Skarmory [4N] - Specially Defensive*

[Erodent]

Status: Complete?

In light of the extremely productive Skarmory set that was popularized in recent Suspect play (I assume?), I wrote this set up as I believe it should have a place in the analysis. Feel free to argue if you think it's unnecessary; changes and criticism are always welcome.
Team Options is in brown.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/skarmory

------------------------------------------------------

[SET]
name: Specially Defensive
move 1: Brave Bird
move 2: Roost
move 3: Spikes
move 4: Whirlwind
item: Leftovers / Shed Shell
ability: Keen Eye
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>From days that date back to early GS, Skarmory has regularly been used as a physical wall. DPP's physical-special split, however, changed certain circumstances. Turning Skarmory into a part-physical, part-special wall is greatly beneficial for balanced or stall-based teams; Specially Defensive Skarmory is sturdy at the job of setting up Spikes and breaks the traditional "Skarmory will always lose to unresisted special attacks" rule. At first glance, it may seem that 334 HP and 239 SpD are rather low stats for walling, but Skarmory's nine resistances and two immunities compensate for this. Skarmory also has 348 Defense with an Impish nature with which to take little damage from common physical attacks like Scizor's Bullet Punch and Weavile's Ice Punch.</p>

<p>The fundamental idea that this set revolves around is simple: come in on neutral or ineffective special attacks from weaker special attackers, and set up Spikes while shrugging off physical attacks that Skarmory can handle. Skarmory's specially defensive capabilities can clearly be seen in the following examples: Bold 0 SpA Vaporeon only does around 35% with Surf; Modest 252 SpA Togekiss only does around 32% with Aura Sphere; Bold 0 SpA Suicune only does around 30% with Surf. Furthermore, Specially Defensive Skarmory is especially adept at taking hits from both physical and special Dragon-type moves. This Skarmory also makes a reliable check to Calm Mind/Surf Latias, able to phaze it with Whirlwind while taking around 43% from a +1 Surf. Next, 252 SpA Life Orb Salamence will do around 42% with its Draco Meteor, and a Fire Blast coming from its -2 SpA stat is unable to OHKO Skarmory. Draco Meteors coming from Dragonite and Kingdra will do even less. Skarmory is also able to wall Outrages and Dragon Claws with ease, taking around 32% from non-boosted Life Orb Salamence's Outrage, one of OU's strongest Outrages. Skarmory can also combat 80 SpA Flygon, but Fire Blast will unfortunately 2HKO it. Choice Scarf Flygon's standard U-turn, Fire Punch, and Outrage will do very little to it, though, and Skarmory's immunity to Ground-type moves helps.</p>

<p>Generally, Specially Defensive Skarmory will also have an easy time with Grass-types whose main forms of offense lie in Grass Knot and Leaf Storm, Choiced Psychic-types locked onto the wrong moves, and even EdgeQuake abusers. Moreover, 80 SpA Blissey will do only around 35% with Flamethrower, allowing Skarmory to set up on it while Roosting.</p>

<p>Brave Bird is Skarmory's strongest means of offense, threatening Infernape, Breloom, and Heracross, while also striking Gyarados. Gyarados only has a 32% chance of 2HKOing you with +1 Attack and Stealth Rock in play. Next, Roost cannot be neglected on any of Skarmory's sets. With Spikes, Skarmory turns into a highly supportive team player. Finally, Whirlwind offers Skarmory the phazing technique, which is useful against Pokemon that commonly set-up, or against an incoming switch-in to inflict further residual damage.</p>

<p>Though Specially Defensive Skarmory is not immediately threatened by the likes of Tentacruel and Vaporeon, it does have a number of enemies that it hates. Heatran and Rotom-A can switch right into Skarmory, resisting Brave Bird OHKOing it with their STAB moves. If Infernape comes in on Roost or Spikes, Fire Blast is sure to OHKO Skarmory. Another way to shut the metal bird down is through the use of Taunt, which disables three of Skarmory's moves. Bulky Taunt Gyarados will cause myriad problems if Skarmory is unable to Whirlwind it out of play. Also, Pokemon like Trick Jirachi and Spore Breloom can take advantage of its low Speed. Some Rapid Spinners, like Forretress, don't take much damage from Brave Bird and can Spin away Skarmory's Spikes. Finally, Magnezone, Skarmory's greatest archenemy, can cause problems if it switches in on anything except Whirlwind. For this reason, Shed Shell is an acceptable choice of item to equip on Skarmory.</p>

<p>A number of partners can work alongside Skarmory to create remarkable walling combinations. Latias is a great partner as it resists Electric- and Fire-type moves, which are always threatening Skarmory. In return, Skarmory helps Latias resist Bug-, Dark-, Dragon-, and Ghost-type moves. Because Skarmory and Latias are both independent in being able to heal themselves, they are commonly found on stall teams. Next, Spin Blockers help prevent Rapid Spinners like Starmie from removing entry hazards from the battlefield; if they succeed, then Skarmory's hard work in setting up Spikes will have been for naught. Rotom-A's common presence in stall teams make them great partners to Skarmory. Heatran is also a fantastic Skarmory partner - Fire-type moves that Skarmory attracts can be redirected to Heatran to gain a Flash Fire boost. At the same time, Skarmory is immune to Earthquake and can shrug off Surfs coming from bulky Water-types. A bulky Ground-type is also good at working with Skarmory. Swampert is a fine partner and tank - its 4x Grass-type weakness is nullified by Skarmory's 4x Grass-type resistance. Because Skarmory is unaffected by sandstorm damage, Hippowdon makes a solid partner. Lastly, don't forget the infamous Skarmory, Cresselia, and Blissey combo meant to function as an unbelievably stable defensive core.</p>

 

[BRShooter]

Actually, 4 Def Skarmory gets a defense stat of 317.

 

[Erodent]

Noted, thanks.

 

[dr00]

edits and notes in bold :)

Status: Need Proofreading?

In light of the extremely productive Skarmory set that was popularized in recent Suspect play (I assume?), I wrote this set up as I believe it should have a place in the analysis. Feel free to argue if you think it's unnecessary; changes and criticism are always welcome.
Team Options is in brown.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/skarmory

------------------------------------------------------

[SET]
name: Specially Defensive
move 1: Brave Bird
move 2: Roost
move 3: Spikes
move 4: Whirlwind
item: Leftovers / Shed Shell
ability: Keen Eye
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

<p>From days that date back to as early as GS, Skarmory has regularly been used as a physical wall, switching out from most special attacks directed at it. Because of DPP's physical-special split (removed comma) however, circumstances have changed. Skarmory's ability to check a large number of threats by turning into a part-physical, part-special wall is greatly beneficial to many stall-based or balanced teams. At first glance, it may seem that 334 HP and 262 SpD are rather low stats for the purposes of walling, but Skarmory's nine handy resistances and two immunities help compensate for this. In addition, with only 4 Defense EVs, Skarmory still hits a Defense stat of 315, which is more than enough to allow it to take little damage from strong physical attacks like Scizor's Bullet Punch, Weavile's Ice Punch, and Mamoswine's Stone Edge.</p>

<p>The fundamental idea that this set revolves around is simple: come in on neutral or ineffective special attacks that are only relatively well-powered, and begin doing what Skarmory was designed to do - set up Spikes (removed comma) while also shrugging off physical attacks that it can handle. Skarmory's specially defensive capabilities can (removed 'greatly' - awkward wording) be seen more easily in the following examples: Bold 0 SpA Vaporeon only does 33% on average Surf; Timid 252 SpA Choice Specs Latias only does 40% on average with Surf; Modest 252 SpA Togekiss only does 30% on average with Aura Sphere; Bold 0 SpA Suicune only does 27% with Surf; Timid 252 SpA Cresselia only does 32% on average with Ice Beam after a Calm Mind. Needless to say, most special attacks that are not very effective against Skarmory will do less damage than what has been mentioned in the previous five examples most of the time. When you have found something with attacks that are unable to gravely injure Skarmory, send the metal bird in and begin setting up layers of Spikes. However, don't get too cocky when letting Skarmory take special hits; moves like Thunderbolt and Flamethrower will fell it in no time at all. As such, sending this particular Skarmory in on threats like Latias (without Thunderbolt) and Swampert is a good move, but sending it in on threats like Heatran and Rotom Appliances is entirely unreasonable.</p>

<p>This Skarmory's moveset is simple and requires no complicated elaboration - Brave Bird is its strongest means of offense. While weak, it can certainly threaten frail Pokemon like Alakazam and Smeargle, while doing 4x damage to Breloom and Heracross in OU. Roost cannot be neglected on any of Skarmory's sets, since this godsend of a move is what tends to make it one of today's best walls. With Spikes, Skarmory turns into a highly supportive team player, setting up the entry hazards that can chip off 25% of opponent's health right off the bat if they are not Flying-types or have the Levitate ability. Stealth Rock can be used in the place of Spikes, but this is not recommended, as few Pokemon are so good at setting up Spikes as Skarmory is (is Skarmory a bad Stealth Rock user? perhaps make a note that other pokemon can set this up instead of skarm). Finally, Whirlwind offers Skarmory the pHazing technique, which is useful against Pokemon like Dragon Dance Tyranitar or Dragon Dance Gyarados.</p>

<p>Specially Defensive Skarmory is especially adept at taking hits from Dragon-type moves from both sides of the spectrum. Most OU Dragon-type Pokemon hate this Skarmory with a burning passion because it is able to fare so well against them. Choice Specs Latias does an average of 45% with Draco Meteor, while the -2 Special Attack drop it receives will force it to switch out. Similarly, 252 SpA Life Orb Salamence will do around 38% with its Draco Meteor, and a subsequent Fire Blast coming from its -2 SpA stat will be unable to OHKO Skarmory, doing around 44%. Draco Meteors coming from the likes of Dragonite and Kingdra will do even less damage. Skarmory is also able to wall Outrages and Dragon Claws with ease, taking around 44% from non-boosted Life Orb Salamence's Outrage, one of OU's most powerful Outrages. The ability to survive a Fire Blast and Outrage from Mixed Dancer Salamence allows Skarmory to pHaze it if it has set up too much. With Whirlwind and Roost, this Skarmory also makes a reliable check to Calm Mind/Dragon Pulse/Surf Latias, able to pHaze it with Whirlwind while taking a mere average of 40% from a +1 Surf. Skarmory can also combat 80 SpA Flygon without worry, as Fire Blast only has a 43% chance of 2HKOing it if Skarmory has taken damage from Stealth Rock. Choice Scarf Flygon's standard U-turn, Fire Punch, and Outrage will do even less damage to it, and Skarmory has the added bonus of being immune to Earthquakes that tend to come from hard hitters like Rhyperior and Hippowdon. This Skarmory is also tailored to take moves like Ice Beam, Psychic, and Hidden Power Fighting well enough. This set also sports a large element of surprise - a combination of Modest Life Orb Gengar's Thunderbolt and Stealth Rock damage is unable to OHKO it, and the same goes for a combination of Timid Life Orb Starmie's Hydro Pump or Thunderbolt and Stealth Rock damage. In return, Skarmory's Brave Bird does around 68% and 52% respectively to offensive versions of the previously mentioned Gengar and Starmie. It goes without saying that Specially Defensive Skarmory will have an easy time with Pokemon such as Grass-types whose main forms of offense lie in Grass Knot and Leaf Storm, like Roserade and Celebi (beware of Hidden Power Fire), Choiced Psychic-types that have locked into the wrong moves, like Alakazam locked into Signal Beam and Jirachi locked into Body Slam, and Steel-types that believe Steel/Ground moves provide good enough coverage, like Metagross and Steelix. (consider making multiple sentences or cutting information. it is very long and struggles to be concise) It should also be noted that 80 SpA Blissey will do only around 35% with Flamethrower, which makes Skarmory able to laugh at it so long as Skarmory continuously uses Roost to regain its health and use Spikes at the right times.</p>

<p>Though Specially Defensive Skarmory is not immediately threatened by the likes of Tentacruel and Vaporeon (removed comma) who can usually scare off physically defensive variants of Skarmory, it does have a number of enemies that it would greatly long (removed 'for') to have removed from a match. Heatran and Rotom Appliances can effortlessly switch right into Skarmory, resisting Brave Bird and threatening it with special moves that are too powerful for it to handle. If Infernape comes in on anything except Whirlwind or Brave Bird, then a Life Orb boosted Flamethrower or Fire Blast is sure to OHKO Skarmory. Blaziken and Machamp work very similarly, as Skarmory will not enjoy taking damage from Fire Blasts or DynamicPunches from the respective foes. Another way to shut the metal bird down is to have a bulky Pokemon use Taunt. Taunt disables the use of three of Skarmory's moves, and if Brave Bird is unable to do much damage to a Taunt user, then Skarmory will be forced to switch out. An interesting yet effective Taunt user is Stallbreaker Gliscor. It can use Taunt to seriously limit Skarmory's capabilities and use U-turn on the switch. Bulky Taunt Gyarados will also cause problems if Skarmory is unable to Whirlwind it out of play immediately. Other Pokemon that annoy Skarmory include those that can take advantage of its low Speed stat and begin using all sorts of nasty things, ranging from Spore coming from Smeargle or Trick coming from Jirachi. Rapid Spinners like Claydol or Forretress don't take (removed 'not too') much damage from Brave Bird and can spin away Skarmory's Spikes if there are already some in play. Finally, Magnezone and Probopass, Skarmory's greatest archenemies, can cause problems if they switch in on anything except Whirlwind. However, Timid Choice Scarf Magnezone should always take great caution in trying to take down this set, as Thunderbolt is never able to OHKO this Skarmory without any Stealth Rock damage. For this reason, Shed Shell is an acceptable choice of item to equip on Skarmory, as it will allow it to switch out of Magnet Pull.</p>

<p>To solve these problems, Skarmory was blessed with a number of partners that can work alongside itself to create remarkable defensive walling combinations together. Latias is a great partner as it is resistant to Electric- and Fire-type moves, which are always threatening Skarmory if they come from opponents that are powerful enough. In return, Skarmory helps Latias resist the Bug-, Dark-, Dragon-, and Ghost-type moves it is weak to. Skarmory and Latias are both perfectly independent in being able to heal themselves with instant recovery moves in the form of Recover and Roost, and because of this they are commonly found in stall teams. Perhaps one of Skarmory's most important partners is a bulky Spin Blocker. Spin Blockers help prevent Rapid Spinners like Starmie and Tentacruel from removing entry hazards from the battlefield; if they succeed, then Skarmory's hard work in setting up Spikes will have been for naught. The Rotom Appliances' common presence in stall teams make them great partners to Skarmory, and they have a bonus of resisting Electric-type moves, too. However, bulky Ghost-types like Dusknoir and Spiritomb should always be considerations. Heatran is also a fantastic Skarmory partner because they are able to work so well together. Fire-moves that Skarmory attracts can be redirected to Heatran to gain a Flash Fire boost. At the same time, Skarmory is immune to Earthquake and can shrug off Surfs coming from bulky Water-types that tend to threaten and knock Heatran out of play. A Bulky Ground-type like Rhyperior is also generally good at working with Skarmory. Rhyperior is immune to Electric-type moves that can deter Skarmory from being able to do its tasks properly, while also sporting a resistance to Fire-type moves. In return, Rhyperior's Ground-, Grass-, and Steel-type weaknesses are covered by Skarmory, who in addition is able to wall some Water- and Ice-type moves to certain extents. Swampert works similarly to Rhyperior, but with less weaknesses - its 4x Grass-type weakness is nullified by Skarmory's 4x Grass-type resistance. Hippowdon also deserves a special mention because its Sand Stream ability can generate a constant sandstorm whose residual damage can bother a wide range of opponents. Skarmory is unaffected by Sandstorm damage and is thus commonly found on Sandstorm stall teams. Also, if you know that an opponent has a Magnezone on their team, other Ground-types like Hippowdon can warn Magnezone not to carelessly switch into Skarmory at wrong times. If Skarmory is killed by Magnezone in the end, Dugtrio can revenge kill Magnezone right back. Don't forget the infamous Skarmory, Cresselia, and Blissey combo meant to function as an unbelievably stable defensive core. Finally, this Skarmory can also work well in Ubers play, countering Shaymin-S without Hidden Power Fire, Garchomp, and Manaphy without rain. With the abundance of Dragon-types in Ubers, Skarmory doesn't have difficulty in finding a partner - for example, Giratina resists Fire- and Electric-type attacks commonly hurled at Skarmory; Skarmory resist Ghost-, Dark-, and Dragon-type attacks fired at Giratina.</p>

<p>This Skarmory finds itself reaching the peak of its potential in teams that greatly appreciate entry hazards on the field. Whether it's a balanced, stall-based, or even minorly offensive team, Specially Defensive Skarmory is sturdy and consistent at the job of setting up Spikes and definitely breaks the traditional "Skarmory will always lose to unresisted special attacks" rule.</p>

 

[Erodent]

Hi dr00, nice of you to stop by. I edited everything, thanks :)

 

[jrrrrrrr]

Hmm....while this set is the exact same as the one currently in the analysis, I personally used this set (and I was the first to post about it in the Stage 3 thread ^___^) but I really don't think it warrants an entirely new set.

Is there a way that we can add this well-written edit to the current set and just say "you can also use this EV spread" without having to make 2 sets or making the first one too cluttered?

 

[Erodent]

Hi jrrrrrrr (props on being the first to post about this set, lol), I agree with you that it's a bit long but I wholeheartedly believe that it's a great set and deserves a spot of its own...can we wait to see what other people think? If they agree with you, then I can get to work on shortening it down immediately.

hhjj - Hello, I removed references to Steelix and Probopass. Thanks for that.

 

[Phantom_IV]

Agreed that it warrants its own slot. There are too many differences between the two to combine them into one set or simply mention another spread in set comments.

 

[Flashstorm1]

I really think that Skarmory should have two sets, instead of simply mentioning an alternate EV spread in the analysis. Obviously, this set is meant to be switched into different attacks than the standard Skarmory, making this set play a little different. I actually had someone run damage calculations, and a +1 max Attack Salamence 2HKOes this thing with Life Orb Outrage after Stealth Rock, and that's saying something.

Also, Forretress runs into a similar issue, as both a specially defensive and a physically defense EV spreads are available to it. Should we get someone to write up a Specially Defensive peer edit for Forretress as well?

 

[mtr]

Impish should be used over Careful. A Steel-typed physical wall being 2HKO'd by Salamence is a shame tantamount to running naked through a retirement community.

Impish minimizes the loss in physical defense, and still lets you take all the hits you need to take. With Impish, Skarmory can take 2 Outrages and Roost off the damage.

With a special spread, Skarmory only loses about 19% of the physicall walling potential it would have had with a physical spread, while gaining about 40% specially defensive potential.

For Forretress, I think Careful works, because of Forry's higher base defenses, but I'm not sure. I use Impish. I agree that someone should write up the spread for special Forretress.

 

[MetaNite]

I am kind of questioning the use of this set. Obviously, it is trying to be a mixed wall but why when you have that enormous Defense stat? Wouldn't it be better to use SkarmBliss, Skarmory takes the physical, Blissey takes the Special Attacks. I'd see the value in this kind of Skarmory if it could stand up to Infernape and other mixed attackers, but it still can't take STAB Fire Blasts while now Salamence can 2HKO with Outrage. On top of that, previous threats it could wall it no longer can. Choice Scarf Heracross 2HKOes this Skarmory, while Tyranitar and Choice Band Metagross very easily 2HKOes with Stone Edge or ThunderPunch, and you can no longer Roost against Swampert as Earthquake will do more than you Roost (although you take Surfs better). Flygon with Life Orb or Choice Band will 2HKO you as well with Fire Punch, while after some residual damage, Choice Band Mamoswine and possibly even Weavile can 2HKO. Gyarados only needs 1 flinch and it beats you, while if you Roost at the wrong time, Scizor can even OHKO you with Superpower. You won't find the time to use Spikes and wall these Pokemon without any Defense EVs. I don't know why you even mention Latias' Surf, as Latias has Thunderbolt to zap you. This set had some use in suspect as the most common Pokemon often times had Choice items, heck entire teams had Choice items and few of those Pokemon with Choice items could hit you super effectively. This is not so in standard. The other reason it was often used over Blissey was Skymin and Seed Flare's SpD drop, which with Specs could actually kill Blissey. Where as Skarmory 4x resists Grass-type and had STAB Brave Bird to take care of it.

Forretress is a different story, as without a recovery move it isn't meant to be a physical wall, just used as a Toxic Spiker. With the SpD evs it set up a lot easier, and then just died or Exploded.

However, I am not saying this set is completely useless. In the rare event Skymin is made OU this set will have value, and this set may work in Ubers too. I haven't tried it in ubers.

 

[mtr]

I've seen Skarmory being used effectively in Ubers as a specialized physical wall, but SDef Skarm is crap on Ubers stall. The reasons are a bit intuitive:

Groudon, Latias, Giratina, and Giratina-O all share one weakness: Ice. The reason SDef Forry is good is not as a special wall: it's because of his Ice and Dragon resistances, which let him come in on Spacial Rends from scarf Palkia and Ice Beams from standard Lugia and easily set up. Skarmory doesn't have the crucial Ice resistance, and it also has an Electric weakness. It is also prone to a 2HKO from a Rayquaza's Outrage, if Salamence can do

607 Atk vs 316 Def & 334 HP (120 Base Power): 161 - 189 (48.20% - 56.59%) with Careful.

607 Atk vs 348 Def & 334 HP (120 Base Power): 146 - 172 (43.71% - 51.50%) with Impish

then Rayquaza can do even more. Forretress doesn't suffer from this problem as much when running Special Defense, thanks to its greater defensive potential, but you will need to invest some physical defense EV's to avoid the 2HKO. Seriously, though, if the point of the set is to be able to set up on weak special attackers, then Forretress does it better. The fact that the Rotom forms have Thunderbolt makes things worse for Skarmory. If you want to use an SDef Skarm, I recommend a different EV Spread that showcases its advantages over Forretress: instant recovery, which works better when you can avoid the 2HKO by Salamence.

Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP/120 Def/134 SDef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
---

This is for OU, which practically guarantees (99.66%) that a +1 LO Outrage from a Salamence will not 2HKO you after Leftovers and Stealth Rock. SDef Skarm is not viable in Ubers. Period.

If you think you can Rapid Spin or stop Stealth Rock, then

Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP/6 Def/252 SDef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
---

is fine.

Metanite's statement should be expanded: in the rare event that Skymin made OU and Garchomp DIDN'T, then this set as is would be great. But if Garchomp comes to OU, teams will need something to sponge Swords Danced Outrages. Skarmory should be able to answer the call, and it can for a nominal investment of 120 Defense EV's and Leftovers.

tl;dr: I'm not trying to put down your work, which is excellent. At least mention that 120 lets you avoid the 2HKO by Salamence.

 

[tab]

A lot of that just really isn't true mtr. If anything, I'd say Sp.Def Skarm is better in Ubers than OU.


Groudon, Latias, Giratina, and Giratina-O all share one weakness: Ice. - true, but lets look at the common Uber IB users: it's pretty much Lugia and Mewtwo, Lugia does 16.77% - 20.06% (if it CMs use WW etc etc), meaning you get 3 free layers of Spikes pretty much, and Forry has no business taking on Mewtwo either.

Every calc you mention applies to Forry too - it can't counter Rayquaza, it isn't taking Thunders etc. The significan difference between the two isn't an Ice resist, it's Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin vs Whirlwind and Roost. Different teams, different needs.

Believe me when I say this, Sp.Def Skarm is far from "crap" on ubers stall. Me and several more well known Ubers players have used it to great success.

As for OU, 252/4/252 Careful is just as viable there - it's very common on the best stall teams which consistently hit 1600+ CRE. There's a whole list of arguments for/against which I won't get into - my main point here is about Ubers. Sp.Def Skarm can still take +2 Chomp Outrages, I used it as my only Chomp check in stage 3 quite easily.

I'm sorry, I don't like calling people out, but please make sure you can speak from experience when making posts like that.

 

[mtr]

Well, most of my post was about dealing with Salamence's Outrage.

But regarding Garchomp...(after one Swords Dance)

718 Atk vs 316 Def & 334 HP (120 Base Power): 147 - 173 (44.01% - 51.80%)-Jolly Garchomp with Yache/Haban Berry versus Careful Skarm.

788 Atk vs 316 Def & 334 HP (120 Base Power): 161 - 189 (48.20% - 56.59%)-Adamant Garchomp with Yache/Haban Berry and Outrage versus Careful Skarm.

716 Atk vs 316 Def & 334 HP (65 Base Power): 212 - 250 (63.47% - 74.85%) Jolly Garchomp with Fire Fang. Cannot be stalled out.

Well, I suppose you could switch-in a Skarmory against a Garchomp because it's a physical pokemon and often choiced. But the point is, it can't take on Salamence right now. You may wish to put it in the analysis after Garchomp comes into OU and Salamence is eliminated as a threat...if that happens.

About Ubers: on all the effective Ubers Stall teams I've seen, Forretress is used as the spinner, as it is "the only viable spinner in Ubers" (ibojangles, Ho-oh analysis). How do PURE stall teams employing Skarmory deal with Deo-S leads, or Deo-S at all? They can't also have Forry around...unless they do? Are you sure you're not discussing stall-based balance, in which a spinner isn't required?

In retrospect, perhaps I was a bit brazen in dismissing Skarmory, but it is certainly not an optimal choice on PURE ubers stall, which needs a spinner or it fails. In a Garchomp-based OU metagame, it may be viable. But right now, the physical sweepers to beat in OU are Salamence and Gyarados. This Skarmory handles neither. Therefore, it should not be put into the analysis until Garchomp or Latios enters OU, especially Garchomp. Once Garchomp enters OU, the current DDMence will fall out of vogue (because of Scarfchomp), meaning that SDef Skarm will become more useful.

 

[Erodent]

MetaNite - What this set is trying to establish is that there are different ways to use a Standard Skarmory. I cannot argue that some of the facts you've mentioned there present Specially Defensive Skarmory in a dark light (remember that Roost can still stall off CB Tyranitar's Stone Edges). However, Ice Beams and Surfs tend to scare off the normal Skarmory, giving this one more opportunities to set up Spikes on a different range of opponents that its physical variant fears or would not like engaging in battle with. It can be argued that this Skarmory takes physical hits significantly worse than the standard physically defensive Spiker, but both sets have their advantages. As argued by mtr12, an Impish nature can be assumed to turn Outrage's 2HKOs into 3HKOs, but I have yet to test that. Also, you state that CB Mamoswine and CB Weavile can 2HKO this set after Skarmory takes residual damage. Really, how much residual damage can it take? Being immune to Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Sandstorm's damage is a plus. Skarmory takes 12.5% from Stealth Rock, and if it has Leftovers, that becomes 6.25%. Weavile does 45% max with Ice Punch, never enough to 2HKO. Mamoswine has a 0.33% chance of 2HKOing this Skarmory with Stone Edge if it has switched into SR and had a turn of Lefties recovery, damage of which can be Roost-stalled until Skarmory can do whatever it sees fit. To put it in perspective, let's examine why people invest 252 Def EVs into Blissey in the first place. 252 Def EVs allows Blissey to take weak physical hits while still maintaining her specially defensive potential. Although this isn't exactly the same, reverse the stats in terms of Skarmory - 252 SpD EVs allows Skarmory to take weak special hits while still being able to tank well with 334 HP / 317 Def. It can also be stated that this set isn't exactly the best way to use Skarmory, as the first sentence of this set's analysis ("From days that date back to as early as GS, Skarmory has regularly been used as a physical wall, switching out from most special attacks directed at it.") states. Skarmory is undeniably one of the best physical walls out there, but it's perfectly capable of running this set; it's just a different way of doing what he's able to do. Sorry for this unattractive block of text.

mtr12, I haven't neglected or forgotten about the 120 Def EVs you seem so keen on to emphasize. I'll fit that into the analysis sooner or later, but please note that Theorymon PMd me yesterday saying that he was in the process of writing a set similar to this but in an Uber Skarmory analysis (which I trust will appear in the next couple of days or so), and for this reason maybe I should just leave any Uber-related content to him and focus on OU with this set. But if you say that an Impish nature and a reasonable amount of Def EVs will help turn Salamence's Outrage into a 3HKO, I'll work that into the analysis in a while.

 

[mtr]

Well, if you are confident that you can get Stealth Rock off the field, you don't need any EV's.

And if Garchomp enters OU, you probably don't need them either, because Fire Fang 2HKO's anyways after a Swords Dance. Unless you are using Hippo/Swampert to lure Garchomp into an Outrage and Skarmory to take it, in which case they may be necessary.

In the interim period before the voting, however, they can help you stand up to Gyarados and Salamence in particular.

607 Atk vs 380 Def & 334 HP (120 Base Power): 134 - 158 (40.12% - 47.31%)

120 EV's and Impish hit 380 Defense. The chance of a 2HKO after Lefties is .33%: if you don't feel like gambling, you can add 12 more EV's.

An alternate spread is:

Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP/82 Def/176 SDef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
---
With this, the chance rises to 9.34%, but you preserve more SDef potential. Again, up to you, but I feel it merits at least a mention.

Oh yeah, this is only for OU. For Ubers, well, 252 HP/4 Spe/252 SpD is good, as Groudon and Lugia (and Palkia on revenge) can deal with Rayquaza and it's a pain to devote the EV's to take 2 Outrages from the dragon.

 

[Flora]

Some quick nitpicks:

<p>Specially Defensive Skarmory is especially adept at taking hits from Dragon-type moves from both sides of the spectrum. Most OU Dragon-type Pokemon hate this Skarmory with a burning passion because it is able to fare so well against them. Choice Specs Latias does an average of 45% with Draco Meteor, while the -2 Special Attack drop it receives will force it to switch out. Similarly, 252 SpA Life Orb Salamence will do around 38% with its Draco Meteor, and a subsequent Fire Blast coming from its -2 SpA stat will be unable to OHKO Skarmory, doing around 44%. Draco Meteors coming from the likes of Dragonite and Kingdra will do even less damage. Skarmory is also able to wall Outrages and Dragon Claws with ease, taking around 44% from non-boosted Life Orb Salamence's Outrage, one of OU's most powerful Outrages. The ability to survive a Fire Blast and Outrage from Mixed Dancer Salamence allow Skarmory to pHaze it if it has set up too much. With Whirlwind and Roost, this Skarmory also makes a reliable check to Calm Mind/Dragon Pulse/Surf Latias, able to pHaze it with Whirlwind while taking a mere average of 40% from a +1 Surf. Skarmory can also combat 80 SpA Flygon without worry, as Fire Blast only has a 43% chance of 2HKOing it if Skarmory has taken damage from Stealth Rock. Choice Scarf Flygon's standard U-turn, Fire Punch, and Outrage will do even less damage to it, and Skarmory has the added bonus of being immune to Earthquakes that tend to come from hard hitters like Rhyperior and Hippowdon. This Skarmory is also tailored to take moves like Ice Beam, Psychic, and Hidden Power Fighting well enough. In the meantime, this (word repetition due to the "this" from the previous sentence, so adding that in would be good imo) set also sports a large element of surprise - a combination of Modest Life Orb Gengar's Thunderbolt and Stealth Rock damage is unable to OHKO it, and the same goes for a combination of Timid Life Orb Starmie's Hydro Pump or Thunderbolt and Stealth Rock damage. In return, Skarmory's Brave Bird does around 68% and 52% respectively to offensive versions of the previously mentioned Gengar and Starmie. It goes without saying that Specially Defensive Skarmory will have an easy time with Pokemon such as Grass-types whose main forms of offense lie in Grass Knot and Leaf Storm, Choiced Psychic-types that have locked into the wrong moves, and Steel-types that believe Steel/Ground moves provide good enough coverage. It should also be noted that 80 SpA Blissey will do only around 35% with Flamethrower, which makes Skarmory able to laugh at it so long as Skarmory continuously uses Roost to regain its health and use Spikes at the right times.</p>

<p>To solve these problems, Skarmory was blessed with a number of partners that can work alongside itself to create remarkable defensive walling combinations together. Latias is a great partner as it is resistant to Electric- and Fire-type moves, which are always threatening Skarmory if they come from opponents that are powerful enough. In return, Skarmory helps Latias resist the Bug-, Dark-, Dragon-, and Ghost-type moves it is weak to. Skarmory and Latias are both perfectly independent in being able to heal themselves with instant recovery moves in the form of Recover and Roost, and because of this they are commonly found in stall teams. Perhaps one of Skarmory's most important partners is a bulky Spin Blocker. Spin Blockers help prevent Rapid Spinners like Starmie and Tentacruel from removing entry hazards from the battlefield; if they succeed, then Skarmory's hard work in setting up Spikes will have been for naught. The Rotom Appliances' common presence in stall teams make them great partners to Skarmory, and they have a bonus of resisting Electric-type moves, too. However, bulky Ghost-types like Dusknoir and Spiritomb should always be considerations. Heatran is also a fantastic Skarmory partner because they are able to work so well together. Fire-moves that Skarmory attracts can be redirected to Heatran to gain a Flash Fire boost. At the same time, Skarmory is immune to Earthquake and can shrug off Surfs coming from bulky Water-types that tend to threaten and knock Heatran out of play. A bulky (wasn't capitalized before so shouldn't be here) Ground-type like Rhyperior is also generally good at working with Skarmory. Rhyperior is immune to Electric-type moves that can deter Skarmory from being able to do its tasks properly, while also sporting a resistance to Fire-type moves. In return, Rhyperior's Ground-, Grass-, and Steel-type weaknesses are covered by Skarmory, who in addition is able to wall some Water- and Ice-type moves to certain extents. Swampert works similarly to Rhyperior, but with less weaknesses - its 4x Grass-type weakness is nullified by Skarmory's 4x Grass-type resistance. Hippowdon also deserves a special mention because its Sand Stream ability can generate a constant sandstorm whose residual damage can bother a wide range of opponents. Skarmory is unaffected by Sandstorm damage and is thus commonly found on Sandstorm stall teams. Also, if you know that an opponent has a Magnezone on their team, other Ground-types like Hippowdon can warn Magnezone not to carelessly switch into Skarmory at wrong times. If Skarmory is killed by Magnezone in the end, Dugtrio can revenge kill Magnezone right back. Don't forget the infamous Skarmory, Cresselia, and Blissey combo meant to function as an unbelievably stable defensive core. Finally, this Skarmory can also work well in Ubers play, countering Shaymin-S without Hidden Power Fire, Garchomp, and Manaphy without rain. With the abundance of Dragon-types in Ubers, Skarmory doesn't have difficulty in finding a partner - for example, Giratina resists Fire- and Electric-type attacks commonly hurled at Skarmory; Skarmory resist Ghost-, Dark-, and Dragon-type attacks fired at Giratina.</p>

 

[deimos]

In the meantime, not at the meantime ;)

 

[Flora]

Lol thanks, I will edit that in. =/

 

[Erodent]

mtr12 - I added a brief mention of an Impish nature + 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD at the end of paragraph four. At this point I think that's all I'm going to add so as to not get mixed up with too many similar EV spreads.

Thank you AromaFlora and deimos.

 

[mtr]

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Anyways, I'll go through here...

Status: Viability being debated upon

In light of the extremely productive Skarmory set that was popularized in recent Suspect play (I assume?), I wrote this set up as I believe it should have a place in the analysis. Feel free to argue if you think it's unnecessary; changes and criticism are always welcome.
Team Options is in brown.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/skarmory

------------------------------------------------------

[SET]
name: Specially Defensive
move 1: Brave Bird
move 2: Roost
move 3: Spikes
move 4: Whirlwind
item: Leftovers / Shed Shell
ability: Keen Eye
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

<p>From days that date back to as early as GS, Skarmory has regularly been used as a physical wall, switching out from most special attacks directed at it. Because of DPP's physical-special split however, circumstances have changed. Skarmory's ability to check a large number of threats by turning into a part-physical, part-special wall is greatly beneficial to many stall-based or balanced teams. At first glance, it may seem that 334 HP and 262 SpD are rather low stats for the purposes of walling, but Skarmory's nine handy resistances and two immunities help compensate for this. In addition, with only 4 Defense EVs, Skarmory still hits a Defense stat of 317, which is more than enough to allow it to take little damage from strong physical attacks like Scizor's Bullet Punch, Weavile's Ice Punch, and Mamoswine's Stone Edge.</p>

<p>The fundamental idea that this set revolves around is simple: come in on neutral or ineffective special attacks from weaker or defensively oriented special attackers, and begin doing what Skarmory was designed to do - set up Spikes while also shrugging off physical attacks that it can handle. Skarmory's specially defensive capabilities can be seen more easily in the following examples: Bold 0 SpA Vaporeon only does 33% on average Surf; Timid 252 SpA Choice Specs Latias only does 40% on average with Surf; Modest 252 SpA Togekiss only does 30% on average with Aura Sphere; Bold 0 SpA Suicune only does 27% with Surf; Timid 252 SpA Cresselia only does 32% on average with Ice Beam after a Calm Mind. Needless to say, most special attacks that are not very effective against Skarmory will do less damage than what has been mentioned in the previous five examples. When you have found something with attacks that are unable to gravely injure Skarmory, send the metal bird in and begin setting up layers of Spikes. However, don't get too cocky when letting Skarmory take special hits; moves like Thunderbolt and Flamethrower will fell it in no time at all. As such, sending this particular Skarmory in on threats like Latias (without Thunderbolt) and Swampert is a good move, but sending it in on threats like Heatran and Rotom Appliances is entirely unreasonable.</p>

<p>This Skarmory's moveset is simple and requires no complicated elaboration - Brave Bird is its strongest means of offense. While weak, it can certainly threaten frail Pokemon like Alakazam and Smeargle, while doing 4x damage to Breloom and Heracross in OU. Brave Bird is mainly for striking Infernape and Gyarados. Maybe mention Taunt or Drill Peck, as this set isn't meant to deal with Gyarados.Roost cannot be neglected on any of Skarmory's sets, since this godsend of a move is what tends to make it one of today's best walls. With Spikes, Skarmory turns into a highly supportive team player, setting up the entry hazards that can chip off 25% of opponent's health right off the bat if they are not Flying-types or have the Levitate ability. Stealth Rock can be used in the place of Spikes, but this is not recommended, as few Pokemon are so good at setting up Spikes as Skarmory is. Skarmory is not a poor Stealth Rock user, but it will likely find that Spikes is a more useful choice as it usually has much time to set them up. Finally, Whirlwind offers Skarmory the ability to phaze away threats, which is useful against Pokemon like Dragon Dance Tyranitar or Dragon Dance Gyarados or against an incoming strong special attacker to inflict further residual damage.</p>

<p>Specially Defensive Skarmory is especially adept at taking hits from Dragon-type moves from both sides of the spectrum. Most OU Dragon-type Pokemon hate this Skarmory with a burning passion because it is able to fare so well against them. Choice Specs Latias does an average of 45% with Draco Meteor, while the -2 Special Attack drop it receives will force it to switch out. Similarly, 252 SpA Life Orb Salamence will do around 38% with its Draco Meteor, and a subsequent Fire Blast coming from its -2 SpA stat will be unable to OHKO Skarmory, doing around 44%. Draco Meteors coming from the likes of Dragonite and Kingdra will do even less damage. Skarmory is also able to wall Outrages and Dragon Claws with ease, taking around 44% from non-boosted Life Orb Salamence's Outrage, one of OU's most powerful Outrages. The ability to survive a Fire Blast and Outrage from Mixed Dancer Salamence allow Skarmory to pHaze it if it has set up too much. With Whirlwind and Roost, this Skarmory also makes a reliable check to Calm Mind/Dragon Pulse/Surf Latias, able to pHaze it with Whirlwind while taking a mere average of 40% from a +1 Surf. Skarmory can also combat 80 SpA Flygon without worry, as Fire Blast only has a 43% chance of 2HKOing it if Skarmory has taken damage from Stealth Rock. Choice Scarf Flygon's standard U-turn, Fire Punch, and Outrage will do even less damage to it, and Skarmory has the added bonus of being immune to Earthquakes that tend to come from hard hitters like Rhyperior and Hippowdon. This Skarmory is also tailored to take moves like Ice Beam, Psychic, and Hidden Power Fighting well enough. In the meantime, this set also sports a large element of surprise - a combination of Modest Life Orb Gengar's Thunderbolt and Stealth Rock damage is unable to OHKO it, and the same goes for a combination of Timid Life Orb Starmie's Hydro Pump or Thunderbolt and Stealth Rock damage. In return, Skarmory's Brave Bird does around 68% and 52% respectively to offensive versions of the previously mentioned Gengar and Starmie. It goes without saying that Specially Defensive Skarmory will have an easy time with Pokemon such as Grass-types whose main forms of offense lie in Grass Knot and Leaf Storm, Choiced Psychic-types that have locked into the wrong moves, and Steel-types that believe Steel/Ground moves provide good enough coverage. It should also be noted that 80 SpA Blissey will do only around 35% with Flamethrower, which makes Skarmory able to laugh at it so long as Skarmory continuously uses Roost to regain its health and use Spikes at the right times. Furthermore, an Alternative EV spread that is designed to achieve a specific purpose can also be used for this set. With an Impish nature and a spread of 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD, +1 Life Orb Salamence will never 2HKO this Skarmory with Outrage in more than 99% of cases, factoring in Stealth Rock damage and one turn of Leftovers recovery. An Impish nature generally grants more physically defensive potential that Skarmory is well-known for, while still maintaining a decent Special Defense stat.</p>

<p>Though Specially Defensive Skarmory is not immediately threatened by the likes of Tentacruel and Vaporeon who can usually scare off physically defensive variants of Skarmory, it does have a number of enemies that it would greatly long to have removed from a match. Heatran and Rotom Appliances can effortlessly switch right into Skarmory, resisting Brave Bird and threatening it with special moves that are too powerful for it to handle. If Infernape comes in on anything except Whirlwind or Brave Bird, then a Life Orb boosted Flamethrower or Fire Blast is sure to OHKO Skarmory. Blaziken and Machamp work very similarly, as Skarmory will not enjoy taking damage from Fire Blasts or DynamicPunches from the respective foes. Another way to shut the metal bird down is to have a bulky Pokemon use Taunt. Taunt disables the use of three of Skarmory's moves, and if Brave Bird is unable to do much damage to a Taunt user, then Skarmory will be forced to switch out. An interesting yet effective Taunt user is Stallbreaker Gliscor. It can use Taunt to seriously limit Skarmory's capabilities and use U-turn on the switch. Bulky Taunt Gyarados will also cause problems if Skarmory is unable to Whirlwind it out of play immediately. Other Pokemon that annoy Skarmory include those that can take advantage of its low Speed stat and begin using all sorts of nasty things, ranging from Spore coming from Smeargle or Trick coming from Jirachi. Rapid Spinners like Claydol or Forretress don't take much damage from Brave Bird and can spin away Skarmory's Spikes if there are already some in play. Finally, Magnezone, Skarmory's greatest archenemy, can cause problems if it switches in on anything except Whirlwind. However, Timid Choice Scarf Magnezone should always take great caution in trying to take down this set, as Thunderbolt is never able to OHKO this Skarmory without any Stealth Rock damage. For this reason, Shed Shell is an acceptable choice of item to equip on Skarmory, as it will allow it to switch out of Magnet Pull.</p>

<p>To solve these problems, Skarmory was blessed with a number of partners that can work alongside itself to create remarkable defensive walling combinations together. Latias is a great partner as it is resistant to Electric- and Fire-type moves, which are always threatening Skarmory if they come from opponents that are powerful enough. In return, Skarmory helps Latias resist the Bug-, Dark-, Dragon-, and Ghost-type moves it is weak to. Skarmory and Latias are both perfectly independent in being able to heal themselves with instant recovery moves in the form of Recover and Roost, and because of this they are commonly found in stall teams. Perhaps one of Skarmory's most important partners is a bulky Spin Blocker. Spin Blockers help prevent Rapid Spinners like Starmie and Tentacruel from removing entry hazards from the battlefield; if they succeed, then Skarmory's hard work in setting up Spikes will have been for naught. The Rotom Appliances' common presence in stall teams make them great partners to Skarmory, and they have a bonus of resisting Electric-type moves, too. However, bulky Ghost-types like Dusknoir and Spiritomb should be considered if you have another method of combating Gyarados or you favor the better Lucario matchup that Spiritomb can bring. (why they should be used) Heatran is also a fantastic Skarmory partner because they are able to work so well together. Fire-moves that Skarmory attracts can be redirected to Heatran to gain a Flash Fire boost. At the same time, Skarmory is immune to Earthquake and can shrug off Surfs coming from bulky Water-types that tend to threaten and knock Heatran out of play. A bulky Ground-type like Rhyperior is also generally good at working with Skarmory. Rhyperior is immune to Electric-type moves that can deter Skarmory from being able to do its tasks properly, while also sporting a resistance to Fire-type moves. In return, Rhyperior's Ground-, Grass-, and Steel-type weaknesses are covered by Skarmory, who in addition is able to wall some Water- and Ice-type moves to certain extents. Swampert works similarly to Rhyperior no, it usually doesn't. Swampert works as a tank. Rhyperior usually works as a sweeper, bulky or not. Swampert's typing makes it a great tank. Rhyperior's typing means that it is only marginally useful as a tank. Mention that 3 layers of Spikes enables Rhyperior to OHKO Suicune after a Swords Dance (calculations in my edit)., but with less weaknesses - its 4x Grass-type weakness is nullified by Skarmory's 4x Grass-type resistance. Hippowdon also deserves a special mention because its Sand Stream ability can generate a constant sandstorm whose residual damage can bother a wide range of opponents. Skarmory is unaffected by Sandstorm damage and is thus commonly found on Sandstorm stall teams. Also, if you know that an opponent has a Magnezone on their team, other Ground-types like Hippowdon can warn Magnezone not to carelessly switch into Skarmory at wrong times. If Skarmory is killed by Magnezone in the end, Dugtrio can revenge kill Magnezone right back. Yes, but the very fact that Dugtrio is working alongside this Skarmory means that you have made an inoptimal choice in team-building. Dugtrio is only good on hyper-offensive teams because it can't come in on anything but Electric-type attacks, and according to the writer of the current Skarmory analysis (I think diinbong), Skarmory is not worthy of mention on a hyper-offensive team, although it works everywhere else. Don't forget the infamous Skarmory, Cresselia, and Blissey combo meant to function as an unbelievably stable defensive core. Finally, this Skarmory can also work well in Ubers play, countering Shaymin-S without Hidden Power Fire, Garchomp, Lugia, and Manaphy without rain. With the abundance of Dragon-types in Ubers, Skarmory doesn't have difficulty in finding a partner - for example, Giratina resists Fire- and Electric-type attacks commonly hurled at Skarmory; Skarmory resist Ghost-, Dark-, and Dragon-type attacks fired at Giratina.</p>

<p>This Skarmory finds itself reaching the peak of its potential in teams that greatly appreciate entry hazards on the field. Whether it's a balanced, stall-based, or even a bulky ("minorly" isn't a word) offense team, Specially Defensive Skarmory is sturdy and consistent at the job of setting up Spikes and definitely breaks the traditional "Skarmory will always lose to unresisted special attacks" rule.</p>

Great work overall, just a few things that should be cleared up.

 

[Erodent]

MetaNite and I have decided to collaborate on improving the EVs of this set after Stage 3 voting ends. The reason for this is that Specially Defensive Skarmory got so much use in Suspect primarily because of its ability to deal with many of the suspects there (Garchomp, Skymin, Lati(@)s...). Once these suspects are determined OU or Uber, we'll work from there, as this set will rely on certain specifications and ability to take hits based on optimal EVs. Until then, adios!

EDIT: I'll edit them in, thanks a lot mtr!

 

[Snorlaxe]

While this set is a good write up, it seems slightly ineffective. In a SkarmBliss combo (where this is usually used), each one is designed to take hits from different ends of the spectrum. Trying to make a Skarmory do a Blissey's job just seems like a lost cause to me. Skarmory was born to take physical hits and set up entry hazads, and the best way to play a Skarmory is to max out its Defense. I cant really see this set becoming popular in OU, or Ubers for that matter. Maybe this would be a set listed in "other options" on the analysis?​

 

[tab]

Sorry, but you're missing the point of the set really. A Skarmory with Careful and 252 Sp. Def EVs isnt suddenly unable to take physical hits - it still takes the vast majority of hits that it's required to on a stall team extremely well.

Of course you aren't going to be using this in a team with 4 offensive pokemon and a random SkarmBliss (but I'd argue you shouldn't be using a team like that at all). This isn't even supposed to be used in SkarmBliss teams. It's for stall teams, in which it is incredibly useful, especially when you consider that at the bare minimum, OU stall teams will also be carrying a Swampert and Gyarados. It's even better in Ubers.

I don't know why you're saying you can't see it becoming popular. It is popular in both OU and Ubers. Many of the most successful OU stall teams use it.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

About the viability of the set - if you haven't used it, don't talk trash about it. Several players have already posted that they have used the set to success in this thread...theorymon alone from people who have never used it won't change the fact that it works.

While this set is a good write up, it seems slightly ineffective. In a SkarmBliss combo (where this is usually used), each one is designed to take hits from different ends of the spectrum. Trying to make a Skarmory do a Blissey's job just seems like a lost cause to me. Skarmory was born to take physical hits and set up entry hazads, and the best way to play a Skarmory is to max out its Defense. I cant really see this set becoming popular in OU, or Ubers for that matter. Maybe this would be a set listed in "other options" on the analysis?​

First of all why do you center your posts, its a pain in the ass to read especially after getting to the end and finding out that you dont actually have any experience to contribute to the thread.

Secondly:

538 Atk vs 262 Def & 334 HP (95 Base Power): 280 - 330 (83.83% - 98.80%)

Max SpDef Careful Skarmory can survive a Choice Specs Thunderbolt from Latios (or Soul Dew in Ubers)...although I agree that you might want to make it Impish to not be 2HKOd by Salamence's Outrage. Granted, Choice Specs Latios won't be much of an issue much longer, but that was just to give you an idea of how this set is not fucking around when it comes to taking special hits

I've seen Skarmory being used effectively in Ubers as a specialized physical wall, but SDef Skarm is crap on Ubers stall. The reasons are a bit intuitive:

You should really try a set out before dismissing it as "crap"

Groudon, Latias, Giratina, and Giratina-O all share one weakness: Ice. The reason SDef Forry is good is not as a special wall: it's because of his Ice and Dragon resistances, which let him come in on Spacial Rends from scarf Palkia and Ice Beams from standard Lugia and easily set up. Skarmory doesn't have the crucial Ice resistance, and it also has an Electric weakness.

Ice attacks are not used in Ubers, as Tab pointed out. Everything that would use Ice attacks gets STAB on something better (Draco Meteor, for instance).

Contrary to your claims about needing an Ice resistance, this Skarmory can lay Spikes down while it laughs at Ice Beams even from Modest Scarf Kyogre. Keep in mind that this is the strongest Ice attack that you will see in any tier, only next to SpecsOgre's Ice Beam:

438 Atk vs 262 Def & 334 HP (95 Base Power): 114 - 135 (34.13% - 40.42%)...not even close to a 2HKO

Neither Forry nor Skarm has any business staying in on SpecsOgre, though

Electric attacks are extremely predictable as well, and they are actually very dangerous in Ubers because they give Groudon a free Rock Polish (which is really bad considering Skarmory's Spikes support!). If anything you are making a case to use SpDef Skarm, not to give up on it.

Metanite's statement should be expanded: in the rare event that Skymin made OU and Garchomp DIDN'T, then this set as is would be great. But if Garchomp comes to OU, teams will need something to sponge Swords Danced Outrages. Skarmory should be able to answer the call, and it can for a nominal investment of 120 Defense EV's and Leftovers.

That's another thing that SpDef Skarm loves: taking random Fire Blasts from ScarfChomp

196 Atk vs 262 Def & 334 HP (120 Base Power): 130 - 154 (38.92% - 46.11%)

Using this set means that Garchomp can not 2hko you with any unboosted move

In retrospect, perhaps I was a bit brazen in dismissing Skarmory, but it is certainly not an optimal choice on PURE ubers stall, which needs a spinner or it fails.

Nope, you don't need a spinner. You can just use a counter to Deoxys-S leads and you will be perfectly fine. Uber stall is rare, you would hardly even have to account for opposing Forretress. Skarmory+Forry would be perfectly usable anyways considering that they both resist the 3 most important types in ubers: Dragon/Ghost/Dark

Seriously, you are trying to pass this set off as shit when there are already 4 people in this thread who have vouched for its effectiveness, despite the fact that you have never even used it.

I am kind of questioning the use of this set. Obviously, it is trying to be a mixed wall but why when you have that enormous Defense stat? Wouldn't it be better to use SkarmBliss, Skarmory takes the physical, Blissey takes the Special Attacks. I'd see the value in this kind of Skarmory if it could stand up to Infernape and other mixed attackers, but it still can't take STAB Fire Blasts while now Salamence can 2HKO with Outrage.

It's cool to question the set but at least use better reasoning than "Skarmory is a Physical wall not a mixed wall" as if every Pokemon has some Arceus-given role that it can not defy. It's not about taking on Infernape and Salamence, its about using things like Suicune and Latias to set up Spikes with...as well as being a great last resort pHazer. It also prevents you from automatically losing your Spiker/pHazer if you get caught off guard by a Flamethrower Blissey or Tyranitar. Not every special attacker is countered by Blissey and not every physical attacker is countered by Skarmory. Even random things like Snorlax carry special Fire moves to beat Skarmory, this set takes that common occurrence and turns it into more setup bait.

Skarmory can do a lot of cool things with max Defense, but the point of this edit isn't to replace the current spread...its to add a separate one.

I don't know why you even mention Latias' Surf, as Latias has Thunderbolt to zap you.

319 Atk vs 262 Def & 334 HP (95 Base Power): 168 - 198 (50.30% - 59.28%)

Latias comes in and you Roost as it attacks. This lets you know a few things: 1) if it invests heavily in SpAtk 2) its item 3) its moves and 4) if it uses anything except for Thunderbolt you are all set to lay more Spikes or pHaze