Rhyperior [QC:0/3]

[blinkie]

Overview
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• High base 140 attack gives it considerable power
• Its good 115 HP and 130 Defense are compromised by 55 Special Defense and a bad defensive typing giving it common weaknesses to Ground, Water, and Fighting
• Good offensive STABS and access to spread moves
• 40 base Speed makes it need heavy speed control
• Weak to some spread moves such as Earthquake and Muddy Water

Trick Room Attacker
########
name: Trick Room Attacker
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Rock Slide / Stone Edge
move 3: Ice Punch / Hammer Arm / Drill Run
move 4: Protect
ability: Lightningrod
item: Life Orb / Sitrus Berry
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
nature: Brave

Moves
========

• Earthquake is mandatory STAB that hits hard off base 140 attack, while also being a spread move
• Drill Run can be used to hit one target harder than Earthquake and it avoids Wide Guard
• Rock Slide is another spread move hitting Flying-types that comes with a helpful flinch chance assuming you are faster under Trick Room
• Ice Punch hits Landorus-T and also Grass-types like Amoonguss
• Hammer Arm can hit Mega Kangaskhan, a key threat that Rhyperior walls, and it also has the benefit of lowering Rhyperior's speed which can help against other Trick Room teams
• Stone Edge is an option to hit a single target harder than Rock Slide and work around Wide Guard
• Protect is almost mandatory on anything and it is good on Rhyperior as it easily will draw many Special attacks to itself

Set Details
========

• Maximum HP gives Rhyperior some needed mixed bulk
• Maximum Attack and a Brave nature make Rhyperior hit fast and hard under Trick Room
• Life Orb gives Rhyperior a higher damage output, for example Hammer Arm with Life Orb has a good chance to OHKO Mega Kangaskhan, at the cost of lessening its staying power
• A Lum Berry can be used to stop Rhyperior from being shut down by a stray burn
• Leftovers give Rhyperior passive recovery and this gives it another niche over Rhydon
• Lightningrod allows Rhyperior to help cover its partners from Electric-moves, but Solid Rock can be used if Rhyperior's partners don't mind Electric moves
• 0 Speed IVs should be used to make Rhyperior faster in Trick Room

Usage Tips
========

• You can use Rhyperior in Trick Room as its low speed becomes an advantage, however it is no good in semi-Trick Room
• Rhyperior can also act as a good check to most Physical attackers without a Grass- or Water-type STAB move
• Use Protect to predict around your opponent targeting Rhyperior, and it can also scout for stray Grass- or Water-type attacks
• Switching in Rhyperior next to a partner that is going to be attacked with a super effective Electric-type move can deflect the move with Lightningrod, but be aware of Discharge

Team Options
========

• Trick Room setters such as Cresselia and Aromatisse are good partners to ensure Rhyperior can "outspeed" faster Pokemon
• Water-types such as Azumarill, Jellicent, and Slowbro can benefit from Lightningrod support as it means they do not have to fear single-target Electric moves
• Partners that have problems with Kangaskhan and other physical attackers such as Reuniclus and Latios are good teammates as Rhyperior checks many physical attackers easily
• Dragon-type partners such as Mega Ampharos and Kyurem-B are good partners as they have an easy time switching in on Grass- and Water-type mvoes
• Pokemon such as Ice Beam Cresselia and Aromatisse are good partners as they can take down Intimidate users such as Landorus-T and Scrafty
• Speed safety nets such as Chandelure and Hydreigon are good partners to provide insurance if Trick Room is not up
• Ferrothorn resists Grass-, Steel-, and Water-type moves while Rhyperior can take Fire-type moves for it. Ferrothorn also takes care of Azumarill, but they share a Fighting weakness.
• Rhyperior is weak to common spread moves, so Wide Guard users such as Hitmontop are good partners, as Hitmontop can also break through Wide Guard with Feint

Other Options
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• A Damage-Reducing berry such as Rindo Berry or Passho Berry can be used to let Rhyperior tank stray Grass- or Water-type moves while bluffing Sitrus Berry, however they are too situational
• Megahorn can be used if you really want to hit Cresselia or Grass-types
• Substitute can also be used as it punishes switching and also helps Rhyperior avoid burns and Intimidate
• Focus Sash can be used to let Rhyperior live a hit it otherwise wouldn't, but it is situational and Life Orb is usually a better choice
• Assault Vest can be used to give Rhyperior some special bulk, but it still has troubles living many Water- and Grass-type moves.
• Weakness Policy can be used as Rhyperior can usually tank 2x super effective physical hits

Checks & Counters
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• **Intimidate: Pokemon such as Scrafty, Hitmontop, and Landorus-T can easily stop Rhyperior with Intimidate. However, the latter needs to be aware of Ice Punch.
• **Typing Advantage**: Grass- and Water-types such as Rotom-W, Slowbro, Breloom, and Mega Venusaur can usually beat Rhyperior with their STAB moves. Fighting- and Steel types such as Conkeldurr and Scizor can also switch in on Rock Slide and hurt Rhyperior with their STAB moves.
• **Strong Special Attackers**: Some strong Special attackers can beat Rhyperior without needing a typing advantage, such as Draco Meteor from Latios
• **Utility Moves**: Wide Guard from Pokemon such as Hitmontop and Aegislash shuts Rhyperior down, and Rhyperior also cannot do much back to them without Drill Run

 

[Haruno]

Aye preliminary QC checking

Overview
########

• Saying it has a bad defensive typing is fine, but I would mention ground/water/fighting since grass is pretty much never seen,
• Mention that it has a low base speed and needs heavy speed control to be functionable.
• Surf and blizzard are both never used, in fact the only two spread moves that come to mind that it's weak to are earthquake and the rare muddy water.

Moves
========

• I would put ice punch as a second moveslot slash alongside rock slide since they provide redundant coverage however ice punch is very effective in nailing the mons that would be able to switchin to rhyperior (grass, landoge, etc)
• Drill run is usable as a slash over earthquake.
• Megahorn is awful, put it in OO if even that since bug is absolute shit as a coverage move.
• Running stone edge + rock slide is a terrible idea, run one or the other if even that, I'd honestly put it as second moveslot as rockslide/stone edge/ice punch since they're all fairly similar in terms of coverage.
• Hammer arm is usable as a slash because it's the only move rhyperior has that can hit kangaskhan which is a key threat and one of the primary mons you'd send rhyperior in on.
• Just sum up protect as being an omnipresent move and being really good in general.

Set Details
========

• Maximum HP gives Rhyperior some needed mixed bulk
• Maximum Attack and a Brave nature make Rhyperior hit fast and hard under Trick Room
• I'd list either relevant mons that you can live with sitrus berry (sitrus berry rhyperior is just an outclassed rhydon), if anything I'd mention leftover instead of sitrus because it's the only other item that makes it not outclassed.
• Life Orb gives Rhyperior a higher damage output at the cost of lessening its staying power
• I'd put lightningrod as the primary slash and solid rock as a secondary if even that (solid rock rhyperior is just an outclassed rhydon if you're not running life orb)
• Lum is an option since it helps it against burns/sleep and helps give it a role that rhydon can't fulfill

Usage Tips
========

• Rhyperior isn't used solely for trick room because it's a catch all check to essentially every physical attacker that doesn't have a grass/water stab or are named terrakion.
• Eliminate the wide guard mention, rhyperior honestly isn't bothered by them that much.
• If you're going to mention protect, I'd mention how it's used for checking/prediction and not really for taking hits i suppose.
• I still don't think the trick room mention is needed.

Team Options
========

• Trick Room isn't mandatory for rhyperior since it's not that great as a general TR abuser and even if it was, I'd avoid using three full bulletpoints for what is essentially, use tr.
• I dislike amoongus mostly because its defensive synergy with rhyperior is trash since amoong won't help you against grass types, they share an ice weakness, though it helps somewhat with a questionable water resist + fight resist)
• Milotic is terrible.
• What does hydreigon/chandy do alongside rhyperior? I'm confused here

Other Options
########

• A Damage-Reducing berry such as Rindo Berry or Passho Berry can be used to let Rhyperior tank stray Grass- or Water-type moves while bluffing Sitrus Berry, however they are too situational
• You're not using hammer arm on rhyperior to lower its speed....... you're using it to bop kangaskhan and other crap when you can't afford to use earthquake.
• Fast rhyperior is god awful. Don't mention it.
• I'd mention substitute as an OO for being a good move in general and helps protect you from intimidate/status or whatnot.

Checks & Counters
########

• **Intimidate: Pokemon such as Scrafty, Hitmontop, and Landorus-T can easily stop Rhyperior with Intimidate. However, the latter needs to be aware of Ice Punch.
• Your three bullet points are literally just grass/water special attackers. I'd just separate it as one slash.

 

[blinkie]

Ok implemented the changes Haruno .
Also the speed safety net is kind of a TR thing, its just something that has like a speed tier that can outspeed some threats in TR, but also can be useful against somewhat slow mons outside of TR. Yeah but I think I put too much emphasis on TR so maybe I should remove it?

 

[xzern]

hi am check here, meaning i'm not qc, so don't mark this as 1/3 if you implement this

• Moves
  • Make a mention of Hammer Arm lowering Rhyperior's speed, which helps give the team an edge against other TR teams.

• Usage Tips
  • Mention that Lightningrod can work as good team support, drawing electric attacks away from allies that may be electric weak. Therefore, it can usually be a good idea to switch Rhyperior in next to an ally that may be facing an incoming supereffective electric move.
• Team Options
  • Gourgeist isnt really that common, so I wouldn't mention it. Maybe mention Aromatisse, Slowbro or Chandelure instead.
  • Water-types like Azumarill and Slowbro appreciate the occasional immunity to electric moves given by Rhyperior's Lightningrod; Azumarill can get a free turn to use Belly Drum if it is expecting an electric move to hit it and Rhyperior is on the field
  • Mention that Dragon-type allies such as Mega Ampharos and Kyurem-B can switch in on an oncoming grass or water type move and take half damage whereas Rhyperior would have taken 4x damage
  • Ferrothorn resists grass, steel, and water moves, while also being able to have Rhyperior switch in to fire type attacks for it. Ferrothorn also takes care of Azumarill, which is a bane to Rhyperiors everywhere.
• Checks & Counters
  • I would remove the mention of Virizion, it isn't exactly that common of a threat. Other grass types to be weary of include Shaymin-Sky and Mega Venusaur.

 

[blinkie]

Ok implemented

 

[Darkmalice]

Overiew
-needs Trick Room support
-weak to Intimidate

0 Spe IVs on set analysis


Ice Punch should not be slashed with with your Rock-type STAB. Dual Rock/Ground STAB coverage is too good to pass up. You also get more redundacy with EQ/Ice Punch/Hammer Arm than EQ/Ice Punch/Rock attack.


Solid Rock is sole slash. This:

I'd put lightningrod as the primary slash and solid rock as a secondary if even that (solid rock rhyperior is just an outclassed rhydon if you're not running life orb)

Is false. How does running an ability that Rhydon cannot use make it outclassed by Rhydon? You also underestimate the bulk provided with Solid Rock:

252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 175-207 (40.3 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 168-198 (40.5 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

0 SpA Amoonguss Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 342-405 (78.8 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Amoonguss Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 352-420 (85 - 101.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Bulk difference is kinda negligble when tanking super-effective hits , and that's ignoring Rhyperior's item e.g. better for Rhyperior with Sitrus.

Lightning Rod should be OO material; it's with Lightning Rod that you have a greater risk of being outclassed if using Sitrus Berry.


AC Drill Run being run over the third moveslot. EQ is really good on Rhyperior for maximising damage, where as Drill Run is still useful alongside it for avoiding hitting partner and Wide Guard. Drill Run nails Aegislash barring King's Shield, where as Stone Edge is sadly resisted by the two most common Wide Guard users. All this makes EQ + Drill Run superior than combining Rock Slide + Stone Edge.


Item slashes should be Life Orb / Sitrus Berry. Leftovers is rarely better than Sitrus, and definitely not on Rhyperior. Lum Berry is OO material, as the most common user of burn rather just use Hydro Pump.


When mentioning Hammer Arm against Mega Kang, mention that it has a 62.5% chance to OHKO with Life Orb. Of note, the Doubles OU Pokemon hit harder by Hammer Arm are Mega Kang, Ttar, Hydreigon, Ferrothorn, and Scrafty (Bisharp is OHKOed by EQ and Drill Run regardless of item choice). Mega Kang and Hydreigon need LO to be OHKOed.


Usage Tips
-not just "can" use Rhyperior in Trick Room. Mandates Trick Room, difficult to use outside due to poor speed and common weaknesses

Switching in Rhyperior next to a partner that is going to be attacked with a super effective Electric-type move can deflect the move with Lightningrod, but be aware of Discharge

Remove


OO Weakness Policy and Lum Berry


Refer to the old Rhyperior analysis for Checks and Counters. I would always recommend reading old analyses on the same Pokemon to combine your knowledge with their's.

You can also add some Team Options from there too. For starters, if you're going to mention weak to spread moves in the Overview, you must mention Wide Guard users in Team options.

 

[Bughouse]

Rhyperior does not need Trick Room, Darkmalice. It's used for its physical bulk, good power, and Lightningrod 99% of the time. It doesn't even fit on semiroom, only full TR where it is competing with things like Escavalier, that don't just auto lose to Amoonguss.

 

[Darkmalice]

Perhaps I was underselling Lightning Rod. I still feel Solid Rock > Lightning Rod. I generally find TR teams benefit more from Solid Rock as they don't really have issues with Electric-type attacks, especially TWave. Outside of TR, Lightning Rod is generally better. I do find that Rhyperior works best on TR teams (I agree it's a poor choice for semi-TR). The issue I find with Lightning Rod is that it faces competition from Rhydon as, without Solid Rock, the increase in bulk of Eviolte becomes more significant, more so than the slight increase in damage; unless you're using Life Orb of course but that means even less bulk.

Also, OO Assault Vest and Focus Sash.

 

[Bughouse]

Good, someone other than me mentioned it. I agree that for most standard purposes Rhydon > Rhyperior, but Lolk was a butt on IRC.

If Lolk will allow it, I would prefer this analysis be geared solely to being a TR attacker and a second set with Lum Berry (the one thing non-TR Rhyperior has over Rhydon). Then we can do a Rhydon analysis that covers the other more standard uses since Eviolite Rhydon > Assault Vest Rhyperior in basically every way.

 

[Lolk]

im cool with whatevs i just said it would be nice to have it playtested before we made an analysis :U

 

[Haruno]

Alright time to bash all the wrong with your post.

Overiew
-needs Trick Room support
-weak to Intimidate

Are we seriously going to say weak to intimidate for every single physical attacker (bar kanga) in every overview? That seems pretty pointless, if anything weak to intimidate belongs in OO. Not to mention that rhyperior (and pretty much all mons that aren't dedicated tr sweepers) do not necessarily mandate trick room, in addition to rhyperior being bad on semi room as srk stated.

Ice Punch should not be slashed with with your Rock-type STAB. Dual Rock/Ground STAB coverage is too good to pass up. You also get more redundacy with EQ/Ice Punch/Hammer Arm than EQ/Ice Punch/Rock attack.

You're going mostly for SE coverage in the first place which ice punch is pretty much mandatory for giving that lando-t is by far the most common/best switchin to rhyperior and being unable to touch it is a horrendous idea, not to mention that ice/rock cover the same mons (bar like bug but who really cares for that). In addition to that, rhyperior's role as a physical wall means that it must be able to deal with kanga which is probably the single reason why you'd want hammer arm since everything else is probably better dealt with by your stabs or whatnot. Rock/ice provide similar coverage hence why I brought it up.

Solid Rock is sole slash. This:
Is false. How does running an ability that Rhydon cannot use make it outclassed by Rhydon? You also underestimate the bulk provided with Solid Rock:

252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 175-207 (40.3 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 168-198 (40.5 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

0 SpA Amoonguss Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 342-405 (78.8 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Amoonguss Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 352-420 (85 - 101.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Bulk difference is kinda negligble when tanking super-effective hits , and that's ignoring Rhyperior's item e.g. better for Rhyperior with Sitrus.

Lightning Rod should be OO material; it's with Lightning Rod that you have a greater risk of being outclassed if using Sitrus Berry.

This whole segment is all sorts of wrong as well and providing false info.

With solid rock it gives rhyperior bulk on par with eviolite rhydon's as far as SE hits are concerned, however for literally everything else, its bulk is far inferior. So at that point you have a mon that takes hits on par with rhydon, but has no lightningrod and 10 more attack. This of course is mitigated by the fact that you can run an offensive item on rhyperior which will make rhyperior hit drastically harder, hence why i mentioned that if you're running LO then rhyperior isn't outclassed whereas if it runs anything else, then rhydon is better, plain and simple.

I don't see the point of the amoong calc, since you're losing to it both with or without TR. Is it some sort of way to make your post seem better? If you're running solid rock then you lose the massive utility provided by lightningrod and you're greatly underselling how valuable that is.

AC Drill Run being run over the third moveslot. EQ is really good on Rhyperior for maximising damage, where as Drill Run is still useful alongside it for avoiding hitting partner and Wide Guard. Drill Run nails Aegislash barring King's Shield, where as Stone Edge is sadly resisted by the two most common Wide Guard users. All this makes EQ + Drill Run superior than combining Rock Slide + Stone Edge.

If anything drill run should be a slash for eq, but the idea you're proposing eq/rock move/drill run/protect is fucking terrible in practice and on paper, and saying nails aegis barring kings shield (wtf) is not a justifiable reason for running it with redundant coverage.

Item slashes should be Life Orb / Sitrus Berry. Leftovers is rarely better than Sitrus, and definitely not on Rhyperior. Lum Berry is OO material, as the most common user of burn rather just use Hydro Pump.

Leftovers is more than likely better than sitrus on bulky pivots in doubles so I wouldn't just disregard it as an option especially when the chances are high that rhyhperior will likely be out for 4+ turns via switching/protects or whatnot.

Usage Tips
-not just "can" use Rhyperior in Trick Room. Mandates Trick Room, difficult to use outside due to poor speed and common weaknesses

Remove


OO Weakness Policy and Lum Berry

Already discussed how TR is not mandatory. I'd remove this if I were you. Poor speed isn't a problem for rhyperior.

OO WP is perfectly acceptable on mons that can realistically take a super effective hit and retaliate. Lum is admittedly bad though.

 

[blinkie]

Imma do what srk1214 suggested and change the analysis into 2 sets with 1 for TR and 1 for Lum
although don't have time now so gonna do it later

 

[Darkmalice]

blinkie is dropping this analysis; this write-up is free to take over this if you wish

[EDIT] Moving this