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Please don't be fooled into thinking Magnezone is actually a good partner. Overlapping weakness to ground and a lot of scizor carry superpower just to kill mag on the switch. Think of a better teammate like Volcarona, who likes a clear field, and can set up a quiver dance if they swap into scizor.
Protect+3 or Rp both work well. I have no experience with CM. Don't run hp fire on non-RP sets, as you speed tie and ohko Gengar and the Lati twins. Good mega overall, but sad that p.def rotom-w can revenge you even at 70%.
Overlapping weaknesses are not a huge problem to offensive cores -- defensive synergy is less important than taking out each other's checks and counters. Magnezone is still a good teammate and you don't have to switch directly into Scizor: you can have another mon with U-turn or force Scizor to revenge kill something giving you the free switch. Volcarona and Diancie also have an overlapping weakness but that doesn't make them bad partners
I agree that Volcarona is an awesome teammate, and so is Talonflame. Less because of clear field (I mean yeah, but Diancie isn't like Sableye in that respect since it gets bopped a lot more easily) and more because of the offensive synergy imo.
Overlapping weaknesses are not a huge problem to offensive cores -- defensive synergy is less important than taking out each other's checks and counters. Magnezone is still a good teammate and you don't have to switch directly into Scizor: you can have another mon with U-turn or force Scizor to revenge kill something giving you the free switch. Volcarona and Diancie also have an overlapping weakness but that doesn't make them bad partners.
The problem with Magnezone is that it tends to be more deadweight or easily exploited as a teammate unlike Volcarona, who gains momentum from the core pairing, due to being choice locked and subsequently provide set-up opportunities for the opposing team (think MGyara). In practice as well it is much harder to trap Scizor with Magnezone since many users from experience, at least good ones, tend to double switch often - leaving you at the disadvantage. Rather than Scizor I find it more effective at dealing with Ferrothorn.
That aside I have more success using MDiancie in a core of Rotom-W/Talonflame/MDiancie, using protect while the other two Volt-turn. As MDiancie tends to lure attacks that generally can be dealt with by Rotom-W or Talonflame and from there proceed to gain momentum against the opposing team and continue to apply pressure through out.
Well I'm not going to argue that Magnezone is a better partner for Diancie than Volcarona or Talonflame because I don't think it is. However Magnezone pretty much has one niche and that's trapping and eliminating steel types. Diancie is walled/checked primarily by steels so the offensive synergy works. Yeah it's better for Ferrothorn, agreed (was using Scizor as the example since that's the one that given by the person I quoted).
Honestly I agree with your points but I still think Magnezone works fairly well as a partner even if it is overhyped/overused as one.
Also your core sounds good, Diancie definitely enjoys volt-turn teammates and those 2 have some resists/immunities that pair well.
I'm considering pairing Diancie with a Magma Storm Heatran to wear down fatter stuff + it beats most of Diancie's checks with fire stab. Anyone done this / have thoughts on that?
I don't get why people think Magnezone is useless if there aren't any Steels for it to trap on the opposing team. You still have a Pokemon with Base 130 Special Attack with 2 decent STABS to abuse, and if you're running Scarf you can check or revenge kill some threats like Keldeo (assuming it isn't Scarfed and locked into Secret Sword, and even then it only has a 25% chance to OHKO you) and Thundurus.
I don't get why people think Magnezone is useless if there aren't any Steels for it to trap on the opposing team. You still have a Pokemon with Base 130 Special Attack with 2 decent STABS to abuse, and if you're running Scarf you can check or revenge kill some threats like Keldeo (assuming it isn't Scarfed and locked into Secret Sword, and even then it only has a 25% chance to OHKO you) and Thundurus.
It is not a very fast scarfer is one issue in using it, since it will lose to other scarvers and can't revenge kill set-up sweepers due to its speed, aside from the fact that the bigger issue as pointed out is that it compounds weaknesses it doesn't make it very easy for your team to switch one or the other in (having one mon that is hard to switch in is hard enough but two...). There is also the issue that one of its main STAB has a common immunity, courtesy of Lando-T being all over the place, and the other can be exploited by water types, Rotom-W or Keldeo, who both can wreak havoc. Magnezone can be rather unwieldy because of the momentum that you stand to lose, it can be rather risky.
Honestly speaking I don't find dealing with the steel types to be all that difficult, that I find myself drawn into using a catch all answer. Yes it is an easy, albeit lazy, answer but it is not as if dealing with the steels are all that problematic, Diancie already deals with Heatran and Bisharp while Ferrothorn takes too much punishment through out the course of the match and Scizor is only problematic if it is the Bulky Roost version or Mega version the choice and LO variants are easy enough to wear down. If anything I find the overreaction to steels a bit too much, they are a problem but there is enough answers available without constraining your team synergy.
One thing that pairs excellently with diancie, though it's already been mentioned, is talonflame. The ability to come in on ferrothorn and scizor and simultaneously threaten roost (if it took rocks damage), SD and flare blitz is a fantastic thing to have with diancie around. It helps that diancie stops most heatran variants cold, even preventing hazards from them.
Volcarona I can't really advocate, since it has a 4x weakness to sr but unlike talonflame, is taken out by common priority (ajet and brave bird), has to forgo roost if it wants to beat water types like azumarill, and has a very mediocre speed tier if it doesn't quiver dance.I could see it being done, but it would need heavy team support - as volcarona usually does.
Magnezone is a bit of a lazy man's solution, yes, but it's fairly obvious to see why it works.
Stepping out of the diancie + ferrothorn counter mold for a bit, I want to mention hp fire starmie as a possible pairing with diancie. It gives a water resist and a way to get rid of hazards - let's face it, diancie isn't that bulky and really suffers from being worn down by hazards. Most importantly, it gives you a ferrothorn lure that is also incredibly useful outside of luring ferrothorn. This could be combined with other things like talonflame to make a neat offensive core too.
Special mention goes to custap skarmory, because spikes + rocks + diancie is incredibly good, and diancie forces out mega sableye leads.
One thing I'd like to see is more variety in diancie sets. I've pretty much only ever seen the protect + 3 attacks set, and I don't think I've ever seen someone run diancie with more than minimal attack investment. Not much actually switches into diamond storm, and the usual special walls (celebi clefable chansey etc) are given more problems when diancie's attack is bumped up a bit. Other things I rarely see are rock polish sets, calm mind sets and hp fire sets. The former two I'm not entirely sold on, but hp fire can make a very decent ferrothorn lure, albeit at the cost of not being able to speed tie and not having a way to safely mega against faster threats.
Overall I see diancie as a fairly versatile threat, but because of just how amazing the standard set is, I don't think its potential is going to be explored much.
One thing I'd like to see is more variety in diancie sets. I've pretty much only ever seen the protect + 3 attacks set, and I don't think I've ever seen someone run diancie with more than minimal attack investment. Not much actually switches into diamond storm, and the usual special walls (celebi clefable chansey etc) are given more problems when diancie's attack is bumped up a bit.
I have tried running more than the minimal, actually I currently run 40 Atk EVs to better bop MVenus while having enough SpA to easily remove Gliscor/Lando-T/Rotom-W in the 60% range while hitting slightly harder with Diamond Storm. Aside that I find the only sponge I want to hit hardest, Chansey, is difficult to 2HKO even with substantial investment and SR but if you are interested in hitting that number the minimal you need is 156 Atk EVs.
156 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 238-282 (37 - 43.9%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
However, I still prefer more SpA than Atk in so much that my team tends to be rather composed heavily of physical attackers, so I need MDiancie to cover that. It is much rarer to find a hard hitting special attacker than physical one, plus they aren't affected by Intimidate. It tends to be more reliable to just stick to SpA.
Rather than worrying about hitting the sponges hard I'd be more concerned about team composition as to whether you lean more on the special or physical side, and adjust MDiancie's EVs to fit the gap.
Sort of adding on to what Machi said attack investment on Diancie is catching on because stuff like Chansey, Clefable, and Mega Venusaur start to become less solid switch ins and under normal circumstances these would generally be safe. I think people are sort of missing the point that its versatility is more or less conveyed through team composition more than just itself. For example a cool lure set I've been running along side partners such as Tailwind Volcraona, Tailwind LO Scizor, and Starmie is Rock Polish Diancie but with HP Ice to make Specially Defensive Gliscors and Scarf Lando-Ts a liability for them to go up against M-Diancie. I always had issues of M-Diancie just succumbing to Earthquake simply cause they were at a high enough health range to tank a Moonblast which I found HP Ice to be nice for handling these a bit more easily. Also HP Fire is more or less becoming more common than Earth Power since the targets of Earth Power generally have answers to them that work well with M-Diancie, such as Volcarona and Starmie, while HP Fire makes Scizor a risky switch-in.
I beg you: Don't be one of those noobs that doesn't protect V Skarmory leads. Some run Iron Head just for Diancie, don't be fooled.
Other than that, MDiancie is a pretty great mon to have on HO, due to it being able to keep hazards off the field. It pairs great with T-Flame/Volcarona due to this.
Base Stats: 108 HP / 170 Atk / 115 Def / 120 SpA / 95 SpD / 92 Spe
Ability: Sand Force
Alright, this week's victim will be Mega Garchomp (suggested by Recreant!) and base Garchomp (thank you bolts!). Mega Garchomp has fantastic mixed attacking stats, and a great offensive typing. It is often overlooked due to the fact that it loses it's good speed tier by mega evolving. However, Mega Garchomp should definitely not be overlooked. It is seen on sand teams as a mega wallbreaker, as Sand Force increases the power of Earthquake. It also has access to many moves such as Swords Dance, Fire Blast to get around Steel-types, and Stone Edge. However, ORAS brought many new megas, so the competition for the mega slot has been fiercer. Mega Garchomp's base 92 speed also doesn't help, and this is why it is rarely seen in OU these days. Garchomp on the other hand is much more common. It can run an SD + Lum Berry set allowing it to sweep teams with ease. However, it's Choice Scarf set lost some viability, and so did it's Focus Sash set, due to Mega Sableye. Garchomp is still an effective Stealth Rock setter because of it's offensive presence. Let's discuss!
Sand team. Nuff said. Also how about a naive nature with 252 att/108 hp/ and rest on speed. I feel like a bulky mega chomp is what it should be. As of moves, earthquake, fire blast, draco meteor and stone edge.
Team mates should be scarfed t-tar, talon flame, Unaware clef able as a cleric and to shut down set ups, balloon escadrill with sand rush, and sp defensive rotom wash.
i would put d-claw/draco/outrage >iron head tbh, since eq 2hkos all fairies iirc, so iron head isn't really needed. Mixed Mega chomp is chomp's best set imo, however, opportunity cost is a real problem when normal chomp is sort of superior. something like 16 atk, 240 satk, 252 speed naive isn't it? Did i mess up the evs .___.
EQ and Draco are two solid STAB moves, while Fire Blast can lure in steel-types such as Ferro and Skarmory. Stone Edge hits Flying-types such as togekiss that would otherwise wall you. You can go more physically based with outrage / d claw over draco meteor - both are fine options. SD Mega garchomp is also super scary in sand, although it's base 92 speed makes setting up kind of hard, as it usually has to take a hit before setting up.
I would be interested to see someone run a bulky Mega Garchomp. Normal Garchomp already has great bulk and its mega form was blessed with even better defenses. I kinda think the bulk would be nicer than speed since his speed tier is eh anyway. Besides, Mega Chomp should have sand support anyway and sand + bulk = wearing other shit down better. Although I don't think it should have no speed investment, I'm just not really sure what an EV spread would look like.
I've never used Mega Chomp so feel free to tell me if this idea is nuts
I think I've found the perfect bulky mega garchomp.
Alright you won't be taking a lot of sp attacks very good, but physically you can. Try having the moves earthquake, Draco meteor, stone edge, and fire blast. Vested tyranitar will be your best friend.
I played on pokebattle and there was this one guy who made the perfect Mega Garchomp set. I really don't remember the EVs besides it is not what The hound of dooms set
I do remeber a few things
It had impish nature
No attack EVs
Rest talk + Equake & Dragon tail
Avoided 2HKO by Talonflame
248 HP
Alright I actually used a team with the mega garchomp I listed and I think it's pretty good. Even avoided getting knocked out by a mega metagross at around 50% and one shot it back.
Alright I actually used a team with the mega garchomp I listed and I think it's pretty good. Even avoided getting knocked out by a mega metagross at around 50% and one shot it back.
As far as sets i don't think there's anything to argue about except the various merits of stone edge vs iron head vs poison jab. (in order of decreasing usefulness)
So the million dollar question, is Mega Garchomp + TTar + Excadrill viable or does it compound too many shared weaknesses?
Obviously you can build around and get some ice/water/ground resistances but on paper does the core have any glaring flaws?
Gliscor, lando, hippo, mamoswine, scizor, sableye, keldeo, azumarill, politoed, and swampert seem like the main nemeses. If you were to build a team around the pure sand core, what teammates would be in order?
I think slowbro/alomomola + tangrowth/amoongus + scarftran could make a well rounded complementary core.
M-Garchomp is a very underrated wall breaker in this meta.Sadly,the rise in usage of fairies has seen any chance of it rising in usage being dented severely.
The best set that M-Garchomp can run arguably is a Mixed Set.Fire Blast destroys Ferrothorn while EQ,Stone Edge and Dragon Claw are great physical moves that get boosted in the Sand w/ two of them being STABs as well.
The speed drop hurts it tho.I'd imagine seeing M-Garchomp in Ubers if it'd received a speed buff but it wasn't meant to be :[
I have a few replays of a Sand team that I made,I'll be posting a few of them soon.
M-Garchomp is a very underrated wall breaker in this meta.Sadly,the rise in usage of fairies has seen any chance of it rising in usage being dented severely.
The best set that M-Garchomp can run arguably is a Mixed Set.Fire Blast destroys Ferrothorn while EQ,Stone Edge and Dragon Claw are great physical moves that get boosted in the Sand w/ two of them being STABs as well.
The speed drop hurts it tho.I'd imagine seeing M-Garchomp in Ubers if it'd received a speed buff but it wasn't meant to be :[
I have a few replays of a Sand team that I made,I'll be posting a few of them soon.
I don't think Mega Garchomp has a place on Sand teams. It's way to difficult to support Excadrill, Tyranitar and Mega Garchomp with only three pokemon. You're often left to struggle against a plethora of playstyles. However, Mega Garchomp has a place as a bulky pivot on Balance, that's how it was used on multiple Pokebattle teams I saw. It's amazing bulk and power let it switch out easily and there really is a perfect EV spread which allows it to stomach hits from a huge variety of pokemon.
Alright, I've been meaning to rant about Mega Garchomp SOMEWHERE, but I've never really gotten the chance. This'll be a long post since I have a lot to say, so put in some music or something if you don't want to get really bored.
Simply put, Mega Garchomp is a vastly underrated threat in OU right now. When people look at Mega Garchomp, what do they usually notice first? The Speed drop and opportunity cost right? Alright. First of all. Mega Garchomp is not meant to be a sweeper. There are Pokemon that do this job better. Mega Garchomp is supposed to be a terrifying wall breaker for Sand teams. Mega Garchomp has plenty of Speed for the role it preforms. It outspeeds all relevant walls. By the way, Clefable does not wall it, expecially under Sand. For Unaware Clefable, it 2HKOs without Sand with a small bit of prior damage while avoiding the OHKO from Moonblast in return, and under Sand, well let's just say, no prior damage is needed. For Magic Guard, +2 Earthquake obliterates it.
4+ Atk Sand Force Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable in Sand: 216-255 (54.8 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
4+ Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 166-196 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4+ Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Clefable: 201-237 (51 - 60.1%) -- 88.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 4+ Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Clefable: 400-472 (101.5 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
People often compare Garchomp to Kyurem-B. Yes, there is a little bit to compare here, but Kyurem has a god-awful typing, a weakness to Stealth Rocks, misses out on Swords Dance, and doesn't have Fire Blast or Earthquake (it has Earth Power, but it isn't STAB and doesn't come off of its Attack stat.) Garchomp sadly takes up your Mega Slot, but I think the advantages it has over Kyurem well warrant its use.
Garchomp is literally walled by nothing. Clefable? Earthquake 2HKOs. Ferrothorn? Skarmory? Fire Blast exists. Gliscor? Draco Meteor. Yes, it has counters / checks depending on the specific set it's running, but you'll usually have to lose a Pokemon to find out which set it is.
People also look over the huge boost in bulk it gains upon Mega Evolving. I mean, it has no recovery, but it still takes hits pretty well for a wall breaker.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Garchomp: 312-367 (87.3 - 102.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 189-223 (52.9 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 318-374 (89 - 104.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 157-186 (43.9 - 52.1%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO
Tl;dr: Mega Garchomp is not a sweeper. It's a wall breaker and doesn't need the Speed. Yes, it uses up your Mega Slot, but it has huge advantages over other Pokemon that give you a real reason to use it.
I will add more to this post later.
Also lol at Jernmax's post because
+2 4+ Atk Sand Force Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Altaria in Sand: 331-390 (93.5 - 110.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Garchomp outspeeds bulky Alt, and if it comes in on a Swords Dance, it's screwed.
Alright, I've been meaning to rant about Mega Garchomp SOMEWHERE, but I've never really gotten the chance. This'll be a long post since I have a lot to say, so put in some music or something if you don't want to get really bored.
Simply put, Mega Garchomp is a vastly underrated threat in OU right now. When people look at Mega Garchomp, what do they usually notice first? The Speed drop and opportunity cost right? Alright. First of all. Mega Garchomp is not meant to be a sweeper. There are Pokemon that do this job better. Mega Garchomp is supposed to be a terrifying wall breaker for Sand teams. Mega Garchomp has plenty of Speed for the role it preforms. It outspeeds all relevant walls. By the way, Clefable does not wall it, expecially under Sand. For Unaware Clefable, it 2HKOs without Sand with a small bit of prior damage while avoiding the OHKO from Moonblast in return, and under Sand, well let's just say, no prior damage is needed. For Magic Guard, +2 Earthquake obliterates it.
4+ Atk Sand Force Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable in Sand: 216-255 (54.8 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
4+ Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 166-196 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4+ Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Clefable: 201-237 (51 - 60.1%) -- 88.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 4+ Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Clefable: 400-472 (101.5 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
People often compare Garchomp to Kyurem-B. Yes, there is a little bit to compare here, but Kyurem has a god-awful typing, a weakness to Stealth Rocks, misses out on Swords Dance, and doesn't have Fire Blast or Earthquake (it has Earth Power, but it isn't STAB and doesn't come off of its Attack stat.) Garchomp sadly takes up your Mega Slot, but I think the advantages it has over Kyurem well warrant its use.
Garchomp is literally walled by nothing. Clefable? Earthquake 2HKOs. Ferrothorn? Skarmory? Fire Blast exists. Gliscor? Draco Meteor. People also look over the huge boost in bulk it gains upon Mega Evolving. I mean, it has no recovery, but it still takes hits pretty well for a wall breaker.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Garchomp: 312-367 (87.3 - 102.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 189-223 (52.9 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 318-374 (89 - 104.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 157-186 (43.9 - 52.1%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO
Tl;dr: Mega Garchomp is not a sweeper. It's a wall breaker and doesn't need the Speed. Yes, it uses up your Mega Slot, but it has huge advantages over other Pokemon that give you a real reason to use it.
