Please RMT: Goodstuffs!

[Valkart]

Hello Smogon. Long time already passed that I did my last RMT, for a tournament similiar to VGC10. After that I was on a long hiatus of playing Pokémon, and now that I'm back I want to go to VGC12. This metagame is a new world to me, now that every gen Pokémon can be used it just blew me out xD. I saw some videos, read a lot of stuff and testing some things in PO and I just noticed that I'm really bad using weather teams and trick room ones, so I decided to use goodstuffs, for their variety and being able to handle multiple scenarios.

This isn't an official VGC event, it's a local tournament with VGC12 rules but instead of using 4 pokemon on battle, we have to use the whole team! I won't be expecting more than 25-30 people there, so please that in consideration.

With this brief introduction I start my team:

Volcarona (F) @ Bug Gem
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
- Heat Wave
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance
- Protect

From being the last member, now is the lead with Top, doing the TopMoth combo (Thanks to Lucifer's suggestions). Great speed, STAB Heat Wave and Flame body to induce status (very vital in a 6v6 double battle) and I've tested Quiver Dance over Rage Powder with Hitmontop as leads and it performed very well against most leading pokemon and Latios also.

Hitmontop (M) @ Fight Gem
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Sucker Punch
- Wide Guard

A bulky type of Hitmontop as a lead, just to make sure to survive longer and try to kill anything. The advantage of this rule of using all six Pokémon in battle is that I can use switch Hitmontop for a counter Pokémon to re-use Fake Out later. Close Combat and a Fight gem to make sure that it can damage anything that can counter Zapdos or Volcarona. Sucker Punch to do some damage to Cresselia and Latios, very common in this format. Wide Guard is there to protect when I reuse this Pokémon, against Rock Slide, Surf, Heat Wave and Earthquake mostly.

Zapdos @ Charti Berry
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 140 HP / 252 SAtk / 116 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Tailwind
- Detect

Just an standard Zapdos but with Tailwind instead HP Ice because Gastrodon and Cresselia has Ice Beam, so I think they are better checks than Zapdos against a dragon (unless a Draco Meteor Latios comes in) and I can improve my team's speed for a few turns.

Cresselia (F) @ Sitrus Berry
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 84 SAtk / 160 SDef / 12 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Thunder Wave
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Helping Hand

Before she was the lead and now she's more supporter. Now that I have Tailwind with Zapdos, I dropped Icy Wind for Ice Beam to keep damaging things that don't resist it. Thunderwave to troll most fast pokemon and Helping Hand to try to so KOs quicker and Psychic for STAB and counter most fighting pokémon. Thanks to NathanTea for this suggestion.

Tyranitar (F) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Rock Slide
- Low Kick
- Crunch
- Protect

As Nathan suggested, I just happened to have this Tyranitar on my SS game so I transferred it. Her main purpose is to do some weather control (Surprising Rain Teams is priceless), Focus Sash to ensure a survival at least 1 turn and Crunch for a STAB damage on things like Chandelure and Jellicent.

Gastrodon (F) @ Rindo Berry
Trait: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Protect

I decided to pick Gastrodon thanks to a suggestion made by NathanTea, but with the Smogon's database variant. I focused on special defense to handle HP Grass or an Energy Ball by Chandelure, which can defeat Gastrodon if is physical defender. Scald as a STAB and do status. Ice Beam to go against dragons, Earth Power to opposing Tyranitar, fighting and some steel Pokémon. Her ability is awesome, I can switch her in if I predict a water move against Volcarona and Tyranitar.


Most of my team are genderless or female, just to prevent an Attract Cresselia. Seems that I'm lacking on a revenge killer, I was thinking of Scizor, Tornadus or Thundurus, and even replacing Close Combat for Mach Punch on Hitmontop. What do you guys think?

Please, don't be rude towards me or my thread, almost two years have passed since my last RMT so if I need to modify my thread, please let me know and sorry for the grammar mistakes that I've made. I know that most pokemon here are overused in this VGC but I did a lot of effort thinking about which ones should I use. Any suggestions on movesets, Pokemon will be gladly appreciated and tested on PO, so I can post a result and further modifications on the team if it needs to. Thanks in advance.

 

[DeepSpeed]

Since Cresselia is holding a Lum berry, have you considered Rest on it? Instead of Helping Hand perhaps.

 

[Ignitrua]

First of all, I have to say, I'm really pleased I'm not the only one running that Volcarona set in '12!

I would strongly recommend revising that Cresselia set - you're giving up a whole slot to beat Trick Room when it's not that difficult to play around it. My favourite Cress set is:

Cresselia @ Chesto Berry
Bold: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
-Icy Wind
-Thunder Wave
-Helping Hand/Psychic
-Rest
...and for a good reason. Icy Wind is such a boss move, such as is the ability to slow down both opponents in one swift blow. Icy Wind can also help remedy your problem against Latios and Garchomp, both of which are common and both of which look like they could prove a threat.
One last thing I could say and that is to modify Rotom's set - I can anticipate a hard fight with Gastrodon against your team, which can easily be solved with HP Grass. While this opens you up a bit to Metagross and Scizor, you already have Volcarona for them, but if that isn't enough, you could always try Water Gem, which smacks Scizor silly for an OHKO and deals around about 80% to Metagross.

 

[Lucifers Pride]

Icy Wind does like 12% to Latios and other common Dragons. It does like 30% to Garchomp only because of 4x weakness, and remember, Yache is almost always used. If you feel your team has a problem with Dragons, try using Ice Beam on Cresselia, and moving those 60 Def EVs to SpA to deal some damage. I would suggest using Ice Beam over Helping Hand or something.

Personally, I would use a Modest Nature on Volcarona as it boosts is SpA to insane levels after it uses a Quiver. I assume that you lead TopMoth often.

Other than that I don't see much that your team really has problems with. Good luck!

 

[Ravix]

I respectfully disagree with Lucifer, Icy wind is used to lower speed not kill things. To replace it with Ice beam would be counter productive.

This looks like a pretty standard skarmbliss special, I would change rage powder to quiver dance for some noob stomping fun.

Other than that, this is a proven and effective team. It should perform well in the circumstance that you're in.

If at all possible, I would try and figure out a general meta for your event so that you can adapt your team to possible things that you might be facing. Preparing for everything often leaves you vulnerable to a lot of something specific.

 

[Chinese Dood]

I just want to comment on using "HP Fire to do damage on things like Metagross, Scizor and even Ludicolo"... It's really just Scizor.

HP Fire is 70 x 2 = 140 base power against Metagross. Thunderbolt is 95 x 1.5 = 142 base Power and does not care about potential Occa berry. Hydro Pump is even 120 x 1.5 = 180, but of course less accurate. For Ludicolo you'd use Thunderbolt which is 142 base power compared to HP Fire's 70.

However, maybe you meant Abomasnow, which, together with Scizor and Ferrothorn, are probably the only three pokemon you'll see at VGC that you'd use HP Fire on (possibly Parasect? But fairly unlikely).

Flamebody isn't extremely likely to be activated, given that the two most common moves hitting Volcarona would probably be Surf or Rockslide (neither of which are contact moves). There is the decently common Acrobatics though.

I do agree with the others that you can free up Trick Room on Cresselia. With a few Protects and possibly good strategic switches (or maybe even get a few lucky breaks from full paralyses), Trick Room isn't too difficult to play around. If you want, you can use a Modest Volcarona and have it hold Bug Gem to OHKO psychic Trick Roomers before they can set up trick room (probably leading with Hitmontop and Volcarona, faking out their fake outer or Rage Powder pokemon while Volcarona OHKOs the trick roomer). Of course, there's still ghost trick roomers and Porygon 2 (hitmontop can fake out or Close combat, but not both on the same turn), but can't have everything.

 

[Lucifers Pride]

I like to use Trick Room on Cresselia with a Lum Berry because if they get TR up and they have an Amoonguss, (and TR user + Amoonguss is raising in popularity lately) you can still reverse the TR and then smash the Amoonguss. But Cresselia is a weird Pokemon and there is no one best set for it. I would play around with multiple sets and see which moves and such work best for you and the team.

 

[Ignitrua]

If it's to fight Amoonguss, simply have Safeguard. I wouldn't recommend it all that much.

I still stand by my advice to use Icy Wind, many of your mons, particularly Zapdos and Garchomp, have many checks that exist as checks purely because of their speed (eg Lati@s). Icy Wind also gets past Safeguard (which I see sometimes on Lati@s).

Also, to comment on Volca, Rage Powder has its uses, being able to draw away stuff like Fake Out from the common Hitmontop and Hariyama. I wouldn't say Quiver Dance is worthless though, as you definitely have the team support to run said set.

 

[Valkart]

Thanks a lot guys for the suggestions! I made some changes and the team performance improved up a bit. Seems that I'm lacking on priority attacks, so I can't so revenge killings, should I use one or go already with this team? I'm breeding Rotom atm

 

[Lucifers Pride]

I'm sure you might not want to give up on a Pokemon on the team, but if you want some more Priority I would suggest using Scizor.

Scizor @ Occa Berry
Adamant nature
Ability: Technician
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD (or put some EVs from HP to speed.)
Bug Bite
Bullet Punch
Feint
Protect

Scizor checks Cresselia and common Psychics (Latios) to no avail. Scizor easily takes a Draco Meteor, seldom use HP Fire anymore, and smashes them with Bug Bite. Bullet Punch lets you 2HKO common stuff like TTar and Abomasnow while giving you the Priority you wanted. Feint is amazing. Feint has +2 Priority, above Bullet Punch and other moves of that nature, makes the opponents Protect useless, and is boosted by Technician. It doesn't really get much better than that.

IIRC, 172 Spe EVs lets you outspeed standard Cress and 172 SpD lets you live non-Fire Gem boosted Heat Wave from Modest Chandelure, with 252 HP. The only would that should really be considered is running some speed. Scizor puts a lot of offensive pressure on the opponent T1 with its resistance and neutral coverage, but that's just me.

If there is any Pokemon that Scizor could replace, it would be Garchomp. You said Chomp helps you with Sand and Rain teams well, Scizor is immune to Sand damage, priority hurts TTar and Excadrill, Bug Bite OHKOs Ludicolo, and rain only makes Scizor better by lowering its Fire-type weaknesses.

 

[Ravix]

I would replace volcarona for Scizor personally, as well as use another set.

Scizor @ Bug gem
Adamant nature
Ability: Technician
Rest in HP / 252 Atk / (Enough Spd ev's to outspeed metagross/maybe cress)
Bug Bite
Bullet Punch
Swords Dance
Protect

Bug gem bug bite nets a ohko on a lot of stuff (Lati twins) as well as doing a HUGE chunk of damage to anything that doesn't resist it. I've never found Occa Berry to be useful enough to run.

 

[Lucifers Pride]

Is this team for Nationals? Because then SD Scizor should replace Volcarona because TopMoth is noob kill, and a lot less noobs will be attending Nationals.

I've always felt that the chance of a random HP Fire on a Pokemon is too great of a risk to not run Occa, or even Heat Wave from Zapdos and other things that aren't STAB. Of course the decision is Pixel's, especially as to what which Pokemon Scizor could replace.

 

[Valkart]

The tournament is at locals, not official because in my country there's no such support as countries like Spain or US, but the rules are like VGC12 but with 6 Pokemon battling. I was also thinking of replacing Volcarona because Garchomp gives more coverage and can outspeed many things without using moves like Agility or Quiver Dance (in Volcarona's case). I don't have time anymore to do more tests, so I'll give it a shot with Scizor instead Volcarona, but, I don't know if keep Garchomp or put in Latios with Tailwind.

 

[Lucifers Pride]

If it's local and not for anything too major I would really keep Volcarona. TopMoth 4-0s so many people, and can even get the edge on more experienced players. Hitmontop means Volcarona gets off the Quiver almost always and then you just run through the opponents team with its STAB moves.

 

[Valkart]

If it's local and not for anything too major I would really keep Volcarona. TopMoth 4-0s so many people, and can even get the edge on more experienced players. Hitmontop means Volcarona gets off the Quiver almost always and then you just run through the opponents team with its STAB moves.

Yeah, there will be like around 15 - 30 tops. I've bred already the 4 pokemon. Now I'm going to catch Zapdos and I guess I'll need to get Cresselia on the trade threads because I won't reach her in time on my new Platinum cart. Thanks a lot.

 

[NathanTea]

Hello Pixel, first I'd like to say that you have a nice team that makes good use of some fairly standard Pokemon. Here are some suggestions I'd like to offer you that might help you further improve your team.

Cresselia is a great poke to use on any goodstuffs team and it's chestorest set is even better, but personally I feel that Cresselia already has excellent bulk naturally and it doesn't need massive ammounts of EVs dumped into defenses. I use a set that's similar to Muffinhead's cresselia where SpA EVs are used to get crucial 2HKOs on common pokes.

Here's the set:

Hide

Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry
Calm
252 HP / 84 SpA / 160 SpD / 12 Speed
Thunder Wave
Psychic
Ice Beam
Helping Hand / Light Screen

With this set you can get 2HKOs on opposing hitmontops. I noticed that you also do not run a poke that carries Ice Beam, Icy Wind is slowing both your opponents pokes or slowing switchins, but Ice Beam allows you to play offensively with Cresselia against ice weak pokes like garchomp taking some of the pressure off of Cresselia's teammates. Helping Hand / Light Screen are awesome support moves to have that can either boost your teams defenses or offensive moves depending on your preference since you have a move slot open now after dropping chestorest.

Zapdos is an great choice for almost any team, boasting frightening offensive moves with it's stab Thunderbolt while remaining quite bulky even without defensive investments. I prefer using an Electric Gem over charti berry allowing it kill off more threats and deal more damage to those who aren't weak to Thunderbolt. I would also suggest replacing tailwind with either hidden power or detect. Hidden Power if you choose to drop Icy Wind on Cresselia or detect if you feel you're good at keeping your Zapdos safe. Tailwind would allow you to outpace those pokes unaffected by Thunder Wave.

Rotom is another great poke to use that only has one weakness, a bunch of resistances including an immunity to ground, and 2 very powerful stab attacks, but you're already using Zapdos and 2 electric pokes is a bit redundant. I know there are still many players who carry both because they are sometimes used for different situations, but I feel that your team does not NEED both. If you do keep it though I suggest moving 68 EVS from HP into SpD, this will allow Rotom to NOT be OHKO by common grass attacks. Also since you might choose to use sitrus berry Cresselia, I suggest using a Water Gem over the Sitrus Berry to boost it's powerful Hydro Pump which can OHKO a lot of things. Another thing you might consider if you choose to drop Hidden Power Ice on Zapdos, you could drop Hidden Power Grass on Rotom for Ice. You would be walled by Gastro, but hitmontop can KO Gastro with helping hand close combat from Hitmontop or a bug buzz from Volcarona.

Speaking of Volcarona I highly suggest switching it's nature to Modest. With Modest and Bug Gem you can OHKO Cresselia (I think) and with Quiver Dance or Tailwind up you won't be missing that speed too much, especially if the enemy team is paralyzed.

I used to use Garchomp a lot, but I slowly stopped using him because he fails to OHKO so many things. He dies to ice beams and gets outpaced by Latios and in my experience (which isn't anything worth talking about) has been more of a liability than an asset. I also noticed that you have no form of weather control, having checks to various weather conditions is nice, but having a way to change the weather in your favor is even better. Personally I would drop Garchomp and use Tyranitar in his place.

Here's the set:

Hide

Tyranitar @ focus sash
Adamant / Brave
252 HP / 252 Atk
Crunch
Rock Slide
Low Kick
Protect

Tyranitar would give you a form of weather control, a stab rock slide user, a dark move that would be helpful against common psychics and ghosts.

Since you would be losing your ground poke and electric immunity another thing I would suggest is possibly dropping Rotom for Gastrodon. Which would allow you to keep your electric immunity and rain counter bar Ludicolo. Gastrodon also has access to a stab ground move in the form of Earth Power which could compensate for the loss of earthquake in a way. You could also utilize Gastrodon's stab scald, which has a high chance to burn annoying physical attackers. Another thing to note is that gastrodon has access to Ice Beam or even Icy wind which would allow you to drop Hidden Power Ice on Zapdos for Tailwind since you'd have either another utility ice attack or Ice Beam for offense. And Gastrodon gets a SpD boost from the sand if you choose to pick up Tyranitar.

Here's the set:

Hide

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Calm
252 HP / 156 Def / 80 SpD (I think this is what I use because I don't know a good defensive spread for Gastrodon)
Scald
Ice Beam / Icy Wind
Earth Power / Toxic
Recover

Hitmontop is fine, maybe if you'd prefer you could speed creep and use something like 20-36 speed EVs to outspeed other tops for a faster fake out.

Hope I was able to help! Good luck!

 

[Valkart]

Wow! That's amazing! The tournament is next saturday and I have a job, so I don't know if I can rng and train the entire team before that day (my rnging skills suck xD), but I'll give it a shot tonight. I didn't noticed that Gastrodon could help in some ways. I already have a Modest Volcarona and Hitmontop, so I need to worry only to get 3 pokemon and Cress by gift haha!

What about priority attackers? Should I use one at least? Thanks a lot for your suggestions and taking your time helping me.

 

[Valkart]

Bump! I made some changes to my team. I'm still lacking on a revenge killer, I was thinking of Scizor, Tornadus, Metagross or Thundurus, and even replacing Close Combat for Mach Punch on Hitmontop. What do you guys think? Thanks in advance.

 

[Lucifers Pride]

I would suggest Metagross if you really wanted to switch something out for Hitmontop. He does tremendous damage to TTar and Abomasnow, KOs opposing Hitmontops, 2HKOs Latios with MM and Bullet Punch, and a bunch of stuff. Here's a basic set:

Metagross @ Shuca Berry
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD (You can put some in speed if you want)
Adamant nature
Ability: Clear Body
-Meteor Mash (Or Iron Head if you hate missing)
-Bullet Punch
-Zen Headbutt
-Protect

IMO, the only real reason to use Metagross is to KO Hitmontop without even having to consider it a threat. Meteor Mash smacks common pokes (TTar, Abomasnow, Latios) and Bullet Punch is good for cleaning up. Zen Headbutt 2HKOs Volcarona and KOs Hitmontop and most other fighting-types.

 

[Valkart]

Thank you. So Metagross instead Scizor? Is reasonable, for Scizor's weakness in an OU Heat Wave and Metagross' bulkiness. If I have time, I'll do some tests later.