Pursuit trapped. It also pressures Specs Lele into using Psychic less often, Latios, and checks most Volcarona sets, even the Carti Berry set.
• Mega Heracross is being initially placed into A- for now. So far it has proven itself to be a solid wallbreaker with great defensive utility, but unlike last gen, it can't effectively break stall anymore, and its below average Speed leaves it outsped by a majority of the offensive metagame, which can oftentimes leave you wide open vs some of the tier's most dangerous offensive breakers (Pinsir, Lele, Medicham, etc).
• Mantine is a decently solid Defogger for bulkier builds that can effectively check Protean Gren as well as Keldeo and Volcarona. We felt B- was too low for it. Reuniclus is a dangerous late-game win con while also being one of the best switch-ins to Mega Medicham in the tier.

Have a good day.

May I ask why Zygarde did not rise to S-tier? There was a lot of support for it, and I do not see the reason behind it staying in A+.

 

[6ft Torbjorn]

May I ask why Zygarde did not rise to S-tier? There was a lot of support for it, and I do not see the reason behind it staying in A+.

Because I think S tier is better justified when Gren goes. Given some evidence I found and the fact that Gren just dropped, I don't think now is quite the time (as much as I can see it in S tier, and my hatred for bulky DD abusers).

 

[Gary]

Baton Pass has nothing to do with Zygarde not rising to S rank and Greninja dropping, so I'm not sure how that has any relevance to what was asked.

Subject 18 will be making a more detailed post as to why Zygarde didn't move up. Keep in mind though, we are keeping an eye on it, and we have definitely be considering it rising.

 

[Subject 18]

May I ask why Zygarde did not rise to S-tier? There was a lot of support for it, and I do not see the reason behind it staying in A+.

I'll shed some clarity on this, because bludz and I originally pushed for Zygarde to be moved up to S-rank a while ago. Recently speaking I've been a little more convinced that it isn't S-Rank material at the current time. Outside of not having the fully support from most of the team, when we talked about moving it up internally, the argument that Zygarde lacks immediate power that would make it as big of a threat as people would expect from an S-rank Pokemon. The lack of immediate power for an S-rank offensive Pokemon feels out of place considering the history that we've had in S: Landorus-T, Greninja, Genesect, Metagross, etc.

While saying "it lacks up front power" isn't the best argument, it was also noted how it's easy to play around and deal with Zygarde than it is with some other S-Rank Pokemon, namely Landorus-T. Tangrowth, Landorus-T, Zapdos and others are all common mons that prevent Zygarde from being extremely dominant. Landorus-T and Tangrowth both easily switch into to with relative safety and threaten it out with HP Ice. Fast Zapdos out paces it and 2HKOs with HP Ice before Zygarde 2HKOs, obviously Zapdos shouldn't directly come on it, but it's another obstacle for Zygarde.

Lastly the argument of it's versatility. Yes, Zygarde can run multiple sets but those aren't nearly as consistent as Choice Band. SubToxic lost a lot of effectiveness early-mid SPL when the tier adapted to it. Dragon Dance with Z-Outrage is a cool set and has good merit, but it's pretty obvious it's coming when Zygarde starts setting up when you have a Tangrowth or Landorus-T in the back, allowing you so bait and scout the Devastating Drake with a Steel/Fairy type. Double Dance (DD + Coil) is another set people often run, but how often are you able to get multiple boosts and stay healthy enough to sweep? It's usually not very often this happens, though I've seen it happened a few times, but it generally stems from misplays from the opposition. This really leaves one set that is consistent is Banded.

This isn't to say that Zygarde will never go to S-rank, it's just that the moment there are a number of factors keeping it from moving up like I mentioned. We are keeping and eye on it and monitoring how it will fare in the current meta post Metagross and with Mega Heracross introduced and in the coming WCOP. Hope this helps and answers where we stand on this. I think going forward, we'll try to interact more with the thread posting our own thoughts and to keep people updated on what we're thinking about, discussing or want to see more discussion on. Keep in mind, you can always approach us on discord or PS so answer questions and clarify stuff.

 

[Toshiro46]

Baton Pass has nothing to do with Zygarde not rising to S rank and Greninja dropping, so I'm not sure how that has any relevance to what was asked.

Subject 18 will be making a more detailed post as to why Zygarde didn't move up. Keep in mind though, we are keeping an eye on it, and we have definitely be considering it rising.

Speaking of mons that didn't rise or drop, would you consider giving the council's thoughts as to why some of their noms didn't go through? I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd be interested in seeing the reasoning for the stagnancy of mons like Gengar, Pinsir, Scolipede, and Amoonguss.

Trying a nom for Suicune to B+. Suicune is one of the most slept on mons right now, where its so hard to muscle past it without having some kind of direct check or counter to it. As a late game wincon its hard to break through after a cm boost and all have to deal with mutliple sets of sub, rest talk, or sometimes roarcune to avoid it being potential set up bait. All potential breakers are afraid of scald and some sets run ice beams so it can be easy switch ins to zygarde/lando. It can switch into so many mons like nonband ttar, sciz, tang, some gren variants, and zygarde and prepare to sweep. It still has issues of not being able to run all the moves it wants and is reliant on certain scald burns but its ability to knock completely unprepared teams who can't break it should merit it B+

Imo these traits - hard to muscle past, hard-to-break late game wincon, multiple sets - don't really justify a rise since they've always been true. And saying that it's just one of the most slept on mons isn't an argument, either. I could say that for any mon, but that doesn't make it true. Physical breakers have always been afraid of scald - fire types notwithstanding - and Suicune has always had ice beam to deal with the 4x weaknesses to it. I just don't really see in this post what's changed for it to move from B to B+.

 

[Yoshi]

For those wondering about the rise of Ditto, here's Gary's thoughts on it:

 

[Ropalme1914]

I also would appreciate the reason for Gengar not rising. Sure, I can see why he stayed and A is not bad for him, but even if it's support was not as great as Zygarde for S (yeah, I know that he did not rise too, but you guys will give the reason), I think it was decent enough for some text explaining that (sorry if that sounds rude, english is not my main language).

 

[Vert]

gengar is very good but it's capabilities are often exaggerated since it needs a) a free switch & b) has to have the right matchup since a lot of offensive teams have mons that can tank a hit and ko back / outpace gengar in general. life orb sets get worn down very quickly and are forced to come and take damage, desperately fishing for damage itself (at least in my experience). tyranitar is rising in usage, which discourages a choiced gengar from spamming shadow ball. yes, focus blast kills. i am not a dumbass.

especially when you are comparing gengar to other balance breakers in a+ such as volcarona and greninja, gengar is of those mons that is very solid like heatran, but the lack of consistency due to exaggerated capabilities in practice is what holds it back from being a+.

 

[njnp]

gengar is very good but it's capabilities are often exaggerated since it needs a) a free switch & b) has to have the right matchup since a lot of offensive teams have mons that can tank a hit and ko back / outpace gengar in general. life orb sets get worn down very quickly and are forced to come and take damage, desperately fishing for damage itself (at least in my experience). tyranitar is rising in usage, which discourages a choiced gengar from spamming shadow ball. yes, focus blast kills. i am not a dumbass.

especially when you are comparing gengar to other balance breakers in a+ such as volcarona and greninja, gengar is of those mons that is very solid like heatran, but the lack of consistency due to exaggerated capabilities in practice is what holds it back from being a+.

To add to vertex post, Gengar imo has always been a poor mon. I've always felt it was underwhelming and underperforming. It still is a threat you have to consider, so the current ranking for it is fair. There have been more megas added such as mawile and heracross that also cause in the lowering of usage in gengar because they beat it before gengar can beat them. This is along with the fact ho usage is increasing an gengar has always been pressured by this immensely. I have even seen a peak in chansey offense usage and gengar certainly does not enjoy that. Gengar was considered pretty good when medicham first came out cause everyone was spamming medi and gengar was a nice check but now that people have realized medicham is overrated its usage has dropped along with a mon for gengar to cover. So, Gengars current rank is fine. Hope this helps.

 

[Mame YO]

I definitely feel like gengar suffers from competition for its role, too. Especially specs: ash-greninja is more versatile and is downright scary once transformed, tapu lele provides additional utility in psychic terrain while hitting with unresisted hits like a truck, etc.

The loss of levitate hurts gengar tremendously imo; it just can't get as many free switch opportunities as you'd hope, and it badly needs those chances to get in without getting demolished by every tom dick and harry that can hit harder than a wet paper bag.

To me, gengar should probably drop a tier, to me. But ya'll don't really listen to me much.

 

[Reviloja753]

I definitely feel like gengar suffers from competition for its role, too. Especially specs: ash-greninja is more versatile and is downright scary once transformed, tapu lele provides additional utility in psychic terrain while hitting with unresisted hits like a truck, etc.

The loss of levitate hurts gengar tremendously imo; it just can't get as many free switch opportunities as you'd hope l, and it badly needs those chances to get in without getting demolished by every tom dick and harry that can hit harder than a wet paper bag.

To me, gengar should probably drop a tier, to me. But ya'll don't really listen to me much.

We don't listen to you cause you derail suspects

Anyways, yeah. I for only just this once agree with you in that it losing levitate was the thing that hurt the most. With Lando-T and Zygarde being as prominent as they are (granted, the latter would use 1KArrows anyways), Gengar has a hard time finding a place to switch in, aside from after something dies. It is also extremely frail and dies to even most neutral hits. Ash-Greninja is really the better choice if you want OU Specs. It's much faster, has marginally better bulk, and has a lot easier of a time coming in. Gengar went down to UU for a reason folks.

 

[Gary]

To be fair, Gengar losing Levitate has honestly had little impact on its viability in the tier, and I don't like how it's constantly brought up as a reason to drop it. While not being able to soft check Landorus-T is annoying, being able to absorb T-Spikes in a meta where T-Spikes are very common because of Pex, is very useful. On top of that, Cursed Body is far from a useless ability, and it can be extremely clutch in situations vs Choiced mons that can allow you to essentially bring something in for free. Beneffiting from the terrains is also a plus, seeing how Psychic Terrain can give it an immunity to Sucker, Misty can give it an immunity to a stray T-wave, etc. Gengar may not be A+ material, but don't think that means it's automatically eligible for dropping a rank. It's still a stupid Pokemon to deal with defensively outside of Chansey and any team lacking T-tar or Chansey is usually sacking a mon vs it every time it gets a chance to come in for free.

And also, Gengar dropping to UU was earlier on in the year when it wasn't used much, but since then it's gone up dramatically in usage, enough to where both it and Keldeo will most definitely OU by the end of this month. If you look at April's usage stats, Gengar is solidly OU. So yeah, don't use that as an argument considering it's not even relevant anymore.

 

[UltraBallz]

We don't listen to you cause you derail suspects

Anyways, yeah. I for only just this once agree with you in that it losing levitate was the thing that hurt the most. With Lando-T and Zygarde being as prominent as they are (granted, the latter would use 1KArrows anyways), Gengar has a hard time finding a place to switch in, aside from after something dies. It is also extremely frail and dies to even most neutral hits. Ash-Greninja is really the better choice if you want OU Specs. It's much faster, has marginally better bulk, and has a lot easier of a time coming in. Gengar went down to UU for a reason folks.

Losing levitate really hasn't done much to gar tbh. As Gary mentioned absorbing tspikes is amazing for bulky offense/offense that lacks hazard control. It is actually a lot better then it was last gen in fact mostly do to the lack of sturdy ghost resists in the tier. This is indicated by the rankings too (I think gar was like B+ last gen or something like that). Specs gar 2HKO's practically the whole tier and even things like Chansey have to be wary of trick.

That being said I think Gengar is fine in A; it doesn't have quite the versatility/splashability as the current A+ mons. But also to say if you want to use a specs mons just use Ash Gren isn't necessarily acurrate as Gar can beat a lot of the mons that Ash-Gren cannot like Tangrowth/Ferrothorn/Tapu Fini/Tapu Bulu etc. It comes down to what your team needs

 

[Punchshroom]

C+ to C- / Unranked

Ngl, I can't really see much reason to ever use Buzzwole in the current meta. The newcomer Mega Heracross has access to Swords Dance and much better STABs, greatly lessening the need for coverage and pretty much blowing Buzzwole out of the water offensively. This means that Buzzwole has to rely on its defensive niche and access to Roost in order to stand out. Unfortunately, while Buzzwole is a bulky Thousand Arrows resist with reliable recovery, Tapu Bulu is also present in the meta, and its recovery consists of Grassy Terrain which provides additional support in weakening Earthquake for its teammates, as well as boosted Horn Leech as a sufficient form of offensive recovery. Meanwhile, Tapu Bulu:
1) offers many of the other useful resistances Buzzwole has while also having important resistances/immunities to Water, Electric, & Dragon attacks (instead of getting dropped by them like Buzzwole usually does)
2) doesn't have poor Special Defense (meaning Buzzwole doesn't even take Ice Beams and Sludge Waves/Bombs much better in return, in case u thought Buzzwole having fewer weaknesses than Bulu would be a notable advantage)
3) isn't easy prey for the Psychic- and Fairy-types that have risen since the departure of Mega Metagross
4) like Mega Heracross, has the raw power that lessens the need for coverage.

Buzzwole is just outperformed on both fronts; this is definitely not the kind of Pokemon that'd be worth building a team around, and it barely patches any holes that other alternatives cannot during later stages of teambuilding.

 

[Night Train Lane]

Yeah I honestly don't see a reason to ever dedicate a slot to Buzzwole. Its main niche as a bulky ground resist isnt valued because the things that it's supposed to beat: Landorus, Zygarde, etc it loses to due to their various sets, or are done better by other Pokemon like Clefable, Tapu Bulu, or Heracross. You're also crushed by both Celes sets, both Greninjas, Lele, Magearna, Gengar, etc etc. All the best pokemon in the tier.

mHoundoom should be ranked imo but I want to give replays and type out a good enough argument.

EDIT: Not relevant, but I remember talking to BlazeLatias, when SM first came out, about how this pokemon is gonna be S rank when "the meta settles down" .. holE.. good times

 

[Selihido]

I'd like to voice my support for buzzwole coming out of the rankings. With megacross released there is essentially no reason to ever use it. I mean you might find some tiny little niche with the "doesn't take up a mega slot argument but pretty much every mon has that size of niche.

 

[ochoagenalyn]

I feel sad for Buzzwole because iirc he started in A+, and now he's about to be kicked. I think Buzzwole is still relevant and merits C+ rank as a bulky attacker that can check both Zygarde and Lando-T(without Z+Fly) because it can carry Ice Punch. This is something Mega Heracross can't do. Zygarde's other checks, Tangrowth and Clefable, don't boast as much offensive presnce as Buzzwole. I mean, yeah, it's very much outclassed by Mega Heracross in all aspects, but two ranks away from Mega Heracross seems fair.

 

[BlisseyandChansey123]

I support Buzzwole going unranked or C-. Look at the top pokemon in the viability thread. Landorus-T, Greninja/Ash Greninja, Tapu Lele, etc. They all do significant damage to buzzwole. The rise of fairy types after M-Metagross ban doesn't help either, 1 Moonblast from Choice Scarf lele or Calm-Mind Clefable 1 hit Ko.

252 SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 52 HP / 152 SpD Buzzwole: 408-482 (110.8 - 130.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 52 HP / 152 SpD Buzzwole: 258-306 (70.1 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
That is without any SPA IVS!

Almost all tapus can 1 hit KO buzzwole with a stab fairy-type move(except bulu), which are very prominent in the current meta.
0 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 52 HP / 152 SpD Buzzwole: 258-306 (70.1 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery(without Calm Mind and SPA attack investment)
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 52 HP / 152 SpD Buzzwole: 414-488 (112.5 - 132.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Buzzwole's horrible speed tier is one of it's major drawbacks. If you remember before the phero ban, Pheromosa was criticized because of its horrible defenses, but its backed up with insane speed and high SA/A, eventually leading to its ban. Physically defensive buzzwole doensn't have much a niche because most of the strongest wall breakers in the tier are SA. HP Fire is also used very often, and this KOS Buzzwole before doing anything. Yes, it has Ice Punch unlike M-Metagross, but because of its horrible speed, it gets forced out or killed so easily that it doesn't have much of a niche anymore. Most of us agree that it is the worst ultra beast, and the bans of Phero, M-Metagross, makes it almost useless. If Buzzwole actually had a better speed tier, he and Phero might be banned by now(Buzzwole has better coverage moves than Phero in general)

All in all, Buzzwole should move to C- or unranked.

I hope my arguments make sense
I shall here out anyone who has something to say to this.

 

[giovanidude]

The only thing Buzzwole has is Z-Moves, Recovery, and sub punch (because of leftovers). The thing is buzzwole isn't terrible, it's just not good. Playing against it isn't as hard now, only because you should be prepd for M-Heracross, but it's still a threat. Having recovery from lefties or roost is actually really big. Buzzwole is much harder to wear down so for slower teams that rely on hazards/helmet damage to wear it down into range of their faster mons, it can prove to be more difficult to wear down. (Also having ice punch is huge since it allows it to immediately threaten the 3 best ground types in the tier for an ohko)

I honestly can't see Buzzwole being unraked. It's not a garbage mon that is completely outclassed. It has enough going for it to differentiate itself with recovery and potential Z-Moves.
And to be fair, look at the mons we have in C/C-. You can't say that buzzwole is worse than Torkaol, Diggersby, Magneton, and Ninetails. I don't think we should jump on this unrank Buzzwole train.

 

[Srn]

The only thing Buzzwole has is Z-Moves, Recovery, and sub punch (because of leftovers). The thing is buzzwole isn't terrible, it's just not good. Playing against it isn't as hard now, only because you should be prepd for M-Heracross, but it's still a threat. Having recovery from lefties or roost is actually really big. Buzzwole is much harder to wear down so for slower teams that rely on hazards/helmet damage to wear it down into range of their faster mons, it can prove to be more difficult to wear down. (Also having ice punch is huge since it allows it to immediately threaten the 3 best ground types in the tier for an ohko)

I honestly can't see Buzzwole being unraked. It's not a garbage mon that is completely outclassed. It has enough going for it to differentiate itself with recovery and potential Z-Moves.
And to be fair, look at the mons we have in C/C-. You can't say that buzzwole is worse than Torkaol, Diggersby, Magneton, and Ninetails. I don't think we should jump on this unrank Buzzwole train.

I think the argument here isn't that its necessarily worse than torkoal/diggersby/magneton/ninetails but rather that it has simply lost its niche. Yeah, I think its still decent, but there are pokemon that perform almost the same role, but much better. A bulky bug/fighting with recovery is simply not big enough of a niche to ever dedicate a teamslot to over tapu bulu or mega heracross, whereas torkoal can set sun+spin+ask tdk for anything else, diggersby is a powerhouse wallbreaker saddled with low speed/bulk but still quite unrivaled, magneton can trap but also outpace crucial pokemon like greninja when scarfed, and ninetails can set aurora veil, all of which are viable niches that aren't overshadowed completely by any other mon(s).

 

[BlisseyandChansey123]

The main niche that torkoal and Ninetails have is in Sun Teams, which is definitely good enough niche to be ranked. Magneton ability to trap pokemon with magnet pull, checking Celesteela, is a huge niche for Magneton, so it deserves its spot. Diggersby, I have no idea but my point is, Buzzwole doesn't have much of a niche compared to all other ranked pokemon. It is easy prey for SPA attackers and gets 1 hit KOED with SD invesment, which lessens its damage potential. It should drop to their spot or unranked. Buzzwole doesn't do well and general. I already presented reasons in my last post and the lele hype is becoming even more prominent despite people saying not to be so hyped about it. Its increase in usage is buzzwoles nightmare. I'll stop arguing here.

 

[Hookah Doncic]

The main niche that torkoal and Ninetails have is in Sun Teams, which is definitely good enough niche to be ranked. Magneton ability to trap pokemon with magnet pull, checking Celesteela, is a huge niche for Magneton, so it deserves its spot. Diggersby, I have no idea but my point is, Buzzwole doesn't have much of a niche compared to all other ranked pokemon. It is easy prey for SPA attackers and gets 1 hit KOED with SD invesment, which lessens its damage potential. It should drop to their spot or unranked. Buzzwole doesn't do well and general. I already presented reasons in my last post and the lele hype is becoming even more prominent despite people saying not to be so hyped about it. Its increase in usage is buzzwoles nightmare. I'll stop arguing here.

Unfort sun isn't great in sm imo with things like chomp,peilpper,and the t-tar usage going up. torkoal does almost nothing in games. ninetails is the same yea nice speed tier but no power+Stealth rock weaknesses added to team best to stay with char y if you want sun. So I think it's best to stay unrank

 

[NewfieDude]

Question, is the reason why gengar's viability didn't change that much even after losing Levitate was because that most earthquake users in the tier had other ways of killing gengar, i.e Garchomp could just Dragon Claw, Drill had Moldbreaker etc?

 

[UltraBallz]

Question, is the reason why gengar's viability didn't change that much even after losing Levitate was because that most earthquake users in the tier had other ways of killing gengar, i.e Garchomp could just Dragon Claw, Drill had Moldbreaker etc?

Yeah I mean Gengar wouldn't really want to switch in to any ground type currently popular in OU even if it had levitate as they all can destroy it with coverage moves/secondary stab/thousand arrows anyways. The one benefit would be switching into defensive lando but even then gengar has to be wary of switching into offensive variants. Even if Gar had levitate it still would really only find opportunities to come in after sacks, slow u turns, or aggresive doubles anyways.