Research Scarlet & Violet Battle Mechanics Research

[Fragmented]

so we know from testing that psychic noise is boosted by sheer force. what about upper hand and alluring voice? i checked the move dump, but the sheer force flag there only seems to be set for moves that wouldn't otherwise be boosted by sheer force (moves like fire punch lack it, while it's set for moves like spirit shackle). alluring voice i ask about primarily because burning jealousy is sheer force-boosted, so it seems like it should be too.

Upper Hand does get the Sheer Force boost (no life orb recoil), haven't tried Alluring Voice yet but Bulbapedia says it should get boosted.

edit: Alluring Voice is also boosted by Sheer Force (no life orb recoil)

test garble, or i can't be bothered to record so here's how i tested it if anybody wants to know

Upper Hand:
Turn 1: Sheer Force Hariyama uses Upper Hand into Smeargle. Smeargle sketches Upper Hand.
Turn 2: Switch into Tinkaton.
Turn 3: Paralyze Smeargle so Yama outspeeds.
Turn 4: Switch back to Yama.
Turn 5: Use Upper Hand on the Smeargle. No life orb recoil.
(Can't see if Smeargle would have flinched or not since it would have died if it wasn't a wild Tera Smeargle.

Alluring Voice:
Turn 1: Choice Scarf Dachsbun uses Alluring Voice. Smeargle sketches Alluring Voice.
Turn 2: Switch into Sheer Force Squawkabilly.
Turn 3: Smeargle uses Alluring Voice. Squawkabilly uses Copycat, which lets it use Alluring Voice. No life orb recoil.

edit 2: just for funsies, tested Thunderclap and Meteor Beam with Sheer Force, both don't get the boost.

Sheer Force let Electro Shot skip the charging turn, or is that still restricted to Rain weather?

Sheer Force doesn't skip the charging turn, it'll still require rain.

 

[Amras Anarion]

Probably a bit useless for standard metas but does Teraform Zero (Terapagos Stellar ability) override Primal Weathers? (ie Delta Stream, Primordial Sea, Desolate Land)

From what I understand, this is a single activation ability (proc only during terastral transformation) which at that moment and only at that moment interrupts any climate invoked for a defined number of turns + resets field.

The abilities of the three Primal Legendaries have a higher precedence, because the climate depends on their presence on the battle and not on a timer of 5 or 8 turns.

For the climates naturally present from the start of the battle (which will de facto correspond to the default climate when there is no override), I don't know how it works, at least that Game Freak has coded specially for the occasion a “forced neutral weather” with a limited or unlimited duration, until another summoned climate overrides this effect. (Because in Gen 8, when an invoked climate expires, it is always the natural weather that takes over)

 

[Cycrum]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1736277143116775647

This is pretty neat, I think.

 

[Amras Anarion]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1736277143116775647

This is pretty neat, I think.

It's the normal operation of Heal Block since Gen 6: It cuts to the chase by strictly prohibiting any use of a move that can restore HP. (BTW, the best balancing for me was the operation in Gen 5: only block the HP regen but the block include heal from all items and abilities.)

 

[DarkFE]

Hi.

If Terapagos is hacked to have another Tera Type that is not Stellar, the game stalls somewhat in broken animations upon activating Tera with it, but it does seem to resolve eventually and allow continuing a battle. This is in contrast to Ogerpon, who still softlocks the game seemingly permanently if it Teras into a Type that doesn't match its Mask, as covered by Anubis previously.

so we know from testing that psychic noise is boosted by sheer force. what about upper hand and alluring voice? i checked the move dump, but the sheer force flag there only seems to be set for moves that wouldn't otherwise be boosted by sheer force (moves like fire punch lack it, while it's set for moves like spirit shackle). alluring voice i ask about primarily because burning jealousy is sheer force-boosted, so it seems like it should be too.

Fragmented beat me to these because I was testing the above Terapagos interaction, but may as well link the footage for completeness since it finished uploading already. Also have video of both activating their secondary effects without Sheer Force when targeting allies, just to avoid any possible issues with using ally attacks to test in those recordings.

Hope this helps.

 

[AztecCroc]

If Terapagos is hacked to have another Tera Type that is not Stellar, the game stalls somewhat in broken animations upon activating Tera with it, but it does seem to resolve eventually and allow continuing a battle. This is in contrast to Ogerpon, who still softlocks the game seemingly permanently if it Teras into a Type that doesn't match its Mask, as covered by Anubis previously.

Makes sense. Terapagos always changes to the same form, Ogerpon changes to a specific form based on its Teratype.
Terapagos is Terastalizing -> become Terapagos-2
Ogerpon is Terastalizing -> look up which Ogerpon form is Tera Ice -> oops, no such Pokémon -> keep looking forever

 

[DarkFE]

Hi. More testing, this time for Fickle Beam.

Does the All-Out Attack stack with crits?

If a mon had serene grace, would it become a 60% chance, or would it still be 30%. Kings rock and i believe focus band get serene grace boosts, so it could be possible.


Also what about sheer force? Would the move itself have damage increase, but no chance of the doubled power?

Fickle Beam is not boosted by Sheer Force, as indicated in this footage. It also can trigger an All-Out-Attack even when directed at a target holding a Covert Cloak.

The above already hints that the All-Out-Attack chance isn't boosted by Serene Grace in all likelihood, but I did spam it with a Serene Grace Smeargle for the remainder of the battle to check the odds while simultaneously attempting to confirm whether or not the move could achieve a Critical Hit + All-Out-Attack in combination.

Across 43 total Serene Grace Fickle Beams, only 12 were All-Out-Attacks, which is about 28%. This is not a large sample size, but combined with the previously mentioned lack of Sheer Force and Cloak suppression, it's something.

Finally, while it took loading up another battle, I did eventually confirm that Fickle Beam can simultaneously land a Critical Hit and an All-Out-Attack.

Hope this helps.

 

[Anubis]

I got a tip that you can Skill Swap Gulp Missile off of Cramorant now. I was skeptical because of prior behavior. It works, surprisingly.

I don't plan to test this or other form-changing abilities more so I'm dropping it here for interested parties.

I did a brief test where I Skill Swapped Cramorant in Gulping Form and it got stuck in that form (unable to throw Arrokuda back at me).
https://streamable.com/hqyrtm

 

[Lucidious89]

Ok I'm trying to wrap my head around the Stellar type and all of its properties, since the data on it all seems kinda scattered and the mechanics aren't particularly intuitive. So I just want to make sure I understand it all.

Tera Stellar:

• When Terastallized into the Stellar type, the Pokemon's typing remains effectively unchanged defensively.
• Offensively, the Pokemon has x1.5 STAB on all attacks that match its natural base typing, like usual.
• However, the Pokemon also gains a x1.2 STAB multiplier on attacks of any other type as well, but only once for each type. Any subsequent attacks of that type just deal normal damage. This boost is only counted as "used" when a move of that type actually lands on a target, as being negated by Protect doesn't use up the boost. (Presumably, this is also true for missing an attack?)
• For Stellar Form Terapagos in particular, this x1.2 STAB multiplier is permanent and will apply to all eligible moves for the duration of that Terastallization. This is also true for any Pokemon specifically during Tera Raid battles.
• The Adaptability ability is essentially ignored while Terastallized into the Stellar-type, and isn't factored into STAB calculations.

Tera Blast:

• When the move Tera Blast is used as a Stellar-type move, its base power is bumped up to 100 and it deals neutral damage to all types. It also receives the same one-time x1.2 STAB boost as all other move types get, effectively making it 120 BP on first use.
• Stellar Tera Blast will deal Super Effective damage on Pokemon who are Terastallized, regardless of their type.
• Stellar Tera Blast will lower the user's Attack and Sp.Atk each by 1 stage after each use, regardless if it was Super Effective or not.

Tera Starstorm:

• Tera Starstorm is an exclusive move for Terapagos that functions identically to Tera Blast. However, since Terapagos can only have the Stellar Tera type, it can only ever be Stellar (Terastallized) or Normal-type (un-Terastallized).
• Stellar Tera Starstorm doesn't get a BP boost like Stellar Tera Blast does. However, the same x1.2 STAB multiplier applies, effectively making it a 144 BP at all times, since this boost is permanent for Terapagos.
• Stellar Tera Starstorm also doesn't reduce the user's Attack and Sp.Atk stats upon use. Instead, it gains an additional effect that allows it to hit all opposing targets instead of being a single-target move.

Anything I'm mistaken about or missing?

 

[Vinc2612]

Ok I'm trying to wrap my head around the Stellar type and all of its properties, since the data on it all seems kinda scattered and the mechanics aren't particularly intuitive. So I just want to make sure I understand it all.

Tera Stellar:

• When Terastallized into the Stellar type, the Pokemon's typing remains effectively unchanged defensively.
• Offensively, the Pokemon has x1.5 STAB on all attacks that match its natural base typing, like usual.
• However, the Pokemon also gains a x1.2 STAB multiplier on attacks of any other type as well, but only once for each type. Any subsequent attacks of that type just deal normal damage. This boost is only counted as "used" when a move of that type actually lands on a target, as being negated by Protect doesn't use up the boost. (Presumably, this is also true for missing an attack?)
• For Stellar Form Terapagos in particular, this x1.2 STAB multiplier is permanent and will apply to all eligible moves for the duration of that Terastallization. This is also true for any Pokemon specifically during Tera Raid battles.
• The Adaptability ability is essentially ignored while Terastallized into the Stellar-type, and isn't factored into STAB calculations.

Tera Blast:

• When the move Tera Blast is used as a Stellar-type move, its base power is bumped up to 100 and it deals neutral damage to all types. It also receives the same one-time x1.2 STAB boost as all other move types get, effectively making it 120 BP on first use.
• Stellar Tera Blast will deal Super Effective damage on Pokemon who are Terastallized, regardless of their type.
• Stellar Tera Blast will lower the user's Attack and Sp.Atk each by 1 stage after each use, regardless if it was Super Effective or not.

Tera Starstorm:

• Tera Starstorm is an exclusive move for Terapagos that functions identically to Tera Blast. However, since Terapagos can only have the Stellar Tera type, it can only ever be Stellar (Terastallized) or Normal-type (un-Terastallized).
• Stellar Tera Starstorm doesn't get a BP boost like Stellar Tera Blast does. However, the same x1.2 STAB multiplier applies, effectively making it a 144 BP at all times, since this boost is permanent for Terapagos.
• Stellar Tera Starstorm also doesn't reduce the user's Attack and Sp.Atk stats upon use. Instead, it gains an additional effect that allows it to hit all opposing targets instead of being a single-target move.

Anything I'm mistaken about or missing?

The first hit of any "natural stab" is *2, next ones are *1.5

Those *2/*1.2 are always active in raid battles

 

[Lucidious89]

The first hit of any "natural stab" is *2, next ones are *1.5

Those *2/*1.2 are always active in raid battles

Oof, ok, I see. Idk why this is so hard to keep track of in my head.

 

[theorbofconfusion]

Question for the VGC side of things, I guess. Upper Hand, specifically. As it currently stands on Showdown, it appears that Upper Hand doesn't work on things like Prankster Tailwind from the other side. I'm not sure if that's because it isn't an attacking move, or if perhaps it wasn't activated because Prankster moves aren't typically inherently Priority. Is it possible that we could get this tested to see if Upper Hand works on Priority via Prankster, or if it works on Priority moves that aren't offensive in nature?

 

[Fragmented]

Question for the VGC side of things, I guess. Upper Hand, specifically. As it currently stands on Showdown, it appears that Upper Hand doesn't work on things like Prankster Tailwind from the other side. I'm not sure if that's because it isn't an attacking move, or if perhaps it wasn't activated because Prankster moves aren't typically inherently Priority. Is it possible that we could get this tested to see if Upper Hand works on Priority via Prankster, or if it works on Priority moves that aren't offensive in nature?

It only works on attacking priority moves. King Neodude and inspirnathan both tested it out with Prankster. Upper Hand also fails against Triage status moves like Synthesis, but not for attacking moves like Draining Kiss.

 

[AztecCroc]

It only works on attacking priority moves. King Neodude and inspirnathan both tested it out with Prankster. Upper Hand also fails against Triage status moves like Synthesis, but not for attacking moves like Draining Kiss.

Basically, Upper Hand only works on damaging moves then?

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Ok I'm trying to wrap my head around the Stellar type and all of its properties, since the data on it all seems kinda scattered and the mechanics aren't particularly intuitive. So I just want to make sure I understand it all.

Tera Stellar:

• When Terastallized into the Stellar type, the Pokemon's typing remains effectively unchanged defensively

From what I understand, when you terastalize into Stellar, you don't even visually change your typing (and we expecting this happens is half the reason everyone gets so confused about Stellar mechanics), so the better way to word it would be "terastalize into the Stellar buff".

 

[DarkFE]

Hi. More testing.

Teraform Zero cannot be Skill Swapped or copied with Doodle. This seems to differ from current simulator behavior.

I think this was already tested elsewhere, though I couldn't find it in this thread: Burning Bulwark does not Burn a Pokemon that bypasses its protection by using Mighty Cleave.

Probably a bit useless for standard metas but does Teraform Zero (Terapagos Stellar ability) override Primal Weathers? (ie Delta Stream, Primordial Sea, Desolate Land)

From what I understand, this is a single activation ability (proc only during terastral transformation) which at that moment and only at that moment interrupts any climate invoked for a defined number of turns + resets field.

The abilities of the three Primal Legendaries have a higher precedence, because the climate depends on their presence on the battle and not on a timer of 5 or 8 turns.

For the climates naturally present from the start of the battle (which will de facto correspond to the default climate when there is no override), I don't know how it works, at least that Game Freak has coded specially for the occasion a “forced neutral weather” with a limited or unlimited duration, until another summoned climate overrides this effect. (Because in Gen 8, when an invoked climate expires, it is always the natural weather that takes over)

Teraform Zero does clear the field conditions created by Primordial Sea and Delta Stream, as shown in this footage. If another Pokemon swaps into the battle with a Primal Weather ability after Teraform Zero clears conditions, it can be set again, just like how regular weather and terrain can be set again. Also, Teraform Zero cannot clear the natural snow in Montenevera Gym, which isn't necessarily competitively relevant but is mildly interesting nonetheless.

Hope this helps. Edited because I forgot to add a link in the first sentence.

 

[mertyville]

Question: I heard Stellar Tera Type doesn't change your defensive interaction. It doesn't give you resistances and weaknesses. But in this live stream in a boss battle against Terapagoz who is a Normal Type Thunder from Dragonite does Super Effective Damage. Can someone explain this?
https://www.youtube.com/live/DLMCZXmBl6E?feature=shared&t=11433

 

[doipy hooves]

Question: I heard Stellar Tera Type doesn't change your defensive interaction. It doesn't give you resistances and weaknesses. But in this live stream in a boss battle against Terapagoz who is a Normal Type Thunder from Dragonite does Super Effective Damage. Can someone explain this?
https://www.youtube.com/live/DLMCZXmBl6E?feature=shared&t=11433

The boss Terapagos changes its type midbattle after each phase to Psychic and Water with a message, but the exact type is not really conveyed other than seeing Kieran being able to hit its weakness in the last phase.

 

[BoingK]

Can teraform zero be hacked onto other mons / will it work if this is done?

 

[Lucidious89]

If you have a Stellar Form Terapagos in your last party slot and send out Zoroark, will the Illusion appear as Stellar Form Terapagos, or will the Illusion just fail to trigger? I'm actually not aware how Illusion works on Terastallized targets in general, but I'm assuming Zoroark appears as the non-Tera version of the species. But in cases where that particular form of the Pokemon Zoroark is copying can only exist while Terastallized (Ogerpon, Terapagos), how does Zoroark appear in those cases?

 

[Rarycaris]

Will Tera Starstorm that becomes Stellar type when used by Terapagos cease to be boosted by Silk Scarf?

 

[ralts_boy]

If you have a Stellar Form Terapagos in your last party slot and send out Zoroark, will the Illusion appear as Stellar Form Terapagos, or will the Illusion just fail to trigger? I'm actually not aware how Illusion works on Terastallized targets in general, but I'm assuming Zoroark appears as the non-Tera version of the species. But in cases where that particular form of the Pokemon Zoroark is copying can only exist while Terastallized (Ogerpon, Terapagos), how does Zoroark appear in those cases?

If Terapagos is in the back and has not come out, Zoroark will appear like baby Terapagos. Once Terapagos comes out, Zoroark cannot disguise as Terapagos. The same is true once Terapagos changes to Stellar forme.

 

[DarkFE]

Hi.

I re-checked the interaction between Protosynthesis and Desolate Land since my previous post about Teraform Zero clearing Primal weather conditions. Protosynthesis is still not activated by Desolate Land's sunlight.

Teraform Zero can be suppressed by Gastro Acid, although this of course does not achieve much in a battle.

Can teraform zero be hacked onto other mons / will it work if this is done?

All of Tera Shell, Teraform Zero, and Tera Shift can be hacked on to non-Terapagos Pokemon, but they will not do anything on them, even with Tera Stellar. It also doesn't work if you hack Tera Shell or Teraform Zero on to the baby form of Terapagos, even if that uses Tera Stellar.

If you have a Stellar Form Terapagos in your last party slot and send out Zoroark, will the Illusion appear as Stellar Form Terapagos, or will the Illusion just fail to trigger? I'm actually not aware how Illusion works on Terastallized targets in general, but I'm assuming Zoroark appears as the non-Tera version of the species. But in cases where that particular form of the Pokemon Zoroark is copying can only exist while Terastallized (Ogerpon, Terapagos), how does Zoroark appear in those cases?

Zoroark's Illusion fails disguise if Stellar Terapagos or Ogerpon-Mask-Tera is in your last party slot. Ralts Boy covered the Terapagos aspect better, but I thought I should still link the footage since it was already uploaded and it includes Ogerpon too.

Hope this helps.

Edit to add some extra tests that I did on request:

• Poison Puppeteer cannot activate if the user is not Pecharunt.
• Poison Puppeteer cannot activate on TSpikes even if Pecharunt sets the TSpikes itself, and even if Pecharunt Whirlwinds a foe into the TSpikes.
• Oricorio's Revelation Dance remains the original type even when it Terastallizes into Stellar. This was already checked in this thread earlier, but I was asked to double check due to a visual tooltip bug regarding the interaction currently on Showdown, so may as well post the test footage for completeness.

 

[TowelNedved]

Quick questions on Tera Stellar…

1) How does it work with Flying Press? Does it give you the one time boost for both fighting and flying coverage? Does it use up both types’ boosts at once? Is it possible to get the boost on a SE flying press against a grass type for example and then get another boost using brave bird?

2) Does clicking protect use up your normal type boost?

3) If my terastalized mon is holding weakness policy, will a tera stellar tera blast activate it?

 

[ralts_boy]

Quick questions on Tera Stellar…

1) How does it work with Flying Press? Does it give you the one time boost for both fighting and flying coverage? Does it use up both types’ boosts at once? Is it possible to get the boost on a SE flying press against a grass type for example and then get another boost using brave bird?

2) Does clicking protect use up your normal type boost?

3) If my terastalized mon is holding weakness policy, will a tera stellar tera blast activate it?

Flying Press expends Fighting tera boost only on a neutral target. I believe this is because Flying Press is a Flying move that does Flying damage.