Flamethrower is better than Fire Blast, it OHKOes Aegilslash 100% of the time in the sun and is 100% accurate. There is no gain from Fire Blast over Flamethrower.
Flamethrower is better than Fire Blast, it OHKOes Aegilslash 100% of the time in the sun and is 100% accurate. There is no gain from Fire Blast over Flamethrower.
No gain? Um... 110 BP as compared to 90 BP? Fire Blast is better for wall breaking the likes of Cresselia, Xerneas, and others. Flamethrower can be used as a more accurate option, but in my opinion Fire Blast is better.Flamethrower is better than Fire Blast, it OHKOes Aegilslash 100% of the time in the sun and is 100% accurate. There is no gain from Fire Blast over Flamethrower.
If you're looking to wallbreak Overheat is better lolNo gain? Um... 110 BP as compared to 90 BP? Fire Blast is better for wall breaking the likes of Cresselia, Xerneas, and others. Flamethrower can be used as a more accurate option, but in my opinion Fire Blast is better.
like flamethrower might still be better than fire blast but this is a really odd way to go about conclusively proving it. You need at least a tad more than this?The only reason to use a Fire STAB is Aegislash because Ground STAB hits everything else in existence and you'd never want more power against any other target
I too like to set up Substitutes and then cut my own Special Attack. And if you didn't see that his set was Substitute, maybe you should've looked at the entire conversation before butting in ?If you're looking to wallbreak Overheat is better lol
Yeah pretty sure you didn't look at his setderivatives said:Also who is Overheating a +2 Xerneas in the first place? You should be hitting it with Precipice Blades.
Yeah, luckily the mere presence of a Primal Groudon renders your partner impervious to Thunder Wave and Icy Wind, makes the usage of Trick Room impossible, and stops Moonlight from working, who knew? (And yes, Fire Blast doesn't 2HKO if he clicks moonlight the first time, but the 2HKO means your partner can protect once and not have to worry, assuming you outspeed Cress which i would try to do)252+ SpA Primal Groudon Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cresselia in Harsh Sunshine: 84-100 (37 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Primal Groudon Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cresselia in Harsh Sunshine: 103-123 (45.3 - 54.1%) -- 44.5% chance to 2HKO
not much of difference considering cresselia can do nothing to P-Groundon.
After Overheat Special Attack drops, it'll still be a 3HKO or more. Don't Overheat a boosted Xern lol.If you're looking to wallbreak Overheat is better lol
0 SpA Primal Groudon Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 100+ SpD Cresselia in Harsh Sunshine: 73-87 (32.1 - 38.3%) -- 95.7% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Primal Groudon Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 100+ SpD Cresselia in Harsh Sunshine: 88-105 (38.7 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Primal Groudon Overheat vs. 252 HP / 100+ SpD Cresselia in Harsh Sunshine: 106-126 (46.6 - 55.5%) -- 68.8% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Primal Groudon Flamethrower vs. +2 184 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas in Harsh Sunshine: 57-67 (25.4 - 29.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 SpA Primal Groudon Fire Blast vs. +2 184 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas in Harsh Sunshine: 67-81 (29.9 - 36.1%) -- 40% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Primal Groudon Overheat vs. +2 184 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas in Harsh Sunshine: 81-96 (36.1 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Not to mention additional chip damage on those mons would make Overheat pretty much better for completely wallbreaking things than Fire Blast, and Flamethrower gets pretty much the same KOs as Fire Blast, and when it really does matter there's always damage from switch-ins and partners. Plus Cresselia can be such a big momentum suck that you really won't care to wallbreak it.
Also who is Overheating a +2 Xerneas in the first place? You should be hitting it with Precipice Blades.
Looking back at his set I do realize this.i don't know this tier but i gotta say these are a pair of excellent posts, like
like flamethrower might still be better than fire blast but this is a really odd way to go about conclusively proving it. You need at least a tad more than this?
I too like to set up Substitutes and then cut my own Special Attack. And if you didn't see that his set was Substitute, maybe you should've looked at the entire conversation before butting in ?
Yeah pretty sure you didn't look at his set
and ninja'd a bit so let's look at the next rock solid post:
Yeah, luckily the mere presence of a Primal Groudon renders your partner impervious to Thunder Wave and Icy Wind, makes the usage of Trick Room impossible, and stops Moonlight from working, who knew? (And yes, Fire Blast doesn't 2HKO if he clicks moonlight the first time, but the 2HKO means your partner can protect once and not have to worry, assuming you outspeed Cress which i would try to do)
Xerneas doesn't care that much either way, but keep in mind that again you do have a partner so the extra damage might come in handy. Still, against xerneas in particular Flamethrower is a solid option.
I agree with Dialga, though for the others I'm not so convinced. Giratina-O gets rekt by Xerneas, one of the most popular (if not the most popular) mons in the meta. Solely because of that, I don't think its A- material. On top of that, however, it isn't particularly powerful without a Calm Mind boost, and who runs Shadow Force lol. The same can be said about Yveltal. I don't have extensive experience using these mons, however. This is just my pitch.Both Mewtwos from A- to B
I have yet to see anyone use either Mewtwo successfully. They are both relatively frail and use a mega spot, where it faces stiff competition.
Dialga, Giratina-O, and Yveltal from B to A-
Dialga is arguably the best TR setter. Cress is great, but doesn't have have the offensive ability. Dialga can 2ko Groudon with earth power, which is huge. It needs a little support, but so does everything that's not Groudon or Xerneas. It's better than all the other B tier pokemon (other than the next two I talk about).
Giratina-O is the only hard counter to Primal Groudon. It has tailwind, icy wind, gravity, and will-o-wisp for support. It's pretty darn bulky. It can hit all sorts of stuff hard with Shadow Force, or it can go special with calm mind. I've been playing with it and love it so far. It does lose to Xerneas, but most things do 1v1. It can survive a hit from an unboosted Xerneas, set up TR, and then use shadow force to break protect next turn, allowing a teammate to KO it. Most things lose to Geo-boosted Xerneas, that can't be held against it. Ev'd right, it beats Rayquaza as well.
I've heard good things about Yveltal. Swagger helps it a lot, but isn't required. It's generally powerful enough to put a dent in a lot of the common threats in the meta. I haven't used this one, but I've heard good enough things about it to believe that it deserves to be higher than stuff like Mewtwo.
uh, almost everyone? It's a free feint as welland who runs Shadow Force lol.
Shadow Force lifts the protection effect of Protect, Wide Guard, King's Shield and friends ...like Feint does (without having to use Feint).What Derivatives said. Maybe instead of picking out a fragment of what I said provide a counter argument. Also, what's "a free feint"?
Because I didn't disagree with the rest of your post.Maybe instead of picking out a fragment of what I said provide a counter argument.
I can't speak for Mewtwo-Y, I just haven't actually seen anyone run it. I figured it isn't common enough to be ranked that high.I agree with Dialga, though for the others I'm not so convinced. Giratina-O gets rekt by Xerneas, one of the most popular (if not the most popular) mons in the meta. Solely because of that, I don't think its A- material. On top of that, however, it isn't particularly powerful without a Calm Mind boost, and who runs Shadow Force lol. The same can be said about Yveltal. I don't have extensive experience using these mons, however. This is just my pitch.
EDIT: idk about Mega Mewtwo Y, its p good. Mega Mewtwo X should probably drop to B- or lower.
This sounds like a good idea. Although, I do like the idea of having 2 separate lists because you can only choose a maximum 2 of the Ubers and would essentially have to choose the other 4 from the other list.I think in the future, this thread should be merged with the other mons thread to become the vgc 2016 viability rankings. In the future. Like January the first