Sep - Oct Ubers Metagame General Discussion

Metagame Analysis (Platinum) - Ubers Metagame

Platinum brought about a lot of changes to the Uber metagame and after playing it these past few days i've started to see some common trends appear amoung its inhabitants

Mewtwo


I've seen these occasionally, but not as common as one would expect from the "God of Pokemon". The most common set i'm seeing is the generic Calm Mind set with Aura Sphere and Ice Beam, but some interesting sets have started popping up like all special attacking Life Orbed Mewtwo as well as Physical walling sets. Imo Mewtwo still has a long way to go before people can decide which sets will work best in the Platinum metagame.

Mew


The only Mew I see are used as leads. People seem to have given up on the Baton Passer for a more generic Hypnosis, Explosion, Trick, Stealth Rock lead set. Nothing special but the addition of trick really helps it out at screwing with other common leads like Stealth Rock Dialga and Deoxys.

Lugia


Lugia is still very common as a means of handling the ever present Groudon and Rayquaza, where it has now taken to using a more Speed orientated EV spread to help beat Swords Dance Ray with Ice Beam before it is taken out with a +2 Outrage. Lugia got 2 decent additions in Earth Power and Trick but I still have yet to see anyone using them with any regularity.

Ho-oh


Haven't seen any Ho-oh at all. The threat of Stealth Rock just seems to be too much for the bird to handle.

Latias


Haven't seen too many of these. Maybe its because Outrage is everywhere or maybe its because Latias didn't get enough useful additions but it still stands that seeing one of these is a rarity.

Latios


see Latias.

Kyogre


Scarf Kyogre usage has all but dwindled down to a mere trickle, with Specs Ogre and the occasional Calm Mind Ogre being the most common sets. No new notable additions (not like it needed anything else) but still remains a very common threat.

Groudon


The common supporting sets from the D/P metagame seem to have disappeared in favour of more offensive sets. Rock Polish and Swords Dance Groudons are all very common and causing quite a lot of havoc as people scramble to try to find decent counters.

Rayquaza

Swords Dance is the first thing you think when you see Ray these days, and for a good reason as it is very common and quite destructive. Mixed sets are sometimes seen and can catch an unwary opponent offguard but are still in the minority. Even rarer than the mixed set is the Dragon Dancer. A few months ago people would have never thought the Dragon Dancer would drop so low in usage but it has and people aren't even preparing for it anymore.

I've seen only two of them and both times they decimated they're opponents team because he was overly prepared for the Swords Dancer, which shows DDance Ray is still a serious threat, but not much people seem to realise that at this moment.


Deoxys (All Forms)

Sash Deoxys -F seems to be the most common Deoxys form, used mostly as a lead with Stealth Rock and 3 attacks, I have only seen a few Life Orbed variants but they still cause a lot of problems for teams. Neither of the other Deoxys Forms I can say I've seen enough to really make a statement about them.

Garchomp

Scarf Chomp is a pest, not common but with it's excellent STAB attacks and equally impressive Speed it remains one of the best Uber revenge killers in the metagame.

Dialga

Despite the hype around Magnet Rise Dialga I have yet to see one at all as people seem to be using sets they are more familiar with. Bulk Up Dialga with Outrage as proved itself enough to be considered a top threat in the metagame, but as Outrage and Sleep talk do not work properly at the moment its potential is still limited. Scarf Dialga also seems to be picking up in popularity as a means of dealing with Swords Dance Rayquaza and Darkrai. Specs Dialga and Mix Dialga are both pretty rare but still do their job rather well.


Palkia

Scarf Palkia is still the most common set. Mixed and physical sets are being tested out but I haven't seen too much of them.


Giratina (All Forms)

So far people seem to be messing with physical Giratina-O sets mostly but there are a few special variants here and there. Giratina-A is just about as common, however people are still sticking to the generic Will O Wisp, Dragon Claw, Rest Sleep Talk set and not many users seem daring enough to try Outrage on the set so Giratina-A hasn't really changed much with Platinum.

Manaphy


Manaphy wasn't very common in D/P and Platinum hasn't done him any favours. I've seen two of them in the time that i've been playing and both were on the recieving ends of attacks which killed them. Not much to say about Manaphy.

Darkrai

On just about every team, with good reason. Nasty Plot, Dark Void, Focus Blast, Dark Pulse complimented by Darkrai's high speed has forced alot of teams to carry a Scarfed pokemon just to try to deal with this beast. Swords Dance sets are few, but still cause alot of damage, especially to those expecting the Nasty Plot set. Definitely one of the top metagame threats right now.

Arceus


Still unreleased.
 

Caelum

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NP Darkrai is everywhere. I've seen a significant fall in "pure" stall teams because I believe most have found it too difficult to deal with a well played NP Darkrai since it's nearly impossibly to wall and there aren't any viable phazors that can really take a boosted Dark Pulse / Focus Blast and then Whirlwind it out. SD Darkrai fits a nice niche since it usually beats the most common ways used to kill NP Darkrai.

Magnet Rise on Dialga has been largely hyped, but hasn't fleshed out. Outrage > Dragon Claw on the Bulk Up set is the standard now. This could be a product of that people just want to try it and will shift back to the other Dialga sets, but for right now Bulk Up seems king. I think the Outrage/Sleep Talk thing was fixed btw Maniac.

Random Outrages are coming from things like Palkia now. It may not be the most effective move on it, generally speaking, but the surprise can mess up any uber player.

Giratina-O seems pretty popular, probably because it's new though When it's used it usually appears to be played as an offensive Calm Minder. People are starting to use Spikes + Toxic Spikes Forretress more to complement Giratina's anti-spin as well. Giratina-A has largely remained the same though.

Bulk Up Groudon has been popping up along with the variants Maniac mentioned.

Despite Trick being given everywhere, it hasn't been used much. I think eventually it will find average popularity once the potential of it is seen since Trick in ubers is a pretty foreign concept.
 
I think the Outrage/Sleep Talk thing was fixed btw Maniac.
It hasn't been completely fixed, as you can get confused in your Sleep and you cannot pick another move if you've been slept immediately after using Outrage, so it still has some bugs to be worked out.
 

Jibaku

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Reposting what I have posted in the other thread

EDITED with more info
I played a couple of games today/yesterday/days before and here's what I noticed

- Rayquazas are on every team. 99% of the time they are the Swords Dance versions, as stated by Maniac. I haven't ran into any DD versions, but it's never bad to come prepared. I've seen someone use Scarf Ray before, and caught my Mewtwo off guard.
- Specs Kyogre is like uber common now. I wonder if people want to metagame against me...
Seriously, Specs is the only form of Kyogre I really see these days, besides very few Scarf and almost nonexistent Calm Minder Kyogres.
- Darkrai is the best Pokemon not counting Arceus atm. I'm not kidding that thing is just awesome. Maybe it's just me having a bias for (not against) Darkrai.
- I find Giratina-O is capable of killing one or two guys before dying. It's hard to get full sweeps with him (I have managed to though), but still, two for the price of one isn't bad. Giratina-O is a pretty good Pokemon imo, better than what people expected from him. He's probably not going to be top in ubers, but yeah don't underestimate this.
- CM/Roar Kyogre is a beast. Period.
- I really like Mewtwo in this gen. SDRay counter ftw! Oh and I stalled out a ScarfPalkia with it once. It's awesome. Mewtwo can also counter BU Dialga and probably BU Palkia as well so please try him out. I meant WoW/Recover/Taunt/Ice Beam, duh.
- People are running abnormally high Special Defense on Groudon...
- I see very very few Giratina-O :(. I've only seen physical versions...one with Sub, the other with Rest/Talk. Seriously give some love to the Calm Minder >_>. IMO Gira-O is a decent stall breaker but someone might argue with that.
- Scarfdialgas are starting to become common
- I hate Mew now. It Transformed into my +4 SA/SD Kyogre and then Roared it away :( (was paralyzed when he transformed)
- Surprisingly, almost no one uses Lati@s...
- Deoxys-S leads are annoying. They get a layer of SR and then one or two layers of Spikes and since I don't have a Spinner switching was a hassle.
- Deoxys-A leads aren't too annoying unless they carry Shadow Ball.
- Maniac, I find SR Groudons everywhere actually, although Polish Dons are rising in usage nowadays. I've also seen Bulk Up versions who survive my Kyogre's Surf in the rain (...)
- All the Lugias I ran into have Whirlwind.
- Choice Band Giratina-A is pretty devastating if you don't have a Lugia, and I don't believe Lugia likes to switch into Shadow Claws either.



Unrelated:
Outrage is bugged on Shoddy. In game it uses one PP per full Outrage. In Shoddy it wastes one PP everytime you use it.

So, if that's not clear
In game:
1PP: 2-3 turns of Outrage
Shoddy:
2-3 PP: 2-3 turns of Outrage

I was forced to stall when a BU Dragon Claw Dialga came out because of this
 

Caelum

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Well, it appears we have some stats now for September so lets take another look ^_^.

-Kyogre is still the most used uber Pokemon, it probably will stay that way for some time. However, it's interesting to note that Choice Specs Kyogre (39.5%) is the most popular variant of Kyogre at the moment. It's hard to explain in some respects, but this could be in response to the resurgence of popularity of uber stall and bulky sweepers since popular switch ins to the Scarf set (Blissey, Celebi) aren't taking Water Spouts well from the Specs. This could also be a result of the decline in Latios use, who were one of the few decent Specs Kyogre counters.

- SD Rayquaza (60.6%) has completely usurped DD Rayquaza's (28.7%) throne. I can't really explain the reasoning behind this but I believe this is the primary reason now that Forretress (#19 in usage) is rising. Not only is Forretress a decent counter once SD Rayquaza is locked into Outrage, but Stealth Rock is such a vital part to SD Rayquaza's set that getting it off the field can help out teams a lot. I think this Pokemon is also attributable to the rise of Choice Scarf Dialga (23.4%). If Palkia switches into a Rayquaza after it has Sword Danced most people will expect a Choice Scarf and act accordingly. However, Choice Scarf Dialga is a surprise so they are likely to stay in an go for the EQ. A bonus being it resists Extremespeed. I really see the metagame surrounding around SD Rayquaza.

- Dual Screen Bronzong (46.6% have Light Clay so it's fair to assume) is the most popular variant of Bronzong. It is being used as an aid for things like DD Tyranitar. Very threatening to a lot of teams.

Just some quick thoughts, might edit in more later.
 

Jibaku

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I think SDRay is higher up on the list because Scarf Palkia is very common and stops a DDRay sweep. However, the increase in Scarf Dialga might turn this one around. I predict that SDRay will slowly decline in usage because frankly it really isn't tough to stop, unless your opponent is ridiculous and gets three spikes and a Stealth Rock or so. Lugias can be EVed to outrun SDRay and whack it with Ice Beam. Mewtwo is the next best contender for a counter to SDRay...the physical wall variant, of course. Mewtwo can repeatedly force SDRay to switch out (use Recover as SDRay switches away), and SR and LO damage will slowly wear Ray down. As mentioned before, the rise of Scarfdialga might slowly cut the use of SDRay in the future.

EDIT:
I find Giratina-O tough to work with in an offensive metagame after using him many times, but he works really great against stall teams. This is probably why he's used rarely-because he doesn't fare well against the faster Dragons and the new Outrage Dialga who 2HKOes Giratina-O as opposed to the 3HKO with Dragon Claw. Doesn't mean he sucks, though...but simply a bit mediocre in the current metagame state. Calm Mind Giratina-O, with his immunity to Seismic Toss and good defenses to work with, can rip stall teams pretty well, as speed isn't a huge factor in stall teams and it suddenly makes base 90 speed moderately fast with a few EVs.
 

Jibaku

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Alright a month as gone by since my last post, and this isn't in mid November yet so I'm just going to post and not make a new thread.

Mewtwo- As far as Mewtwo goes, I'm beginning to see more all out attacker set. Flamethrower/Grass Knot/Ice Beam/Aura Sphere @ Life Orb is quite common I think. Calm Minder is still common and I have only seen one physical wall Mewtwo that is not my own in the past month. Selfdestruct is sometimes used.

Mew- Mew is perhaps one of the most ridiculous Pokemon to date. First you lay SR and if possible, Spikes with another member. Then another member creates the Screens and suicides, leaving Mew with super bulk and is able to set up and pass with ease. The best way to beat Mew without having to resort to random Scarftaunters is to predict when it will come out. If you have Specs Ogre you can Spout or Hydro Pump and 2HKO it. Or you can send out your own Taunter when Mew comes out and tear it apart.

Lugia- Still common, although numbers seem to be declining because of Rock Polish Groudon. Not much to say here.

Ho-oh- I have seen a few, but too little in amount to decide what set is most dominant in the metagame. Either way, the extremely common Stealth Rock eats it up.

Latias- The numbers of Latias seem to be rising. This is probably due to Specs Kyogre. Latias does fairly well in this metagame just for that factor, although it is weak to Pursuit and stuff like TTar can Pursuit it and then have kyogre reign once more. Still, being the best non Shedinja counter to Specs Ogre in the game is very noteworthy.

Latios- Much less of an appearance than Latias, probably due to his inability to take on Spouts and stuff.

Kyogre- This is...the most dominant Pokemon in the whole uber metagame. Rarely do I see a team without it-it is just so powerful and centralizing. Choice Specs Water Spout is ridiculous-it can even scratch over 50% to Latias at full health. The reason why Palkia is extremely common in today's metagame...because it can take Water Spout and live (and also get support from rain). Of course that's not without the fact that Palkia can take over 40% from Spout :/ Most Specsogre I see are Modest, but there are a few Timid ones that pop out and unexpectedly destroy Modest ones. CM Ogre is quite rare now, and Scarfogre is almost nonexistant. This is the first thing you'd want to be on the lookout for when building a team. Also notable as the only that is so powerful it can 2HKO Mew under Screens with neutral attacks. Specs Water Spout is roughly as powerful as Metagross' Explosion btw.

Groudon- Rock Polish is the #1 thing you'll see nowadays...I blame whoever popularized it (not who created it). It causes a lot of pain and it's tough to counter it, especially in an offensive metagame. Groudon also makes its mark as providing an immunity to Thunder, and can counter Waterfall-less Rayquaza. Swords Dancers are rare but they cause quite a bit of pain. Very few SR Groudon remain today

Rayquaza- Swords Dance is very dominant, but DDRay is making a rise. Rayquaza is perhaps the second most common Pokemon after Kyogre. DDRay should be used more imo-it can catch SDRay counters such as Scarfdialga and Lugia. One thing that keeps DDRay from being super dominant, though, is ScarfPalkia, which are every common because of Specs Ogre.

Deoxys-N- No

Deoxys-D- I have seen a few. Mostly with Knock Off/SR/Recover and some other move (either Spikes or Light Screen). I dunno lol.

Deoxys-S- Super common as a suicide lead. ES/Taunt/Spikes/SR @ Sash. Deoxys-S speed ties are just about the most frustrating stuff in the game, though.

Deoxys-A- Again super common as a suicide lead. ES/SR/Superpower/[Grass Knot/Shadow Ball] @ Sash

Garchomp- Not much use. I see the Dancer as the most common, although I'm going to go ahead and say Scarf is very close behind

Dialga- Quite common. Most Dialgas I see are Bulk Up variants, but Scarf Dialga has become more common to kill SDRay. Magnet Rise Dialga is nonexistent (what?). Mix and Specs are extremely rare.

Palkia- Dominant, and as stated before can somewhat absorb Water Spouts. 99% of the time, you can expect that it is Scarfed. Being able to revenge kill many uber threats such as DDRay and Darkrai is a really good enough for people to abuse this thing. People have been using Draco Meteor over Fire Blast nowadays, possibly because of its power. Draco can OHKO Giratina, which also deserves a mention. I've only seen a few Bulk Up variants. Lustrous orb mix Palkia can sometimes pull off a surprise because people tend to send in Scizors to take on Spacial Rends and stuff.

Giratina- Kind of rare, possibly because the hyperoffensive metagame limits it a lot. Gira is still a major component in stall teams, though, due to its ability to block Spin. Most I see are WoW/DClaw/Rest/Sleep Talk, although a few CMers are appearing.

Giratina-O- Rare as well. I can't really tell what people use, unfortunately. The most common set appears to be the Calm Minder, and the choice between the moves afterwards are not set in stone. Gira-O is decent, though, as it blocks Spin and can destroy stall in one way or the other. He can still pull off a practically guaranteed kill, and Substitute is really great when you can keep it from breaking (which happens more commonly than you think). Things like Palkia's Surf can be set up on, and after a CM Surf fails to break the Sub unless it CHes.

Manaphy- Haven't seen enough or had it stay on the field long enough to find the most dominant set

Darkrai- Another monster in today's metagame, living in the top five (the other four are Kyogre, Palkia, Rayquaza and Groudon). With massive base speed and SA to work with, this brings up another reason why ScarfPalkia is so common-to revenge kill it. Nasty Plotter with Orb or Sash seem to be the most common, but the Trick version are rising in usage because it decimates both Deoxys leads as well as the rare Azelf lead. The Swords Dancer makes a limited appearance and hasn't really shown any potential...
 

Jibaku

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I really dislike having to triple post. Come on people-if you know about the metagame pretty well and you have access to it, post.

The metagame hasn't progressed (with the exception of Darkrai leads being dominant over Deoxys leads), but I think it will very soon. Quite recently, Xtreemasheen and a few other people used a BP team on ladder. That means something at least, right? Or does it look like there will be a metagame shift?

But tht's not where it's at. Recently, it appears that Calm Mind/Thunder/Surf/Ice Beam Kyogre, quite possibly the most ancient set for it, has immense destructive potential for this metagame. Whereas people tend to send in Palkia against Kyogre, CMed Thunder or Ice Beam will shut it cold while it can't do anything back unless it has Outrage. While Latias still stops this thing it's definitely something to watch out for.

Skarmory is something I've recently used in the uber metagame. Because it is very neglected, it can be extremely handy. Rayquazas don't carry Flamethrower that often iirc (if it does it loses to Dialga or loses ExtremeSpeed), and gets utterly walled by it. Rock Polish Groudons without Fire Punch also gets stopped by this-along with other forms of Groudons. BU Dialga is a great set up bait for Skarmory, although you should use Skarmory as your counter to it because you can't Whirlwind it in end game. Stops FFless Garchomp as well.

Skarmory's Special Defensive ability should not be underestimated. While base 65 HP / 70 SDef sounds very lackluster (and it is), it can easily absorb Spacial Rends or Dragon Pulses. I might sound horribly crazy at this point, but I run a Careful Skarmory with max HP and tons of Special Defense. In the rain, a Mewtwo's Life Orbed Flamethrower DOES LESS than 50% to it, which is pretty good (you can't wall Fire Blast though, I'm sorry). Obviously this means taking on SDed LO DClaw from Rayquaza is a bit harder, but it still does <50% and you can easily Roost and Whirlwind it out. Finally, the crazy amount of SDef can be handy against random things such as Darkrai's Nasty Plotted Dark Pulse (which does less than 50%, unless it's Orbed, and even then it may still be a 3HKO with Lefties factored in). Oh and it can survive a Thunder from Latias so if you need to do something to it you can. Of course I'm not going to staticly use the SDef spread-physical defense can still save me sometimes.

I run Spikes/Toxic/Roost/Whirlwind. Skarmory invites a lot of unwanted opponents which is why Toxic is there. Obviously it can't Toxic a Special Attacking Dialga but it can get the rest of the cast.

I've been experimenting with a rather odd Tyranitar set: Brick Break/Toxic/Payback(Crunch??)/Flamethrower. Brick Break breaks sscreens and punishes teams that rely on them to become effective. Toxic can catch Groudons off guard...unless they have Rest/Talk. Payback is for Dark STAB, although I'm not sure if it works the same way in game, which is why I had Crunch listed there. Finally, if Forry thinks it can set up on your stuff please just liquefy it with Flamethrower. This set invites BU Dialga to come in which opens up for Skarmory to set up. It's quite fun...I'm not sure if I'm supposed to put this in peer edit form, so I just outlined some basic ideas. This Tar gave me semi-successful results-has a bit of a problem dealing direct damage but it damages things in a unique way.
 

maddog

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Since you mentioned BP teams Jibaku, I'll go ahead and talk about it a little, since I have run a BP team in Ubers pretty successfully. It is pretty safe to say that BP teams are fucking insane in Ubers. Ninjask/ Mew/ Celebi/ Vaporeon/ Scizor/ Giritiana-O is the team I use, and it is pretty frustrating for my opponent. You have mentioned how popular Specs Kyorge is, and Vaporeon is the perfect counter for it, taking Water Spouts as easy as pie. Mew is seriously the stupidest thing for BP chains, because passing Amensias and the ability to use Hypnosis makes the team really difficult to beat with pure power. However, I don't think the success of a BP team represents a metagame shift. It is a threat to look out for, but as soon as BP is popular, people will start running phazers to beat it, then popularity will take a hit, phazers will go down and the process will repeat itself. BP teams are good in Ubers because the ways people counter them in OU don't really exist in that tier.

My two cents anyway.
 

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