Poliwrath

[Forsety]

I think this generation Poliwrath has alot going for it except one thing being hes pretty damn screwed whenever the Ghost jellyfish shows up, which will be almost...every match? Payback just doesn't have the damage to hurt it alot, even if you Encored its Boiling Water.

What he does have going for him though as many have mentioned is his great defenses and newfound phazing abilties. However I have another thought, why can't priority Poliwrath be an option? With access to Cheer Up, Hydro Pump, Ice Beam and Vacuum Wave it could make a pretty decent set. Given yes it'd be walled by the jellyfish but I don't think you'd have any option other than to switch in any situation.

 

[NeoSeth]

For the love of God, it has BELLY DRUM SWIFT SWIM. If there's much of a hype with Doryuuzu and his Swords Dance, I can't see how Poliwrath doesn't get as much attention.

*Makes a team*

Consider this drum *Sunglasses* beaten.






So basically I'm totally testing that. YEAH.

 

[Corrupted]

If you do run Belly Drum Swift swim, for the love of god, please run immunities for fighting / water. Ditto is rape

 

[min min]

Umm... yeah. But it's still a coin toss regardless, and Unaware Quagsire walls the set too.

 

[Farewell]

Poliwrath: @ Leftovers
252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant

Encore
Belly Drum
Waterfall
Rock Slide

 

[NeoSeth]

Poliwrath: @ Leftovers
252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant

Encore
Belly Drum
Waterfall
Rock Slide

I would always run Brick Break over Encore, since Nattorei is so common and you NEED to be able to break through it with something. It's a huge enemy to Rain teams, so don't take away Poliwrath's boon of being one of the few Rain sweepers who can actually beat Nattorei once set-up.

 

[(makeup)]

In ubers, rain is running around everywhere. I think he can pull off a bellydrum with Wobbufetts help. It works really well. The stupid part is Swift Swim is illegal with Ice Punch...

 

[NeoSeth]

If you run Belly Drum Swift Swim, run Burungeru (The Ghost Jellyfish). It's immune to your STABS, which Ditto will be spamming. That is all.

 

[alphatron]

Here's the poliwrath set I run

Poliwrath @ leftovers
Trait: Swift Swim
40 Hp/252 def/216 speed
Jolly nature

Belly Drum
Waterfall
Brick Break
Encore

The key here is survivability. In the rain, the wrath hits 506 speed, which is enough to outspeed max speed deoxys-s. Timid/Jolly scarfed base 100 pokemon are out of your speed range, so there is no reason to max speed. The max defense allows belly drum to become much easier to set up. With this EV spread, wrath tanks 252 Jolly Doryuzzu's Earthqauke AFTER using belly drum. Losing less than half your life after a STAB base 100 attack from a pokemon with base 135 is enough to warrant the defensive spread if you ask me. You aren't running any attack EVs but who cares? You're maximizing your attack ala belly drum. Putting 252 EVs into your attack is just overkill.

After a belly drum, this set handles almost all common threats. Nattorei is OHKO'd. Every single non uber offensive dragon not named dragonite is KO'd. Mence and bulky gyara(!!!) die to your +5 boosted attacks. The other intimidate pokemon aren't living through waterfall or Brick break. Skarm and Blissey also fall. 252/252 bold suicune is 2HKO'd by Brick Break with or without rocks. This thing is just amazing. Leftovers means that you aren't just a suicide pokemon and poliwrath will be able to sweep both mid game and late game (although you'll still want to wait until late game to dispose of theats). You're resistant to Scizor's u-turn and bullet punch and you aren't 2HKO'd by bullet punch either when factoring in belly drum. Encore is filler, but can be quite useful against bulk up roobushins and other pokes who wish to set up against you.

Deliberately, this set loses to burungeru. Why? So that ditto can't switch in on you and tear you limb from limb. Unless you want to live in fear of that thing switching in on you and gaining your +6 boosts, swift swim, and scarfed attacks, carry burungeru or pay the price.

Things to watch out for are every last mischievous heart pokemon in the game. Sableye will-o-wisps. Murkrow uses confuse ray or haze. Erufuun uses Stun spore(or if you're me, worry seed for a guarenteed end of sweep). The electric genie, illumise, and volbeat also carry thunder wave. Thanks to sashes and sturdy pokes, this set absolutely needs rocks up to live. Red card is no friend of yours either. I haven't done calcs for parasect or toxicroak. But if people haven't realized how dangerous lanturn is to most rain teams, they won't carry toxicroak either.

 

[sax king]

I hate to bump dead threads, but I'd like to explore Poliwrath's defensive capabilities a little more. Not only does Poliwrath have great defensive stats, but it also has a great phazing move and a reliable way to beat rain. Bulk up is great on Poliwrath, especially in the rain.

Can someone write up a good defensive phazer set for poliwrath?

 

[PlatinumDude]

I hate to bump dead threads, but I'd like to explore Poliwrath's defensive capabilities a little more. Not only does Poliwrath have great defensive stats, but it also has a great phazing move and a reliable way to beat rain. Bulk up is great on Poliwrath, especially in the rain.

Can someone write up a good defensive phazer set for poliwrath?

There are some defensive phazer sets in the first page.

 

[min min]

Ooh, DW Poliwrath has already been released, while DW Ditto doesn't exist.

 

[SlimMan]

I've used Belly Drum Poliwrath in Standard ever since it was released. Here's my set:
Poliwrath@Leftovers
4 HP/252 Atk/ 252 Speed; Jolly nature
Belly Drum
Waterfall
Brick Break
Rock Slide

I run the first two moves because Poliwrath really needs to be be able to OHKO most threats after Belly Drum, and STAB is the best way to do it. Rock Slide is there so that it won't be completely walled by Skymin/Gyarados/Burungeru.

I run Jolly because it gives you 524 speed, which outspeeds Scarfed base 108 pokemon (at 519). This is significant due to the recent increase in Scarf Terakion (lolwut?).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The deal with Poliwrath is that it can rape everything in sight, but is incredibly difficult to set up. It enjoys free turns such as those provided by Breloom and Wobbuffet.

lost my train of thought.......

 

[elchupo]

Ok, has anyone actually tested a proper MixWrath set? The idea is very intriguing to me.

Firstly, most of its moves on the special side are higher BP and give him better coverage. Granted, its SpA is quite low, but the higher BP helps mitigate this somewhat. Plus, with a method to boost both Atk and SpA, it's not that bad.

On the special side it also has access to dual 120BP STAB's in the form of Hydro Pump and Focus Blast. Yes, the acc. sucks, but if anyone was really worried about hitting hard, Wide Lens could go quite a way to remedy this. Its useful also to remember that on the physical side the best 'Wrath has to muster is 80/75 for Waterfall and Brick Break (Focus Punch, while awesome on 'Wrath, isn't seen that often).
It also has access to STAB priority in the form of Vacuum Wave, which would be awesome after a few Cheer Ups.

The only problem I have is deciding what STAB should be Atk/SpA. I figured Surf and Brick Break? Also, can anyone suggest a good EV spread since I REALLY like Poliwrath's bulkiness, so it would be nice to water that down as little as possible.

 

[Garganator]

The key here is survivability. In the rain, the wrath hits 506 speed, which is enough to outspeed max speed deoxys-s. Timid/Jolly scarfed base 100 pokemon are out of your speed range, so there is no reason to max speed.

Sry, this sentence doesn't make sence. To outspeed Jolly Max Speed Deoxys-S with Choice Scarf Pokemon, this Pokemon must have... at least 105 base speed and positive nature like Mismagius to be able to outspeed +Speed Deoxys-S. So if you outspeed Deoxys-S, you outspeed slower stuff obviously too ;). You also outspeed Choice Scarf Garchomp, which is another great news here. Otherwise good set, but coverage which water/fighting provides (even in rain) is a bit bad, especially if opponent still have weather changing Pokemon or good Cloud Nine user (it's really rare, but Cloud Nine Altaria also check this Poliwrath nicely and her typing and nice special bulk gives her nice niche in checking some weather attackers).

I hate to bump dead threads, but I'd like to explore Poliwrath's defensive capabilities a little more. Not only does Poliwrath have great defensive stats, but it also has a great phazing move and a reliable way to beat rain. Bulk up is great on Poliwrath, especially in the rain.

While I agree Poliwrath has really good defensive typing and statistics, but Poliwrath faces few problems. For first - it can't threaten most of stuff too seriously with his mediocre 85 base attack. Just to say it 0 Atk EVs Poliwrath has no chance to OHKO 4xWeak 4 HP Tyranitar with Brick Break, which is just sad (or Max HP one, I'll check calcs later). Another thing, which you could check really well Gyarados can be 2OHKOed only by Rock Slide, but... with Choice Band and Max Atk and this is when we count SR (I mean Bulky DDDos, against offensive one you don't need SR). And honestly... I see nothing else it checks really well. Doryuuzu beats it with +2 Earthquake, Randorosu do the same, STAB Outrages from most dragons are too strong for him and you don't have enough power to threaten other bulky waters to make it viable check against them. And I seriously don't think you can handle Hihidaruma, when something like mighty Suicune have huge problem doing. And I'm sure you may find better checks/counter against mentioned here Pokemon. And if I would look for Bulk Up user, I still prefer Roopushin or Zuruzukin (I know, Swift Swim + Bulk Up is interesting niche for it making it unique enough, but I prefer to use more offensive and threatening stuff on Rain Dance teams, but that's me like SD Kabutops and it's not hard to phaze this Poliwrath even when it has +1 bonus from mediocre 85 base attack).

 

[voodoo pimp]

Sry, this sentence doesn't make sence. To outspeed Jolly Max Speed Deoxys-S with Choice Scarf Pokemon, this Pokemon must have... at least 105 base speed and positive nature like Mismagius to be able to outspeed +Speed Deoxys-S.

Swift Swim isn't Choice Scarf, though.

 

[masterful]

I don't see why you would ever use this over, say, Shell Smash Oma or Cloyster

 

[breh]

I don't see why you would ever use this over, say, Shell Smash Oma or Cloyster

Different typing
Belly Drum
Encore (I guess)

that's about the extent of it. But Belly Drum is certainly cool if you eliminate priority users.

 

[Cshadow]

Better typing, Fighting STAB, Phazing, Encore, and Belly Drum all come to mind.

 

[Fluffy Otters]

I don't see why you would ever use this over, say, Shell Smash Oma or Cloyster

You mean Gorebyss, Huntail, or Cloyster. But Poliwrath does have the ability to Belly Drum, Bulk Up, Encore, Hypnosis (horrid accuracy ugh) if it hits...

Belly Drum especially.

I think when running a Belly Drum set, you should also run Sub and Sub is just a generally useful move. It keeps Ditto from copying you if you're behind it (haha sucker), the few things that are faster than Poliwrath in Rain from getting a clear shot, Dragonite from phazing you out with Dragon Tail since it does barely manage to survive even +6 Waterfall in Rain (although the chance of Flinch hax could pop in and allow a free 2 hit ko anyways in rain), Mischievious Heart users from statusing you (although it can get Encored by Erufuun), if they sacrifice something to switch weather and make Poliwrath slow again, you'll safely eat their sacrifice and another thing as they kill your sub and they still need something strong enough to finish you off, etc.

 

[Garganator]

Swift Swim isn't Choice Scarf, though.

I meant that if you outspeed Deoxys-S, then you outspeed Choice Scarf +100 Speed Pokemon too, while he said that you can't outspeed Positive 100's, which isn't true. Just this.

If only Poliwrath could resist fighting priority and E-Speed, but thanks to Swift Swim you don't need to lower your hp into 25% to activate Salac Berry, as you're fast enough (however if something will change weather, you're pretty much screwed by anything faster). I'll try Belly Drumming set in rain though as it's interesting.

Ok, I also checked calculations with 0 Atk Poliwrath vs 4 HP Tyranitar:

77.19% -> 91.23%

In other words there's only 20.51% chance to OHKO this Tyranitar with SR up while using Brick Break. Against 252 HP one there's no chance to do it without critical hit.

 

[alphatron]

Yeah, I messed up with the numbers in that post, and did the clalcs with base 110 max speed pokemon. Those guys will always outspeed you. And that 1 speed difference really sucks when scarf latios/latias comes in to rain all over your parade. Admittedly, you can run 244 speed EVs with a jolly nature to outrun scarfed base 108 pokes.

Poliwrath should really be setting up once you're certain your opponent can't change the weather anymore. This should also mean that you should get rid of MH users. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who uses sunny day erufuun or rain dance tornelos. And you're correct about a 0 attack poliwrath failing to ohko tyranitar at all times. However, aside from thunderbolt (which they never carry), what is scarftar going to do to you? You're aiming to belly drum, so the damage calcs with poliwrath should be done at +6. Max HP/Def T-tar is destroyed by the brick break after this.

When not playing in dreamworld, I guess encore can be dropped for rock slide. However, I find encore essential to setting up with poliwrath in the first place.

 

[Lazarus]

I was noticing that Poliwrath resists the Typings of the Weather leads that are common nowadays.

Rock/Dark -> Tyranitar
Water/Ice -> Politoed + Ice Beam
Fire -> Ninetales

Poliwrath (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SDef / 184 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Bulk Up
- Focus Punch
- Dive

Perhaps, just enough speed to outrun Jolly TTar? Dive is for STAB, while avoiding Sand Stream damage. The first problem that comes to mind is Politoed or Ninetales using Hypnosis. Maybe pair it with a Magic Bounce Xatu, who can rebound that Hypnosis while resisting the Grass and Psychic Poliwrath is weak to? But then again, I don't know how well Xatu's defenses will hold up. Also, they're both weak to Electric.

Not to mention this Poliwrath can't touch the common Jellicent.

 

[Daenym]

Dive?
That wouldn't evade SS damage, and would only invite people to switch in Ferrothorn and Jellicent.

Focus Punch?
You're not going to be catching many Ttars on the switch.

Bulk Up and Substitute I can't really argue with too much. But I feel like all of that defensive investment means that you're not going to be hitting too hard without a couple of Bulk Ups.

Not to mention that Ninetales is just going to switch out to Venasaur, who is ready to own this.

 

[Lazarus]

Dive?
That wouldn't evade SS damage

Well I took this to mean that it does evade SS damage
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Dive
as well as this
http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/dive

But I guess the mechanics are all different now.