Roserade [4P]

[Zach]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/roserade

I've been using various T-Spike teams for the past couple of months, and Roserade is my T-Spiker of choice. This is my first peer edit. Here goes...

[SET]
name: OU Lead
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Toxic Spikes
move 3: Leaf Storm
move 4: Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Fire
item: Focus Sash
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Roserade's access to both Sleep Powder as well as her decent base 90 Speed stat make her a reliable Toxic Spiking lead in the OU environment. Slower leads such as Swampert, Bronzong, and Smeargle generate most of Roserade's success, as she can fire off a Sleep Powder and set up Toxic Spikes against them. However, using Focus Sash allows Roserade to set up against speedy suicide leads such as Azelf, as she can take a hit, sleep the opposing lead, and lay down Toxic Spikes. Leaf Storm is Roserade's primary attacking option, scoring OHKO's on Swampert and Hippowdon, and Hidden Power Ground is used to hit Heatran and Metagross leads. In general, if Sleep Powder does not miss, Roserade is guaranteed to set up at least one layer of Toxic Spikes. If using Grass Knot, one should note that Roserade will be incapable of scoring a 2HKO on Azelf. Hidden Power Fire can be used to hit Forretress that want to Rapid Spin away your Toxic Spikes. Hidden Power Fire also hits Metagross and Scizor for super effective damage, although the former is likely to carry an Occa Berry and the latter will KO Roserade with Bullet Punch if her Focus Sash is no longer intact. Hidden Power Ice hits Salamence and other Dragon-type Pokémon who can come in to take a Leaf Storm, but it should be considered a lesser option because it means that Roserade does not have any way of attacking more common leads such as Heatran.</p>

<p>The 80 HP EV's ensure that Roserade will never be 2HKO'd by 252 Attack Adamant Metagross's Bullet Punch, which allows her to set up on Metagross if it is the more common Occa Berry or Shuca Berry varients. Roserade must remain weary of Lum Berry varients, however, because they will always beat her one-on-one. Otherwise, the EV's are quite simple. Speed is maximized to outrun as many leads as possible, and the remaining EV's are dumped into Special Attack.</p>

<p>It is best to pair Roserade with Pokémon that can switch in to opposing leads that beat Roserade, such as Choice Scarf Jirachi and Lum Berry Metagross. Both Skarmory and Swampert make good switches into these Pokémon, shrugging off their attacks and setting up Spikes or Stealth Rock in the meantime. Other teammates should abuse Toxic Spikes to the fullest. Substitute + Charge Beam Rotom-A, Agility SubPetaya Empoleon, and CroCune come to mind, as Toxic Spikes will render Blissey much more ineffective defensively with accumulating Toxic damage to worry about.</p>

 

[KnightoftheWind]

There's already an OU lead set in the analysis.

 

[Zach]

There's already an OU lead set in the analysis.

I know, I did a rewrite of it.

 

[Darkmalice]

Metagross rarely holds a Lum Berry. It's usually either holds Occa or Shuca Berry. If it did hold a Lum Berry, it would not use Bullet Punch first turn against Roserade; it would use Earthquake or Meteor Mash so that it guarantees itself a 2HKO against 4 HP variants (two Bullet Punches is unlikely to 2HKO 4 HP / min Roserade). There is no point in having 80 HP, especially considering that you regard Lum Berry Metagross as a counter in your Counters section.

No one will use Grass Knot if it means losing a 2HKO on Azelf, the #1 lead. Gyarados is insignificant, as it is a rare lead. Same goes for Bronzong. Your analysis seems a bit outdated.

Also, why do you refer to Metagross as he? It is genderless.

You should refer to Empoleon as SubPetaya Empoleon instead of Agility Empoleon (that's the actual name of the set).

Just leave the other analysis as it is. It doesn't need changing, and it is better written. Plus Roserade may soon be OU, in which case the current set will be revamped to remove UU references. But for the time being, the UU references stay.

 

[Zoro]

Metagross rarely holds a Lum Berry. It's usually either holds Occa or Shuca Berry.

Yeah, Occa Berry is the most popular, but Lum Berry was used on around 15%, the third most used after Occa and Leftovers. Shuca isnt even mentioned.

No one will use Grass Knot if it means losing a 2HKO on Azelf, the #1 lead. Gyarados is insignificant, as it is a rare lead. Same goes for Bronzong. Your analysis seems a bit outdated.

Bronzong was the #11 lead in August, while Gyarados was #25 ( yeah, this might be actually low ). I wouldnt call Bronzong insignificant, though.

You should refer to Empoleon as SubPetaya Empoleon instead of Agility Empoleon (that's the actual name of the set).

Although just a nitpick, smogon lists it as Agility SubPetaya.




btw,

Both Skarmory and Swampert make good switches into these Pokémon, shrugging off their attacks and setting up Spikes or Stealth Rock in the meantime.

 

[Witnessed]

My edits in bold

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/roserade

I've been using various T-Spike teams for the past couple of months, and Roserade is my T-Spiker of choice. This is my first peer edit. Here goes...

[SET]
name: OU Lead
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Toxic Spikes
move 3: Leaf Storm
move 4: Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Fire
item: Focus Sash
nature: Timid
evs: 80 HP / 176 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Roserade's access to both Sleep Powder as well as her decent base 90 Speed stat make her a reliable Toxic Spiking lead in the OU environment. Slower leads such as Swampert, Bronzong, and Gyarados generate most of Roserade's success, as she can fire off a Sleep Powder and set up Toxic Spikes against them. However, using Focus Sash allows Roserade to set up against speedy suicide leads such as Azelf, as she can take a hit, sleep the opposing lead, and lay down Toxic Spikes. Leaf Storm is Roserade's primary attacking option, scoring OHKO's on Swampert and Hippowdon, and Hidden Power Ground is used to hit Heatran and Metagross leads. In general, if Sleep Powder does not miss, Roserade is guaranteed to set up at least one layer of Toxic Spikes.(this sentence should be moved near the top of the paragraph) Grass Knot is an option over Leaf Storm if one wishes to avoid opposing Pokémon such as Gyarados from setting up on Roserade after Special Attack drops. If using Grass Knot, one should note that Roserade will be incapable of scoring a 2HKO on Azelf. Hidden Power Fire can be used to hit Forretress that want to Rapid Spin away your Toxic Spikes. Hidden Power Fire also hits Metagross and Scizor for super effective damage, although the former is likely to carry an Occa Berry and the latter will KO Roserade with Bullet Punch if her Focus Sash is no longer intact. Hidden Power Ice hits Salamence and other Dragon-type Pokémon who can come in to take a Leaf Storm, but it should be considered a lesser option because it means that Roserade does not have any way of attacking more common leads such as Heatran.</p>

<p>The 80 HP EV's ensure that Roserade will never be 2HKO'd by 252 Attack Adamant Metagross's Bullet Punch, which allows her to set up on him if he does not carry a Lum Berry. Otherwise, the EV's are quite simple. Speed is maximized to outrun as many leads as possible, and the remaining EV's are dumped into Special Attack.</p>

<p>It is best to pair Roserade with Pokémon that can switch in to opposing leads that beat Roserade, such as Choice Scarf Jirachi and Lum Berry Metagross. Both Skarmory and Swampert make good switches into these Pokémon, shrugging off their attacks and setting up Spikes or Stealth Rock in the meantime. Other teammates should abuse Toxic Spikes to the fullest. Substitute + Charge Beam Rotom-A, Agility Empoleon, and CroCune come to mind, as Toxic Spikes will render Blissey much more ineffective defensively with accumulating Toxic damage to worry about.</p>

Overall, nice write up.

 

[Zach]

Metagross rarely holds a Lum Berry. It's usually either holds Occa or Shuca Berry. If it did hold a Lum Berry, it would not use Bullet Punch first turn against Roserade; it would use Earthquake or Meteor Mash so that it guarantees itself a 2HKO against 4 HP variants (two Bullet Punches is unlikely to 2HKO 4 HP / min Roserade). There is no point in having 80 HP, especially considering that you regard Lum Berry Metagross as a counter in your Counters section.

Changed the wording in the EV's section to make it known that Lum Berry Metagross isn't as common. I still think 80 HP EV's are important to beat Shuca and Occa Berry Metas 100%, though.

No one will use Grass Knot if it means losing a 2HKO on Azelf, the #1 lead. Gyarados is insignificant, as it is a rare lead. Same goes for Bronzong. Your analysis seems a bit outdated.

Removed Grass Knot references, and changed the slower leads to more common ones. And Bronzong sits at 11, he is certainly significant though not as common as other leads.

Also, why do you refer to Metagross as he? It is genderless.

You should refer to Empoleon as SubPetaya Empoleon instead of Agility Empoleon (that's the actual name of the set).

Done and done.

My edits in bold



Overall, nice write up.

Added in your changes, thanks.

 

[Darkmalice]

Ok, I take back what I said about Bronzong being a Pokemon that you shouldn't worry about + the Shuca Berry.


If you want EV Roserade solely not be 2HKOed by Metagross' Bullet Punch, then I would put the EVs in Def instead of HP. 44 Def EVs will guarantee you survival (as opposed to 80 HP / min 's 0.07% of a 2HKO). The main advantage of using Def EVs is that you have more to place in SpA, so Leaf Storm deals more damage.

 

[Caelum]

Well, the 80 HP EVs are still mentioned in the paragraph and you are missing 252 of them in the EVs line.

I don't understand EVing it to help against Metagross period. Taking the common lead Metagross'

1 - Leftovers Metagross: You can just Sleep Powder it. Yeah, you can miss; but Bullet Punch isn't going to even 2HKO on average. I think most players, if they were planning to leave Metagross in, would just hope for the miss as they Meteor Mash and then go for the Bullet Punch.

2 - Lum Metagross: You lose, unless Meteor Mash misses which isn't something I'd enjoy risking.

3 - Occa Metagross: Same thing as Leftovers.

Furthermore, I wouldn't leave Roserade in against a lead Metagross given the relatively good chance it might be Lum Berry. Why potentially waste your Roserade turn one?

Also, I have to ask, what was wrong with the current peer edit on site? I don't see any difference really besides stylistic ones, and if you just wanted 1 or 2 new "team options" added on to paragraph you could just use the "small subjective changes" thread.

 

[Zach]

yeah, i guess i'll just take my changes to the small subjective changes thread then. requesting lock.